Delete ALL stealth or balance the field

[Burnfall.9573]

@cobbah.3102 said:About time stealth was deleted or stopped being perma it is beyond ridiculous or give every character stealth or removal. This game has turned into a mess and not close to being balanced forget the Gem store and balance WvW Thank You

+1

[Jski.6180]

Or make stealth counters in the game real aoe stealth counters that are unblock-able. As well as give classes who have no stealth counters real counters (ele the only class in the game defind by what it lacks then what it has).

Also remove sustain of all types from stealth comply.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Delete blocks and invulnerability along with invisibility

[Androx.8572]

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Androx.8572 said:Not a single person likes losing, specially if they feel they have put too much on their character.Stealth is not stupid , it is a skill which has pros and cons.What I think , is that player who dont stealth need to TRAIN to have a good strategy versus people who stealth.Change your strategy , and you might find it easier, because after all , characters who use stealth are ultra squishy.xoxo

Enumerate the cons to stealth.

Well :1- One either uses skills and combos to stealth , or to attack ; cant have both.2- Stealth becomes our only defense since we are squishy , having to rely on that is not that satisfying.3-If outnumbered and want to capture points , sometimes being in stealth dont help capturing because in order to cap , you need not to be in stealth.4-Unfortunatley , its a mechanic that can be interrupted or lifted by dispell.5-Stealth is not a damage feature , which brings back to number 1 , you either attack full dps , or stealth , cant have both.

[Androx.8572]

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Androx.8572 said:Not a single person likes losing, specially if they feel they have put too much on their character.Stealth is not stupid , it is a skill which has pros and cons.What I think , is that player who dont stealth need to TRAIN to have a good strategy versus people who stealth.Change your strategy , and you might find it easier, because after all , characters who use stealth are ultra squishy.xoxo

Sadly the characters, that tend to have stealth might be ultra-squishy, but at the same time they are also ultra-mobile, because stealth alone doesn't win the game. What I typically see happening is that the stealthers attack and if the attack doesn't pay off as intended, they stealth and gtfo with no chance of catching up - unless you are also on one of those ultra-mobile classes.I am sure counterplay against that is possible, but it's not easy at all. You can try to stunlock or CC your opponent, but if you mess up once, it's typically over. No chance to catch up then.

Yeah , Stealth is cool and uncool. We all have encountered tanks that have so much sustain that any given second can outburst us with 2 skills.

[Mikkel.8427]

@cobbah.3102 said:Well they do add new stuff to Gem Store to balance the fashion wars I guess

Fashion is THE most important part of any build...Do you know how many times I've gotten killed because of a poor choice of shoulder armor or rushed dye job?I was dueling a friend last weekend and got bursted down then needed to excuse myself because mid-fight the light hit my boots in just the right way for me to notice the gold I chose for the straps was several shades lighter than the etching on my armor.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Mikkel.8427 said:

@cobbah.3102 said:Well they do add new stuff to Gem Store to balance the fashion wars I guess

Fashion is THE most important part of any build...Do you know how many times I've gotten killed because of a poor choice of shoulder armor or rushed dye job?I was dueling a friend last weekend and got bursted down then needed to excuse myself because mid-fight the light hit my boots in just the right way for me to notice the gold I chose for the straps was several shades lighter than the etching on my armor.

Many have fallen from such mistakes

[Kaiser.9873]

@Androx.8572 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Androx.8572 said:Not a single person likes losing, specially if they feel they have put too much on their character.Stealth is not stupid , it is a skill which has pros and cons.What I think , is that player who dont stealth need to TRAIN to have a good strategy versus people who stealth.Change your strategy , and you might find it easier, because after all , characters who use stealth are ultra squishy.xoxo

Enumerate the cons to stealth.

Well :1- One either uses skills and combos to stealth , or to attack ; cant have both.2- Stealth becomes our only defense since we are squishy , having to rely on that is not that satisfying.3-If outnumbered and want to capture points , sometimes being in stealth dont help capturing because in order to cap , you need not to be in stealth.4-Unfortunatley , its a mechanic that can be interrupted or lifted by dispell.5-Stealth is not a damage feature , which brings back to number 1 , you either attack full dps , or stealth , cant have both.

These aren't really cons; they are choices made by players on which direction to take with their characters.

1. DE's up until recently were able to perma-stealth and backstab for over 15K damage regularly.
2. May not be satisfying, but it is very effective.
3. True, but if in danger you can pop stealth to get away/attack. Either way if there's someone contesting you aren't capping it anyway,
4. WoD can be interrupted, as can many/most other mechanics that players use.
5. Can't build a tank with high DPS either, once again a choice to be made.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Androx.8572 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Androx.8572 said:Not a single person likes losing, specially if they feel they have put too much on their character.Stealth is not stupid , it is a skill which has pros and cons.What I think , is that player who dont stealth need to TRAIN to have a good strategy versus people who stealth.Change your strategy , and you might find it easier, because after all , characters who use stealth are ultra squishy.xoxo

Enumerate the cons to stealth.

Well :1- One either uses skills and combos to stealth , or to attack ; cant have both.2- Stealth becomes our only defense since we are squishy , having to rely on that is not that satisfying.3-If outnumbered and want to capture points , sometimes being in stealth dont help capturing because in order to cap , you need not to be in stealth.4-Unfortunatley , its a mechanic that can be interrupted or lifted by dispell.5-Stealth is not a damage feature , which brings back to number 1 , you either attack full dps , or stealth , cant have both.

These aren't really cons; they are choices made by players on which direction to take with their characters.

1. DE's up until recently were able to perma-stealth and backstab for over 15K damage regularly.
2. May not be satisfying, but it is very effective.
3. True, but if in danger you can pop stealth to get away/attack. Either way if there's someone contesting you aren't capping it anyway,
4. WoD can be interrupted, as can many/most other mechanics that players use.
5. Can't build a tank with high DPS either, once again a choice to be made.

No con? How about relying on stealth which is a clunky mechanic nowadays to survive as no DE builds sustain out of stealth. I'd say that not a choice but a con. DE build deversity is low already due to its reliance on one mechanic, removing mechanic would then leave DE where? Class along with thief would have to be rebuilt from the ground up. If that happened nothing would chang cuz if anet wanted to keep the fast mobile squishy archetype than I'd have to have a faster ttk ratio to make up for now lack of stealth and only having evades for sustain or I'd have zero chance against another class on a fight, especially with the state classes are in today. Then people would still complain as the always do about being out played by a class they kno is far squishier than their class. They'd rally for nerfs and eventually anet listens and nerfs their dps to the point their almost useless in a 1v1 and get stuck back to decapping, so why bother removing stealth? lolIt's also weird DE presence isn't stronger in conquest given stealth zero cons.

[Androx.8572]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Androx.8572 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Androx.8572 said:Not a single person likes losing, specially if they feel they have put too much on their character.Stealth is not stupid , it is a skill which has pros and cons.What I think , is that player who dont stealth need to TRAIN to have a good strategy versus people who stealth.Change your strategy , and you might find it easier, because after all , characters who use stealth are ultra squishy.xoxo

Enumerate the cons to stealth.

Well :1- One either uses skills and combos to stealth , or to attack ; cant have both.2- Stealth becomes our only defense since we are squishy , having to rely on that is not that satisfying.3-If outnumbered and want to capture points , sometimes being in stealth dont help capturing because in order to cap , you need not to be in stealth.4-Unfortunatley , its a mechanic that can be interrupted or lifted by dispell.5-Stealth is not a damage feature , which brings back to number 1 , you either attack full dps , or stealth , cant have both.

These aren't really cons; they are choices made by players on which direction to take with their characters.

1. DE's up until recently were able to perma-stealth and backstab for over 15K damage regularly.
2. May not be satisfying, but it is very effective.
3. True, but if in danger you can pop stealth to get away/attack. Either way if there's someone contesting you aren't capping it anyway,
4. WoD can be interrupted, as can many/most other mechanics that players use.
5. Can't build a tank with high DPS either, once again a choice to be made.

No con? How about relying on stealth which is a clunky mechanic nowadays to survive as no DE builds sustain out of stealth. I'd say that not a choice but a con. DE build deversity is low already due to its reliance on one mechanic, removing mechanic would then leave DE where? Class along with thief would have to be rebuilt from the ground up. If that happened nothing would chang cuz if anet wanted to keep the fast mobile squishy archetype than I'd have to have a faster ttk ratio to make up for now lack of stealth and only having evades for sustain or I'd have zero chance against another class on a fight, especially with the state classes are in today. Then people would still complain as the always do about being out played by a class they kno is far squishier than their class. They'd rally for nerfs and eventually anet listens and nerfs their dps to the point their almost useless in a 1v1 and get stuck back to decapping, so why bother removing stealth? lolIt's also weird DE presence isn't stronger in conquest given stealth zero cons.

I get your point because I also play other classes that have nothing to do with thief play. But also as a thief I ask of you: What class do you play? , and Have you ever played thief and its specialies? , When you do , you will realize that stealth is as fair for thief , like full counter to spellbreaker , like that much block for guardians and such and such.And I dont mean to be rude because thats not the point, but I have to admit I didnt like thief at first being used to other classes , and I lost all the time until I got better. I dont think you will like playing on that edge.

So to be fair about Thief players including myself: I belive that if you get killed by thiefs whatever the spec , it is fairly just because the player really has hand and finger and eye skills man. Playing thief is awesome when you have that much skill on your hands , really its amazing how much concentration and intelligence thief players put on their games and strategy not to die from 2 skills and overcome.

Try it yourself.

Regards

[Androx.8572]

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Androx.8572 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@Androx.8572 said:Not a single person likes losing, specially if they feel they have put too much on their character.Stealth is not stupid , it is a skill which has pros and cons.What I think , is that player who dont stealth need to TRAIN to have a good strategy versus people who stealth.Change your strategy , and you might find it easier, because after all , characters who use stealth are ultra squishy.xoxo

Enumerate the cons to stealth.

Well :1- One either uses skills and combos to stealth , or to attack ; cant have both.2- Stealth becomes our only defense since we are squishy , having to rely on that is not that satisfying.3-If outnumbered and want to capture points , sometimes being in stealth dont help capturing because in order to cap , you need not to be in stealth.4-Unfortunatley , its a mechanic that can be interrupted or lifted by dispell.5-Stealth is not a damage feature , which brings back to number 1 , you either attack full dps , or stealth , cant have both.

These aren't really cons; they are choices made by players on which direction to take with their characters.

1. DE's up until recently were able to perma-stealth and backstab for over 15K damage regularly.
2. May not be satisfying, but it is very effective.
3. True, but if in danger you can pop stealth to get away/attack. Either way if there's someone contesting you aren't capping it anyway,
4. WoD can be interrupted, as can many/most other mechanics that players use.
5. Can't build a tank with high DPS either, once again a choice to be made.

I cant disagree.I think there are no guides towards face a thief and win. Like there is no guides for becoming the best thief ever in a second.Its all hand skills and how much you train your fingers and mouse and buttons and all that , timing is essencial and being able to see and foreseee your enemy moves before they hit .Thats my humble opinion in any class , any case scenario.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

oh yeah, backstack out of stealth needs so much skill...

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:oh yeah, backstack out of stealth needs so much skill...

As all the insane bursts from other classes do? U kno were talking gw2 right?

[Zexanima.7851]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:oh yeah, backstack out of stealth needs so much skill...

It does when you're trying to stab something like a holosmith that's leaping, AoE CCing, and just generally blasting out shit constantly around it. It's not like people just stand there and take it.

[GaijinGuy.8476]

Wow, there is so much L2P in this thread.All I see is "I suck too much to deal with thieves and mesmers but I don't wanna try get better or use the numerous counters available to me. Just delete it already ... but don't do anything that would effect my profession".It can be gimmicky but it is counter-able. Also, as many have stated, I'd also be open to the removal of stealth but this would require re-work of classes, namely thief, whose survivability was build around this mechanic. Changes like a whole trait line dedicated to stealth. That's 15 traits right there to rework which is only the tip of the ice-berg.OP clearly has no idea of what "deleting stealth" entails. Hence why people are suggesting that you learn to play as an over haul like this is not gonna happen anytime soon (they did say they would look at overhauling core-professions but I highly doubt they will "delete stealth").

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:oh yeah, backstack out of stealth needs so much skill...

It does when you're trying to stab something like a holosmith that's leaping, AoE CCing, and just generally blasting out kitten constantly around it. It's not like people just stand there and take it.

Unfortunately it seems like many of these people do just stand there are take it. I made a thief because I saw how amazing stealth was and thought, "Wow, this could be so easy to kill people!" ... Boy was I wrong. To take someone down quickly you gotta build glassy. If someone even sneezes in your general direction you are gonna die as a thief. Make one mistake in your rotation and you're dead. You have to have extremely quick reflexes and be able to predict a players actions. So much skill goes into landing these burst rotations. (and low pings which I do not have /cry).

Ok, got the frustration out. Have a nice day everyone!

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Mikkel.8427 said:Fashion is THE most important part of any build...Do you know how many times I've gotten killed because of a poor choice of shoulder armor or rushed dye job?I was dueling a friend last weekend and got bursted down then needed to excuse myself because mid-fight the light hit my boots in just the right way for me to notice the gold I chose for the straps was several shades lighter than the etching on my armor.

Is that why people rage at me when I look like a clown? I think it brought out their bloodlust.

[Androx.8572]

@"GaijinGuy.8476" said:Wow, there is so much L2P in this thread.All I see is "I suck too much to deal with thieves and mesmers but I don't wanna try get better or use the numerous counters available to me. Just delete it already ... but don't do anything that would effect my profession".It can be gimmicky but it is counter-able. Also, as many have stated, I'd also be open to the removal of stealth but this would require re-work of classes, namely thief, whose survivability was build around this mechanic. Changes like a whole trait line dedicated to stealth. That's 15 traits right there to rework which is only the tip of the ice-berg.OP clearly has no idea of what "deleting stealth" entails. Hence why people are suggesting that you learn to play as an over haul like this is not gonna happen anytime soon (they did say they would look at overhauling core-professions but I highly doubt they will "delete stealth").

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:oh yeah, backstack out of stealth needs so much skill...

It does when you're trying to stab something like a holosmith that's leaping, AoE CCing, and just generally blasting out kitten constantly around it. It's not like people just stand there and take it.

Unfortunately it seems like many of these people do just stand there are take it. I made a thief because I saw how amazing stealth was and thought, "Wow, this could be so easy to kill people!" ... Boy was I wrong. To take someone down quickly you gotta build glassy. If someone even sneezes in your general direction you are gonna die as a thief. Make one mistake in your rotation and you're dead. You have to have extremely quick reflexes and be able to predict a players actions. So much skill goes into landing these burst rotations. (and low pings which I do not have /cry).

Ok, got the frustration out. Have a nice day everyone!

Aye =), xoxo.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Delete blocks and invulnerability along with invisibility

Yeah, people forget that just because they are bad at anticipating opponents in stealth does't stop you from hitting them (cleave, AoE). Stealth does not stop damage at all, only breaks targeting.

Warriors with a full 40 second chain of block block block invulnerable invulnerable block invulnerable block block block invulnerable invulnerable block invulnerable block block block invulnerable invulnerable block invulnerableblock block block invulnerable invulnerable block invulnerable is fine though it seems.