ridiculously 1 sided matchmaking?!?

[Khalisto.5780]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@"crepuscular.9047" said:seriously... waited 6+ minutes and you give us this kind of matchup? a group of silvers/golds vs plats/legends

if there isnt enough plats and legend, change it to something like a 2v2 or 3v3 king of the hill style map like GW1's HoH where the top tier pvpers can duke it out among themselves over a single point

even your own data says that the top tier players are capable of dishing out 10x the damage compared to the average players

So looking up this match, it looks like the matchmaker did a pretty good job in this case!

No duo queues.

Winning Team

Elementalist 1229Thief 1365Warrior 1298Ranger 1297Ranger 1411Avg 1320

Losing Team

Elementalist 1402Elementalist 1276Thief 1214Guardian 1351Ranger 1309Avg 1310.4

Keep in mind that final score of a match isn't always indicative of good or bad matchmaking. There are a lot of factors that affect it outside of skill rating. Your team could have given up after the losing the first team fight. Sometimes teams just don't play up to their skill level. The opposing team could have been playing above their normal skill level.

I'm not saying our matchmaking is perfect by any means, but it generally does a pretty decent job of making sure both teams are balanced.

What about people sitting at the top of the leader boards with 90% win ratios? Is that not fishy to you? That kind of luck/unholy skill seems fishy to me.

not sure you're you didnt mind reading the like 50 comments in the other thread you made about it, or you just a troll

this happens every season for a while

those winrates are pretty much achieved by doing 3 things

playing in low pop timesalways duoQand avoid like the 2 other duos doing the same at the time you're doing it

there's 2 options for anet

1) getting rid of duoq2) show only the online status of your friend/block list and not the map they're in

the second option i bet the ppl are just tell each other if they're in a match or not, because they have mutual interest dodging each other

[Zexanima.7851]

@Khalisto.5780 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@"crepuscular.9047" said:seriously... waited 6+ minutes and you give us this kind of matchup? a group of silvers/golds vs plats/legends

if there isnt enough plats and legend, change it to something like a 2v2 or 3v3 king of the hill style map like GW1's HoH where the top tier pvpers can duke it out among themselves over a single point

even your own data says that the top tier players are capable of dishing out 10x the damage compared to the average players

So looking up this match, it looks like the matchmaker did a pretty good job in this case!

No duo queues.

Winning Team

Elementalist 1229Thief 1365Warrior 1298Ranger 1297Ranger 1411Avg 1320

Losing Team

Elementalist 1402Elementalist 1276Thief 1214Guardian 1351Ranger 1309Avg 1310.4

Keep in mind that final score of a match isn't always indicative of good or bad matchmaking. There are a lot of factors that affect it outside of skill rating. Your team could have given up after the losing the first team fight. Sometimes teams just don't play up to their skill level. The opposing team could have been playing above their normal skill level.

I'm not saying our matchmaking is perfect by any means, but it generally does a pretty decent job of making sure both teams are balanced.

What about people sitting at the top of the leader boards with 90% win ratios? Is that not fishy to you? That kind of luck/unholy skill seems fishy to me.

not sure you're you didnt mind reading the like 50 comments in the other thread you made about it, or you just a troll

this happens every season for a while

those winrates are pretty much achieved by doing 3 things

playing in low pop timesalways duoQand avoid like the 2 other duos doing the same at the time you're doing it

there's 2 options for anet

1) getting rid of duoq2) show only the online status of your friend/block list and not the map they're in

the second option i bet the ppl are just tell each other if they're in a match or not, because they have mutual interest dodging each other

I'm trying to get anet to acknowledge this should not be happening and do something about it. I'm aware of why/how its happening (or at least have my guesses) but if people don't keep asking questions and raising a stink about it then it's just going to keep happening. Being an avid player of competitive pvp video games, letting this kind of thing go on for so long just doesn't sit well with me.

[Zaxares.5419]

I think the root cause of this issue boils down to two major factors:

1. The GW2 PvP population is too small, so you're forced to throw players of vastly differing skill levels together if you don't want queue times to be absolutely ridiculous.
2. You have two main groups of players with decidedly different end goals; one group is there for fun, engaging matches against a relatively equal enemy team, and one group is just there to farm gold/shinies/AP.

In order to address this, I would propose the following changes:

1. We have to split Solo and Team Queues again. There's no way around this. As long as people can queue with their friends, there will be people who abuse it to win-trade, stack their team with uber-Plat+ teammates and just roflstomp the opposition.
2. Obviously, this would drive queue times for Team Queues through the roof because I suspect, just like back in GW1, that the vast majority of people doing PvP are solo queue'rs. (IIRC, a GW1 dev remarked that everyday, more Random Arena matches were played than all other PvP match modes COMBINED.)
3. Now, in order to make the Team Queue times not ridiculously crazy, what I propose is adding a new opt-in PvP option that says "Allow me to be matched against Team Queue opponents from Solo Queue". To sweeten the deal, if you enable this option, you get DOUBLE the number of pips from being placed in a Team Queue match, regardless of whether you win or lose. If you REALLY don't want to face team queuers as a solo player, then don't tick this option. That said, I guarantee you'd have a LOT of players ticking this option, because for the people who are just there to farm gold/shinies, they don't care whether they win or lose, as long as they feel that the time investment is worth it. But because you can't tell whether you're placed in a Team Queue match or not, you'd still have to play to win if you want the maximum number of pips per match.
4. Finally, to deal with the inevitable presence of bots, we really need ANet to step up their efforts to identify and deal with reports of bot behaviour. From a PvP player's side though, if you don't want bots on your team, then play Team Queue and go in with a team of 5. If you're just a player who's there to farm, then why do you care? Just lose the match faster, get your 6-8 pips, and queue for the next match.

[Sanity Obscure.6054]

The thought of having anyone on my team more than +/- 100 rank scares the bejesus out of me. I don't believe that to be accurate matchmaking, regardless of whether both teams have equal pairs of lower or higher ranked players.

I understand this is a side effect of a low player population as well, but still.

[MrFrusciante.2438]

@"crepuscular.9047" said:EDIT: changed the discussion title to less contentious...

seriously... waited 6+ minutes and you give us this kind of matchup? a group of silvers/golds vs plats/legends

if there isnt enough plats and legend, change it to something like a 2v2 or 3v3 king of the hill style map like GW1's HoH where the top tier pvpers can duke it out among themselves over a single point

even your own data says that the top tier players are capable of dishing out 10x the damage compared to the average players

your mistake began the second you stayed in que for more than 4 minutes. MMR is so fucked that matches like that are guaranteed to be 1 sided as theyre pulling people from outside normal que base to compensate for lack of players queing at that specific moment. not to mention forcing all accounts to be 50/50 as MMR default when playing more than 2 matches ina row without stopping. Duoing helps with this but your still likele to get a gold 2 in plat 1/2 match. All the more if youre on a 3 game + win streak solo. iTs quite literally a rigged system that requires you to carry 1+people to stay on streak.

Just flat out exit que if it takes longer than 4 minutes. Take a break and arena or unranked or hop on alt account.

[MrFrusciante.2438]

@Zenix.6198 said:

@Marxx.5021 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:I'm not saying our matchmaking is perfect by any means, but it generally does a pretty decent job of making sure both teams are balanced.

No wonder matchmaking is so bad if you guys really think average mmr makes balanced teams.

Honestly....this match seemed pretty fair

1 - ~1400 player on each team2 ~ 1300 players on each team2 ~ 1200 players on each team

and about a ~200 rating gap between highest and lowest rated player pear team.this aint so bad, srsly.

in no world should a gold 3 be in a silver 3 game. That is just lazy algorithm compensating for lack of que to push out the idea that pvp is not dead playerbase wise.same applies to gold 2/3s in plat 1550+games or splitting 2 plat 2/3s in a predominantly gold 3 game thinking they balance each other out because they don't they are plat 3 for a reason to the point where'll they'll just mismatch farm the weaker gold 2 that feeds/ rotates poorly to win or straight 1vX hold far/ home while team rolls rest of map then pop away out of fight like a good kite.

So @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 no its not fair nor is it a healthy mmr system. Weve been telling you guys this for almost 4 yrs. So much so a good chunk of people match manip ques to cheat/wintrade/bot so hard now it killed ranked pvp and all sense of accomplishment.

[Ghetx.1752]

Simple solution : Find another game and play pvp there.No point debating here about anything.No one ever listen.

[Archer.4362]

@"Zaxares.5419" said:I think the root cause of this issue boils down to two major factors:

1. The GW2 PvP population is too small, so you're forced to throw players of vastly differing skill levels together if you don't want queue times to be absolutely ridiculous.
2. You have two main groups of players with decidedly different end goals; one group is there for fun, engaging matches against a relatively equal enemy team, and one group is just there to farm gold/shinies/AP.

In order to address this, I would propose the following changes:

1. We have to split Solo and Team Queues again. There's no way around this. As long as people can queue with their friends, there will be people who abuse it to win-trade, stack their team with uber-Plat+ teammates and just roflstomp the opposition.
2. Obviously, this would drive queue times for Team Queues through the roof because I suspect, just like back in GW1, that the vast majority of people doing PvP are solo queue'rs. (IIRC, a GW1 dev remarked that everyday, more Random Arena matches were played than all other PvP match modes COMBINED.)
3. Now, in order to make the Team Queue times not ridiculously crazy, what I propose is adding a new opt-in PvP option that says "Allow me to be matched against Team Queue opponents from Solo Queue". To sweeten the deal, if you enable this option, you get DOUBLE the number of pips from being placed in a Team Queue match, regardless of whether you win or lose. If you REALLY don't want to face team queuers as a solo player, then don't tick this option. That said, I guarantee you'd have a LOT of players ticking this option, because for the people who are just there to farm gold/shinies, they don't care whether they win or lose, as long as they feel that the time investment is worth it. But because you can't tell whether you're placed in a Team Queue match or not, you'd still have to play to win if you want the maximum number of pips per match.
4. Finally, to deal with the inevitable presence of bots, we really need ANet to step up their efforts to identify and deal with reports of bot behaviour. From a PvP player's side though, if you don't want bots on your team, then play Team Queue and go in with a team of 5. If you're just a player who's there to farm, then why do you care? Just lose the match faster, get your 6-8 pips, and queue for the next match.

totally agree, but as always we have no response from anet to what we say many pvp players.

Although they do not answer any post equal 1/70 respond, otherwise they do not care, as long as the gem shop works, the other is less important.

oh and I forgot, when he replies is: we are working on it, we can not comment on anything right now. (2 years waiting ...)

[Zexanima.7851]

Honestly, just don't play ranked. The rewards are not worth the frustration. I only do unranked now, and even then only when I have 3-5 buddies to play with.

[Shao.7236]

There's absolutely "NOTHING" but rating points that can define player capability, which means if anyone is higher than they should they will suffer in the end. That's just the way it is, I think people are going way too harsh at the devs for something that's out of their control, let alone that there's a lot of power creep with the classes we just saw that needs to be fixed which I hope they will.

Asking for any specials rules will only allow more manipulation of the system, we don't need that.

[Drizzt.1796]

If any Developers read this, please know that i want a dueling system or a 1v1 PvP or something to where in PvP you can Accept and send a 1v1 request. Please ask Areanet if they can do this. If not i wish i hadn't written this comment.

[crepuscular.9047]

@"Shao.7236" said:There's absolutely "NOTHING" but rating points that can define player capability, which means if anyone is higher than they should they will suffer in the end. That's just the way it is, I think people are going way too harsh at the devs for something that's out of their control, let alone that there's a lot of power creep with the classes we just saw that needs to be fixed which I hope they will.

Asking for any specials rules will only allow more manipulation of the system, we don't need that.

agree with you there, a rating system must existlike other mentioned, and raised constantly over the years, that mmr is not a true reflection of 'skill' because it is pitting 5 players against another 5 players, and the rating you gain/loss is based on your entire team rather than individual, the more players you have in a match the more difficult to get the ratings right; i mean how many times have we seen 1 player literally hard carried the entire team, or the team carries a new inexperience pvper to ratings he/she should not be?

 

 

some of my own personal suggestions going forward for pvp match making

as i requested in the original post above, if the pool of spvp population of different skill levels is such an issue with the matchmaker, perhaps revamp the format into smaller 3v3 maps to ensure the range of mmr isn't so wide; using average is never a good standard, the standard deviation was 63.53624592if matching against players that are within the same bracket, @ 100 skill range between the top and bottom, the deviation is ~30, ideally I would say <20 should be aiming for by the matchmaker for a good matchup; obviously this would mean that duoQ would be tricky to be accountable for, do we do not allow duoQ? or simply use the higher rating to calculate the standard deviation for the match up?

changes can be made to deal with queue dodgers, masking all pvp map names with 'Heart of the Mists' in the Social Panel, though not ideal because people can still guess you are in a match, the ideal method is to mask the pvp map name with whatever map the player was on previously.

[Khalisto.5780]

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:There's absolutely "NOTHING" but rating points that can define player capability, which means if anyone is higher than they should they will suffer in the end. That's just the way it is, I think people are going way too harsh at the devs for something that's out of their control, let alone that there's a lot of power creep with the classes we just saw that needs to be fixed which I hope they will.

Asking for any specials rules will only allow more manipulation of the system, we don't need that.

agree with you there, a rating system must existlike other mentioned, and raised constantly over the years, that mmr is not a true reflection of 'skill' because it is pitting 5 players against another 5 players, and the rating you gain/loss is based on your entire team rather than individual, the more players you have in a match the more difficult to get the ratings right; i mean how many times have we seen 1 player literally hard carried the entire team, or the team carries a new inexperience pvper to ratings he/she should not be?

 

 

some of my own personal suggestions going forward for pvp match making

as i requested in the original post above, if the pool of spvp population of different skill levels is such an issue with the matchmaker, perhaps revamp the format into smaller 3v3 maps to ensure the range of mmr isn't so wide; using average is never a good standard, the standard deviation was 63.53624592if matching against players that are within the same bracket, @ 100 skill range between the top and bottom, the deviation is ~30, ideally I would say <20 should be aiming for by the matchmaker for a good matchup; obviously this would mean that duoQ would be tricky to be accountable for, do we do not allow duoQ? or simply use the higher rating to calculate the standard deviation for the match up?

changes can be made to deal with queue dodgers, masking all pvp map names with 'Heart of the Mists' in the Social Panel, though not ideal because people can still guess you are in a match, the ideal method is to mask the pvp map name with whatever map the player was on previously.

i dont even know if it's the right time to get rid of q dodge, I mean as a gold 3/plat 1 player i have to dodge ppl like vallun cuz at the time I may be the highest rating and be matched against him with pretty much no chance of winning unless he gets silver players in his teams

[Guest]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The only time the matchmaker looks at classes is that it it limits the matches to +1 of any class per team. So you're very unlikely to have 3 of one class and 1 of another class on a team. (It's not absolutely impossible, just mathematically very improbable. And the limitation can be bypassed by class swapping.)

I don't think this (the class limit) is working, 'cause I just got out of a match where the comps were:

Us: 1 Ranger (Soulbeast), 2x Thief (Deadeye), 2x Necro (1 Reaper, 1 Core)Them: 1 Necro (Reaper), 2x Engie (1 Holo, 1 Scrapper), 2x Guardian (1 FB, 1 Core)

No swapping took place. Needless to say we got absolutely mercilessly stomped.

[Kaburro.4712]

@"Highlie.7641" said:It's amusing they always assume the player's are at there correct MMR, instead of what we have been telling them for years: Builds are carrying the players.

what happens to your "even" matchmaking when you have a player listed at 1301 who really play's at 900, that's right a blowout.Builds / Bot's and the ability to press "F" is the only difference in "tiers" nowadays.

I had an enemy Plat3 that couldn't understand how he lost. I found out he just had made the placement, I was in gold 1 and I tell you, he did nothing in the match.

[Kaburro.4712]

@Archer.4362 said:

@"Zaxares.5419" said:I think the root cause of this issue boils down to two major factors:

1. The GW2 PvP population is too small, so you're forced to throw players of vastly differing skill levels together if you don't want queue times to be absolutely ridiculous.
2. You have two main groups of players with decidedly different end goals; one group is there for fun, engaging matches against a relatively equal enemy team, and one group is just there to farm gold/shinies/AP.

In order to address this, I would propose the following changes:

1. We have to split Solo and Team Queues again. There's no way around this. As long as people can queue with their friends, there will be people who abuse it to win-trade, stack their team with uber-Plat+ teammates and just roflstomp the opposition.
2. Obviously, this would drive queue times for Team Queues through the roof because I suspect, just like back in GW1, that the vast majority of people doing PvP are solo queue'rs. (IIRC, a GW1 dev remarked that everyday, more Random Arena matches were played than all other PvP match modes COMBINED.)
3. Now, in order to make the Team Queue times not ridiculously crazy, what I propose is adding a new
   opt-in
   PvP option that says "Allow me to be matched against Team Queue opponents from Solo Queue". To sweeten the deal, if you enable this option, you get DOUBLE the number of pips from being placed in a Team Queue match, regardless of whether you win or lose. If you REALLY don't want to face team queuers as a solo player, then don't tick this option. That said, I guarantee you'd have a LOT of players ticking this option, because for the people who are just there to farm gold/shinies, they don't care whether they win or lose, as long as they feel that the time investment is worth it. But because you can't tell whether you're placed in a Team Queue match or not, you'd still have to play to win if you want the maximum number of pips per match.
4. Finally, to deal with the inevitable presence of bots, we really need ANet to step up their efforts to identify and deal with reports of bot behaviour. From a PvP player's side though, if you don't want bots on your team, then play Team Queue and go in with a team of 5. If you're just a player who's there to farm, then why do you care? Just lose the match faster, get your 6-8 pips, and queue for the next match.

totally agree, but as always we have no response from anet to what we say many pvp players.

Although they do not answer any post equal 1/70 respond, otherwise they do not care, as long as the gem shop works, the other is less important.

oh and I forgot, when he replies is: we are working on it, we can not comment on anything right now. (2 years waiting ...)

Or delete the thread and suspend you from forum... o.O

[Guest]

So this was my night in PvP. This is the kind of thing I was talking about, the kind of thing that drives me away from the gamemode. Three of the games were competitive-ish. The rest were just smackdowns filled with baffling comps, repeatedly facing the same (much better) players, one game with someone who went AFK midmatch with a nearly tied score, and one match that was 4v5 from the start as the spicy cherry on top of this... "special" sundae. Probably some bots thrown in there, who knows. Nothing about these games was fun. This happens to me at least once a season.

Again, I'm not bothered about my ranking - I just want to be matched in games that are competitive and therefore fun. So if I really should be like, Silver 2 or something, fine, put me there, but ending up in games like this over and over and over is frustrating and demoralizing. It just wastes everyone's time. So is this a placement issue? Matchmaker issue? Something else?

[crepuscular.9047]

@"Kunzaito.8169" said:So this was my night in PvP. This is the kind of thing I was talking about, the kind of thing that drives me away from the gamemode. Three of the games were competitive-ish. The rest were just smackdowns filled with baffling comps, repeatedly facing the same (much better) players, one game with someone who went AFK midmatch with a nearly tied score, and one match that was 4v5 from the start as the spicy cherry on top of this... "special" sundae. Probably some bots thrown in there, who knows. Nothing about these games was fun. This happens to me at least once a season.

Again, I'm not bothered about my ranking - I just want to be matched in games that are competitive and therefore fun. So if I really should be like, Silver 2 or something, fine, put me there, but ending up in games like this over and over and over is frustrating and demoralizing. It just wastes everyone's time. So is this a placement issue? Matchmaker issue? Something else?

https://i.imgur.com/gMhkQLW.jpg

from my experience +/- 13 to 17 is matchmaker doing a pretty good job of gathering similar ranked players together, 12 or 18 is very borderline

and yeah, i think may of us do not feel matchmaker isn't really doing a good job with trying to aim for 50% win rate, at time i would get the same guys, or even worse, same duos on the opposite side 3-5 consecutive matches; i would just give up and watch a random 20min youtube video then come back hoping not to see those faces again

i think it was the sunday before, i pvp for close to 4 hours to get a daily win; could have gotten it at the first match til a thrower decides to run around spawn area when we were close to 200 points up and we got out rotated

 

 

not fun

 

 

I think what Anet needs to do is provide transparency by show the player's ranks on the score board, and be more proactive with punishing bots/manipulators/q dodgers if they want to shutdown community's complaints about how bad the match up are

we need a Board of the Shameless Ones in PvP lobby xD