What spec would you like thief to have next?

The Mechanic.3567 · November 4, 2018

If the Anet devs are listening, please dont make a condi focused spec. people hate on condi thieves enough as it is. Honestly its annoying to fight against. Please either make a support focused spec or give thief the kit to fight out of stealth without adding a bunch of evades and invulns.

Personally id like to see something like this:

The Mercenary:weapon: greatsword, skills with a block, counter and unblockable, maybe even a dash/moving slash for mobilitytraitline focused on stab, larger health pool, protection, boon riping then sharing and CC.

there is lore behind this from history where mercenarys were paid to wield greatswords to chop the ends of spears and pikes in large formations. they were particularaly effective against heavily armored opponents as the wieght of the sword could dent armor where regular swords were innefective against plate. the build could be focused on killing the tanky support builds in pvp and fill the role of bruiser. the damage doesnt need to be crazy. something on par with sword core thief that has skills meant for removing the tankyness of support guards and ignoring blocks etc while staying alive outside of stealth.

As i see it, elite specs are Anets attempt to make one class play like another. this would be my interpretation of making a thief play like a warrior. i think it would be much more fun to fight against than a condi spec thief with high mobility and stealth.

Crab Fear.1624 · November 4, 2018

nevermind.

Jack Redline.5379 · November 4, 2018

@The Mechanic.3567 said:If the Anet devs are listening, please dont make a condi focused spec. people hate on condi thieves enough as it is. Honestly its annoying to fight against. Please either make a support focused spec or give thief the kit to fight out of stealth without adding a bunch of evades and invulns.

i am having a great urge to tell something nasty to you but i wont. I will just say this. No. Thank you.

Jack Redline.5379 · November 4, 2018

I dont understand what the kitten happened to thieves community. WHO THE HELL ARE YOU PEOPLE? Thieves never wanted to be supports. Thieves always wanted to be cold blooded in shadow hiding killers. With big dps and majority of the time nobody cared if you do it with power or condi specs. We loved to be hated. The more salt the better. You know who feels like that now? MESMERS DO! What the hell happened to this community that y'all now want to be mages and supports and what ever else just not Thieves? Why? Is it because we are weaker than others now? Well kitten your weak behind. Stand up to what you have now and fight with it. And dont try to become other classes. We are theives. We have our kitten pride for what we are and how we do what we do. From what you are saying you just want to become Mesmers or Rangers or Wariors. Well then leave thief class. Make urself a nice mesmer or whatever and enjoy your great benefits. Dont put a sticker of Thief on other classes. We want to be thieves not anything else. If you cant take what a thief is get out. There is 8 other classes which are currently stronger than thief. Pick one and stick to it. Dont try to make thief anything else than a thief. You maybe dont realize it but you are stealing a whole class from people who love it for what it is. If Anet is listening like they did when they made Deadeye. God save us from what monstrosity they would create if they would listen to you.If you are a thief be a thief or get out.

MrForz.1953 · November 4, 2018

@Jack Redline.5379 said:If you are a thief be a thief or get out.

I don't understand you. Core Thief is right there, ripe for the taking.

Jack Redline.5379 · November 4, 2018

@MrForz.1953 said:
I don't understand you. Core Thief is right there, ripe for the taking.

And i don't understant what do you mean by that. I am talking about all this nonsense going around and ppl trying to change thief class into anything else.

MrForz.1953 · November 5, 2018

@Jack Redline.5379 said:And i don't understant what do you mean by that. I am talking about all this nonsense going around and ppl trying to change thief class into anything else.

But there's no change. Only alternatives. Core Thief will never change.

Look, I know where you're getting at. I wasn't happy Engineer has devolved into Holosmith but nothing keeps me from remaining a core Engi. The latter is my jam, my thing, a thing I hold dear. Much like you and the base concept of GW2's thief. As much as it may make sense, you unfortunately cannot judge whether your interpretation of the class is the right one. Everyone wants his own flavor, even you. Not everyone wants WoW's rogue and besides, it's not going away, it's placed right next to what you already have.

Jack Redline.5379 · November 5, 2018

@MrForz.1953 said:
Look, I know where you're getting at. I wasn't happy Engineer has devolved into Holosmith but nothing keeps me from remaining a core Engi. The latter is my jam, my thing, a thing I hold dear. Much like you and the base concept of GW2's thief. As much as it may make sense, you unfortunately cannot judge whether your interpretation of the class is the right one. Everyone wants his own flavor, even you. Not everyone wants WoW's rogue and besides, it's not going away, it's placed right next to what you already have.

Okay. I see what you mean. But the thing is the more new especs is there going to be the less viable is the core going to be. Already now. Core thief is hardly making it through not to mention condi thieves like myself. It is harder and harder with the core. And if the next elite will not boost the core but it will change thief in something else like it did with Deadeye already.Core will simply lost its meaning. Yes you will be able to play the game. PVP and WVW but you will make no progress. You will get stuck in Silver or Gold at best because your build will not let you further. And that is why i am arguing that ppl should not try to change thief in next espec. Cuz if Anet will change it and we will become a support class as many ppl want us to theif will simply die out. Even now ppl are simply transfering to other classes or Deadeye. I dont count that one as a thief cuz it is basically a sniper with shadow magic.And i dont want to be forced out of my class. It is not the game that would force me out, it would be the ppl. They would force me out of it. Condi thief to raids? No. Even these days ppl will right away ask me if i cant go Souldbeast or Holo. If it is a tolerant group they will let you play if not tough luck. Fractals? Okay maybe. Sometimes. But why would they take outdated thief if they can get new support thief. WvW and PvP okay. Maybe until Silver 3 or Gold 2. Because it wont be just a thief that will get new espec. It is going to be every class.They will be simply better and stronger and faster and your old thief will not be enough. That is why we need a strong new Thief like espec. Or we will parish.

Crab Fear.1624 · November 5, 2018

@Jack Redline.5379 said:
@MrForz.1953 said:
Look, I know where you're getting at. I wasn't happy Engineer has devolved into Holosmith but nothing keeps me from remaining a core Engi. The latter is my jam, my thing, a thing I hold dear. Much like you and the base concept of GW2's thief. As much as it may make sense, you unfortunately cannot judge whether your interpretation of the class is the right one. Everyone wants his own flavor, even you. Not everyone wants WoW's rogue and besides, it's not going away, it's placed right next to what you already have.

Okay. I see what you mean. But the thing is the more new especs is there going to be the less viable is the core going to be. Already now. Core thief is hardly making it through not to mention condi thieves like myself. It is harder and harder with the core. And if the next elite will not boost the core but it will change thief in something else like it did with Deadeye already.Core will simply lost its meaning. Yes you will be able to play the game. PVP and WVW but you will make no progress. You will get stuck in Silver or Gold at best because your build will not let you further. And that is why i am arguing that ppl should not try to change thief in next espec. Cuz if Anet will change it and we will become a support class as many ppl want us to theif will simply die out. Even now ppl are simply transfering to other classes or Deadeye. I dont count that one as a thief cuz it is basically a sniper with shadow magic.And i dont want to be forced out of my class. It is not the game that would force me out, it would be the ppl. They would force me out of it. Condi thief to raids? No. Even these days ppl will right away ask me if i cant go Souldbeast or Holo. If it is a tolerant group they will let you play if not tough luck. Fractals? Okay maybe. Sometimes. But why would they take outdated thief if they can get new support thief. WvW and PvP okay. Maybe until Silver 3 or Gold 2. Because it wont be just a thief that will get new espec. It is going to be every class.They will be simply better and stronger and faster and your old thief will not be enough. That is why we need a strong new Thief like espec. Or we will parish.

Don't worry about thief getting support, that's about as likely as guardians next elite being assassin.

Jack Redline.5379 · November 5, 2018

@Crab Fear.1624 said:
Don't worry about thief getting support, that's about as likely as guardians next elite being assassin.

bro i know you from forum and i know you agree but I will put a small reminder. Ele got sword cuz every ele was supposedly calling out to get it ALSO Deadeye got rifle because everyone supposedly wanted it. If everyone supposedly will this time want Suport thief even tho i believe we wont get it i have some serious goosebumps on my back when i recall these two supposedly forum based elites. And that is the last expansion. I am trying to talk sense to ppl here because i know Anet might just do it and i pray to all gods that they dont. Ergo my arguing with everyone who comes up with that crazy support crap. you argue with them as well i dont believe you do it just cuz you have a lot of free time

Sir Vincent III.1286 · November 5, 2018

Anyone who argues that Thief is like a Rogue does not fully understand how Guild Wars really works. The best tank in GW1 is a 55 monk. The best healer in GW1 is debatable between the Monk and the Elementalist. The best elemental caster is the uninterruptible Fast Casting Mesmers. Assassins that uses a sword and a shield and never equip a weapon skill instead casting spells. So on and so fort. This is the identity of Guild Wars and redefining it to look like any other MMO makes GW lose its identity.

The Thief is not a Rogue, it never was. Thief specializes in stealing, not brawling, sniping, or assassinating. The sooner that the Thief gets back into focusing in stealing, the better.

Crab Fear.1624 · November 5, 2018

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:Anyone who argues that Thief is like a Rogue does not fully understand how Guild Wars really works. The best tank in GW1 is a 55 monk. The best healer in GW1 is debatable between the Monk and the Elementalist. The best elemental caster is the uninterruptible Fast Casting Mesmers. Assassins that uses a sword and a shield and never equip a weapon skill instead casting spells. So on and so fort. This is the identity of Guild Wars and redefining it to look like any other MMO makes GW lose its identity.
The Thief is not a Rogue, it never was. Thief specializes in stealing, not brawling, sniping, or assassinating. The sooner that the Thief gets back into focusing in stealing, the better.

nah, GW2 pretty much went with standard thief/rogue definition in this game when they created the class

edit : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_(character_class) (hot link wasn't working, so just copy all including the parentheses)

also, Rogue...sounds a lot like our thieves

Another thing, since you like referincing GW1 as a foundation to stand, check out this mesmer skill and the related ones:

Arcane Larcenyand from GW2Arcane Thievery

let's not forget mesmers today use stealth, and according to you that's a product of shadow magic.

Magic thieves already existed and still exist in the game today. We know them as mesmers.

one more thing

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thief

"While being a confirmed reworking of the original assassin with no lore parallels between the two, the thief was the second profession unveiled not to be in the original Guild Wars."

"Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadowstepping to surprise and to get close to their target. They're deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom."

If you compare that to the thief archetype, it's curiously similar.....

However

I will concede that I can see how a magic using thief could be successful based on core traits if it is geared towards damage, but as a support the core traits of thief will not lend to nor bolster a support spec that would be competitive in any sense of the game.

Sir Vincent III.1286 · November 5, 2018

@Crab Fear.1624 said:
@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:Anyone who argues that Thief is like a Rogue does not fully understand how Guild Wars really works. The best tank in GW1 is a 55 monk. The best healer in GW1 is debatable between the Monk and the Elementalist. The best elemental caster is the uninterruptible Fast Casting Mesmers. Assassins that uses a sword and a shield and never equip a weapon skill instead casting spells. So on and so fort. This is the identity of Guild Wars and redefining it to look like any other MMO makes GW lose its identity.
The Thief is not a Rogue, it never was. Thief specializes in stealing, not brawling, sniping, or assassinating. The sooner that the Thief gets back into focusing in stealing, the better.

nah, GW2 pretty much went with standard thief/rogue definition in this game when they created the class

Not even close. Daredevil is a Rogue class having physical skills.

edit : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_(character_class) (hot link wasn't working, so just copy all including the parentheses)
also, Rogue...sounds a lot like our thieves

Just because I have the skill to speak Spanish, doesn't make me Spanish. Yes, Thieves has skills of Rogues, but that doesn't make them Rogues.

Another thing, since you like referincing GW1 as a foundation to stand, check out this mesmer skill and the related ones:
Arcane Larcenyand from GW2Arcane Thievery
let's not forget mesmers today use stealth, and according to you that's a product of shadow magic.

You're confused and dishonest.

If you review my post, I never said that the source of stealth is exclusive to Shadow Magic.

Rather I said, Engineer uses tools (e.g. gyro) to go in stealth, Ranger uses camo, Mesmer uses Illusion Magic, and Thief uses Shadow magic.

Further proof that you really do have reading comprehension problem.

Magic thieves already existed and still exist in the game today. We know them as mesmers.

Wrong. No matter how many times you try, the fact is, Mesmer uses Chaos magic and Thief uses Shadow magic. That is the fact.

You're not only being dishonest about my position, you're also being dishonest about the Thief and the Mesmer.

one more thing
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thief
"While being a confirmed reworking of the original assassin with no lore parallels between the two, the thief was the second profession unveiled not to be in the original Guild Wars."

Well, that is so freaking obvious. No one is making a parallel of the two profession. That is your failed attempt to misrepresent my position again.

"Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadowstepping to surprise and to get close to their target. They're deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom."
If you compare that to the thief archetype, it's curiously similar.....

Yet again you're confused. Compare thief to a thief? What? Of course they will be similar, they are both thief.

However
I will concede that I can see how a magic using thief could be successful based on core traits if it is geared towards damage, but as a support the core traits of thief will not lend to nor bolster a support spec that would be competitive in any sense of the game.

There is more to being support that just healing and protection.

Example: Having a friend hold your target in place so you can punch the target unhindered is a very good support skill.

No different that the Thief immobilizing the target so that your team can spike the target is an effective support skill that is often overlooked.

Crab Fear.1624 · November 5, 2018

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@Crab Fear.1624 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Anyone who argues that Thief is like a Rogue does not fully understand how Guild Wars really works. The best tank in GW1 is a 55 monk. The best healer in GW1 is debatable between the Monk and the Elementalist. The best elemental caster is the uninterruptible Fast Casting Mesmers. Assassins that uses a sword and a shield and never equip a weapon skill instead casting spells. So on and so fort. This is the identity of Guild Wars and redefining it to look like any other MMO makes GW lose its identity.
The Thief is not a Rogue, it never was. Thief specializes in stealing, not brawling, sniping, or assassinating. The sooner that the Thief gets back into focusing in stealing, the better.

nah, GW2 pretty much went with standard thief/rogue definition in this game when they created the class

Not even close. Daredevil is a Rogue class having physical skills.

edit :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_(character_class
) (hot link wasn't working, so just copy all including the parentheses)
also,
Rogue
...sounds a lot like our thieves

Just because I have the skill to speak Spanish, doesn't make me Spanish. Yes, Thieves has skills of Rogues, but that doesn't make them Rogues.

Another thing, since you like referincing GW1 as a foundation to stand, check out this mesmer skill and the related ones:
Arcane Larceny
and from GW2
Arcane Thievery
let's not forget mesmers today use stealth, and according to you that's a product of shadow magic.

You're confused and dishonest.

If you review my post, I never said that the source of stealth is exclusive to Shadow Magic.

Rather I said, Engineer uses tools (e.g. gyro) to go in stealth, Ranger uses camo, Mesmer uses Illusion Magic, and Thief uses Shadow magic.

Further proof that you really do have reading comprehension problem.

Magic thieves already existed and still exist in the game today. We know them as mesmers.

Wrong. No matter how many times you try, the fact is, Mesmer uses Chaos magic and Thief uses Shadow magic. That is the fact.

You're not only being dishonest about my position, you're also being dishonest about the Thief and the Mesmer.

one more thing
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thief
"While being a confirmed reworking of the original assassin
with no lore parallels between the two
, the thief was the second profession unveiled not to be in the original Guild Wars."

Well, that is so freaking obvious. No one is making a parallel of the two profession. That is your failed attempt to misrepresent my position again.

"Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadowstepping to surprise and to get close to their target. They're deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom."
If you compare that to the thief archetype, it's curiously similar.....

Yet again you're confused. Compare thief to a thief? What? Of course they will be similar, they are both thief.

However
I will concede that I can see how a magic using thief could be successful based on core traits if it is geared towards damage, but as a support the core traits of thief will not lend to nor bolster a support spec that would be competitive in any sense of the game.

There is more to being support that just healing and protection.

Example: Having a friend hold your target in place so you can punch the target unhindered is a very good support skill.

No different that the Thief immobilizing the target so that your team can spike the target is an effective support skill that is often overlooked.

Where does it say what type of magic each class uses exclusively?

You are making up rules to suit your claims. The only person here that is dishonest is you.

So, your idea of support thief is just another type of +1ing....lmao.

The mesmers "steal", they use stealth. The use trickery and illusions. They are arcane. They are duelists. They are magic thieves, and originally "magic" thieves.

Even the description of the mesmer and their skills are closer to what you conjured up on page one then GW2 thief is lmao.

Accoriding to this description https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/mesmer/

"Mesmers are magical duelists who wield deception as a weapon. Using powerful illusions, clones, and phantasmal magic to ensure that their enemies can’t believe their own eyes, mesmers tip the balance of every fight in their favor."

hmmm....that's not chaos magic....hmmmmmm

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

"Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which makes them very hard to hit."

what magic?

I look at the lore on wiki, and the official site. Not really adding up to YOUR claims. I could go into the books if we need to.

Crab Fear.1624 · November 5, 2018

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@Crab Fear.1624 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Anyone who argues that Thief is like a Rogue does not fully understand how Guild Wars really works. The best tank in GW1 is a 55 monk. The best healer in GW1 is debatable between the Monk and the Elementalist. The best elemental caster is the uninterruptible Fast Casting Mesmers. Assassins that uses a sword and a shield and never equip a weapon skill instead casting spells. So on and so fort. This is the identity of Guild Wars and redefining it to look like any other MMO makes GW lose its identity.
The Thief is not a Rogue, it never was. Thief specializes in stealing, not brawling, sniping, or assassinating. The sooner that the Thief gets back into focusing in stealing, the better.

from the wiki that I linked earlier.

"The Thief, Burglar, Scoundrel, or Rogue is a character class in many role-playing games, including Dungeons & Dragons, Final Fantasy, World of Warcraft and many MMORPGs. Thieves are usually stealthy and dexterous characters able to disarm traps, pick locks, spy on foes, and perform backstabs from hiding. "

a good chunk of the gaming community, and not just GW2, agrees with Redline and my definition of thief...they are rogues.

lol..

they are the same thing

Jack Redline.5379 · November 6, 2018

..........................

Jack Redline.5379 · November 6, 2018

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

Thank you very much. I simply couldnt deal with him anymore. I am not best at self-control when i see someone like this constantly sending bs like this and i didnt want to get banned so i quit it. Thank you for dealing with this further. I would send a man of culture but it just copies the link :)

freedomtolove.5476 · November 6, 2018

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:Anyone who argues that Thief is like a Rogue does not fully understand how Guild Wars really works. The best tank in GW1 is a 55 monk.Not even close.

Sir Vincent III.1286 · November 6, 2018

@getalifeturd.8139 said:
@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:Anyone who argues that Thief is like a Rogue does not fully understand how Guild Wars really works. The best tank in GW1 is a 55 monk.Not even close.

Yup, not even close since 55 monk don't even need items.

Sir Vincent III.1286 · November 6, 2018

@Crab Fear.1624 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@Crab Fear.1624 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Anyone who argues that Thief is like a Rogue does not fully understand how Guild Wars really works. The best tank in GW1 is a 55 monk. The best healer in GW1 is debatable between the Monk and the Elementalist. The best elemental caster is the uninterruptible Fast Casting Mesmers. Assassins that uses a sword and a shield and never equip a weapon skill instead casting spells. So on and so fort. This is the identity of Guild Wars and redefining it to look like any other MMO makes GW lose its identity.
The Thief is not a Rogue, it never was. Thief specializes in stealing, not brawling, sniping, or assassinating. The sooner that the Thief gets back into focusing in stealing, the better.