Deadeye needs to be reworked

[Coolguy.8702]

Or better yet, deleted and replaced by a proper spec. Everything about it is bad and just clunky, the rifle and stolen skills are shit in all 3 modes, cantrips aside from the elite are all meh at best, malice takes too long to build and doesn't last as long as it should and mark also needs to be unblockable to make up for the cast. Right now the only thing this "elite spec" is good for is role playing in pve, which is pretty damn sad

[Doctor Hide.6345]

Or they could nerf DD into oblivion. I would rather have them keep DE and rifle which is something I have wanted for awhile for Thief, and have A-net nerf the life out of DD to make it unplayable then have DE totally removed. If the people that enjoy rifle and DE can't have it exit, then I say the people that like DD can't have their spec either to make things fair.

[Cynz.9437]

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:Or they could nerf DD into oblivion. I would rather have them keep DE and rifle which is something I have wanted for awhile for Thief, and have A-net nerf the life out of DD to make it unplayable then have DE totally removed. If the people that enjoy rifle and DE can't have it exit, then I say the people that like DD can't have their spec either to make things fair.

Even if they removed DD completely, people wouldn't play DE, especially in pvp. DE may have been not so bad but compared to everything else, and i don't mean just thieves, i mean other classes, DE is just not viable for reasons stated above.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:Or they could nerf DD into oblivion. I would rather have them keep DE and rifle which is something I have wanted for awhile for Thief, and have A-net nerf the life out of DD to make it unplayable then have DE totally removed. If the people that enjoy rifle and DE can't have it exit, then I say the people that like DD can't have their spec either to make things fair.

Even if they removed DD completely, people wouldn't play DE, especially in pvp. DE may have been not so bad but compared to everything else, and i don't mean just thieves, i mean other classes, DE is just not viable for reasons stated above.

Which is why I would rather have people promote that it gets buffed instead of removed completely. I like it the way it is. I even use it in fractals with my Guildmates. Been to busy to organize raids. The issues are not as bad as people make it out to be for a complete removal of the spec. To those people who want it gone, I recommend the nerf DD proposal because clearly that's what they enjoy. Yes, I am becoming more and more bitter towards those people.

[Tony Nova.1832]

So maybe it's just me or does anyone else get annoyed by the free action of our abilities? We can shoot(swing) with no enemy targeted, problem is our abilities use initiative. I don't how many times i wasted initiative before actually hitting my target because of it especially when i'm just barely out of range. I would love it if they removed that aspect entirely. Even more, they should "grey" out the ability when out of range. The lil red dash under the ability is plain silly, but hey....

[Cynz.9437]

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:Or they could nerf DD into oblivion. I would rather have them keep DE and rifle which is something I have wanted for awhile for Thief, and have A-net nerf the life out of DD to make it unplayable then have DE totally removed. If the people that enjoy rifle and DE can't have it exit, then I say the people that like DD can't have their spec either to make things fair.

Even if they removed DD completely, people wouldn't play DE, especially in pvp. DE may have been not so bad but compared to everything else, and i don't mean just thieves, i mean other classes, DE is just not viable for reasons stated above.

Which is why I would rather have people promote that it gets buffed instead of removed completely. I like it the way it is. I even use it in fractals with my Guildmates. Been to busy to organize raids. The issues are not as bad as people make it out to be for a complete removal of the spec. To those people who want it gone, I recommend the nerf DD proposal because clearly that's what they enjoy. Yes, I am becoming more and more bitter towards those people.

I probably would tweak DE, nerf HoT elites, revert some changes so we would be back to semi-skillful play pre-Hot but it will never happen because devs designed pve around skill spam/aoe/low CD invuls/blocks +other mechanics that make game too easy and forgiving (and ruined pvp while at it).

[Coolguy.8702]

Never said they had to remove de, I just said that because anet likely won't bother reworking it. If they want deadeye to be good all they have to do is this.

-Make deaths judgement pierce and be unblockable because this skill reveals, has a cast time, and deals too much damage to just be reflected or blocked by some Mesmer clone, lower initiative cost to 5 or 4

• Increase auto attack damage by 100%
• Remove initiative cost on kneel or make snipers scope baseline and replace it with a trait that lets rifle skills inflict an aoe explosion around the target
• Get rid of the stolen skills and replace it with something else
• Mark needs to be unblockable or at least make it instant
• Kneel also needs some kind of damage reduction and stability since it's pretty easy to get shut down
• Malice needs to be built much faster and last longer as well
• Rifle skills also need to pierce which would make the set feel a lot less clunky to play
• Reduce the cast time and cds of all the cantrips besides shadow meld.

This is just for pvp\wvw tho, in pve it'll need a huge damage increase since it's pretty bad in that game mode

[Asur.9178]

Lol...people calling for nerfs on DD makes me laugh.

Nerfing DD won't suddenly make DE better to be played.

You'd be better of playing core thief or a completely different class.

[Maugetarr.6823]

@Coolguy.8702 said:

-Make deaths judgement pierce and be unblockable because this skill reveals, has a cast time, and deals too much damage to just be reflected or blocked by some Mesmer clone, lower initiative cost to 5 or 4

I could get behind being able to make kneeling skills pierce 2 targets by a trait like reworking silent scope.

• Increase auto attack damage by 100%

Increasing either kneeling or standing auto by this much would be ridiculous. Standing auto attack is around a 1.5 multiplier and kneeling is around 1.9 (compare tool tips to heartseeker). They have a hit to hit time of 0.92 seconds making the DPS (in terms of multipliers) about 1.6 and 2.0. Doubling the damage would average it out to be 50% more than a backstab every second.

• Remove initiative cost on kneel or make snipers scope baseline and replace it with a trait that lets rifle skills inflict an aoe explosion around the target

I like the idea of making Snipers Cover baseline and being able to trait piercing shots with silent scope, so it's really potayto/potahto on this one

• Get rid of the stolen skills and replace it with something else

The stolen skills could probably just use duration increases. They're not terrible, but not great.

• Mark needs to be unblockable or at least make it instant

Maybe. I'm sort of neutral about it having a cast time. I think with improvements to stolen skills it would be in a good place since those are instant.

• Kneel also needs some kind of damage reduction and stability since it's pretty easy to get shut down

Reworking iron sights to be something like "kneeling reduces incoming damage and condition damage" like dash could be a marked improvement and fit this suggestion

• Malice needs to be built much faster and last longer as well

With revealed malice it can reach max pretty quickly, but I don't see why baseline stack speed couldn't be better. Maybe 1.5 and 3 seconds instead of the 2 and 4 they have now.

• Rifle skills also need to pierce which would make the set feel a lot less clunky to play

Maybe traited or baseline. As earlier, I don't see more piercing on the rifle as a bad thing. At least on the autos.

• Reduce the cast time and cds of all the cantrips besides shadow meld.

Yep

This is just for pvp\wvw tho, in pve it'll need a huge damage increase since it's pretty bad in that game mode

I don't really think it needs to be split yet as the things I suggested in response to your post would put it in an alright place in all game modes (imo). Double Tap needs to be reworked entirely as it's terrible in terms of damage and utility. Putting 3RB in as the standing skill and putting a different skill entirely in as the kneeling one would help both the standing and kneeling skill bar.

[ori.5829]

Oh yes so clunky, got 25k crit by deadeye in WvW with 3k armor. So clunky, and low damage.

[Vertep.2498]

@Aury.1367 said:Oh yes so clunky, got 25k crit by deadeye in WvW with 3k armor. So clunky, and low damage.

and you should know it took him in good place just around 12 seconds to prepare this shot up to 20+ seconds of waiting to be able to shoat that high damage in single skill which at all its absurd for me because exactly this is destroying DE being compete with daredevild as for normal fight without just standing and waiting in 1 place fosomeone to 1shot

[Shirlias.8104]

@Asur.9178 said:Lol...people calling for nerfs on DD makes me laugh.

Nerfing DD won't suddenly make DE better to be played.

You'd be better of playing core thief or a completely different class.

Agree.It could be perceived as bad that after 1 whole expansion we still have the same build for spvp and pve ( wvw you can bring whatever you want, but deadeye could be nice, thouh you can't hit multiple targets with rifle, but with sb as secondary weapon it should work ), but since DD hit the right spot, though could be annoying to play the same build over and over, i see no real issues.

Maybe after some reworks s/d could finally return viable, but i am not sure i'd want to see deadeye the best choice for spvp and pve, nope nope ).

[Static.9841]

@Doctor Hide.6345 said:Or they could nerf DD into oblivion. I would rather have them keep DE and rifle which is something I have wanted for awhile for Thief, and have A-net nerf the life out of DD to make it unplayable then have DE totally removed. If the people that enjoy rifle and DE can't have it exit, then I say the people that like DD can't have their spec either to make things fair.

How on earth is nerfing Daredevil going to make anyone suddenly switch to Deadeye? That's such a ridiculous suggestion. Nerf Daredevil and you can say goodbye to thief in meta and any kind of high level gameplay. How can you approve of and justify nerfing a viable thief build and practically destroying thief just so you can feel better about rifle?

[Doctor Hide.6345]

@Static.9841 said:

@"Doctor Hide.6345" said:Or they could nerf DD into oblivion. I would rather have them keep DE and rifle which is something I have wanted for awhile for Thief, and have A-net nerf the life out of DD to make it unplayable then have DE totally removed. If the people that enjoy rifle and DE can't have it exit, then I say the people that like DD can't have their spec either to make things fair.

How on earth is nerfing Daredevil going to make anyone suddenly switch to Deadeye? That's such a ridiculous suggestion. Nerf Daredevil and you can say goodbye to thief in meta and any kind of high level gameplay. How can you approve of and justify nerfing a viable thief build and practically destroying thief just so you can feel better about rifle?

You clearly didn't read the OPs statement. He said "Or better yet, deleted and replaced by a proper spec." meaning get rid of Deadeye altogether. If someone wants to get rid of DE altogether, I then suggested they nerf DD into oblivion if that truly someones goal so no one gets what they want. I am sick and tired of people shoving DD down my throat, so if I can't get DE to remain as a spec, then people can't get DD to remain as a spec either.

Luckily, the OP clarified later down after that post what he wanted with his opening being a little misleading.

[Sobx.1758]

@Asur.9178 said:Lol...people calling for nerfs on DD makes me laugh.

Nerfing DD won't suddenly make DE better to be played.

You'd be better of playing core thief or a completely different class.

Exactly, people thinking that "nerfing one spec to the ground just so more players pick another shit spec" is a viable solution just blows my mind.

[cyberwolf.5830]

malice should be an addition to steal, like add F3 and F4 with malice and new garbage stolen skills, at least we could play as core thief in melee

[Doctor Hide.6345]

@cyberwolf.5830 said:malice should be an addition to steal, like add F3 and F4 with malice and new garbage stolen skills, at least we could play as core thief in melee

So steal F1 and malice F3? I doubt that would happen. I can see that being OP if there was no internal CD between the two to avoid casting F1 and then F3 spam.

[Zedek.8932]

@"Tony Nova.1832" said:So maybe it's just me or does anyone else get annoyed by the free action of our abilities? We can shoot(swing) with no enemy targeted, problem is our abilities use initiative. I don't how many times i wasted initiative before actually hitting my target because of it especially when i'm just barely out of range. I would love it if they removed that aspect entirely. Even more, they should "grey" out the ability when out of range. The lil red dash under the ability is plain silly, but hey....

Excelsior.

I know what you mean. Today I fired 6 bullets into a poorly placed root sprite and got "obstructed". One pixel later, when my initiative was gone, I could hit. Some sand eels walking back and forth obstacles and my Asura pulls the trigger right when my target walks behind an obstacle is far from being " a superb marksman".

I think it'd be cool for a kneeling deadeye not to shoot "out of range", "obstructed" and such bullets, especially when the auto attacks won't stop no matter what you do until you finally put away your weapon and exiting kneeling. I mean, Deadeye literally means "perfect aim", and then I shoot into (invisible hitboxes of) roots, leaves, tree stumps, little boulders or having problems to see if something is too far below my current standpoint and such. The range line is also hard to see IMO... When standing, due to the fact I am not "concentrating", I'd be fine with firing bullets into the environment by accident.

[Ohoni.6057]

I thought of an interesting way to rework it. "Headshot" buff. Make it so that the way Malice works is that it stacks up, and once you get to full Malice, OR if you kill an opponent while Marked, then you get a "Headshot" buff that lasts about ten seconds. This would cause Death's Judgement to deal MASSIVE damage for one shot, and expends the buff. I think that gives a much more substantive benefit than just a ramping damage buff that stays on until it wears off, since it delivers a lot more impact in a single packet (which is more fun, when it works), and since you can choose who gets hit by that packet, and it also gives a special bonus to chain-marking enemies, since you could stack up Headshots against ads, and then spend them on shots against their boss.

[Static.9841]

@"Doctor Hide.6345" said:You clearly didn't read the OPs statement. He said "Or better yet, deleted and replaced by a proper spec." meaning get rid of Deadeye altogether. If someone wants to get rid of DE altogether, I then suggested they nerf DD into oblivion if that truly someones goal so no one gets what they want. I am sick and tired of people shoving DD down my throat, so if I can't get DE to remain as a spec, then people can't get DD to remain as a spec either.

Luckily, the OP clarified later down after that post what he wanted with his opening being a little misleading.

I didn't need to read OPs statement to see how utterly inane your response was in calling to nerf Daredevil. The fact that you have the "If I can't play something, they shouldn't have anything either" mindset proves nothing other than you being disgustingly childish. DE is remaining as a spec, it's not going anywhere, so you're just churning out hyperbole and nonsense - you've jumped into a thread someone made about reworking a class to be more viable to react like "OMG it's getting changed completely reeeeeeeeeeee" despite no dev saying it's being changed or removed.