sephiroth.4217 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 @Jayden Reese.9542 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash. Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win. Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block. What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.15 bucks for 2 packs of cigs? is it that cheap in America?1 pack of smokes is $48.50 where I am.Im guessing you must personally know the poster you're responding too because not everyone is a home owner or old enough to rent which is what you're implying over ISP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 @Jayden Reese.9542 said:@sephiroth.4217 said:@Jayden Reese.9542 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash. Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win. Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block. What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.15 bucks for 2 packs of cigs? is it that cheap in America?1 pack of smokes is $48.50 where I am.Im guessing you must personally know the poster you're responding too because not everyone is a home owner or old enough to rent which is what you're implying over ISP.Yeah and unless you know him you are just speculating as well. It's 15 bucs and you had like 4 years since PoF release to get that 15 bucs. And 48.50 is insane.I dont know him which is why im asking you because you seem to know.$48.50 is a cheap pack otherwise $78 roughly for a big pack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 In Aus the cigs are expensive, even just a pack. It started going crazy like late 90s I think. The net there is expensive and shoddy too. As well as games (and electronics) lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 @Jayden Reese.9542 said:@sephiroth.4217 said:@Jayden Reese.9542 said:@sephiroth.4217 said:@Jayden Reese.9542 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash. Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win. Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block. What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.15 bucks for 2 packs of cigs? is it that cheap in America?1 pack of smokes is $48.50 where I am.Im guessing you must personally know the poster you're responding too because not everyone is a home owner or old enough to rent which is what you're implying over ISP.Yeah and unless you know him you are just speculating as well. It's 15 bucs and you had like 4 years since PoF release to get that 15 bucs. And 48.50 is insane.I dont know him which is why im asking you because you seem to know.$48.50 is a cheap pack otherwise $78 roughly for a big pack...Are you thinking carton? Like a pack is just 20 cigs. A carton is 10 packs of 20 cigs. this is loose tobacco... the cheap stuff.I wasnt even talking about tailored lolthats so much more expensive cartons are about $250 or so depending on brand.its hard to scrap up spare money for a game with addictions like that... Internet where I am is $89 a month and electricity and gas is about $200 a month ontop of rent which is $1710 a month... then theres house hold items and feeding a family and supplying money for thier hobbies and such.point being that not everyone who is an adult has the spare money to buy themselves PoF or even thier child for the sake of evening the playing field in WvW.. that cost far outweighs the purpose.as an adult with a child, If i buy her a game and it requires more money for her to have an equal chance with other players I simply say too bad play another game.So when it comes to PvP games, I prefer no pay to win mechanics. I like knowing that I beat someone out of skill and not because im financially secure.The bonus thing for Anet is... if they ever give WvW rentals then non-pof users could not only have equal opportunities like everyone else but they could encourage sales after users feel how great it is to mount around, maybe they could even sell skins to those who just prefer to rent. Thats a renewable income source... user buys a skin while renting then is forced to keep paying for rents on the skin or to remove ongoing costs by purchasing PoF.it opens doors to making more money for Anet and it evens the field for all players, if you ask me... thats a win win for both players and Anet.Im not sure why I laid that out... thier marketing manager probably gets paid enough to come up with these ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I can remember when smokers were complaining that cigarettes were starting to creep up over $2/pack . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Yeah these days in some places in the world the cost of living really shot up through the roof, even the irl qol things. I'm glad I don't smoke anymore, for both health and money purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 @Jayden Reese.9542 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash. Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win. Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block. What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.Price is irrelevant. I have the expansion. Like I keep saying like a broken record player. If handing a company additional cash (aside from buying the game which is a necessity) gives you an advantage over other players then it is pay to win.1 cent 100 dollars doesn't matter. I gave anet an addition $15 on top of the base game. A player who hasn't given anet $15 will be easier for me to defeat due to the specs that they don't have access to and the mount. I have the advantaged because i PAYED $15 therefore when I beat that player using PAYED content only, I'm using PAY 2 WIN because I PAYED and they didn't.How is this so hard for people to understand. If anet released new Armour that had a 5% stat increase over ascended and it only cost 50 cents, then its a pay to win mechanic. Price is irrelevant. The fact that you need to pay irl money to have an advantage over players who don't is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 @Doug.4930 said:@Jayden Reese.9542 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash. Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win. Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block. What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.aside from buying the game which is a necessityWell there you go . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 @Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Jayden Reese.9542 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash. Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win. Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block. What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.aside from buying the game which is a necessityWell there you go . . .Nice strawman argument. After all its not like pay to play and pay to win are separate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 @Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Jayden Reese.9542 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash. Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win. Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block. What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.aside from buying the game which is a necessityWell there you go . . .Nice strawman argument. After all its not like pay to play and pay to win are separate things. It's your argument lol, you've just come around to my way of thinking . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 @Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Jayden Reese.9542 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash. Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win. Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block. What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.aside from buying the game which is a necessityWell there you go . . .Nice strawman argument. After all its not like pay to play and pay to win are separate things. It's your argument lol, you've just come around to my way of thinking . . .You'll have to dress up your bait a bit better than that ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 @Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Jayden Reese.9542 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash. Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win. Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block. What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.aside from buying the game which is a necessityWell there you go . . .Nice strawman argument. After all its not like pay to play and pay to win are separate things. It's your argument lol, you've just come around to my way of thinking . . .You'll have to dress up your bait a bit better than that ;)As long as you've come to agree that purchasing the game is not p2w, we agree, no need to argue further . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyspit.3965 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 @Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Jayden Reese.9542 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash. Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win. Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block. What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.aside from buying the game which is a necessityWell there you go . . .Nice strawman argument. After all its not like pay to play and pay to win are separate things. It's your argument lol, you've just come around to my way of thinking . . .You'll have to dress up your bait a bit better than that ;)As long as you've come to agree that purchasing the game is not p2w, we agree, no need to argue further . . .So out of curiosity, if ANET made in mandatory for players to have POF installed in order to log in to PvP and WvW, would that mean it no longer would be considered P2W? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 @Turkeyspit.3965 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Jayden Reese.9542 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash. Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win. Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block. What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.aside from buying the game which is a necessityWell there you go . . .Nice strawman argument. After all its not like pay to play and pay to win are separate things. It's your argument lol, you've just come around to my way of thinking . . .You'll have to dress up your bait a bit better than that ;)As long as you've come to agree that purchasing the game is not p2w, we agree, no need to argue further . . .So out of curiosity, if ANET made in mandatory for players to have POF installed in order to log in to PvP and WvW, would that mean it no longer would be considered P2W?Well it's not p2w now lol . . .But yes this is another great example of why it is impt to read the posts in a thread before posting . . : @Gop.8713 said:So you're saying the problem is that anet offers a free to play option. I can see that, like they could block everyone from competitive modes until they have updated to the latest version, same as when you're blocked on patch day until you patch. From my perspective the free to play option is still desirable, if only bc offering something for nothing is always desirable. But ppl are different . . .I have reconsidered one point though. I argued that giving the game away for free isn't a viable business plan, but I don't actually have the numbers to support that. Anet has already gone free to play on vanilla, and included the first expansion with purchase of the second. I don't believe more expansions are in the future so who's to say they won't go full free to play and just make their money off microtransactions? Only anet really has the information necessary to determine if that is feasible . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 @Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Jayden Reese.9542 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash. Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win. Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block. What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.aside from buying the game which is a necessityWell there you go . . .Nice strawman argument. After all its not like pay to play and pay to win are separate things. It's your argument lol, you've just come around to my way of thinking . . .You'll have to dress up your bait a bit better than that ;)As long as you've come to agree that purchasing the game is not p2w, we agree, no need to argue further . . .So just so i can understand how your logic works, If anet released a new equipment tier that was above ascended and legendary that gave you a 50% increase in stats and the only way to acquire it was to purchase it with real world money, would you not see this as pay to win simply because people had to buy the game with real world money beforehand? Because thats what you're saying right? I can't tell if you really believe what you're saying or if you're just stirring the pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XECOR.2814 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 They just made ganking worse. And lets be real thats all that its going to be used for. It wad made for gankers who are not that good of a player to 1v1 or go in pvp but good enough to kill someone 3v1 or hit and run on a cheese build. There is no other scenario where it is used and imo is unhealthy for the game but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 @Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Jayden Reese.9542 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash. Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win. Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block. What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.aside from buying the game which is a necessityWell there you go . . .Nice strawman argument. After all its not like pay to play and pay to win are separate things. It's your argument lol, you've just come around to my way of thinking . . .You'll have to dress up your bait a bit better than that ;)As long as you've come to agree that purchasing the game is not p2w, we agree, no need to argue further . . .So just so i can understand how your logic works, If anet released a new equipment tier that was above ascended and legendary that gave you a 50% increase in stats and the only way to acquire it was to purchase it with real world money, would you not see this as pay to win simply because people had to buy the game with real world money beforehand? Because thats what you're saying right? I can't tell if you really believe what you're saying or if you're just stirring the pot. No, and I don't really understand how you could draw that conclusion? I've done nothing but buy the game, and I have access to everything it has to offer, excepting the cosmetic and convenience items to be had from the gem store. Which I guess technically I could just buy with gold anyway. Your example seems completely out of left field and not comparable to anything that exists in the game . . ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 @Gop.8713 said:No, and I don't really understand how you could draw that conclusion?Because you said this:@Gop.8713 said:As long as you've come to agree that purchasing the game is not p2w, we agree, no need to argue further . . .This statement implies that my arguments about the xpacs being pay 2 win are invalid because initially we all had to buy the game. @Gop.8713 said:I've done nothing but buy the game, and I have access to everything it has to offer, excepting the cosmetic and convenience items to be had from the gem store. Which I guess technically I could just buy with gold anyway. Your example seems completely out of left field and not comparable to anything that exists in the game . . ?So lets compare the two examples.Situation A: The xpacs give a huge player advantage because the PoF elite specs are just better than all core and HoT specs. Also mounts. It requires players to buy it with irl money in this case $15. Therefore its pay 2 win.Situation B: The new armour tier gives a huge player advantage because the stats from the new gear are just better than all core and HoT tiers. It requires players to buy it with irl money in this case $15. Therefore its pay 2 win.Both Situation A and situation B both involve additional and OPTIONAL purchases that give players who spend the EXTRA money an advantage over those who don't.So far your only refute to this logic is because the base game was payed, then nothing else after it can be pay to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 @Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:No, and I don't really understand how you could draw that conclusion?Because you said this:@Gop.8713 said:As long as you've come to agree that purchasing the game is not p2w, we agree, no need to argue further . . .This statement implies that my arguments about the xpacs being pay 2 win are invalid because initially we all had to buy the game. @Gop.8713 said:I've done nothing but buy the game, and I have access to everything it has to offer, excepting the cosmetic and convenience items to be had from the gem store. Which I guess technically I could just buy with gold anyway. Your example seems completely out of left field and not comparable to anything that exists in the game . . ?So lets compare the two examples.Situation A: The xpacs give a huge player advantage because the PoF elite specs are just better than all core and HoT specs. Also mounts. It requires players to buy it with irl money in this case $15. Therefore its pay 2 win.Situation B: The new armour tier gives a huge player advantage because the stats from the new gear are just better than all core and HoT tiers. It requires players to buy it with irl money in this case $15. Therefore its pay 2 win.Both Situation A and situation B both involve additional and OPTIONAL purchases that give players who spend the EXTRA money an advantage over those who don't.So far your only refute to this logic is because the base game was payed, then nothing else after it can be pay to win.Ah, the expansions are the game. I see your confusion now. So you are in fact arguing that being forced to buy the game to gain access to its features is p2w, and yes I do disagree with you . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 @Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:No, and I don't really understand how you could draw that conclusion?Because you said this:@Gop.8713 said:As long as you've come to agree that purchasing the game is not p2w, we agree, no need to argue further . . .This statement implies that my arguments about the xpacs being pay 2 win are invalid because initially we all had to buy the game. @Gop.8713 said:I've done nothing but buy the game, and I have access to everything it has to offer, excepting the cosmetic and convenience items to be had from the gem store. Which I guess technically I could just buy with gold anyway. Your example seems completely out of left field and not comparable to anything that exists in the game . . ?So lets compare the two examples.Situation A: The xpacs give a huge player advantage because the PoF elite specs are just better than all core and HoT specs. Also mounts. It requires players to buy it with irl money in this case $15. Therefore its pay 2 win.Situation B: The new armour tier gives a huge player advantage because the stats from the new gear are just better than all core and HoT tiers. It requires players to buy it with irl money in this case $15. Therefore its pay 2 win.Both Situation A and situation B both involve additional and OPTIONAL purchases that give players who spend the EXTRA money an advantage over those who don't.So far your only refute to this logic is because the base game was payed, then nothing else after it can be pay to win.Ah, the expansions are the game. I see your confusion now. So you are in fact arguing that being forced to buy the game to gain access to its features is p2w, and yes I do disagree with you . . .The expansions are not the game. They are DLC. They are optional purchases. The game was released on the 28th of august 2012. All post releases of that game are DLC and not the game. A game is bought once. The moment you give players the ability to gain inherent advantages over their fellow players through OPTIONAL DLC purchases then the game has pay 2 win elements. Because those who pay are more likely to win. Those who bought PoF are more likely to win over those who have not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 @Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:No, and I don't really understand how you could draw that conclusion?Because you said this:@Gop.8713 said:As long as you've come to agree that purchasing the game is not p2w, we agree, no need to argue further . . .This statement implies that my arguments about the xpacs being pay 2 win are invalid because initially we all had to buy the game. @Gop.8713 said:I've done nothing but buy the game, and I have access to everything it has to offer, excepting the cosmetic and convenience items to be had from the gem store. Which I guess technically I could just buy with gold anyway. Your example seems completely out of left field and not comparable to anything that exists in the game . . ?So lets compare the two examples.Situation A: The xpacs give a huge player advantage because the PoF elite specs are just better than all core and HoT specs. Also mounts. It requires players to buy it with irl money in this case $15. Therefore its pay 2 win.Situation B: The new armour tier gives a huge player advantage because the stats from the new gear are just better than all core and HoT tiers. It requires players to buy it with irl money in this case $15. Therefore its pay 2 win.Both Situation A and situation B both involve additional and OPTIONAL purchases that give players who spend the EXTRA money an advantage over those who don't.So far your only refute to this logic is because the base game was payed, then nothing else after it can be pay to win.Ah, the expansions are the game. I see your confusion now. So you are in fact arguing that being forced to buy the game to gain access to its features is p2w, and yes I do disagree with you . . .The expansions are not the game. They are DLC. They are optional purchases. The game was released on the 28th of august 2012. All post releases of that game are DLC and not the game. A game is bought once. The moment you give players the ability to gain inherent advantages over their fellow players through OPTIONAL DLC purchases then the game has pay 2 win elements. Because those who pay are more likely to win. Those who bought PoF are more likely to win over those who have not. By that logic 'the game', as you choose to misidentify it, closed to new players with the release of HoT. I hadn't realized that was such a sad day. I feel fortunate to have gotten in under the wire there. I wonder what all of those other ppl have been playing all this time . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 @"XECOR.2814" said:They just made ganking worse. And lets be real thats all that its going to be used for. It wad made for gankers who are not that good of a player to 1v1 or go in pvp but good enough to kill someone 3v1 or hit and run on a cheese build. There is no other scenario where it is used and imo is unhealthy for the game but whatever.it favors numbers pure and simple. "gankers" are at the bottom of the food chain.think about it... 3v1 is nothing compared too 20v2... atleast the 3v1 has a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 @Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:No, and I don't really understand how you could draw that conclusion?Because you said this:@Gop.8713 said:As long as you've come to agree that purchasing the game is not p2w, we agree, no need to argue further . . .This statement implies that my arguments about the xpacs being pay 2 win are invalid because initially we all had to buy the game. @Gop.8713 said:I've done nothing but buy the game, and I have access to everything it has to offer, excepting the cosmetic and convenience items to be had from the gem store. Which I guess technically I could just buy with gold anyway. Your example seems completely out of left field and not comparable to anything that exists in the game . . ?So lets compare the two examples.Situation A: The xpacs give a huge player advantage because the PoF elite specs are just better than all core and HoT specs. Also mounts. It requires players to buy it with irl money in this case $15. Therefore its pay 2 win.Situation B: The new armour tier gives a huge player advantage because the stats from the new gear are just better than all core and HoT tiers. It requires players to buy it with irl money in this case $15. Therefore its pay 2 win.Both Situation A and situation B both involve additional and OPTIONAL purchases that give players who spend the EXTRA money an advantage over those who don't.So far your only refute to this logic is because the base game was payed, then nothing else after it can be pay to win.Ah, the expansions are the game. I see your confusion now. So you are in fact arguing that being forced to buy the game to gain access to its features is p2w, and yes I do disagree with you . . .The expansions are not the game. They are DLC. They are optional purchases. The game was released on the 28th of august 2012. All post releases of that game are DLC and not the game. A game is bought once. The moment you give players the ability to gain inherent advantages over their fellow players through OPTIONAL DLC purchases then the game has pay 2 win elements. Because those who pay are more likely to win. Those who bought PoF are more likely to win over those who have not. let him believe what he wants to believe.. he's either stirrin ya up or doesn't have the mindset to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XECOR.2814 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 @sephiroth.4217 said:@"XECOR.2814" said:They just made ganking worse. And lets be real thats all that its going to be used for. It wad made for gankers who are not that good of a player to 1v1 or go in pvp but good enough to kill someone 3v1 or hit and run on a cheese build. There is no other scenario where it is used and imo is unhealthy for the game but whatever.it favors numbers pure and simple. "gankers" are at the bottom of the food chain.think about it... 3v1 is nothing compared too 20v2... atleast the 3v1 has a chance.I think if people are doing 20v2 then even if they are killing those 2 they are losing their time and server space by not doing something more effective. But 3v1 or 5v1 is different kind of cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 @Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:@Doug.4930 said:@Gop.8713 said:No, and I don't really understand how you could draw that conclusion?Because you said this:@Gop.8713 said:As long as you've come to agree that purchasing the game is not p2w, we agree, no need to argue further . . .This statement implies that my arguments about the xpacs being pay 2 win are invalid because initially we all had to buy the game. @Gop.8713 said:I've done nothing but buy the game, and I have access to everything it has to offer, excepting the cosmetic and convenience items to be had from the gem store. Which I guess technically I could just buy with gold anyway. Your example seems completely out of left field and not comparable to anything that exists in the game . . ?So lets compare the two examples.Situation A: The xpacs give a huge player advantage because the PoF elite specs are just better than all core and HoT specs. Also mounts. It requires players to buy it with irl money in this case $15. Therefore its pay 2 win.Situation B: The new armour tier gives a huge player advantage because the stats from the new gear are just better than all core and HoT tiers. It requires players to buy it with irl money in this case $15. Therefore its pay 2 win.Both Situation A and situation B both involve additional and OPTIONAL purchases that give players who spend the EXTRA money an advantage over those who don't.So far your only refute to this logic is because the base game was payed, then nothing else after it can be pay to win.Ah, the expansions are the game. I see your confusion now. So you are in fact arguing that being forced to buy the game to gain access to its features is p2w, and yes I do disagree with you . . .The expansions are not the game. They are DLC. They are optional purchases. The game was released on the 28th of august 2012. All post releases of that game are DLC and not the game. A game is bought once. The moment you give players the ability to gain inherent advantages over their fellow players through OPTIONAL DLC purchases then the game has pay 2 win elements. Because those who pay are more likely to win. Those who bought PoF are more likely to win over those who have not. By that logic 'the game', as you choose to misidentify it, closed to new players with the release of HoT. I hadn't realized that was such a sad day. I feel fortunate to have gotten in under the wire there. I wonder what all of those other ppl have been playing all this time . . .They've been playing a F2P version. In an ideal world those original core classes available to the F2P crowd should be as balanced as the xpac specs. The incentive for buying the xpac being the ability to play new and interesting classes. However those classes shouldn't be straight upgrades from core classes. HoT basically was however. PoF is also however less so than HoT at release. But this is going in circles. I see HoT and PoF as paid DLC and not "the game". You see them as being a part of the base game. So we're at an impasse. Time to agree to disagree and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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