Can GS/Staff mesmer work?

[Creaitov.6328]

Lately I've been trying different builds in WvW and one of them is PU power core mesmer with GS/Sword/X, and I must say that staff looks really tempting for the secondary weapon set. If we compare what each weapon can do we have:

Main Hand:

• Scepter: lol
• Sword: 1s evade and an immob. Kinda useless for combat though since staying in melee a lot of the time is a death sentence.

Off Hand:

• Torch: stealth on 30s cd and a meh phantasm.
• Focus: the infamous pull :scream: , projectile hate and a phantasm that deals ok damage.
• Pistol: ok ranged damage and a pretty good CC. Works better as a condi/hybrid weapon imo.
• Sword: a 1 time block/daze and a hard hitting phantasm. Good for damage but really lacking on defense/CC.

and then we have Staff, with a nice low cd blink for kiting, 2 phantasms that apply vuln (and cleanse 2 condis with inspiration), chaos armor (that gives protection when traited) and chaos storm, one of the best stomp/ress denials in the game. Only problem is the lack of damage but for defense and utility it looks like a really good option.

Personally I'm going to try it next time I play WvW. Build would look something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQJARWnsIClphNqBWoBcrhlTDxc3wZkBWU4sa0mA-jVSBQBEZ/hMq87BXAAA8AAwwRAYDHCg/q+jJVCiHdBkBQfMA-w

On an unrelated note, mass invis feels really good after the buff. Not only it helps you get some breathing room mid-fight, it also allows some pretty crazy stuff when you're in a group lol, be it random ambushes, ninja revives or just a safe escape from an angry zerg. I like it.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Some years ago the meta was staff gs ranged shatter.Now with the power creep of some other professions will it work? Probably not.

[Flandre.2870]

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[Quadox.7834]

@Flandre.2870 said:Satff is purely defensive and GS is purely offensive. Prolly the worst weapon combo you can pull off actually

Well it was used at the top level in the past, but I agree that it doesn't work anymore. And I've desperately tried multiple times, as it is my favourite weapon combo :|

[Me Games Ma.8426]

It is pretty much what others have said so far. When you're playing aggressively and burned through your GS cooldown you can no longer pressure aside from the autoattack. Same for defense as soon as you burned all your defensive options you're basically naked or swap to GS which doesn't help in any way.On power shatter I currently prefer Gs+Sw/X X being Torch on PU, Focus in Zergs or Pistol on Interrupt builds.

However you have correctly pointed out the main problem mesmer has atm. We have loads of good offhand weapons but our mainhand options are not on par with that.

• Sword has been nerfed too many times.
• Scepter is still clunky and needs a rework rather than adjusting numbers.

I'd love them bringing both mainhand weapons to a 2019 level of design.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Flandre.2870 said:Satff is purely defensive and GS is purely offensive. Prolly the worst weapon combo you can pull off actually

Well it was used at the top level in the past, but I agree that it doesn't work anymore. And I've desperately tried multiple times, as it is my favourite weapon combo :|That top level would probably have killed any target regardless of weapon.

Anyway, the main problem is that the staff is so, so very slow for power and in turn GS is useless for condi. Celestial is no longer a thing, most swing power. Having the element of surprise with a torch before swapping to GS is generally the better option.

Perhaps the new mass invis can somewhat make up for the torch... But then you wont have jaunt. Could pick chrono, but then you really want the shield.

[Curunen.8729]

We going back to double ranged now?

[viquing.8254]

I tested it since last patch and scepter nerf :

Problem is that torch is mandatory to survive in many fight :

• You can't kite a thief under perma speed + teleport with only staff.
• You can't kite a rev under perma speed + teleport with only staff.
• You can't kite a holo under perma speed + gap closer with only staff.
• You can possibily kite a war depending on vertical staff2 kite but you can't fight them in point and can't pressure enough them to do something with only staff/gs.
• You can't kite a ranger and his spec under perma speed + ranged attacks + teleport with only staff.
• You can't pressure enough most of remaining class with only GS.

Combined to that :

• Staff/gs attacks synergize bad to stealth utilitary. (mean if you use SoM and a clone is going to shatter from range or a staff auto is in process...)
• You haven't block/evade from 2 secpter/3 sword => staff tempo is less reliable when you want to counter an ennmy burst.

So no a staff/GS build isn't viable beacuse to remuse what I said : staff sustain alone isn't good and GS damage alone isn't good so you have a bad damage, bad sustain build.

[Quadox.7834]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Flandre.2870 said:Satff is purely defensive and GS is purely offensive. Prolly the worst weapon combo you can pull off actually

Well it was used at the top level in the past, but I agree that it doesn't work anymore. And I've desperately tried multiple times, as it is my favourite weapon combo :|That top level would probably have killed any target regardless of weapon.You misunderstand me I think, gs/staff was used in tournaments (high level 5v5), as meta for mesmer. See: the oldest video on thelordhelseth youtube channel as an example of gameplay if you weren't around then.

This was a time when classes didn't have infinite sustain so the damage was enough.

Anyway, the main problem is that the staff is so, so very slow for power and in turn GS is useless for condi. Celestial is no longer a thing, most swing power. Having the element of surprise with a torch before swapping to GS is generally the better option.

Perhaps the new mass invis can somewhat make up for the torch... But then you wont have jaunt. Could pick chrono, but then you really want the shield.

[Quadox.7834]

@Curunen.8729 said:We going back to double ranged now?

I wish!

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Flandre.2870 said:Satff is purely defensive and GS is purely offensive. Prolly the worst weapon combo you can pull off actually

Well it was used at the top level in the past, but I agree that it doesn't work anymore. And I've desperately tried multiple times, as it is my favourite weapon combo :|That top level would probably have killed any target regardless of weapon.You misunderstand me I think, gs/staff was used in tournaments (high level 5v5), as meta for mesmer. See: the oldest video on thelordhelseth youtube channel as an example of gameplay if you weren't around then.

This was a time when classes didn't have infinite sustain so the damage was enough.

Anyway, the main problem is that the staff is so, so very slow for power and in turn GS is useless for condi. Celestial is no longer a thing, most swing power. Having the element of surprise with a torch before swapping to GS is generally the better option.

Perhaps the new mass invis can somewhat make up for the torch... But then you wont have jaunt. Could pick chrono, but then you really want the shield.

You're right. It was meta at that time.Every top mesmer used ranged shatter.

[viquing.8254]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@"Flandre.2870" said:Satff is purely defensive and GS is purely offensive. Prolly the worst weapon combo you can pull off actually

Well it was used at the top level in the past, but I agree that it doesn't work anymore. And I've desperately tried multiple times, as it is my favourite weapon combo :|That top level would probably have killed any target regardless of weapon.You misunderstand me I think, gs/staff was used in tournaments (high level 5v5), as meta for mesmer. See: the oldest video on thelordhelseth youtube channel as an example of gameplay if you weren't around then.

This was a time when classes didn't have infinite sustain so the damage was enough.

Anyway, the main problem is that the staff is so, so very slow for power and in turn GS is useless for condi. Celestial is no longer a thing, most swing power. Having the element of surprise with a torch before swapping to GS is generally the better option.

Perhaps the new mass invis can somewhat make up for the torch... But then you wont have jaunt. Could pick chrono, but then you really want the shield.

You're right. It was meta at that time.Every top mesmer used ranged shatter.Hmmm, mesmer wasn't meta at that time and "every top mesmer" = a very few handful of players who had to be babysitted by their team to be efficient and who were humanly unbearable for most of them...And even at that time, sword/x,staff shatter was more used than gs/staff.Sometimes it's usefull to add details.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@"Flandre.2870" said:Satff is purely defensive and GS is purely offensive. Prolly the worst weapon combo you can pull off actually

Well it was used at the top level in the past, but I agree that it doesn't work anymore. And I've desperately tried multiple times, as it is my favourite weapon combo :|That top level would probably have killed any target regardless of weapon.You misunderstand me I think, gs/staff was used in tournaments (high level 5v5), as meta for mesmer. See: the oldest video on thelordhelseth youtube channel as an example of gameplay if you weren't around then.

This was a time when classes didn't have infinite sustain so the damage was enough.

Anyway, the main problem is that the staff is so, so very slow for power and in turn GS is useless for condi. Celestial is no longer a thing, most swing power. Having the element of surprise with a torch before swapping to GS is generally the better option.

Perhaps the new mass invis can somewhat make up for the torch... But then you wont have jaunt. Could pick chrono, but then you really want the shield.

You're right. It was meta at that time.Every top mesmer used ranged shatter.Hmmm, mesmer wasn't meta at that time and "every top mesmer" = a very few handful of players who had to be babysitted by their team to be efficient and who were humanly unbearable for most of them...And even at that time, sword/x,staff shatter was more used than gs/staff.Sometimes it's usefull to add details.

Not really. It depends on mesmer. I faced azani from MiM at that time and the dude was wrecking everyone and he wasn't even close to be the best mesmer.

[Quadox.7834]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@"Flandre.2870" said:Satff is purely defensive and GS is purely offensive. Prolly the worst weapon combo you can pull off actually

Well it was used at the top level in the past, but I agree that it doesn't work anymore. And I've desperately tried multiple times, as it is my favourite weapon combo :|That top level would probably have killed any target regardless of weapon.You misunderstand me I think, gs/staff was used in tournaments (high level 5v5), as meta for mesmer. See: the oldest video on thelordhelseth youtube channel as an example of gameplay if you weren't around then.

This was a time when classes didn't have infinite sustain so the damage was enough.

Anyway, the main problem is that the staff is so, so very slow for power and in turn GS is useless for condi. Celestial is no longer a thing, most swing power. Having the element of surprise with a torch before swapping to GS is generally the better option.

Perhaps the new mass invis can somewhat make up for the torch... But then you wont have jaunt. Could pick chrono, but then you really want the shield.

You're right. It was meta at that time.Every top mesmer used ranged shatter.Hmmm, mesmer wasn't meta at that time and "every top mesmer" = a very few handful of players who had to be babysitted by their team to be efficient and who were humanly unbearable for most of them...And even at that time, sword/x,staff shatter was more used than gs/staff.Sometimes it's usefull to add details.

Not really. It depends on mesmer. I faced azani from MiM at that time and the dude was wrecking everyone and he wasn't even close to be the best mesmer.

Yeah iirc helseth, drazeh, misha, sensotix, azani, probably some more I forgot.

[Safandula.8723]

U basicly start on staff, and when opponenents see ur condi, u suddenly 1 shot them with gs. I got cheesed with it once

[whoknocks.4935]

As someone said staff is purely defensive, greatsword is purely offensive, so the combo doesn't work greatly against good players.

Anyway going full grieving stats (power prec fero condi) on mirage you add a great condi output damage on staff too that allow you to play offensively while being defensive at the same time and that build definitely works running chaos duel mirage.

On core you might make it work too, but it's harder against the powercreep 2 braincells specs like holos, soulbeasts or spellbreakers.

Full grieving adventurer runes, or change the runes to earth durability if you want more sustain and you feel you die a lot especially in outnumbers.