Let the Jousting begin! New Dismount Ability - Lance

[LetoII.3782]

@Gop.8713 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Sviel.7493 said:@Gop.8713

Please explain how I have access to tools that are in PoF. If this is some lame troll attempt saying that I just have to shell out for the expansion, you might as well just come out with it. Or, really, you can say anything at all instead of this absurd tease routine.

I don't have any opinion at all about what you 'should' do. I'm just pointing out that all the same options that are available to everyone else are available to you, and the choices you make are your responsibility, they are not forced upon you . . .

If you want to change 'I can't adapt' to 'Ive chosen not to adapt', I'd agree with you and I think it would be helpful and empowering for you . . .

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Sviel.7493 said:@Gop.8713

Please explain how I have access to tools that are in PoF. If this is some lame troll attempt saying that I just have to shell out for the expansion, you might as well just come out with it. Or, really, you can say anything at all instead of this absurd tease routine.

What? I don't get it, what tools are in pof that are not anywhere else? If you're in about the mount it self they buy pof, if you can afford a pc... even a monthly subscription to your isp then you sure as hell can buy pof.

I tend to agree. There are probably more ppl in the world who can't afford to buy PoF than there are ppl who can, but those ppl don't spend their idle time lamenting their inability to adapt to game mechanics on internet forums . . .@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Sviel.7493 said:@Gop.8713

Please explain how I have access to tools that are in PoF. If this is some lame troll attempt saying that I just have to shell out for the expansion, you might as well just come out with it. Or, really, you can say anything at all instead of this absurd tease routine.

What? I don't get it, what tools are in pof that are not anywhere else? If you're in about the mount it self they buy pof, if you can afford a pc... even a monthly subscription to your isp then you sure as hell can buy pof.

maybe he/she is not old enough to have a job yet? maybe mummy and daddy doesnt give him as much pocket money as others... maybe he has debts... who knows.

either way its an interesting point to level the playing field and remove pay to win factors from pvp environments.I see what you're saying, but anet has a VERY player-friendly business model and I'm not sure keeping up with the latest release can really be considered p2w, esp when there have only been three releases in seven years . . .

its a pvp environment and those who fork out money have an advantage. it's that simple to me.

You have to buy the game to enjoy its features. It's simple to me . . .

I agree on that for PvE otherwise its a pay to win model when applied to PvP.

I just want WvW to be a healthy game mode for all players. I want it to attract more players not exclude.

Just me though... I actually care about WvW and its understandable if others don't.

Sure if they wanted to give the game away for free to players of competitive modes that would be great, I just don't see how it's a viable business model. Compare your perspective to the thread asking for ways to monetize wvw to keep it afloat . . .

PoF has many great features on release but Warclaw definitely wasnt one of them. That came separately and much later down the track.

We seem to be talking about different things now . . .

We are? I was on the topic of it being interesting to level out the playing field in a pvp environment.

You said they should buy PoF for the WvW mount or feature of which I responded that Warclaw wasnt even a PoF feature, it was introduced much later.

but ok, lets leave it here before we have further communication problems.

Yes, we definitely are. I very specifically did not recommend that anyone 'should' do anything . . .

What actually happened was someone complained that they did not have access to the same tools as everyone else, which is untrue . . .

You mentioned that if everything was given to everyone for free that would be great, and I agreed, but pointed out that it isn't a viable business model . . .

well if you hand out warclaw to even the playing field then they can buy the skins for Warclaw?

if its an even playing field it attracts more players and those players could pay for transfers

if monetizing is the topic.

That seems to be the path they're on now. Future expansions seem pretty unlikely . . .

Their path may have suddenly veeredMike O'Brien quit.

Once more for old times sake

[Gop.8713]

I'm not sure how that would impact potential expansions though? It doesn't seem like this was a sudden thing . . .

[DemonSeed.3528]

@LetoII.3782 said:

For a while now I've felt that things have gone awry, but now it seems that the cascade of bad things is more awful than realized that I don't think people should ignore it. I do have confidence that Mike Z can revitalize us from the pit we're in currently unless higher ups prevent him from doing so with more bad decisions. It's time to unleash the corgi's

[XenesisII.1540]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:

For a while now I've felt that things have gone awry, but now it seems that the cascade of bad things is more awful than realized that I don't think people should ignore it.

I do have confidence that Mike Z can revitalize us from the pit

we're in currently unless higher ups prevent him from doing so with more bad decisions. It's time to unleash the corgi's

I don't, he took over as game director for gw2 since PoF, how much has he done for wvw since? rest of the game doesn't look any better, they still just rolling out living stories. Unless we just want to blame Mo 100% for holding back everything, but they did have a lot of side projects going on before all the layoffs, so can't really say there wasn't some leeway given for new projects. But what has wvw gotten? Their balance devs seem to be out of touch still, so yeah... not a lot of confidence here...

[DemonSeed.3528]

It was more my attempt to motivate him away from depression :o there is still time/chance to correct things.

[Doug.4930]

@Gop.8713 said:

I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash.

Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win.

Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?

Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Doug.4930 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash.

Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win.Because its not pay to win. Its buy the latest version to play. Anything else is just an obsolete version. Its never egregious when EA literally release 4 AAA game sequels for full price with microtransactions in the same time period as Anet release 1 half price expansion.

Or would you argue in the same breath that someone with WoW+all expansions is p2w compared to someone having just vanilla WoW? Because you must. Fairly sure someone at level 60 doesnt stand a chance against someone at level 120 in open world PvP.

If you say yes, well then sure. Expansions are now p2w. Everything is now p2w.

Anyway, I've dismounted 10x the people on my core engineer these last few days, compared to using the mounted lance. Because I always forget I have the damn thing so I dismount and blowtorch their kitten as an old habit.

[Doug.4930]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash.

Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win.

Or would you argue in the same breath that someone with WoW+all expansions is

p2w

compared to someone having just vanilla WoW? Because you must. Fairly sure someone at level 60 doesnt stand a chance against someone at level 120 in open world PvP.

Yep I sure do. You just described pay to win to the T. Players who buy the expansions can steamroll players who don't. Therefore its pay to win. I'm glad you used this excellent example to show that WoW is also pay to win.

If you say yes, well then sure. Expansions are now p2w. Everything is now p2w.

Yes they are. And no not everything is pay to win. Buying a cool mount skin or glider or a hat is not pay to win. Its only pay to win if you gain an inherent advantage because you payed more money than others.

Its really quite simple, you ask yourself a simple question. Do you get an advantage over other players because you put more money into the game than they did. If the answer is yes then its pay to win.

You should debate that you like pay to win mechanics. Because at this point saying gw2 isn't pay to win (like WoW is) is like you're trying to argue that gravity isn't real.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

I would say hot was more to pay because of the minstrel/marurder/trailblazing stats than what pof is.

[XenesisII.1540]

In the competitive scene gw2 expansions are pay to win because elite specs, new stats, and features that are better than core, they are now mostly the meta, they give a competitive edge over other players. Having mounts and gliders give you an advantage in wvw over those that don't have it, if every part of the game f2p core hot pof was not in the same pool of players and all played in their own brackets then it wouldn't be a problem and wouldn't be p2w.

In pve it's not p2w it's progression, unless you want to count how fast a guild clears hot raids with pof specs, but no cares about pve races, you're not getting ahead of anyone, there's no real prize or extra reward. There's no real p2w elements to get ahead because if you're buying a level 80 boost, well anyone can get to 80 just a matter of convenience of time.

So how is a game like WoW different? Well most of their competitive activities like arena or rated battlegrounds take place at max level, which means only the players with the latest expansion compete there. For battlegrounds you can do lower levels but they're broken down into brackets, and also now have level scaling. You do get some players taking expansion classes and parking them in certain lower brackets, but again this isn't the top end, most players are just passing through those levels.

For open world, well that was never really a competitive area of the game other than the first year of the honor system in vanilla when battlegrounds weren't around and people were grinding for ranks, which they scrapped for other systems. Since competitive play always revolves around current expansions and max level it falls under pay to progress, not p2w over others who don't have the expansions.

You're not going to find level 60's fighting 120's very often if at all, you will find 110-120 fights, their open pvp mode has scaling in it as well so it's a little more even fights in that range, plus phasing(kinda like megaserver sorting). Also core wow includes all expansions previous to the current one, so players are never that far behind in access, and also it's completely optional to run open world pvp now, which again isn't competitive, you run it for the extra bonus and if you want to play with more danger.

Edit: cleaned up some stuff.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash.

Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win.Because its not pay to win. Its buy the latest version to play. Anything else is just an obsolete version. Its never egregious when EA literally release 4 AAA game sequels for full price with microtransactions in the same time period as Anet release 1 half price expansion.

Or would you argue in the same breath that someone with WoW+all expansions is

p2w

compared to someone having just vanilla WoW? Because you must. Fairly sure someone at level 60 doesnt stand a chance against someone at level 120 in open world PvP.

If you say yes, well then sure.

Expansions are now p2w

.

Everything is now p2w

.

Anyway, I've dismounted 10x the people on my core engineer these last few days, compared to using the mounted lance. Because I always forget I have the kitten thing so I dismount and blowtorch their kitten as an old habit.

you said it yourself... either buy or be obsolete.... pay to win model to its very core.

[Dawdler.8521]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash.

Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win.Because its not pay to win. Its buy the latest version to play. Anything else is just an obsolete version. Its never egregious when EA literally release 4 AAA game sequels for full price with microtransactions in the same time period as Anet release 1 half price expansion.

Or would you argue in the same breath that someone with WoW+all expansions is

p2w

compared to someone having just vanilla WoW? Because you must. Fairly sure someone at level 60 doesnt stand a chance against someone at level 120 in open world PvP.

If you say yes, well then sure.

Expansions are now p2w

.

Everything is now p2w

.

Anyway, I've dismounted 10x the people on my core engineer these last few days, compared to using the mounted lance. Because I always forget I have the kitten thing so I dismount and blowtorch their kitten as an old habit.

you said it yourself... either buy or be obsolete.... pay to win model to its very core.Then yes,

everything

is p2w.

Even GW1 was p2w.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash.

Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win.Because its not pay to win. Its buy the latest version to play. Anything else is just an obsolete version. Its never egregious when EA literally release 4 AAA game sequels for full price with microtransactions in the same time period as Anet release 1 half price expansion.

Or would you argue in the same breath that someone with WoW+all expansions is

p2w

compared to someone having just vanilla WoW? Because you must. Fairly sure someone at level 60 doesnt stand a chance against someone at level 120 in open world PvP.

If you say yes, well then sure.

Expansions are now p2w

.

Everything is now p2w

.

Anyway, I've dismounted 10x the people on my core engineer these last few days, compared to using the mounted lance. Because I always forget I have the kitten thing so I dismount and blowtorch their kitten as an old habit.

you said it yourself... either buy or be obsolete.... pay to win model to its very core.Then yes,

everything

is p2w.

Even GW1 was p2w.

well I wouldn't say everything as it only applies to PvP areas in this game... Games like Warframe and LoL monetize skins and not advantages. No competitive edge what so ever and up until the introduction of Warclaw in WvW I said the same about this game... (I do pretty good on core builds so I personally dont see that as pay to win)

Didnt play gw1, wish I did because I heard the PvP was successful there.

[Gop.8713]

@Doug.4930 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash.

Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win.

Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?

Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block.

Honestly? It's bc you just don't understand the term you are using. Buying the game is not p2w. It's just not. It's not a debatable point . . .

[Anput.4620]

@bluberblasen.9684 said:ok you won gankers.you have finally a stupid weapon which you can dismount players who dont want to fight.nice anet

I want a warclaw for PvP too when i just want to cap and not fight please.

PvP modes should be about taking empty objectives.

Open world PvP is all about constant fighting, you can't choose when to fight if you get attacked in other MMO's, any battle royale or any survival game either, that defeats the whole point of open sandbox PvP.

[Anput.4620]

@Mil.3562 said:ANet really did it. Gave us a mount for roamimg and running back to zerg safely and then slowly nerfed it over 6 months and now the final blow to cripple it. Glad that i waited to buy that Stardust skin.

This change actually made me buy the stardust skin lol.

@Mil.3562 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@"bluberblasen.9684" said:ok you won gankers.you have finally a stupid weapon which you can dismount players who dont want to fight.nice anet

Stay in pve, if you "dont want to fight"This is soo painful to read in a subforum for a gamemode thats all about fighting open world.

Fights are part of wvw, how can you not see that?

Stay in PvP or GvG mode if you really want to fight. The real fighters and pvp gods are there. There are only gankers in WvW that picked on support build players for bags.

WvW is all about small group and zerg fights. Get it right. This is indeed so painful to read.

Actually, there is no reason to attack a support build as you won't be able to kill them most of the time, also WvW has roaming for a long time, it is an established playstyle, unlike sPvP which is all about teamfights, and not solo fights.

So if you don't want to play the game what do you want? Ktrain empty castles? Sounds like some glorious action-packed interactive gameplay.

[Anput.4620]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@bluberblasen.9684 said:ok you won gankers.you have finally a stupid weapon which you can dismount players who dont want to fight.nice anet

This is a strange complaint ... Anet tolds us about 2 weeks after Warclaw was released they were making a dismount skill.

I feel like I've established that I don't care what the rules are. Mounts/no mounts, dismount skill/no dismount skill, it's all the same to me. Everyone is playing by the same rules, so just use whatever rules exist. But I can't help noticing how odd this decision is. What was the point of adding the mount only to add a dismount skill immediately afterwards?

That's easy to answer ... because mounts were probably NEVER intended to avoid combat. They were (at least to me) a way to get to where you want to be faster. I think the fact that you could be dismounted is an indication of what they were ... and were not meant to be.

There seem to be so few players willing to adapt to either situation, everyone is entrenched in one camp or the other and I don't know how many ppl have really stopped to consider the motivations for it all . . .

This is an unfortunate sign of how MMO's cater to the newer generations now ... trying to appease everyone ... and resulting in appeasing no one. It will be a hard lesson for Anet to learn because fundamentally, this wasn't about not liking or hating mounts for players ... it was about the perceptions people have about what WvW is supposed to be. Yet again, Anet doesn't make a stand with their approach to developing the game and people are STILL left to guess and impose their own ideas of what it should be and for who. It's the same thing in PVE with raids ... game caters to group A ... Anet introduces Raids that don't suit the playstyle of group A ... WTH are they doing? Then they try and bridge the gap ... but for who?

This general wishy washy approach to the game philosophy is HURTING it, not fixing it.

Mounts were made to sell skins with zero afterthought to their impact tbh, as much as we argue about it skins were 90% of the reason probs.

[Gop.8713]

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@bluberblasen.9684 said:ok you won gankers.you have finally a stupid weapon which you can dismount players who dont want to fight.nice anet

This is a strange complaint ... Anet tolds us about 2 weeks after Warclaw was released they were making a dismount skill.

I feel like I've established that I don't care what the rules are. Mounts/no mounts, dismount skill/no dismount skill, it's all the same to me. Everyone is playing by the same rules, so just use whatever rules exist. But I can't help noticing how odd this decision is. What was the point of adding the mount only to add a dismount skill immediately afterwards?

That's easy to answer ... because mounts were probably NEVER intended to avoid combat. They were (at least to me) a way to get to where you want to be faster. I think the fact that you could be dismounted is an indication of what they were ... and were not meant to be.

There seem to be so few players willing to adapt to either situation, everyone is entrenched in one camp or the other and I don't know how many ppl have really stopped to consider the motivations for it all . . .

This is an unfortunate sign of how MMO's cater to the newer generations now ... trying to appease everyone ... and resulting in appeasing no one. It will be a hard lesson for Anet to learn because fundamentally, this wasn't about not liking or hating mounts for players ... it was about the perceptions people have about what WvW is supposed to be. Yet again, Anet doesn't make a stand with their approach to developing the game and people are STILL left to guess and impose their own ideas of what it should be and for who. It's the same thing in PVE with raids ... game caters to group A ... Anet introduces Raids that don't suit the playstyle of group A ... WTH are they doing? Then they try and bridge the gap ... but for who?

This general wishy washy approach to the game philosophy is HURTING it, not fixing it.

Mounts were made to sell skins with zero afterthought to their impact tbh, as much as we argue about it skins were 90% of the reason probs.

I could believe it was initiated for marketing purposes, but if it was implemented that way I think they would have had the dismount skill to start with or at least had it ready to go instead of taking so long to develop it. I think anet was surprised by the mount's impact, surprised by player reaction or both. Which is why I was wondering what they were expecting . . .

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Anput.4620 said:unlike sPvP which is all about teamfights, and not solo fights.

No it isn't. sPvP (conquest) is about point control, and for some, map specific objectives (eg. Capricorn). This involves a mixture of team fighting and 1v1 or 1vx, but mostly revolves around skilful point rotation. If you played any sPvP you would know that.

@Anput.4620 said:Ktrain empty castles?

WvW in squad play is a mixture of attacking empty objectives, defended objectives, open field fights, or defending your own objectives. Usually depends on the time of the day/coverage and/or the commander. Some days I'm flipping empty objectives in a havoc, other times I'm farming bags with a fight guild. If you played any WvW (besides solo play) you would know this.

Sorry man, we're not even talking about a difference in opinion here; we are talking about you posting factually FALSE statements.

Please, just for a change of pace, post something I can agree with. Thanks.

[kraai.7265]

@Jayden Reese.9542 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash.

Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win.

Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?

Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block.

What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.

it could cost 1 dollar and still be wrong, beeing forced to buy content i don't like just to keep playing and beeing competitive it's ridiculous, for example i mained chrono, loved it, hated mirage since before it was released, hated it even more after pof launch, yet they destroyed chronos, so more mesmer would buy the expansion, even if they don't like it at all... thats not fair and it clearly shows p2w elements, and you know why it's called p2w? because gw2 advertises as a f2p game, if they clarify that free accounts are just a trial account to see what the game has to offer it would be another story. But anet tells you it's f2p so you can belive you can compete with a f2p account... not true

let's not forget most of the veterans at this game, hate almost every pof spec, they are dumb, spammy, unkillable, and have really bad designs and mechanical flaws that hurt every pvp game mode for everyone, yet we can't even use the specs we bought in hot to fight against them because anet keeps making them worst patch after patch

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

Sure, if you have talent you can compete on a f2p account. Players spamming '1' doesn't really make much of a differnce what spec they're running. Most of us think we're a whole lot better than we really are and that the expansion specializations are the endall of the build. I play a f2p on a few serves and my paid main account somewhere else. The number of fights I win or lose roaming around has very little to do with the spec I'm running. Its more about the class I'm running and how good the opponent is vs how well I counter what they're doing.

[Gop.8713]

@kraai.7265 said:

@Jayden Reese.9542 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash.

Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win.

Why don't we ask some core engies how they feel about fighting holo smiths. Because we all know that core classes are just as good as xpac elite specs right?

Also nerf mounts more please. 3 Evades and their Health pool needs to be on the chopping block.

What's it 15 bucs? That's 5 coffees. 2 packs of cigs. 2 drinks at a bar. Are you saying you are so broke you can't afford or do anything then cry p2w. I mean you got internet. That's 30 bucs a month or more. I can't understand how you or anyone legit thinks buying the game and expansions is p2w. Call your isp and say you are going on vaca for 2 weeks to temp suspend your internet and bam you saved 15 bucs and buy it. You don't get to play for 2 weeks but you never will be getting steamrolled by elite specs ever again.

it could cost 1 dollar and still be wrong, beeing forced to buy content i don't like just to keep playing and beeing competitive it's ridiculous, for example i mained chrono, loved it, hated mirage since before it was released, hated it even more after pof launch, yet they destroyed chronos, so more mesmer would buy the expansion, even if they don't like it at all... thats not fair and it clearly shows p2w elements, and you know why it's called p2w? because gw2 advertises as a f2p game, if they clarify that free accounts are just a trial account to see what the game has to offer it would be another story. But anet tells you it's f2p so you can belive you can compete with a f2p account... not true

let's not forget most of the veterans at this game, hate almost every pof spec, they are dumb, spammy, unkillable, and have really bad designs and mechanical flaws that hurt every pvp game mode for everyone, yet we can't even use the specs we bought in hot to fight against them because anet keeps making them worst patch after patch

So you're saying the problem is that anet offers a free to play option. I can see that, like they could block everyone from competitive modes until they have updated to the latest version, same as when you're blocked on patch day until you patch. From my perspective the free to play option is still desirable, if only bc offering something for nothing is always desirable. But ppl are different . . .

I have reconsidered one point though. I argued that giving the game away for free isn't a viable business plan, but I don't actually have the numbers to support that. Anet has already gone free to play on vanilla, and included the first expansion with purchase of the second. I don't believe more expansions are in the future so who's to say they won't go full free to play and just make their money off microtransactions? Only anet really has the information necessary to determine if that is feasible . . .

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash.

Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win.Because its not pay to win. Its buy the latest version to play. Anything else is just an obsolete version. Its never egregious when EA literally release 4 AAA game sequels for full price with microtransactions in the same time period as Anet release 1 half price expansion.

Or would you argue in the same breath that someone with WoW+all expansions is

p2w

compared to someone having just vanilla WoW? Because you must. Fairly sure someone at level 60 doesnt stand a chance against someone at level 120 in open world PvP.

If you say yes, well then sure.

Expansions are now p2w

.

Everything is now p2w

.

Anyway, I've dismounted 10x the people on my core engineer these last few days, compared to using the mounted lance. Because I always forget I have the kitten thing so I dismount and blowtorch their kitten as an old habit.

you said it yourself... either buy or be obsolete.... pay to win model to its very core.Then yes,

everything

is p2w.

Even GW1 was p2w.

Is RL p2w though? I can't quit that sadly.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

I can't understand how you can possibly defend pay to win mechanics. Debate all you like about how you believe everyone here can afford game expansions, but the fact remains that those who fork out cash are rewarded for their payment by having an incredibly large advantage over players who don't fork out cash.

Its a pay to win mechanic. Those who pay are more likely to win. It never ceases to amaze me how people can play this game with the belief that it isn't pay to win.Because its not pay to win. Its buy the latest version to play. Anything else is just an obsolete version. Its never egregious when EA literally release 4 AAA game sequels for full price with microtransactions in the same time period as Anet release 1 half price expansion.

Or would you argue in the same breath that someone with WoW+all expansions is

p2w

compared to someone having just vanilla WoW? Because you must. Fairly sure someone at level 60 doesnt stand a chance against someone at level 120 in open world PvP.

If you say yes, well then sure.

Expansions are now p2w

.

Everything is now p2w

.

Anyway, I've dismounted 10x the people on my core engineer these last few days, compared to using the mounted lance. Because I always forget I have the kitten thing so I dismount and blowtorch their kitten as an old habit.

you said it yourself... either buy or be obsolete.... pay to win model to its very core.Then yes,

everything

is p2w.

Even GW1 was p2w.

Is RL p2w though? I can't quit that sadly.

What is this RL you speak of.

[Obtena.7952]

@Anput.4620 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@bluberblasen.9684 said:ok you won gankers.you have finally a stupid weapon which you can dismount players who dont want to fight.nice anet

This is a strange complaint ... Anet tolds us about 2 weeks after Warclaw was released they were making a dismount skill.

I feel like I've established that I don't care what the rules are. Mounts/no mounts, dismount skill/no dismount skill, it's all the same to me. Everyone is playing by the same rules, so just use whatever rules exist. But I can't help noticing how odd this decision is. What was the point of adding the mount only to add a dismount skill immediately afterwards?

That's easy to answer ... because mounts were probably NEVER intended to avoid combat. They were (at least to me) a way to get to where you want to be faster. I think the fact that you could be dismounted is an indication of what they were ... and were not meant to be.

There seem to be so few players willing to adapt to either situation, everyone is entrenched in one camp or the other and I don't know how many ppl have really stopped to consider the motivations for it all . . .

This is an unfortunate sign of how MMO's cater to the newer generations now ... trying to appease everyone ... and resulting in appeasing no one. It will be a hard lesson for Anet to learn because fundamentally, this wasn't about not liking or hating mounts for players ... it was about the perceptions people have about what WvW is supposed to be. Yet again, Anet doesn't make a stand with their approach to developing the game and people are STILL left to guess and impose their own ideas of what it should be and for who. It's the same thing in PVE with raids ... game caters to group A ... Anet introduces Raids that don't suit the playstyle of group A ... WTH are they doing? Then they try and bridge the gap ... but for who?

This general wishy washy approach to the game philosophy is HURTING it, not fixing it.

Mounts were made to sell skins with zero afterthought to their impact tbh, as much as we argue about it skins were 90% of the reason probs.

You don't know that ... it's just your speculation because you have a big bag of salt. Even to this day you can see there was not zero afterthought to their impact. They get you to where you need to be faster. That's not an afterthought ... that is intended.