Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Myrdreth.6829 said:Why would you want to buy gems on another site rather than directly ingame? Because it's way cheaper.Isnt it extreme stupid? xDIt's risky and most likely against the rules. But I would never call somebody stupid who's trying to save money.What I meant is that the fact that thete are vendors(that dont steal) that sell gems cheaper than the game itself is stupid.Why? The cheaper something is the more likely it's going to be bought. So by making something slightly cheaper you could potentially earn more.It makes zero sense for a-net to sell gems cheaper than in-game since thats the best place for them to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @"Ralistu.1965" said:I'd rather support the game I love that has NO monthly fee and buy it 9gems) straight from in-game and the game, straight from their website. I don't see a reason to be a cheap-o on a game with ZERO monthly fee. That's fine but I really have to admit I do not understand people like you. The monthly fee you are so against is a pittance compared to what you spend on gems I'll bet. So to me what you're saying is this:"I have no problems spending hundreds or thousands a year on the gem store because they don't have a sub which would cost me 140 bucks a year." It's like you're so happy that you don't have to pay that basic sub fee that you willingly spend 3, 4, 10 times as much instead. And I know you're not alone in that but I just don't get that. To each their own of course and I'm not here to tell you to stop but to me that makes players like you willing thieves of their own wallets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @Ralistu.1965 said:I'd rather support the game I love that has NO monthly fee and buy it 9gems) straight from in-game and the game, straight from their website. I don't see a reason to be a cheap-o on a game with ZERO monthly fee. While I totally agree and I am too paranoid to buy anywhere else some of these sites offer price 25-30% cheaper than in game which is rather enticing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight.7526 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @Gehenna.3625 said:@"Ralistu.1965" said:I'd rather support the game I love that has NO monthly fee and buy it 9gems) straight from in-game and the game, straight from their website. I don't see a reason to be a cheap-o on a game with ZERO monthly fee. That's fine but I really have to admit I do not understand people like you. The monthly fee you are so against is a pittance compared to what you spend on gems I'll bet. So to me what you're saying is this:"I have no problems spending hundreds or thousands a year on the gem store because they don't have a sub which would cost me 140 bucks a year." It's like you're so happy that you don't have to pay that basic sub fee that you willingly spend 3, 4, 10 times as much instead. And I know you're not alone in that but I just don't get that. To each their own of course and I'm not here to tell you to stop but to me that makes players like you willing thieves of their own wallets.The difference being that one month you may have the extra income to buy some gems and another you might be having to save your money, but you can keep playing regardless of month-to-month expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralistu.1965 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @Gehenna.3625 said:@"Ralistu.1965" said:I'd rather support the game I love that has NO monthly fee and buy it 9gems) straight from in-game and the game, straight from their website. I don't see a reason to be a cheap-o on a game with ZERO monthly fee. That's fine but I really have to admit I do not understand people like you. The monthly fee you are so against is a pittance compared to what you spend on gems I'll bet. So to me what you're saying is this:"I have no problems spending hundreds or thousands a year on the gem store because they don't have a sub which would cost me 140 bucks a year." It's like you're so happy that you don't have to pay that basic sub fee that you willingly spend 3, 4, 10 times as much instead. And I know you're not alone in that but I just don't get that. To each their own of course and I'm not here to tell you to stop but to me that makes players like you willing thieves of their own wallets.I love how you just naturally show you ignorance to the word. How do you know what I spend on gems? That's some blatant generalizations. it's 50 bucks a year , actually, smarta$$ AND I have no problem paying market vaule for an MMO @ 140 buckjs a year. You must really love those WoW players that not only spend 140 a year, but also buy mounts and stuff.next time. check your ignorance at the door. I support devs, not 3rd party capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @Ralistu.1965 said:@Gehenna.3625 said:@Ralistu.1965 said:I'd rather support the game I love that has NO monthly fee and buy it 9gems) straight from in-game and the game, straight from their website. I don't see a reason to be a cheap-o on a game with ZERO monthly fee. That's fine but I really have to admit I do not understand people like you. The monthly fee you are so against is a pittance compared to what you spend on gems I'll bet. So to me what you're saying is this:"I have no problems spending hundreds or thousands a year on the gem store because they don't have a sub which would cost me 140 bucks a year." It's like you're so happy that you don't have to pay that basic sub fee that you willingly spend 3, 4, 10 times as much instead. And I know you're not alone in that but I just don't get that. To each their own of course and I'm not here to tell you to stop but to me that makes players like you willing thieves of their own wallets.I love how you just naturally show you ignorance to the word. How do you know what I spend on gems? That's some blatant generalizations. it's 50 bucks a year , actually, smarta$$ AND I have no problem paying market vaule for an MMO @ 140 buckjs a year. You must really love those WoW players that not only spend 140 a year, but also buy mounts and stuff.next time. check your ignorance at the door. I support devs, not 3rd party capitalism. You certainly made it sound like you spend lavish amounts on gems without a thought but if I misinterpreted that, then I am happy to accept I misunderstood you. However, a misinterpretation is hardly reason for the tone you use here and the ad hominems you throw at me here. Also I know there are people who spend a lot more than a sub every month and have the same thoughts about it. So sorry for thinking you were one of them. It just sounded like that to me.But really, your language and aggression are unwarranted. I truly don't get players who spend more than a sub and think it's great that there's no sub and they can spend more. So again, if that's not you, then sorry, but it just sounded to me like you were.If it's 50 bucks a year then clearly you get a better deal. But for 50 bucks in gems I can't even get the bank space and inventory space I do get in sub games. So if I want to have that experience of having that storage space then for me a sub is a better deal than GW2.And that's not even taking into account all the cosmetics stuff like outfits and mounts. I'm not even talking about that. Even just comparing bank and inventory space and not having to spend money on gathering tools makes a sub cheaper for me personally. So that's where it's at for me. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @Midnight.7526 said:@Gehenna.3625 said:@"Ralistu.1965" said:I'd rather support the game I love that has NO monthly fee and buy it 9gems) straight from in-game and the game, straight from their website. I don't see a reason to be a cheap-o on a game with ZERO monthly fee. That's fine but I really have to admit I do not understand people like you. The monthly fee you are so against is a pittance compared to what you spend on gems I'll bet. So to me what you're saying is this:"I have no problems spending hundreds or thousands a year on the gem store because they don't have a sub which would cost me 140 bucks a year." It's like you're so happy that you don't have to pay that basic sub fee that you willingly spend 3, 4, 10 times as much instead. And I know you're not alone in that but I just don't get that. To each their own of course and I'm not here to tell you to stop but to me that makes players like you willing thieves of their own wallets.The difference being that one month you may have the extra income to buy some gems and another you might be having to save your money, but you can keep playing regardless of month-to-month expenses.Well you could also buy more months of sub when you have the money so you can ease off on other months. But hey, as I said, if people want it that way that's fine. I just have a hard time understanding why people are happy to pay more than a sub because it's not in the form of a sub. Not even cosmetics but just inventory bags and stuff like that. With a sub you have all that or can buy it easily with in game currency. So for me a sub is worth it already just because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeefa.3915 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 I would never ever buy gems from anywhere outside of the game itself or authorised retailers. Its just not worth the risk. I also want to be sure that the money I spend on the game actually goes to support it. Im one of those people that are very happy there is no sub, I don't like that concept for playing a game. But no I do not spend more on gems than a sub would cost... quite far from it. I might buy gems 2-4 times a year and always at the lower amounts. Terribly sorry to say that I think it is a bit dumb to buy from unauthorised sites. Trying to save money might not be dumb at all, but when it leads to taking silly risks... it kinda gets there. Ofc. thats just my opinion and Im not going to stop anyone from doing their own thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurian.6571 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 If you went into a restaurant and the food was good, and the waitress was nice, it is not unreasonable to leave a 15-20% tip. Why? To let the waitress know that you were appreciative of the experience. So, why not do the same in GW2? Buy some gems now and then (maybe every two to four months?). Over the (soon to be) six years of playing this game, I have gotten a lot of enjoyment from this game, and I am not afraid to let Anet know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Gaile Gray.6029 Posted October 10, 2018 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted October 10, 2018 @Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:@Gehenna.3625 said:This page is so outdated there are dead links, links to pages that no longer sell any GW2 or only the expansions or game guides and only very rarely can you find one that sells gem cards and they sell them above the suggested retail price. I especially love the one that has the picture with the price 24.99 on it and they sell it for 28.99. For comparison the 24.99 one matches the GW2 pricing in game.So this page is UTTERLY useless. @Gaile Gray.6029This is a problem though. The list of authorized retailers is very poorly maintained, at least among nordic countries but I suspect it's quite general.Several of the links to retailers in my country (Sweden) lead to HoT pre-purchase items! Of the 8 retailers, only 2 stock anything GW2 related, and just one actually stocks the game! (one more still shows out-of-stock search hits)You're absolutely correct about that page. It was designed for sales of the game, and it has not been kept up to date in a long while. I've reached out to our sales team to ask if they plan to update the page, and they said it's something they want to do, but it's not something that will be caught up to date in the near future. This means that the advice I shared about specific stores is the best I can offer. I will reach out to see if there are specific Nordic vendors that we could recommend.@Zeefa.3915 said:I would never ever buy gems from anywhere outside of the game itself or authorised retailers. Its just not worth the risk. I also want to be sure that the money I spend on the game actually goes to support it. Im one of those people that are very happy there is no sub, I don't like that concept for playing a game. But no I do not spend more on gems than a sub would cost... quite far from it. I might buy gems 2-4 times a year and always at the lower amounts. @Centurian.6571 said:If you went into a restaurant and the food was good, and the waitress was nice, it is not unreasonable to leave a 15-20% tip. Why? To let the waitress know that you were appreciative of the experience. So, why not do the same in GW2? Buy some gems now and then (maybe every two to four months?). Over the (soon to be) six years of playing this game, I have gotten a lot of enjoyment from this game, and I am not afraid to let Anet know.Thank you both for your support! Gem purchases are never obligatory, but we do appreciate them when they fit into someone's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @mtpelion.4562 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@"Myrdreth.6829" said:Why would you want to buy gems on another site rather than directly ingame? Because it's way cheaper.Isnt it extreme stupid? xDIt's risky and most likely against the rules. But I would never call somebody stupid who's trying to save money.What I meant is that the fact that thete are vendors(that dont steal) that sell gems cheaper than the game itself is stupid.Why? The cheaper something is the more likely it's going to be bought. So by making something slightly cheaper you could potentially earn more.The retailers have to get the gem codes from ArenaNet.ArenaNet gives them a volume discount that allows the retailers to make a profit.If the retailers are able to undercut ArenaNet by a large margin and STILL make a profit, then ArenaNet was stupid with their pricing model.Ergo, if you see a deeply discounted gem code, the three most likely scenarios (in order of likelihood) are:No one is buying gem codes, so the retailer is selling at a loss/no profit point to recoup some of their money.The retailer is selling illegitimate codes that were either stolen or purchased with a stolen credit card and because it cost them nothing, are able to sell it for a cheap price.ArenaNet was very bad at their pricing model and thus went bankrupt 6 years ago (seems unlikely without some form of time travel).you forgot the fourth option.they get more profit from adds then selling items so their profit is still far better then given bought codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @sorudo.9054 said:@mtpelion.4562 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@"Myrdreth.6829" said:Why would you want to buy gems on another site rather than directly ingame? Because it's way cheaper.Isnt it extreme stupid? xDIt's risky and most likely against the rules. But I would never call somebody stupid who's trying to save money.What I meant is that the fact that thete are vendors(that dont steal) that sell gems cheaper than the game itself is stupid.Why? The cheaper something is the more likely it's going to be bought. So by making something slightly cheaper you could potentially earn more.The retailers have to get the gem codes from ArenaNet.ArenaNet gives them a volume discount that allows the retailers to make a profit.If the retailers are able to undercut ArenaNet by a large margin and STILL make a profit, then ArenaNet was stupid with their pricing model.Ergo, if you see a deeply discounted gem code, the three most likely scenarios (in order of likelihood) are:No one is buying gem codes, so the retailer is selling at a loss/no profit point to recoup some of their money.The retailer is selling illegitimate codes that were either stolen or purchased with a stolen credit card and because it cost them nothing, are able to sell it for a cheap price.ArenaNet was very bad at their pricing model and thus went bankrupt 6 years ago (seems unlikely without some form of time travel).you forgot the fourth option.they get more profit from adds then selling items so their profit is still far better then given bought codes.Thats not even an option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockhead Magee.3092 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @Gaile Gray.6029 said:@Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:@Gehenna.3625 said:This page is so outdated there are dead links, links to pages that no longer sell any GW2 or only the expansions or game guides and only very rarely can you find one that sells gem cards and they sell them above the suggested retail price. I especially love the one that has the picture with the price 24.99 on it and they sell it for 28.99. For comparison the 24.99 one matches the GW2 pricing in game.So this page is UTTERLY useless. @Gaile Gray.6029This is a problem though. The list of authorized retailers is very poorly maintained, at least among nordic countries but I suspect it's quite general.Several of the links to retailers in my country (Sweden) lead to HoT pre-purchase items! Of the 8 retailers, only 2 stock anything GW2 related, and just one actually stocks the game! (one more still shows out-of-stock search hits)You're absolutely correct about that page. It was designed for sales of the game, and it has not been kept up to date in a long while. I've reached out to our sales team to ask if they plan to update the page, and they said it's something they want to do, but it's not something that will be caught up to date in the near future. This means that the advice I shared about specific stores is the best I can offer. I will reach out to see if there are specific Nordic vendors that we could recommend.The sales team can't find the time to update a site that's advertised that it sells the product. I'm not sure if I'm more saddened by it being so many years out of date, the sales team losing track of it or that they're not rushing to fix it since its a direct point for the company to make income. Wow.... just wow..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @Gehenna.3625 said:@Ralistu.1965 said:@Gehenna.3625 said:@Ralistu.1965 said:I'd rather support the game I love that has NO monthly fee and buy it 9gems) straight from in-game and the game, straight from their website. I don't see a reason to be a cheap-o on a game with ZERO monthly fee. That's fine but I really have to admit I do not understand people like you. The monthly fee you are so against is a pittance compared to what you spend on gems I'll bet. So to me what you're saying is this:"I have no problems spending hundreds or thousands a year on the gem store because they don't have a sub which would cost me 140 bucks a year." It's like you're so happy that you don't have to pay that basic sub fee that you willingly spend 3, 4, 10 times as much instead. And I know you're not alone in that but I just don't get that. To each their own of course and I'm not here to tell you to stop but to me that makes players like you willing thieves of their own wallets.I love how you just naturally show you ignorance to the word. How do you know what I spend on gems? That's some blatant generalizations. it's 50 bucks a year , actually, smarta$$ AND I have no problem paying market vaule for an MMO @ 140 buckjs a year. You must really love those WoW players that not only spend 140 a year, but also buy mounts and stuff.next time. check your ignorance at the door. I support devs, not 3rd party capitalism. You certainly made it sound like you spend lavish amounts on gems without a thought but if I misinterpreted that, then I am happy to accept I misunderstood you. However, a misinterpretation is hardly reason for the tone you use here and the ad hominems you throw at me here. Also I know there are people who spend a lot more than a sub every month and have the same thoughts about it. So sorry for thinking you were one of them. It just sounded like that to me.But really, your language and aggression are unwarranted. I truly don't get players who spend more than a sub and think it's great that there's no sub and they can spend more. So again, if that's not you, then sorry, but it just sounded to me like you were.If it's 50 bucks a year then clearly you get a better deal. But for 50 bucks in gems I can't even get the bank space and inventory space I do get in sub games. So if I want to have that experience of having that storage space then for me a sub is a better deal than GW2.And that's not even taking into account all the cosmetics stuff like outfits and mounts. I'm not even talking about that. Even just comparing bank and inventory space and not having to spend money on gathering tools makes a sub cheaper for me personally. So that's where it's at for me. Nothing more.I totally agree,I would rather pay a set amount per month and have the full game available for me in almost any MMO.The way GW2 works(an MMO with virtually zero gear progression where gold is the ultimate currency) I think the current model fits much better.Besides, companies are so greedy now that even games with a sub fee have a cash-store.e.g : WoW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @Amaranthe.3578 said:@sorudo.9054 said:@mtpelion.4562 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@"Myrdreth.6829" said:Why would you want to buy gems on another site rather than directly ingame? Because it's way cheaper.Isnt it extreme stupid? xDIt's risky and most likely against the rules. But I would never call somebody stupid who's trying to save money.What I meant is that the fact that thete are vendors(that dont steal) that sell gems cheaper than the game itself is stupid.Why? The cheaper something is the more likely it's going to be bought. So by making something slightly cheaper you could potentially earn more.The retailers have to get the gem codes from ArenaNet.ArenaNet gives them a volume discount that allows the retailers to make a profit.If the retailers are able to undercut ArenaNet by a large margin and STILL make a profit, then ArenaNet was stupid with their pricing model.Ergo, if you see a deeply discounted gem code, the three most likely scenarios (in order of likelihood) are:No one is buying gem codes, so the retailer is selling at a loss/no profit point to recoup some of their money.The retailer is selling illegitimate codes that were either stolen or purchased with a stolen credit card and because it cost them nothing, are able to sell it for a cheap price.ArenaNet was very bad at their pricing model and thus went bankrupt 6 years ago (seems unlikely without some form of time travel).you forgot the fourth option.they get more profit from adds then selling items so their profit is still far better then given bought codes.Thats not even an option sorry to say this but you gotta be quite naive to think this isn't happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @sorudo.9054 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@sorudo.9054 said:@mtpelion.4562 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@"Myrdreth.6829" said:Why would you want to buy gems on another site rather than directly ingame? Because it's way cheaper.Isnt it extreme stupid? xDIt's risky and most likely against the rules. But I would never call somebody stupid who's trying to save money.What I meant is that the fact that thete are vendors(that dont steal) that sell gems cheaper than the game itself is stupid.Why? The cheaper something is the more likely it's going to be bought. So by making something slightly cheaper you could potentially earn more.The retailers have to get the gem codes from ArenaNet.ArenaNet gives them a volume discount that allows the retailers to make a profit.If the retailers are able to undercut ArenaNet by a large margin and STILL make a profit, then ArenaNet was stupid with their pricing model.Ergo, if you see a deeply discounted gem code, the three most likely scenarios (in order of likelihood) are:No one is buying gem codes, so the retailer is selling at a loss/no profit point to recoup some of their money.The retailer is selling illegitimate codes that were either stolen or purchased with a stolen credit card and because it cost them nothing, are able to sell it for a cheap price.ArenaNet was very bad at their pricing model and thus went bankrupt 6 years ago (seems unlikely without some form of time travel).you forgot the fourth option.they get more profit from adds then selling items so their profit is still far better then given bought codes.Thats not even an option sorry to say this but you gotta be quite naive to think this isn't happening.Sorry to say but you got to be extremely naive and understand nothing of business to think that a retailer will lower prices significantly because he makes the rest from ads.Turn your adblock off and search for a retailer with a site thats blasted with ads.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plok.5873 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 There is another problem, IMHO a proverbial elephant in the room; AN's policy of severe punishment for entering codes linked to frauds. Since they cannot get a hold on the perpetrator, they go nuclear on whoever enters the code, even in good faith, and terminate accounts.I used to receive Gems Cards as gifts from the family every now and then. I asked them to stop this, feeling unsure about my accounts safety not perfectly knowing every last step of the purchase. I used to habitually buy Gems Cards myself, at least every few moths, and stopped doing that as well. Buying directly in the ingame shop means a mark-up of more than 1/4, which leaves a bitter taste. Call me petty, but around my hobby I do not like to be exasperated.If every possible glitch in international payment systems implies a severe danger to my account, it isn't worth the risk. There are umlauts in my name and address, leading to 4+ valid spellings. Same is true for family members. By experience: problems do occur. 20y ago my CC got locked for a few days every 3rd time I bought shareware across the atlantic :-). Problems were always solvable and became much rarer over the years.@Gaile Gray.6029 Yet the quintessence persists: kitten happens. If that leads to AN blindly destroying the work I invested into my characters, I'll rather abstain from buying gems. I'm quite certain this is not what AN had in mind with this practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrdreth.6829 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 @Centurian.6571 said:If you went into a restaurant and the food was good, and the waitress was nice, it is not unreasonable to leave a 15-20% tip. Why? To let the waitress know that you were appreciative of the experience. So, why not do the same in GW2? Buy some gems now and then (maybe every two to four months?). Over the (soon to be) six years of playing this game, I have gotten a lot of enjoyment from this game, and I am not afraid to let Anet know.That's exactly how I feel! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 @Amaranthe.3578 said:@Gehenna.3625 said:@Ralistu.1965 said:@Gehenna.3625 said:@Ralistu.1965 said:I'd rather support the game I love that has NO monthly fee and buy it 9gems) straight from in-game and the game, straight from their website. I don't see a reason to be a cheap-o on a game with ZERO monthly fee. That's fine but I really have to admit I do not understand people like you. The monthly fee you are so against is a pittance compared to what you spend on gems I'll bet. So to me what you're saying is this:"I have no problems spending hundreds or thousands a year on the gem store because they don't have a sub which would cost me 140 bucks a year." It's like you're so happy that you don't have to pay that basic sub fee that you willingly spend 3, 4, 10 times as much instead. And I know you're not alone in that but I just don't get that. To each their own of course and I'm not here to tell you to stop but to me that makes players like you willing thieves of their own wallets.I love how you just naturally show you ignorance to the word. How do you know what I spend on gems? That's some blatant generalizations. it's 50 bucks a year , actually, smarta$$ AND I have no problem paying market vaule for an MMO @ 140 buckjs a year. You must really love those WoW players that not only spend 140 a year, but also buy mounts and stuff.next time. check your ignorance at the door. I support devs, not 3rd party capitalism. You certainly made it sound like you spend lavish amounts on gems without a thought but if I misinterpreted that, then I am happy to accept I misunderstood you. However, a misinterpretation is hardly reason for the tone you use here and the ad hominems you throw at me here. Also I know there are people who spend a lot more than a sub every month and have the same thoughts about it. So sorry for thinking you were one of them. It just sounded like that to me.But really, your language and aggression are unwarranted. I truly don't get players who spend more than a sub and think it's great that there's no sub and they can spend more. So again, if that's not you, then sorry, but it just sounded to me like you were.If it's 50 bucks a year then clearly you get a better deal. But for 50 bucks in gems I can't even get the bank space and inventory space I do get in sub games. So if I want to have that experience of having that storage space then for me a sub is a better deal than GW2.And that's not even taking into account all the cosmetics stuff like outfits and mounts. I'm not even talking about that. Even just comparing bank and inventory space and not having to spend money on gathering tools makes a sub cheaper for me personally. So that's where it's at for me. Nothing more.I totally agree,I would rather pay a set amount per month and have the full game available for me in almost any MMO.The way GW2 works(an MMO with virtually zero gear progression where gold is the ultimate currency) I think the current model fits much better.Besides, companies are so greedy now that even games with a sub fee have a cash-store.e.g : WoWI haven't really played WoW (just the trial and I didn't like it) so I can't say too much about their cash shop. Some time ago a player told me there was very little to get in the cash shop other than services like name changes and server transfers etc. And yes a couple of mounts that you don't really need because there are a lot of mounts in the game. Maybe they've expanded the cosmetics by now, I honestly couldn't tell you.But this is why I make a distinction between what I see as basic QoL things like inventory space and cosmetics. A lot of MMOs with subs that I am aware of do have a cash shop these days on top of their subs, mostly geared towards cosmetics. I cannot blame ArenaNet therefore to get on that same boat and well their outfit prices are overpriced by default but they are certainly reasonable within the context of other cash shops.The issue I have is when a game creates a need for certain items that are available only in the cash shop. Even when you can earn them in game like here, it takes a long time so it really just pushes towards spending. My view is that core elements like inventory and bank space should be available in a game and not exclusive to a cash shop when I pay for the game.So the way I see it is that most of the cash shop items here I don't really have an argument with except the general argument that goes for all games that they are overpriced. But that's a personal choice as long as the game offers a fair amount of alternatives. I believe GW2 does. However, I do have a problem with having to get extra inventory slots for bags and bank tabs via the gem store only. You could argue that you can get them in game by getting gold and trading them for gems and that's true in theory. However, the amount of time it takes to get these together for the amount you'd need particularly when you play multiple characters is prohibitive for me. The added reason why I find it unreasonable also is because GW2 definitely throws tons of loot at you making sure that your bags get filled quickly, therefore creating an annoyance that's expensive in money or time to fill out so that you don't get in trouble just doing one meta event with your bags filling up entirely. And that's after buying a few more bag slots for my main. In this discussion I simple have a hard time understanding how some people defend gem store spending and prices while using the argument that there is no sub. I think there are a few people who cannot distinguish between not understanding something and judging something. I did state on multiple occasions that it's fine and I have no problems with them seeing it that way, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And that should also be ok.And I can do basic math, so when I calculate what I would like to have for all my characters (I have 7) to make the game enjoyable for me with such basic elements, I'm talking about spending about 500 Euros on gems just for that. Now just that alone buys me a sub for 4 years where I wouldn't have to worry about these items because they are included in the game already. So to me, considering that I only play this game a few months at a time with big breaks in between, this amounts to a worse deal than when I would pay a sub in another game. Again, I'm not even talking about cosmetics at all. So that's my view and my logic for finding these items too expensive. That doesn't mean my view works for everyone but I think it also explains I do not understand the view that a sub is so terribly expensive and prohibitive, especially when people do spend a lot of money in the cash shop. Not everybody does of course, so that was my misinterpretation and I accepted that in spite of the name calling. The truth is though that MMOs make a lot more money with cash shops than with subs. I don't think this is something new or controversial I'm saying. So yeah, clearly players overall drop a lot more cash on a game like this and that's why sub games started doing it too. I just don't think it was a smart move of the overall player groups in MMOs to start complaining about subs and demanding a different business model. Of course there are people who benefit from it because they are not spending all that cash on it and are perfectly happy with the limitations that are there. That's cool for them, but maybe because I've played MMOs for many years I've got a certain standard of things I'd like to have in games and since GW2 monetizes a part of that, I have to choose between paying more than a sub would cost me or accepting to play only one or two characters. To me that's not a nice choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 @Gehenna.3625 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Gehenna.3625 said:@Ralistu.1965 said:@Gehenna.3625 said:@Ralistu.1965 said:I'd rather support the game I love that has NO monthly fee and buy it 9gems) straight from in-game and the game, straight from their website. I don't see a reason to be a cheap-o on a game with ZERO monthly fee. That's fine but I really have to admit I do not understand people like you. The monthly fee you are so against is a pittance compared to what you spend on gems I'll bet. So to me what you're saying is this:"I have no problems spending hundreds or thousands a year on the gem store because they don't have a sub which would cost me 140 bucks a year." It's like you're so happy that you don't have to pay that basic sub fee that you willingly spend 3, 4, 10 times as much instead. And I know you're not alone in that but I just don't get that. To each their own of course and I'm not here to tell you to stop but to me that makes players like you willing thieves of their own wallets.I love how you just naturally show you ignorance to the word. How do you know what I spend on gems? That's some blatant generalizations. it's 50 bucks a year , actually, smarta$$ AND I have no problem paying market vaule for an MMO @ 140 buckjs a year. You must really love those WoW players that not only spend 140 a year, but also buy mounts and stuff.next time. check your ignorance at the door. I support devs, not 3rd party capitalism. You certainly made it sound like you spend lavish amounts on gems without a thought but if I misinterpreted that, then I am happy to accept I misunderstood you. However, a misinterpretation is hardly reason for the tone you use here and the ad hominems you throw at me here. Also I know there are people who spend a lot more than a sub every month and have the same thoughts about it. So sorry for thinking you were one of them. It just sounded like that to me.But really, your language and aggression are unwarranted. I truly don't get players who spend more than a sub and think it's great that there's no sub and they can spend more. So again, if that's not you, then sorry, but it just sounded to me like you were.If it's 50 bucks a year then clearly you get a better deal. But for 50 bucks in gems I can't even get the bank space and inventory space I do get in sub games. So if I want to have that experience of having that storage space then for me a sub is a better deal than GW2.And that's not even taking into account all the cosmetics stuff like outfits and mounts. I'm not even talking about that. Even just comparing bank and inventory space and not having to spend money on gathering tools makes a sub cheaper for me personally. So that's where it's at for me. Nothing more.I totally agree,I would rather pay a set amount per month and have the full game available for me in almost any MMO.The way GW2 works(an MMO with virtually zero gear progression where gold is the ultimate currency) I think the current model fits much better.Besides, companies are so greedy now that even games with a sub fee have a cash-store.e.g : WoWI haven't really played WoW (just the trial and I didn't like it) so I can't say too much about their cash shop. Some time ago a player told me there was very little to get in the cash shop other than services like name changes and server transfers etc. And yes a couple of mounts that you don't really need because there are a lot of mounts in the game. Maybe they've expanded the cosmetics by now, I honestly couldn't tell you.But this is why I make a distinction between what I see as basic QoL things like inventory space and cosmetics. A lot of MMOs with subs that I am aware of do have a cash shop these days on top of their subs, mostly geared towards cosmetics. I cannot blame ArenaNet therefore to get on that same boat and well their outfit prices are overpriced by default but they are certainly reasonable within the context of other cash shops.The issue I have is when a game creates a need for certain items that are available only in the cash shop. Even when you can earn them in game like here, it takes a long time so it really just pushes towards spending. My view is that core elements like inventory and bank space should be available in a game and not exclusive to a cash shop when I pay for the game.So the way I see it is that most of the cash shop items here I don't really have an argument with except the general argument that goes for all games that they are overpriced. But that's a personal choice as long as the game offers a fair amount of alternatives. I believe GW2 does. However, I do have a problem with having to get extra inventory slots for bags and bank tabs via the gem store only. You could argue that you can get them in game by getting gold and trading them for gems and that's true in theory. However, the amount of time it takes to get these together for the amount you'd need particularly when you play multiple characters is prohibitive for me. The added reason why I find it unreasonable also is because GW2 definitely throws tons of loot at you making sure that your bags get filled quickly, therefore creating an annoyance that's expensive in money or time to fill out so that you don't get in trouble just doing one meta event with your bags filling up entirely. And that's after buying a few more bag slots for my main. In this discussion I simple have a hard time understanding how some people defend gem store spending and prices while using the argument that there is no sub. I think there are a few people who cannot distinguish between not understanding something and judging something. I did state on multiple occasions that it's fine and I have no problems with them seeing it that way, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And that should also be ok.And I can do basic math, so when I calculate what I would like to have for all my characters (I have 7) to make the game enjoyable for me with such basic elements, I'm talking about spending about 500 Euros on gems just for that. Now just that alone buys me a sub for 4 years where I wouldn't have to worry about these items because they are included in the game already. So to me, considering that I only play this game a few months at a time with big breaks in between, this amounts to a worse deal than when I would pay a sub in another game. Again, I'm not even talking about cosmetics at all. So that's my view and my logic for finding these items too expensive. That doesn't mean my view works for everyone but I think it also explains I do not understand the view that a sub is so terribly expensive and prohibitive, especially when people do spend a lot of money in the cash shop. Not everybody does of course, so that was my misinterpretation and I accepted that in spite of the name calling. The truth is though that MMOs make a lot more money with cash shops than with subs. I don't think this is something new or controversial I'm saying. So yeah, clearly players overall drop a lot more cash on a game like this and that's why sub games started doing it too. I just don't think it was a smart move of the overall player groups in MMOs to start complaining about subs and demanding a different business model. Of course there are people who benefit from it because they are not spending all that cash on it and are perfectly happy with the limitations that are there. That's cool for them, but maybe because I've played MMOs for many years I've got a certain standard of things I'd like to have in games and since GW2 monetizes a part of that, I have to choose between paying more than a sub would cost me or accepting to play only one or two characters. To me that's not a nice choice.I totally agree on the inventory/bank space...making it a gem thing is rather disgusting.But in the long run if your really care about it and buy the extra slots on sale it should end costing you less than a sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinens.5920 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 @Myrdreth.6829 said:Why would you want to buy gems on another site rather than directly ingame? Because you can't gift gems bought in the gem store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 @Odinens.5920 said:@Myrdreth.6829 said:Why would you want to buy gems on another site rather than directly ingame? Because you can't gift gems bought in the gem store.Most comments so far have dealt with the cost picture but this is a side I hadn't considered yet. That is indeed a thing. If you want to buy something for a friend or a family member for xmas or their birthday, you can only do that via gem cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 @Amaranthe.3578 said:@sorudo.9054 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@sorudo.9054 said:@mtpelion.4562 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@"Myrdreth.6829" said:Why would you want to buy gems on another site rather than directly ingame? Because it's way cheaper.Isnt it extreme stupid? xDIt's risky and most likely against the rules. But I would never call somebody stupid who's trying to save money.What I meant is that the fact that thete are vendors(that dont steal) that sell gems cheaper than the game itself is stupid.Why? The cheaper something is the more likely it's going to be bought. So by making something slightly cheaper you could potentially earn more.The retailers have to get the gem codes from ArenaNet.ArenaNet gives them a volume discount that allows the retailers to make a profit.If the retailers are able to undercut ArenaNet by a large margin and STILL make a profit, then ArenaNet was stupid with their pricing model.Ergo, if you see a deeply discounted gem code, the three most likely scenarios (in order of likelihood) are:No one is buying gem codes, so the retailer is selling at a loss/no profit point to recoup some of their money.The retailer is selling illegitimate codes that were either stolen or purchased with a stolen credit card and because it cost them nothing, are able to sell it for a cheap price.ArenaNet was very bad at their pricing model and thus went bankrupt 6 years ago (seems unlikely without some form of time travel).you forgot the fourth option.they get more profit from adds then selling items so their profit is still far better then given bought codes.Thats not even an option sorry to say this but you gotta be quite naive to think this isn't happening.Sorry to say but you got to be extremely naive and understand nothing of business to think that a retailer will lower prices significantly because he makes the rest from ads.Turn your adblock off and search for a retailer with a site thats blasted with ads....you must be joking right?firstly, they get more from adds then gem sales, selling them slightly cheaper still increases sales because adds compensates for their costs. (turning my blocker off makes my skin crawl with their add spamming.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranthe.3578 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 @sorudo.9054 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@sorudo.9054 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@sorudo.9054 said:@mtpelion.4562 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@Amaranthe.3578 said:@Maikimaik.1974 said:@"Myrdreth.6829" said:Why would you want to buy gems on another site rather than directly ingame? Because it's way cheaper.Isnt it extreme stupid? xDIt's risky and most likely against the rules. But I would never call somebody stupid who's trying to save money.What I meant is that the fact that thete are vendors(that dont steal) that sell gems cheaper than the game itself is stupid.Why? The cheaper something is the more likely it's going to be bought. So by making something slightly cheaper you could potentially earn more.The retailers have to get the gem codes from ArenaNet.ArenaNet gives them a volume discount that allows the retailers to make a profit.If the retailers are able to undercut ArenaNet by a large margin and STILL make a profit, then ArenaNet was stupid with their pricing model.Ergo, if you see a deeply discounted gem code, the three most likely scenarios (in order of likelihood) are:No one is buying gem codes, so the retailer is selling at a loss/no profit point to recoup some of their money.The retailer is selling illegitimate codes that were either stolen or purchased with a stolen credit card and because it cost them nothing, are able to sell it for a cheap price.ArenaNet was very bad at their pricing model and thus went bankrupt 6 years ago (seems unlikely without some form of time travel).you forgot the fourth option.they get more profit from adds then selling items so their profit is still far better then given bought codes.Thats not even an option sorry to say this but you gotta be quite naive to think this isn't happening.Sorry to say but you got to be extremely naive and understand nothing of business to think that a retailer will lower prices significantly because he makes the rest from ads.Turn your adblock off and search for a retailer with a site thats blasted with ads....you must be joking right?firstly, they get more from adds then gem sales, selling them slightly cheaper still increases sales because adds compensates for their costs. (turning my blocker off makes my skin crawl with their add spamming.)Again your display your hilarious ignorance.First of all,nobody is talking about SLIGHTLY cheaper....you can get cards 25% cheaper than in-game.No,a sales site wouldn't make a lot of money from ads.(news sites do because they attract lots of views)The site you linked has no ads xD I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plok.5873 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Guys, contenance please, or this thread might derail into pointless bickering.Maybe this whole problem could be left to the market if there was an easy way to check whether a bought code is linked a fraud or not. As I wrote before, I feel AN's policy of account termination on using compromised codes deters from buying gem in first place.So, if there was an easy way on AN's website to check on a code that might solve most problems. Result "code linked to fraudulent behaviour" -> immediately take steps against the seller Result "code clean" -> use code without fear of future sanctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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