It's time for the hammer, Anet!

[DaShi.1368]

@dronte.3416 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:I honestly didn't even know where to start with mirage....so I just left it out altogether.Even tho I actually believe power chrono / mirage are more of an issue than the condi version atm.I am just wondering what the actual issue is with power mesmer builds, as they have been hit by nerfs harder than condi mirages for the past few months (except the last update)

Complaining about them allows other classes to avoid attention.

[Quadox.7834]

Hah, you make a decent OP and rest assued, people jump in instantly to fucking defend their mains.

The only problem with OP is that the nerfs don't go far enough. Look at how scepter mes was nerfed last patch and apply that to 60% of all traits in the game and we might be closer.

P.S. if you want mesmer in your list, the nerfs chould be: mantras, confounding suggestions, chaotic dampening, chaotic dampening prot, chronophantasma,

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:You missed the part where you should have explained why a 20% nerf and a ICD increase of 2 seconds (as proposed by OP) would make it "useless". Bearing in mind you still have the condi damage reduction part of the trait too.

I usually don't like to think for other people, but halving the barrier gain would

most likely

make people take kinetic stabilizers instead. at this point, whatever though ya know.

OH NO!!!! OTHER TRAITS WOULD BECOME VIABLE IF THIS ONE OVERTUNED TRAIT IS NERFED. BUILD DIVERSITY IS THE WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME.

in case you haven't checked, the other two trait choices suck. destroying one of the best gm traits on a build is a pretty backwards way of creating build diversity.while we're at it lets nerf burst mastery, improvisation, and reapers onslaught. they are all clearly over performing.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:You missed the part where you should have explained why a 20% nerf and a ICD increase of 2 seconds (as proposed by OP) would make it "useless". Bearing in mind you still have the condi damage reduction part of the trait too.

I usually don't like to think for other people, but halving the barrier gain would

most likely

make people take kinetic stabilizers instead. at this point, whatever though ya know.

OH NO!!!! OTHER TRAITS WOULD BECOME VIABLE IF THIS ONE OVERTUNED TRAIT IS NERFED. BUILD DIVERSITY IS THE WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME.

in case you haven't checked, the other two trait choices suck. destroying one of the best gm traits on a build is a pretty backwards way of creating build diversity.while we're at it lets nerf burst mastery, improvisation, and reapers onslaught. they are all clearly over performing.

Traits that provides % damage reduction on condition damage outright shouldn't exist. Otherwise there is no point in condition damage as a unique damage type that ignores armor at the expense of both taking longer for its damage to roll outand providing a window to be negated completely with cleanses.

[mortrialus.3062]

I'd recommend heavily nerfing the healing from Holosmiths Heat Therapy.

[crepuscular.9047]

@Zenix.6198 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:I think this is missing something.

Starts with an M.

Tastes like cheese.

Maybe im to confused....

It torments me alot that i cant find the name.

I honestly didn't even know where to start with mirage....so I just left it out altogether.Even tho I actually believe power chrono / mirage are more of an issue than the condi version atm.

cos the entire thing is broken asf beyond human comprehension :lol:

[mortrialus.3062]

@DaShi.1368 said:

@dronte.3416 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:I honestly didn't even know where to start with mirage....so I just left it out altogether.Even tho I actually believe power chrono / mirage are more of an issue than the condi version atm.I am just wondering what the actual issue is with power mesmer builds, as they have been hit by nerfs harder than condi mirages for the past few months (except the last update)

Complaining about them allows other classes to avoid attention.

I love how the past year everyone talked about how awful condi mirage was, how op it was, how braindead the build was, and pointed towards power mesmer as a better more fair build that took actual skill to use.

Until the second they nerfed condimirage to the point where power is stronger in ranked and MATs and a majority of mesmers started running power. Then its so OP no one knows where to start.

[titibalbon.7495]

Just don't nerf mesmers. Everything else is fine. I'd rather mesmers be top dog again.

[verskore.4312]

"SIck'em (Shout): Reduced the bonus dmg of this skill to 20% (from 40%). (and dont tell me core specs will mind, cause they dont use this anyway)"; u would nerf by 20% and give unstoppable union only 3 unblockable attacks? u must be joking right? might aswell throw GS/LB slb in the garbage. What a joke lolJust standing behind something completely nullifies the entire LB burst or just go up close and stand behind him, invu, dodge.The burst is soo ez counterred

[Quadox.7834]

@"verskore.4312" said:"SIck'em (Shout): Reduced the bonus dmg of this skill to 20% (from 40%). (and dont tell me core specs will mind, cause they dont use this anyway)"; u would nerf by 20% and give unstoppable union only 3 unblockable attacks? u must be joking right? might aswell throw GS/LB slb in the garbage. What a joke lolJust standing behind something completely nullifies the entire LB burst or just go up close and stand behind him, invu, dodge.The burst is soo ez counterred

jUsT DOdGe 4Head

[Quadox.7834]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Meteor.3720 said:You missed the part where you should have explained why a 20% nerf and a ICD increase of 2 seconds (as proposed by OP) would make it "useless". Bearing in mind you still have the condi damage reduction part of the trait too.

I usually don't like to think for other people, but halving the barrier gain would

most likely

make people take kinetic stabilizers instead. at this point, whatever though ya know.

OH NO!!!! OTHER TRAITS WOULD BECOME VIABLE IF THIS ONE OVERTUNED TRAIT IS NERFED. BUILD DIVERSITY IS THE WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME.

in case you haven't checked, the other two trait choices suck. destroying one of the best gm traits on a build is a pretty backwards way of creating build diversity.while we're at it lets nerf burst mastery, improvisation, and reapers onslaught. they are all clearly over performing.

I don't know warrior well enough but there is certainly an argument for nerfing reaper's onslaught and improvisation. I love how, in being sarcastic, you were sort of correct.

(And kinetic stabilizers is not that bad of a trait on its own).

[Quadox.7834]

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:no to adaptive armor change. that nerf would make it useless, besides the other nerfs would bring scrapper to an even less op level of bunker.unfortunately I think fb powercreep is necessary since everything else is buffed to the high heavens.

What do you mean by "fb powercreep is necessary" and "would bring scrapper to an even less op level of bunker". Did your eyes home in on your main and ignore the purpose of the OP? Because I feel like you are missing the entire point of the post, which is to nerf everything.

[melandru.3876]

lol warrior and these so called "many damage modifiers"

10% from peak performance requires the use of an elite skill 72 sec cd (and the skills inside said elite skill), or bulls charge 24 sec cd3% from warriors sprint10% from usinga burst kill, and actually landing it on your target (it can proc on ranger pets, mesmer clones,. etc etc making it completly useless)

how is that alot?

meanwhile there are classes with a single (unblockable) skill from range 2000 that grant +40%

[sephiroth.4217]

Why you gotta suggest Ele nerfs that effect core builds and Tempest builds but not suggest anything to Scourge or Mirage?

Why I ask, why? Eles dont need nerfs, we either need buffs or every other class brought down to our level lol

Also a fat no to reworks, its a class I enjoy for fun, not because of PvP viability at rank 5 or ATs.

We also need bug fixes, Tempest is bugged and barely playable atm.

[Quadox.7834]

@"melandru.3876" said:lol warrior and these so called "many damage modifiers"

10% from peak performance requires the use of an elite skill 72 sec cd (and the skills inside said elite skill), or bulls charge 24 sec cd3% from warriors sprint10% from usinga burst kill, and actually landing it on your target (it can proc on ranger pets, mesmer clones,. etc etc making it completly useless)

how is that alot?I think he included might and +power in that (which aren't multipliers but the at the end of the day result in the same thing: more damage).

meanwhile there are classes with a single (unblockable) skill from range 2000 that grant +40%No, there aren't "classes" with that, there is ONE class. Very important distinction. And he literally proposed to nerf that specific skill in this very thread that you are commenting on.

I swear people's perceptions just home in on their main and ignore literally everything else, completely regardless of what is being said. It is actually impressive.

[Zenix.6198]

Basically what @"Quadox.7834" said

I mean....I expected to step on a lot of toes with this, but I would like to implore people to actually take a look at the bigger picture here.If we manage to bring down EVERY class in a (somewhat) equally manner, intra-class power levels wont really be affected.Therefor the whole "But what about x/y/z"-argument isn't a valid comment.

I also don't mean to imply that my propositions are the "be-all-end-all" of balance suggestions....This is a discussion after all.All I did was trying to highlight the core-issues of certain specs and their unhealthy mechanics.

Revenants running around with 25 might + 100% cirtchance and multiple dmg modifiers is an issue.Warriors being able to stack an extra 1400 power in addition to multiple modifiers (Burst Mastery, MBT, Peak Performance) is an issue.Soulbeasts being able to 100-0 someone from 1.5k range is an issue.etc. etc.

"just dodge 4Head" isn't a valid argument at some point any longer.Especially considering HOW many skills you'd actually have to "just dodge".

[melandru.3876]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:lol warrior and these so called "many damage modifiers"

10% from peak performance requires the use of an elite skill 72 sec cd (and the skills inside said elite skill), or bulls charge 24 sec cd3% from warriors sprint10% from usinga burst kill, and actually landing it on your target (it can proc on ranger pets, mesmer clones,. etc etc making it completly useless)

how is that alot?I think he included might and +power in that (which aren't multipliers but the at the end of the day result in the same thing: more damage).

meanwhile there are classes with a single (unblockable) skill from range 2000 that grant +40%No, there aren't "classes" with that, there is

ONE

class. Very important distinction. And he literally proposed to nerf that specific skill

in this very thread

that you are commenting on.

I swear people's perceptions just home in on their main and ignore literally everything else, completely regardless of what is being said. It is actually impressive.

reaper can cap 25 might itselfsoulbeast can cap 25 might itselfpower mirage can cap 25 might itselfholo can cap 25 might itselfspellbreaker can cap 25 might itselfherald can cap 25 might itself

but yes lets nerf all the duelists/dps specs so fb+scourge which has been meta and dominating since pof release, becomes even stronger /s

some people....

OP claims spellbreaker to have all the offense, and defense yet is clueless about the actual build. spellbreaker doesn't run defense for howlong now? anyone?no double endure pain (not even a single endure pain) no stability, no adrenal health, no shield reflects/20% cooldown reduction..nothing

the build is full offensive, this might surprise you but don't you think it's normal for a full offensive build to deal, well higher damage then non-full offensive builds?

the build is kept alive by rampage, shake it off and might makes right (magebane tether) alter any of those 3 and warrior has a insane large chance to fall off the "useful boat"

then we can work together with weavers, who currently have no place in the meta and try to nerf everything to our standards

in a year or 2 (howlong did the d/d cele ele last? and yes it also had 25 might)

[Zenix.6198]

@melandru.3876 said:

OP claims spellbreaker to have all the offense, and defense yet is clueless about the actual build. spellbreaker doesn't run defense for howlong now? anyone?no double endure pain (not even a single endure pain) no stability, no adrenal health, no shield reflects/20% cooldown reduction..nothing

the build is full offensive, this might surprise you but don't you think it's normal for a full offensive build to deal, well higher damage then non-full offensive builds?

What?I suggest you to read my OP again, if that is what you think I said there.

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

a second long i thought you mean the weapon.

the most problem of every mmo is to get the burst out of the PvP. Its nice in PvE, because its fun, but not good for PvP

[Quadox.7834]

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@melandru.3876 said:lol warrior and these so called "many damage modifiers"

10% from peak performance requires the use of an elite skill 72 sec cd (and the skills inside said elite skill), or bulls charge 24 sec cd3% from warriors sprint10% from usinga burst kill, and actually landing it on your target (it can proc on ranger pets, mesmer clones,. etc etc making it completly useless)

how is that alot?I think he included might and +power in that (which aren't multipliers but the at the end of the day result in the same thing: more damage).

meanwhile there are classes with a single (unblockable) skill from range 2000 that grant +40%No, there aren't "classes" with that, there is

ONE

class. Very important distinction. And he literally proposed to nerf that specific skill

in this very thread

that you are commenting on.

I swear people's perceptions just home in on their main and ignore literally everything else, completely regardless of what is being said. It is actually impressive.

reaper can cap 25 might itselfsoulbeast can cap 25 might itselfpower mirage can cap 25 might itselfholo can cap 25 might itselfspellbreaker can cap 25 might itselfherald can cap 25 might itself

but yes lets nerf all the duelists/dps specs so fb+scourge which has been meta and dominating since pof release, becomes even stronger /s

some people....Can you actually read the OP for once, he said that those builds also need nerfs but he doesn't know enough about those classes to make suggestions.

OP claims spellbreaker to have all the offense, and defense yet is clueless about the actual build. spellbreaker doesn't run defense for howlong now? anyone?no double endure pain (not even a single endure pain) no stability, no adrenal health, no shield reflects/20% cooldown reduction..nothing

the build is full offensive, this might surprise you but don't you think it's normal for a full offensive build to deal, well higher damage then non-full offensive builds?

the build is kept alive by rampage, shake it off and might makes right (magebane tether) alter any of those 3 and warrior has a insane large chance to fall off the "useful boat"

then we can work together with weavers, who currently have no place in the meta and try to nerf everything to our standards

in a year or 2 (howlong did the d/d cele ele last? and yes it also had 25 might)You are ignoring the fact that the other duelists

also

get nerfs. Again.

Let me two questions (if you wish, exclude only warrior from this hypothetical, in order to remove bias):Is there a lot of powercreep in the game?Should some of the powercreep be reduced ideally?

[melandru.3876]

@Zenix.6198 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:

OP claims spellbreaker to have all the offense, and defense yet is clueless about the actual build. spellbreaker doesn't run defense for howlong now? anyone?no double endure pain (not even a single endure pain) no stability, no adrenal health, no shield reflects/20% cooldown reduction..nothing

the build is full offensive, this might surprise you but don't you think it's normal for a full offensive build to deal, well higher damage then non-full offensive builds?

What?I suggest you to read my OP again, if that is what you think I said there.

i suggest you to read my last line, in your quote.

does it surprise you that a build designed for damage, and damage alone..deals damage?

4.20 min +, take some lessons from a good weaver how to deal with spellbreaker and rampage

[melandru.3876]

@Quadox.7834 said:he said that those builds also need nerfs but he doesn't know enough about those classes.

deleted everything but the essential

balance with zero knowledge, i'm sure that will work out (and totally not biased towards weaver)

time to let yet another thread die out

[mortrialus.3062]

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@melandru.3876 said:lol warrior and these so called "many damage modifiers"

10% from peak performance requires the use of an elite skill 72 sec cd (and the skills inside said elite skill), or bulls charge 24 sec cd3% from warriors sprint10% from usinga burst kill, and actually landing it on your target (it can proc on ranger pets, mesmer clones,. etc etc making it completly useless)

how is that alot?I think he included might and +power in that (which aren't multipliers but the at the end of the day result in the same thing: more damage).

meanwhile there are classes with a single (unblockable) skill from range 2000 that grant +40%No, there aren't "classes" with that, there is

ONE

class. Very important distinction. And he literally proposed to nerf that specific skill

in this very thread

that you are commenting on.

I swear people's perceptions just home in on their main and ignore literally everything else, completely regardless of what is being said. It is actually impressive.

reaper can cap 25 might itselfsoulbeast can cap 25 might itselfpower mirage can cap 25 might itselfholo can cap 25 might itselfspellbreaker can cap 25 might itselfherald can cap 25 might itself

but yes lets nerf all the duelists/dps specs so fb+scourge which has been meta and dominating since pof release, becomes even stronger /s

some people....

OP claims spellbreaker to have all the offense, and defense yet is clueless about the actual build. spellbreaker doesn't run defense for howlong now? anyone?no double endure pain (not even a single endure pain) no stability, no adrenal health, no shield reflects/20% cooldown reduction..nothing

the build is full offensive, this might surprise you but don't you think it's normal for a full offensive build to deal, well higher damage then non-full offensive builds?

the build is kept alive by rampage, shake it off and might makes right (magebane tether) alter any of those 3 and warrior has a

insane large chance to fall off the "useful boat"

lol. No. That's not even remotely in danger of happening.

[Quadox.7834]

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:he said that those builds also need nerfs but he doesn't know enough about those classes.

deleted everything but the essential

balance with zero knowledge, i'm sure that will work out (and totally not biased towards weaver)

time to let yet another thread die out

Holy shit are you ridiculous.

First of all, you are basically saying that anyone who makes a thread must know, play and be experienced on every single class in the game. Just a stupid idea. Why don't you contribute and make the suggestions yourself instead of crying?

Second of all, is it not better that he recognises his imperfect knowledge and doesn't claim to make any end-all-be-all suggestions? Apparently you somehow see this as a fault.

P.S.

Let me two questions (if you wish, exclude only warrior from this hypothetical, in order to remove bias):Is there a lot of powercreep in the game?Should some of the powercreep be reduced ideally?

[melandru.3876]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:he said that those builds also need nerfs but he doesn't know enough about those classes.

deleted everything but the essential

balance with zero knowledge, i'm sure that will work out (and totally not biased towards weaver)

time to let yet another thread die out

Holy kitten are you ridiculous.

First of all, you are basically saying that anyone who makes a thread must know, play and be experienced on every single class in the game. Just a stupid idea. Why don't you contribute and make the suggestions yourself instead of crying?

Second of all, is it not better that he recognises his imperfect knowledge and doesn't claim to make any end-all-be-all suggestions? Apparently you somehow see this as a fault.

P.S.

Let me two questions (if you wish, exclude only warrior from this hypothetical, in order to remove bias):Is there a lot of powercreep in the game?Should some of the powercreep be reduced ideally?

you are biased towards powercreep, but surprise surprise powercreep is not only offensive (like OP thinks it is)bunker meta, is also powercreep, how fun was that right bunker this, bunker that needing 3 guys to kill 1 guy was deffo well balanced

the most sick aspect in the game currently is fb+scourge.every game (serious game not some gold rank trollfest) has 1 fb and 1 scourge on each side. somethimes even 2 scourges

the duelist has a wide range of options (spellbreaker, boonbeast, holo, scrapper, heraldthe decapper has 2 options (thief, and to some degree mesmer)

and isn't it obvious that in order to understand what is going on, you need to actually understand what's going on?

else the suggestion thread becomes a complain thread, which this exactly is.

"i play weaver, we in bad spot instead of trying to improve weaver(do they really need improvements tho, i have played together with cellofrag 2 weeks ago both in pvp and wvw as he was on our server link, and i can tell you that in actual good hands weaver is a monster, in bad hands...forum-material) they want to scale things down to average-player level