Thief Doesn't needs BUFFS

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:deadeye is not even the biggest problem, wvw is crawling with daredevils right now. That spec is so braindead to play everyone is jumping on that bandwagon...

I'm in T1/T2 NA and I see more core Thieves than Daredevils. Roaming used to be almost exclusively Thieves, Mesmers, and Rangers. Right now I actually see Holosmith the most while roaming, followed closely by SoulBeast. Daredevil is pretty rare, even Reaper sees more play during T1/2 (5PM-10PM PST) in roaming.

Holo has been a problem for a while in small-scale WvW.

It's dealing between 50% to 2x more damage per skill than it does in sPvP because they only ever nerfed it in sPvP. And endurance food breaks heat loss on-dodge as well, letting it camp PF for way longer than it should.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Ferus.3165 said:deadeye is not even the biggest problem, wvw is crawling with daredevils right now. That spec is so braindead to play everyone is jumping on that bandwagon...

I'm in T1/T2 NA and I see more core Thieves than Daredevils. Roaming used to be almost exclusively Thieves, Mesmers, and Rangers. Right now I actually see Holosmith the most while roaming, followed closely by SoulBeast. Daredevil is pretty rare, even Reaper sees more play during T1/2 (5PM-10PM PST) in roaming.

Holo has been a problem for a while in small-scale WvW.

It's dealing between 50% to 2x more damage per skill than it does in sPvP because they only ever nerfed it in sPvP. And endurance food breaks heat loss on-dodge as well, letting it camp PF for way longer than it should.

Not only that, Holos are walls made of diamonds.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:If anything needs changing it's stealth on dodge. Deal with that and everything else just sorts itself out.

I agree, and I think the trait should be changed to

stealth on weapon swap

- with a 8s cooldown to give incentive to use Runes of the Warrior perhaps? With things like Energy Sigil and Energy Regen Food coupled with SA meld with shadows, stealth on dodge creates extremely non-interactive gameplay. (though I'm all for removing energy sigil and endurance regen food anyway).

putting it on a cooldown system.. we had that already can be done but why would you put it on weapon swap? i mean with the ini system the weapon swap for thief is devalued, putting the stealth here will just kick it out of use for most parts because people wont swap just for the stealth, that would be super clunky.tho hey weapon swap at least works while CCed :3

I don't think it should be as accessible as it is right now as

uninterruptible

stealth access. At least with smoke fields and leaps there are windows of opportunity to:A.) Interrupt the smoke fieldB.) Interrupt the leapC.) Stand in the smoke field and either deny further stacks (or at least deny 1 or 2 depending on how fast the DE can re position) or get the DE to reveal himself.

The current ease of stealth access is far overtuned and can stand to be shaved, perma stealth backstab was fun to play for a while, now it's just boring and non-engaging - this was especially true after I made a build with all Valkyrie and Hidden Killer. I only swap to it now when I encounter those super insecure condi or hybrid Mirages who also trait reflect on dodge, or when there are no 1v1's to be found anywhere on any BL.but weaponswap is like one of the least denyable things in the game so its even stronger than on dodge. and i think it costing endurance is good, but the way endurance is spent for stealth doesnt have to be a dodge that is uninterruptable. thats why i made the above suggestion :3

Weaponswap can't be spammed

spamming is only usefull for stacking. but the only importan uninterruptable stealth is the one on entering stealth. after that it doesnt matter and we got enough sources then.with weapon swap basically however you engage the deadeye he can stealth anyway. and i personally dont need to restealth more than 1 against most in a 1 vs 1 if at all.

We shouldn't base balance on the play style of one player. Limiting the ability to

stack

stealth outside of initiative use would alleviate a large portion of frustrations that people have when playing against us. If you wouldn't notice this change much on your play style, then why try to dissuade the suggestion? :3

pretty simple as then people will complain even more.i want deadeyes to use endurance over ini for stealth because endurance is a defensive resource while ini is mostly offensive. if we are less a threat offensive that might slow the fights down but that wont make it less frustrating. we are frustrating because we can simply enter stealth under pressure, how long we stay there or how is not as important for the opponent as just a little stealth is enough to get out of their reach or even ooc.if we use our endurance however for stealth (not with a dodge, but a skill to convert energy into stealth) then we are easier to pin down when we attack and we still have our ini up wich means we are more likely to attack. if i am in stealth and have stacked some, i obviously wont come out ini starved i will wait the full duration as at the end i will have my ini back. yet i might attack without a dodge ready now, betting on that i dont need one till it is up. i think deadeye is supposed to be an offensive, aggressive spec so energy for stealth over ini for stealth any day.with stealth on weapon swap, what is your opponent going to do, to get his hands on ya? i mean you open from stealth on them, wich usually already fills your malice up. then when they counter pressure just weapon swap wich as said works pretty much under any condition -> execute. dodge can at least be prevented with CC and while standing with immob.and why do you think my suggestion is not good? i mean you could intterupt then any stealth access of a deadeye , aside from maybe blinding powder that is difficult. or is it just that you want ontop of stealth your dodges to evade attacks ? :3

Being tied to endurance is not a strong argument right now, at least not in WvW where we have +90% endurance regen. This means that one dodge, 4seconds of stealth, is available just about every 5 seconds. Not much of a defensive trade-off, is it? :3

yes you can permastealth with just endurance, if you really use all of it just for stealth wich means you will have pretty much none to actually evade attacks. i think thats fine. better than perma stealth + 1 dodge every 5 seconds to cover your reveal time that ends with an nearly uncounterable stealth access

It already

is

nearly uncounterable stealth access, though. That is why I suggested a change to how stealth is gained. Immobilize isn't much of a counter since we have withdraw, which is uninterruptible on its own. I know my suggestion isn't the best, but our frequent access to stealth without needing to use any offensive resource is a huge problem.

IMO an ideal balance patch would change the %damage increase on Malicious Backstab (maybe bleeding and cripple?) and rework Silent Scope to move the stealth elsewhere. Perhaps Death's Retreat?

i know it IS already nearly uncounterable tho more than your suggestion and with my suggestion you could even interrupt it!without the damage on malicious backstab i dont think i would use it unless i need it for stealth. but as said earlier in other threads i would like malicious backstab to have a tell tied to it preferably visual + audio so you can react to it like to DJ but to then give a reason to use it over DJ, maybe making malicious backstab easier to use like a little inbuild gap closer, because as DE we lack steal and like 99% of the cases i see core/DD use backstab thats with steal, sometimes with another teleport but rarely walking up.

Or... They could just buff the skills that reveals stealthed people, and give a few more professions access to that mechanic.

In my experience when people do have access to it and complain about it. Its often because they dont take the skill or trait. And why would they? Either they follow thr meta so hard they don't adjust to the situation. Or the skills and associated traits aren't worth a pitchure of urine.

This is a much better alternative than frustrating thief mains by changing the stealth mechanics under their noses. Hell even a miniscule and worthless number adjustment will be enough to remind players that they do have those utilities and traits. And they should probably use them.

Sure one argument is shadow meld. But its an elite and is designed to be pretty powerful. Right now, most DEs still have very little reason to take it when they can grab basilisk or Dagger Storm. So a buff to those skills will see a trend with shadow meld being taken, which indirectly raises survivability just by a shift in load out

[Turk.5460]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Right now, most DEs still have very little reason to take it when they can grab basilisk or Dagger Storm.

Shadow Meld is almost 100% picked by DE outside of obscure niche builds that won't perform nearly as well in a variety of situations.Most DE are using Rifle, and Shadow Meld benefits that playstyle far more than the other elites.

[Jack Redline.5379]

Again someone mixing Thieves with Deadeyes. The buff you mentioned and the playstyled you mentioned are Deadeye playstyles and buffs. Thief has nothing to do with it. Thief cant blink out and in Stealth Deadeye can. So please dont mix these two classes thank you. It is about time you finally learned the difference it is not that hard. If it h as elite spec Deadeye it is Deadeye. If not it is Thief. Thank you

[Sindrener.1592]

Stealth on dodge should not exist at all period