Psientist.6437 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 The forum looks awful, I hope the format bug gets fixed soon."Do the norn know that killing another Elder Dragon would end the world? As far as we've seen, only Dragon's Watch and maybe the Pact knows this. Given how the charr react to Aurene, it's likely that it isn't common knowledge how important Elder Dragons are to the world's existence, so it makes sense that the norn are seeing "Braham gave up on killing Jormag" and not "Braham gave up on killing Jormag and the world".Right now, you're assuming that what the players know = what everyone knows. This is never shown to be the case." Konig Des Todes.2086 I hope the studio doesn't use this logic. Tyrian cities are better connected than real world cities. The role of Elder Dragons is one of the most important discoveries in the history of magi-physics and possibly the most important factor influencing the struggle against them. How does it stay a secret? Why would it stay a secret? Why wouldn't there be weekly or even daily updates on Elder dragons that spread through Tyria? An obvious answer would be that the studio said so, but I hate that type of impossibly 'just so' scenario. It makes me feel as though I'm viewing Tyria through a tube and nothing happens outside of the tube. Obiously the player will know things that not every Tyrian knows, but the role of Elder dragons would not be one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 @"Teratus.2859" said:Jormag's state however is interesting, It say's it's slumbering beneath the ice yet it's in part active as well.This reminds me of sharks.Sharks can "turn off" half their brain during their deep sleep periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 @"Psientist.6437" said:The forum looks awful, I hope the format bug gets fixed soon."Do the norn know that killing another Elder Dragon would end the world? As far as we've seen, only Dragon's Watch and maybe the Pact knows this. Given how the charr react to Aurene, it's likely that it isn't common knowledge how important Elder Dragons are to the world's existence, so it makes sense that the norn are seeing "Braham gave up on killing Jormag" and not "Braham gave up on killing Jormag and the world".Right now, you're assuming that what the players know = what everyone knows. This is never shown to be the case." Konig Des Todes.2086 I hope the studio doesn't use this logic. Tyrian cities are better connected than real world cities. The role of Elder Dragons is one of the most important discoveries in the history of magi-physics and possibly the most important factor influencing the struggle against them. How does it stay a secret? Why would it stay a secret? Why wouldn't there be weekly or even daily updates on Elder dragons that spread through Tyria? An obvious answer would be that the studio said so, but I hate that type of impossibly 'just so' scenario. It makes me feel as though I'm viewing Tyria through a tube and nothing happens outside of the tube. Obiously the player will know things that not every Tyrian knows, but the role of Elder dragons would not be one of them.I wouldn't say Tyrian cities are better connected. I'd say the exact opposite. First off, asura gates are expensive and uncommon - only seven cities have them. Waypoints exist, but require people to have been somewhere else first. Secondly, there's no instant - and widespread - communication means. No internet, not even telephones. Dragon's Watch and highly important military individuals that are allied with Dragon's Watch (such as Pact/Orders leadership) have communicators, but even Bangar, an imperator, and Jennah do not. So your rank and file, let alone civilians, won't.Transportation is fast... but expensive. And long-range communication is still pre-telephone era. I mean, Bangar Ruinbringer uses carrier pigeon (or equivalent of) to invite the Commander to the All-Legion Rally. That's how Queen Jennah contacted the Commander in Season 3. And Kito in Season 4.This means that the only way for news to travel, is through slow newspapers and heralds - or the "holo-news", which seems mostly interested in races and surveys, not politics or even world states.If you go through Divinity's Reach, there are NPCs who outright deny the existence of Elder Dragons - granted, this is meant to be 1325 AE dialogue, ergo before Zhaitan's defeat, but this is also proof that people are not really all that interested in spreading knowledge about the Elder Dragons. We have zero indication that "killing Elder Dragons is bad for the world" has been spread outside of the people on the front lines and higher ups of the Orders and Pact. And the notion of such is very far away from an "impossibly just so scenario".If we take a step back and look at dialogue from the recent Dragon Bash, there is a lot of talk about killing the Elder Dragons. And it seems nothing to mention that the Elder Dragons' existence is vital to the world. Which just goes to suggest that your common Tyrian doesn't know that "kill one more dragon and the world dies" is the situation at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphon.2875 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Taimi is writing her book on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@"Psientist.6437" said:The forum looks awful, I hope the format bug gets fixed soon."Do the norn know that killing another Elder Dragon would end the world? As far as we've seen, only Dragon's Watch and maybe the Pact knows this. Given how the charr react to Aurene, it's likely that it isn't common knowledge how important Elder Dragons are to the world's existence, so it makes sense that the norn are seeing "Braham gave up on killing Jormag" and not "Braham gave up on killing Jormag and the world".Right now, you're assuming that what the players know = what everyone knows. This is never shown to be the case." Konig Des Todes.2086 I hope the studio doesn't use this logic. Tyrian cities are better connected than real world cities. The role of Elder Dragons is one of the most important discoveries in the history of magi-physics and possibly the most important factor influencing the struggle against them. How does it stay a secret? Why would it stay a secret? Why wouldn't there be weekly or even daily updates on Elder dragons that spread through Tyria? An obvious answer would be that the studio said so, but I hate that type of impossibly 'just so' scenario. It makes me feel as though I'm viewing Tyria through a tube and nothing happens outside of the tube. Obiously the player will know things that not every Tyrian knows, but the role of Elder dragons would not be one of them.I wouldn't say Tyrian cities are better connected. I'd say the exact opposite. First off, asura gates are expensive and uncommon - only seven cities have them. Waypoints exist, but require people to have been somewhere else first. Secondly, there's no instant - and widespread - communication means. No internet, not even telephones. Dragon's Watch and highly important military individuals that are allied with Dragon's Watch (such as Pact/Orders leadership) have communicators, but even Bangar, an imperator, and Jennah do not. So your rank and file, let alone civilians, won't.Transportation is fast... but expensive. And long-range communication is still pre-telephone era. I mean, Bangar Ruinbringer uses carrier pigeon (or equivalent of) to invite the Commander to the All-Legion Rally. That's how Queen Jennah contacted the Commander in Season 3. And Kito in Season 4.This means that the only way for news to travel, is through slow newspapers and heralds - or the "holo-news", which seems mostly interested in races and surveys, not politics or even world states.If you go through Divinity's Reach, there are NPCs who outright deny the existence of Elder Dragons - granted, this is meant to be 1325 AE dialogue, ergo before Zhaitan's defeat, but this is also proof that people are not really all that interested in spreading knowledge about the Elder Dragons. We have zero indication that "killing Elder Dragons is bad for the world" has been spread outside of the people on the front lines and higher ups of the Orders and Pact. And the notion of such is very far away from an "impossibly just so scenario".If we take a step back and look at dialogue from the recent Dragon Bash, there is a lot of talk about killing the Elder Dragons. And it seems nothing to mention that the Elder Dragons' existence is vital to the world. Which just goes to suggest that your common Tyrian doesn't know that "kill one more dragon and the world dies" is the situation at hand.i wonder if "the All" is some sort of "common knowledge" or still just stuff the researchers/scholars know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 To me the situation with the Elder Dragons seems a lot like the situation with climate change in real life. The experts, the ones on the front lines, know all the ins and outs of the current situation but the majority of people either don't want to hear it because they're so fixated on the older perspective (kill all the dragons) which the experts now know is incorrect, or they don't want to think about it at all and just want to get on with their own lives and more immediate problems closer to home and pretend the world isn't in danger of total collapse.The rate events are going in Tyria it's entirely possible we could do something to replace or pacify all the remaining dragons before the majority of people in the world even get around to thinking about the fact that there are dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 IMHO the problem is less that he failed to kill Jormag, the problems area) he survivedandb) ran awayandc) left his comrades behind to fight and die alone.I think even we can understand why b and c are a problem for every norn. Because they would be a problem for humans as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voltaicbore.8012 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 @"Teratus.2859" said:Personally I'd very much like to deal with both these dragons at the same time.. us knowing that we can let neither of them fall without replacement or see catastrophe strike Tyria as a result.My own tinfoil hat theory is that there is currently no such thing as the Deep Sea Dragon, and that it's a creature Tyrians actually create by pitting the fire dragon against the ice dragon. In the clash, the fire gets extinguished, but not before melting the ice into water. What remains of each dragon's consciousness could rush into the created water to preserve itself from oblivion.As for the undersea horrors displacing the krait, who's to say that fire and ice are not already having this sort of interaction on the fringes of each dragon's maximum reach of influence? The reason why there's so little material about it in the old tomes and writings is perhaps that whatever deity or seer that has this information about Bubbles decided it was both inevitable and better for us all not to know. This theory is really not consistent with a lot of what we've seen, I know, but it's a fun thought for me nonetheless.As for the whole Vowbreaker thing, I speculate (as have others in this thread already) that it comes from the fact that he rallied the Norn as their chosen champion, then backed off at the last minute and subsequently went off to do other things - leaving a lot of disappointed Norn in his wake. I'd still like to know precisely what the "vow" was that they consider him to have broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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