Thief Changes 12/11/18

[Bern.9613]

@Turk.5460 said:

Nothing should be able to 1vX and kill equally skilled opponents.

And yet pretty much all the other classes do.

@Turk.5460 said:

I'm sorry that you believe resetting is your only ticket to winning a duel. It seems as though you're the one who needs some practice if you can't win any duels without getting scared and resetting. :3

Alrighty Obi wan, show us padiwans.

[Turk.5460]

@Bern.9613 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

Nothing should be able to 1vX

and kill

equally skilled opponents.

And yet pretty much all the other classes do.

@Turk.5460 said:

I'm sorry that you believe resetting is your only ticket to winning a duel. It seems as though

you're

the one who needs some practice if you can't win any duels without getting scared and resetting. :3

Alrighty Obi wan, show us padiwans.

Where is the R E S E T

[Derenaya.3479]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Bern.9613 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

Nothing should be able to 1vX

and kill

equally skilled opponents.

And yet pretty much all the other classes do.

@Turk.5460 said:

I'm sorry that you believe resetting is your only ticket to winning a duel. It seems as though

you're

the one who needs some practice if you can't win any duels without getting scared and resetting. :3

Alrighty Obi wan, show us padiwans.

Where is the R E S E T

WvW sure because you actually do damage there, not in sPvP tho.

[Turk.5460]

@Derenaya.3479 said:WvW sure because you actually do damage there, not in sPvP tho.

Please read 3 posts before yours. Better yet, please read the contextual helping quotes in the post you responded to. For the third time in this thread, I am referring to WvW. And context from what @Bern.9613 appears to show him talking about activities that happen mainly in WvW. Duels, 1vX, sustain, TARGET PAINTER, etc...wow.

But sure, lets entertain your sPvP orientation for a moment. Who duels in sPvP? Who resets and comes right back to a duel in sPvP? Maybe I don't remember correctly, but doesn't it take MUCH longer to exit combat in sPvP?

[Derenaya.3479]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Derenaya.3479 said:WvW sure because you actually do damage there, not in sPvP tho.

Please read 3 posts before yours. Better yet, please read the contextual helping quotes in the post you responded to. For the

third time in this thread

, I am referring to WvW. And context from what @Bern.9613 appears to show him talking about activities that happen mainly in WvW. Duels, 1vX, sustain, TARGET PAINTER, etc...wow.

But sure, lets entertain your sPvP orientation for a moment. Who duels in sPvP? Who resets and comes right back to a duel in sPvP? Maybe I don't remember correctly, but doesn't it take MUCH longer to exit combat in sPvP?

I know you‘re talking about WvW here but I just wanted to mention that you deal way less damage in sPvP, and sPvP is the gamemode that the majority of player here talk about. So of course everyone‘s gonna dissagree with you when you come here and talk about WvW damage while most player talk about sPvP.

And I‘m not sure what you‘re trying to tell me with you questions but what ever. As for who‘s duelling, Spellbreaker, Mesmer, Holosmith, Boonbest etc. but for sure not thief. And I can‘t answer your last question since I didn‘t play much WvW yet.

[bq pd.2148]

@Derenaya.3479 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Derenaya.3479 said:WvW sure because you actually do damage there, not in sPvP tho.

Please read 3 posts before yours. Better yet, please read the contextual helping quotes in the post you responded to. For the

third time in this thread

, I am referring to WvW. And context from what @Bern.9613 appears to show him talking about activities that happen mainly in WvW. Duels, 1vX, sustain, TARGET PAINTER, etc...wow.

But sure, lets entertain your sPvP orientation for a moment. Who duels in sPvP? Who resets and comes right back to a duel in sPvP? Maybe I don't remember correctly, but doesn't it take MUCH longer to exit combat in sPvP?

I know you‘re talking about WvW here but I just wanted to mention that you deal way less damage in sPvP, and sPvP is the gamemode that the majority of player here talk about. So of course everyone‘s gonna dissagree with you when you come here and talk about WvW damage while most player talk about sPvP.

And I‘m not sure what you‘re trying to tell me with you questions but what ever. As for who‘s duelling, Spellbreaker, Mesmer, Holosmith, Boonbest etc. but for sure not thief. And I can‘t answer your last question since I didn‘t play much WvW yet.

if you havent played much wvw yet, how do you know sutain is not also much higher in WvW ?

[Derenaya.3479]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Derenaya.3479 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Derenaya.3479 said:WvW sure because you actually do damage there, not in sPvP tho.

Please read 3 posts before yours. Better yet, please read the contextual helping quotes in the post you responded to. For the

third time in this thread

, I am referring to WvW. And context from what @Bern.9613 appears to show him talking about activities that happen mainly in WvW. Duels, 1vX, sustain, TARGET PAINTER, etc...wow.

But sure, lets entertain your sPvP orientation for a moment. Who duels in sPvP? Who resets and comes right back to a duel in sPvP? Maybe I don't remember correctly, but doesn't it take MUCH longer to exit combat in sPvP?

I know you‘re talking about WvW here but I just wanted to mention that you deal way less damage in sPvP, and sPvP is the gamemode that the majority of player here talk about. So of course everyone‘s gonna dissagree with you when you come here and talk about WvW damage while most player talk about sPvP.

And I‘m not sure what you‘re trying to tell me with you questions but what ever. As for who‘s duelling, Spellbreaker, Mesmer, Holosmith, Boonbest etc. but for sure not thief. And I can‘t answer your last question since I didn‘t play much WvW yet.

if you havent played much wvw yet, how do you know sutain is not also much higher in WvW ?

Well I did play some, just not that much. The damage is actually insane, like everything can kill you instantly. And then there‘s videos, like I watch Noody and he just autoattack + steal and the enemy looses like 40-50% life.

[Bern.9613]

To actually get a 1 burst kill is rare because players use evades etc as soon as mark hits them. That said, I'm out of this conversation as mudse and turk are far better then any of us and it's their way or the highway. In before lock

[bq pd.2148]

@Derenaya.3479 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Derenaya.3479 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Derenaya.3479 said:WvW sure because you actually do damage there, not in sPvP tho.

Please read 3 posts before yours. Better yet, please read the contextual helping quotes in the post you responded to. For the

third time in this thread

, I am referring to WvW. And context from what @Bern.9613 appears to show him talking about activities that happen mainly in WvW. Duels, 1vX, sustain, TARGET PAINTER, etc...wow.

But sure, lets entertain your sPvP orientation for a moment. Who duels in sPvP? Who resets and comes right back to a duel in sPvP? Maybe I don't remember correctly, but doesn't it take MUCH longer to exit combat in sPvP?

I know you‘re talking about WvW here but I just wanted to mention that you deal way less damage in sPvP, and sPvP is the gamemode that the majority of player here talk about. So of course everyone‘s gonna dissagree with you when you come here and talk about WvW damage while most player talk about sPvP.

And I‘m not sure what you‘re trying to tell me with you questions but what ever. As for who‘s duelling, Spellbreaker, Mesmer, Holosmith, Boonbest etc. but for sure not thief. And I can‘t answer your last question since I didn‘t play much WvW yet.

if you havent played much wvw yet, how do you know sutain is not also much higher in WvW ?

Well I did play some, just not that much. The damage is actually insane, like everything can kill you instantly. And then there‘s videos, like I watch Noody and he just autoattack + steal and the enemy looses like 40-50% life.

well that indeed can happen, its more that the extremes in both are higher. wich means for example earlier i fought against a holo + minstrel fb, the damage they can soak up is insane, i was able to kill them but not in a time appropriate for spvp and only because..well they were not really experienced.

[Turk.5460]

@Bern.9613 said:To actually get a 1 burst kill is rare because players use evades etc as soon as mark hits them. That said, I'm out of this conversation as mudse and turk are far better then any of us and it's their way or the highway. In before lock

@"MUDse.7623" and I play very differently. Though I can assure you that the 1 "burst" kill is not rare at all. Provided your enemy has less than 17k hp and is not equipped with toughness, they are literally one shot by backstab. Mudse can probably provide you with many clips of 1shots. I'm pretty sure I only have one saved since I dont often play that build anymore, and even better, it's from another player's perspective. May you please point out at what point they were supposed to dodge?

https://clips.twitch.tv/SneakyIgnorantWheelWTRuck

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Lmao yeah I’ve down slot of people 1v1 without reset in wvw,so what? Still remains the fact thief is known as a +1 and not dueler from yrs of nerfs which has turned it into what it is now,instead of fixing it arenet changed their description in a post know sayin that it is meant to be +1 even tho that contradicts its ingame description. Fact remains every other clas has a advantage in a straight on fight, thief has the least sustain yet doesn’t hit any harder and doesn’t have all the blocks,invulnerability and such more of the sustain classes do, doesn’t mean you won’t win somtimes tho lol so thanks for the vid

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I don’t play thief and u saying what ur saying makes me think u really don’t and ur trolling and if u actually do than enjoy ur thief professions as it is then lol I’ll stick to other classes and maybe see ya out there :)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I played thief thru story and both expansion and was a blast,after about 4 months of trying pvp and wvw just found other classes more effective so maybe I just never got good at it lol

[Gatvin.6510]

@Turk.5460 said:

@"Gatvin.6510" said:...Rather than ineffectually pestering people and occasionally getting lucky.

I wouldn't call 4k crits from Skirmisher's shot ineffectual. Nor 10k Pistol Whips. DJ hardly holds the identity of Thief Rifle, it was only made the focus by the players because they thought that they should focus on it...

Pistol Whip is fine, no complaints there. There's a LOT of viable thief stuff. I was just talking about rifle.I think there's some nuance around DJ being defining for rifle. Its certainly not as essential as I felt it was (I still have a lot of getting good to do), but an unblockable skill is nothing to sneeze at either, especially when its almost on-demand. I like the ability to actively play against my opponents skills, and the unblockable bit gave me a lot of options I didn't have before. Now I don't have those options, so the weapon feels more like other classes ranged weapons, so it loses SOME amount of identity by losing unblockable. Obviously it has zero impact on classes that don't do blocking regularly, so functionally no change in a fair number of circumstances. If I were to pick one thing that really defined rifle, it would be the dodge-into stealth mechanic. DJ was cool though.

Thinking about it, a lot of my experience being "ineffectual" comes from trying to use rifle in a zerg. 4k isn't a lot when your max 5 targets have constant barriers and heals. There's so many targets I have trouble figuring out what to hit unless the lead throws a target on someone. I've got no skills to use when they call bomb on something, half the time my shots hit something other than what I have targeted, anti-projectile is everywhere, and if my target moves back into the center of the group, I can't really chase them. These are the circumstance when if I kill someone, it feels like I got lucky. Does anyone have tips for rifle in a zerg? Or should I just give up on that?

Also, thanks for posting those dueling videos. I'm certainly going to try fooling around with shadowstep more.

Still no idea what to do against Mesmers though, but that's mostly because I suck at the targeting minigame, not because any particular class is bad/good.

[Klypto.1703]

Im waiting for someone to show me their first Deadly Arts, Acrobatic, Deadeye build that uses all of those power and precision traits. Then a core thief build using crit strikes instead of deadeye to a similar degree of the changes where you have passing crit chance and power bonuses and just wack and slash at your target healing yourself. I could be wrong though and it be the most terrible idea ever for a thief but my brain keeps getting melted by sentries and them marking my skull.

[Turk.5460]

@"Gatvin.6510" said:Thinking about it, a lot of my experience being "ineffectual" comes from trying to use rifle in a zerg. 4k isn't a lot when your max 5 targets have constant barriers and heals. There's so many targets I have trouble figuring out what to hit unless the lead throws a target on someone. I've got no skills to use when they call bomb on something, half the time my shots hit something other than what I have targeted, anti-projectile is everywhere, and if my target moves back into the center of the group, I can't really chase them. These are the circumstance when if I kill someone, it feels like I got lucky. Does anyone have tips for rifle in a zerg? Or should I just give up on that?

Give up on being any iteration of Thief in a zerg. Our only "bomb" is Vault, which has a built in punish frame and comes with the fact that you're a Thief, one of the most vulnerable and (unwarranted now) squishy targets in the game.

Thief used to have higher burst and sustained damage than most professions due to lack of hp, armor, stab, defensive boons. Now we mostly still don't have any of those defenses, but Anet brought almost every other profession to our level of damage. Professions that have almost equal mobility and far better defenses, and much less reliance on offensive stats...