DE issues in wvw

[Qaju.2058]

@"ASP.8093" said:Are thieves steam-rolling everyone one-on-one or in small group battles?Are they effortlessly picking up kill after kill zerg-sailing?Are they making it impossible for other classes to do "roaming?"

No, but, you see, they're annoying.

Yes to each.Where did you see that a DE was supposed to be an ambient creature to enhance your panorama while you play? It's WvW. Be glad that 99% of DEs out there are just doing pitiful Somali pirates harassment instead of proper hunter killer submarining.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

You should play a DE. If you get Steam rolled by them, you are doing something very very wrong.

[Qaju.2058]

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:You should play a DE. If you get Steam rolled by them, you are doing something very very wrong.

Hope that wasn't intended to me %)

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:You should play a DE. If you get Steam rolled by them, you are doing something very very wrong.

Hope that wasn't intended to me %)

If you answered yes you are getting steam rolled, then yes it was towards you. They are a good counter to necros but that's about it. Other competetive builds will generally kill them. They have way too many counters. That's partially why they aren't very good in spvp. They are better in wvw because they can run away... tho that doesn't really help in a fight, just escaping which still means they lose imo.

If you are getting steamrolled (and assuming you are actually playing a competetive build), it probably means you need to learn how they work and need a deeper understanding of them and their many weaknesses. If you would like, i can help you with that, feel free to pm me here or in game. I also made a post about it too that you can read through.

[Senqu.8054]

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:You should play a DE. If you get Steam rolled by them, you are doing something very very wrong.

Hope that wasn't intended to me %)

If you answered yes you are getting steam rolled, then yes it was towards you. They are a good counter to necros but that's about it. Other competetive builds will generally kill them. They have way too many counters. That's partially why they aren't very good in spvp.

They are better in wvw because they can run away

... tho that doesn't really help in a fight, just escaping which still means they lose imo.Exactly this. Thief definitely needs a buff but to receive that it needs to lose the ability to always and ever be able to escape. The only real misplay you can do in wvw as a thief is to not save a last port and/or stealth to escape, everything else is based on the build the enemy uses.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@Senqu.8054 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:You should play a DE. If you get Steam rolled by them, you are doing something very very wrong.

Hope that wasn't intended to me %)

If you answered yes you are getting steam rolled, then yes it was towards you. They are a good counter to necros but that's about it. Other competetive builds will generally kill them. They have way too many counters. That's partially why they aren't very good in spvp.

They are better in wvw because they can run away

... tho that doesn't really help in a fight, just escaping which still means they lose imo.Exactly this. Thief definitely needs a buff but to receive that it needs to lose the ability to always and ever be able to escape. The only real misplay you can do in wvw as a thief is to not save a last port and/or stealth to escape, everything else is based on the build the enemy uses.

I disagree with the second part. Part of what makes a thief...a thief, is being able to escape. There is nothing wrong with that. It's partly what sets the class apart. Also, generally, to escape you need a sb, which isn't as useful as other weapons in combat, or you need to put a bunch of skills on CD and kill your initiative, so there are trade offs.

I think maybe the smoke field from Pistol 5 should last half as long but that's about it, and then dagger can get its buffs.Rifle also needs some buffs. I'd like to see traits give a tiny bit of unblockable. Such as Mailicious Intent adding on "...and 3 sec of unblockability". Just can't add too much, only a little. And then some damage buffs here and there like to rifle kneel 2 (which also needs a rof increase). Also rifle stealth attack now needs a buff in some way.

Ofc these are just my opinions.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

DEs problem is infinite kite with cripple and ports + stealth and damage. it becomes broken when those two things are combined, so one or the other should be chosen.

[ASP.8093]

Actually, the most OP thing you can do as a Deadeye is to spam Immob on a Warrior trying to run away after YOLOing too far into to your line while 5 other people DPS them to death. (Works on Rangers and Necros, too. Not so much any class that has blocks or resistance.)

Deadeye Support Class 2020.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:DEs problem is infinite kite with cripple and ports + stealth and damage. it becomes broken when those two things are combined, so one or the other should be chosen.

How do they have infinite kite? Even with food they still only have 2 dodges. And reveal is still a thing. They only have 1 port skill generally. Cripple doesn't really have an effect against several builds, particularly ones that have leaps, ports, removal, can dodge to where they want to go, etc.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:DEs problem is infinite kite with cripple and ports + stealth and damage. it becomes broken when those two things are combined, so one or the other should be chosen.

How do they have infinite kite? Even with food they still only have 2 dodges. And reveal is still a thing. They only have 1 port skill generally. Cripple doesn't really have an effect against several builds, particularly ones that have leaps, ports, removal, can dodge to where they want to go, etc.

Most people conflate both deadeye and daredevil abilities into one uber build in order to feel better about complaining about it.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:DEs problem is infinite kite with cripple and ports + stealth and damage. it becomes broken when those two things are combined, so one or the other should be chosen.

How do they have infinite kite? Even with food they still only have 2 dodges. And reveal is still a thing. They only have 1 port skill generally. Cripple doesn't really have an effect against several builds, particularly ones that have leaps, ports, removal, can dodge to where they want to go, etc.

you're saying perma cripple doesn't work against several builds? ok. that plus deaths retreat, shadowstep, 5 stealth's, and decent ini regen from shadow arts and trickery. lol reveal isn't a thing, not cuz most classes don't have it but deadeye removes it.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:DEs problem is infinite kite with cripple and ports + stealth and damage. it becomes broken when those two things are combined, so one or the other should be chosen.

How do they have infinite kite? Even with food they still only have 2 dodges. And reveal is still a thing. They only have 1 port skill generally. Cripple doesn't really have an effect against several builds, particularly ones that have leaps, ports, removal, can dodge to where they want to go, etc.

you're saying perma cripple doesn't work against several builds? ok. that plus deaths retreat, shadowstep, 5 stealth's, and decent ini regen from shadow arts and trickery. lol reveal isn't a thing, not cuz most classes don't have it but deadeye removes it.

You should play deadeye...

[Qaju.2058]

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:You should play a DE. If you get Steam rolled by them, you are doing something very very wrong.

Hope that wasn't intended to me %)

If you answered yes you are getting steam rolled, then yes it was towards you. They are a good counter to necros but that's about it. Other competetive builds will generally kill them. They have way too many counters. That's partially why they aren't very good in spvp. They are better in wvw because they can run away... tho that doesn't really help in a fight, just escaping which still means they lose imo.

If you are getting steamrolled (and assuming you are actually playing a competetive build), it probably means you need to learn how they work and need a deeper understanding of them and their many weaknesses. If you would like, i can help you with that, feel free to pm me here or in game. I also made a post about it too that you can read through.

I replied yes, because I'm the DE main that does all those. I've yet to find someone that hard counters me on EU when I roam.

You've already admitted on multiple occasions you had hard counters on your own DE playstyle, and why you switch to your necro at times.Don't take it as a slight, it isn't one. You are newer to DE. I main my rifle DE everywhere in GW2 since the POF demo week end.

Adapted through every overhauls this specialization had been through. The big balance patch has made it even easier for my own DE.

I also have a confession to make.The biggest lie I see tossed around by my fellow thief players for such a long time now is: " just dodge DJ".Yes it has a loud audio cue, a distinct visual cue and a considerable warning period to know it's incoming so you have time to dodge it.But what they don't tell you is that: A) you don't lose any malice for missing a DJ and B ) I have 3 dodges, and regen endurance way faster than my opponent can and have more means to get back into stealth to fire off DJs back to back until they connect and connect they will.Many bunker Weavers, Firebrands, Tempests and Scrappers have tried to outlast me. It just doesn't work. Eventually they fold down or have to run OCC or inside spawn or keep/tower.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:You should play a DE. If you get Steam rolled by them, you are doing something very very wrong.

Hope that wasn't intended to me %)

If you answered yes you are getting steam rolled, then yes it was towards you. They are a good counter to necros but that's about it. Other competetive builds will generally kill them. They have way too many counters. That's partially why they aren't very good in spvp. They are better in wvw because they can run away... tho that doesn't really help in a fight, just escaping which still means they lose imo.

If you are getting steamrolled (and assuming you are actually playing a competetive build), it probably means you need to learn how they work and need a deeper understanding of them and their many weaknesses. If you would like, i can help you with that, feel free to pm me here or in game. I also made a post about it too that you can read through.

I replied yes, because I'm the DE main that does all those. I've yet to find someone that hard counters me on EU when I roam.

You've already admitted on multiple occasions you had hard counters on your own DE playstyle, and why you switch to your necro at times.Don't take it as a slight, it isn't one. You are newer to DE. I main my rifle DE everywhere in GW2 since the POF demo week end.

Adapted through every overhauls this specialization had been through. The big balance patch has made it even easier for my own DE.

I also have a confession to make.The biggest lie I see tossed around by my fellow thief players for such a long time now is: " just dodge DJ".Yes it has a loud audio cue, a distinct visual cue and a considerable warning period to know it's incoming so you have time to dodge it.But what they don't tell you is that: A) you don't lose any malice for missing a DJ and B ) I have 3 dodges, and regen endurance way faster than my opponent can and have more means to get back into stealth to fire off DJs back to back until they connect and connect they will.Many bunker Weavers, Firebrands, Tempests and Scrappers have tried to outlast me. It just doesn't work. Eventually they fold down or have to run OCC or inside spawn or keep/tower.

Maybe everyone is terrible on EU. :-p. Jk jk.I find good firebrands have tons of heals and so much mobility and CC (rangers too esp since longbow 2 tracks in stealth) they can constantly pressure me when I'm revealed. I have yet to beat one that is really good and knows what they are doing. Same with good Guardians that know when to use their blocks and other defensive skills and brought mobility. I also find i can't beat other thieves (who play correctly) because they have higher burst than me. I can usually beat necros and eles. I'm bad against mesmers but that's just cuz its me and not the build but am getting better at not targeting clones. Also some warriors i kill but some are spec'd to take down thieves with kitten tons of reveal and mobility and they will get me. I find some people are used to DEs and have figured out the weaknesses and exploit them relentlessly, allowing them to win.

Also, how the hell do you have 3 dodges if playing DE. Clearly you are playing DD and not DE and you just gave yourself away. And i agree, D/p Daredevil builds need work in the opposite direction. Halve how long the field stays for Pistol 5 maybe. Also that weaponset will kill DE everytime if used well due to higher burst or higher condis (idk how much the nerf hit condi thief tho).

[Qaju.2058]

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:You should play a DE. If you get Steam rolled by them, you are doing something very very wrong.

Hope that wasn't intended to me %)

If you answered yes you are getting steam rolled, then yes it was towards you. They are a good counter to necros but that's about it. Other competetive builds will generally kill them. They have way too many counters. That's partially why they aren't very good in spvp. They are better in wvw because they can run away... tho that doesn't really help in a fight, just escaping which still means they lose imo.

If you are getting steamrolled (and assuming you are actually playing a competetive build), it probably means you need to learn how they work and need a deeper understanding of them and their many weaknesses. If you would like, i can help you with that, feel free to pm me here or in game. I also made a post about it too that you can read through.

I replied yes, because I'm the DE main that does all those. I've yet to find someone that hard counters me on EU when I roam.

You've already admitted on multiple occasions you had hard counters on your own DE playstyle, and why you switch to your necro at times.Don't take it as a slight, it isn't one. You are newer to DE. I main my rifle DE everywhere in GW2 since the POF demo week end.

Adapted through every overhauls this specialization had been through. The big balance patch has made it even easier for my own DE.

I also have a confession to make.The biggest lie I see tossed around by my fellow thief players for such a long time now is: " just dodge DJ".Yes it has a loud audio cue, a distinct visual cue and a considerable warning period to know it's incoming so you have time to dodge it.But what they don't tell you is that: A) you don't lose any malice for missing a DJ and B ) I have 3 dodges, and regen endurance way faster than my opponent can and have more means to get back into stealth to fire off DJs back to back until they connect and connect they will.Many bunker Weavers, Firebrands, Tempests and Scrappers have tried to outlast me. It just doesn't work. Eventually they fold down or have to run OCC or inside spawn or keep/tower.

Maybe everyone is terrible on EU. :-p. Jk jk.I find good firebrands have tons of heals and so much mobility and CC (rangers too esp since longbow 2 tracks in stealth) they can constantly pressure me when I'm revealed. I have yet to beat one that is really good and knows what they are doing. Same with good Guardians that know when to use their blocks and other defensive skills and brought mobility. I also find i can't beat other thieves (who play correctly) because they have higher burst than me. I can usually beat necros and eles. I'm bad against mesmers but that's just cuz its me and not the build but am getting better at not targeting clones. Also some warriors i kill but some are spec'd to take down thieves with kitten tons of reveal and mobility and they will get me. I find some people are used to DEs and have figured out the weaknesses and exploit them relentlessly, allowing them to win.

Also, how the hell do you have 3 dodges if playing DE. Clearly you are playing DD and not DE and you just gave yourself away. And i agree, D/p Daredevil builds need work in the opposite direction. Halve how long the field stays for Pistol 5 maybe. Also that weaponset will kill DE everytime if used well due to higher burst or higher condis (idk how much the nerf hit condi thief tho).

I'll let you cogitate again and simmer until you find out how I can have 3 dodges as a rifle DE ^_^ it's also the key as to why I'll stand by saying it's still the best roamer for the past two years now.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:You should play a DE. If you get Steam rolled by them, you are doing something very very wrong.

Hope that wasn't intended to me %)

If you answered yes you are getting steam rolled, then yes it was towards you. They are a good counter to necros but that's about it. Other competetive builds will generally kill them. They have way too many counters. That's partially why they aren't very good in spvp. They are better in wvw because they can run away... tho that doesn't really help in a fight, just escaping which still means they lose imo.

If you are getting steamrolled (and assuming you are actually playing a competetive build), it probably means you need to learn how they work and need a deeper understanding of them and their many weaknesses. If you would like, i can help you with that, feel free to pm me here or in game. I also made a post about it too that you can read through.

I replied yes, because I'm the DE main that does all those. I've yet to find someone that hard counters me on EU when I roam.

You've already admitted on multiple occasions you had hard counters on your own DE playstyle, and why you switch to your necro at times.Don't take it as a slight, it isn't one. You are newer to DE. I main my rifle DE everywhere in GW2 since the POF demo week end.

Adapted through every overhauls this specialization had been through. The big balance patch has made it even easier for my own DE.

I also have a confession to make.The biggest lie I see tossed around by my fellow thief players for such a long time now is: " just dodge DJ".Yes it has a loud audio cue, a distinct visual cue and a considerable warning period to know it's incoming so you have time to dodge it.But what they don't tell you is that: A) you don't lose any malice for missing a DJ and B ) I have 3 dodges, and regen endurance way faster than my opponent can and have more means to get back into stealth to fire off DJs back to back until they connect and connect they will.Many bunker Weavers, Firebrands, Tempests and Scrappers have tried to outlast me. It just doesn't work. Eventually they fold down or have to run OCC or inside spawn or keep/tower.

Maybe everyone is terrible on EU. :-p. Jk jk.I find good firebrands have tons of heals and so much mobility and CC (rangers too esp since longbow 2 tracks in stealth) they can constantly pressure me when I'm revealed. I have yet to beat one that is really good and knows what they are doing. Same with good Guardians that know when to use their blocks and other defensive skills and brought mobility. I also find i can't beat other thieves (who play correctly) because they have higher burst than me. I can usually beat necros and eles. I'm bad against mesmers but that's just cuz its me and not the build but am getting better at not targeting clones. Also some warriors i kill but some are spec'd to take down thieves with kitten tons of reveal and mobility and they will get me. I find some people are used to DEs and have figured out the weaknesses and exploit them relentlessly, allowing them to win.

Also, how the hell do you have 3 dodges if playing DE. Clearly you are playing DD and not DE and you just gave yourself away. And i agree, D/p Daredevil builds need work in the opposite direction. Halve how long the field stays for Pistol 5 maybe. Also that weaponset will kill DE everytime if used well due to higher burst or higher condis (idk how much the nerf hit condi thief tho).

I'll let you cogitate again and simmer until you find out how I can have 3 dodges as a rifle DE ^_^ it's also the key as to why I'll stand by saying it's still the best roamer for the past two years now.

Either because you hack or you dont know what you are talking about. Having access to vigor and food/ consumables doesn't count since everyone has access to them and they are still not the same thing. If they need to bring it they should, but generally other classes don't bring the food that gives them endurance regen due to not needing it. Any decent player will save an extra evasive skill, block, projectile reflect, stealth etc to make up for the fact thieves generally use that. But hard to get around if competent. I feel like you are not playing against competent players in competetive environments. DEs and other thieves are good roamers because they can often, tho not always, get away, just like mobile warriors. Not because of their 1v1 skills; otherwise they would be great in pvp too but they aren't. They can often disengage and let their enemy capture but can move on to the next objective instead of being sent back to spawn.Also still not = to 3 dodges.

[ferbz.6987]

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:You should play a DE. If you get Steam rolled by them, you are doing something very very wrong.

Hope that wasn't intended to me %)

If you answered yes you are getting steam rolled, then yes it was towards you. They are a good counter to necros but that's about it. Other competetive builds will generally kill them. They have way too many counters. That's partially why they aren't very good in spvp. They are better in wvw because they can run away... tho that doesn't really help in a fight, just escaping which still means they lose imo.

If you are getting steamrolled (and assuming you are actually playing a competetive build), it probably means you need to learn how they work and need a deeper understanding of them and their many weaknesses. If you would like, i can help you with that, feel free to pm me here or in game. I also made a post about it too that you can read through.

I replied yes, because I'm the DE main that does all those. I've yet to find someone that hard counters me on EU when I roam.

You've already admitted on multiple occasions you had hard counters on your own DE playstyle, and why you switch to your necro at times.Don't take it as a slight, it isn't one. You are newer to DE. I main my rifle DE everywhere in GW2 since the POF demo week end.

Adapted through every overhauls this specialization had been through. The big balance patch has made it even easier for my own DE.

I also have a confession to make.The biggest lie I see tossed around by my fellow thief players for such a long time now is: " just dodge DJ".Yes it has a loud audio cue, a distinct visual cue and a considerable warning period to know it's incoming so you have time to dodge it.But what they don't tell you is that: A) you don't lose any malice for missing a DJ and B ) I have 3 dodges, and regen endurance way faster than my opponent can and have more means to get back into stealth to fire off DJs back to back until they connect and connect they will.Many bunker Weavers, Firebrands, Tempests and Scrappers have tried to outlast me. It just doesn't work. Eventually they fold down or have to run OCC or inside spawn or keep/tower.

Maybe everyone is terrible on EU. :-p. Jk jk.I find good firebrands have tons of heals and so much mobility and CC (rangers too esp since longbow 2 tracks in stealth) they can constantly pressure me when I'm revealed. I have yet to beat one that is really good and knows what they are doing. Same with good Guardians that know when to use their blocks and other defensive skills and brought mobility. I also find i can't beat other thieves (who play correctly) because they have higher burst than me. I can usually beat necros and eles. I'm bad against mesmers but that's just cuz its me and not the build but am getting better at not targeting clones. Also some warriors i kill but some are spec'd to take down thieves with kitten tons of reveal and mobility and they will get me. I find some people are used to DEs and have figured out the weaknesses and exploit them relentlessly, allowing them to win.

Also, how the hell do you have 3 dodges if playing DE. Clearly you are playing DD and not DE and you just gave yourself away. And i agree, D/p Daredevil builds need work in the opposite direction. Halve how long the field stays for Pistol 5 maybe. Also that weaponset will kill DE everytime if used well due to higher burst or higher condis (idk how much the nerf hit condi thief tho).

I'll let you cogitate again and simmer until you find out how I can have 3 dodges as a rifle DE ^_^ it's also the key as to why I'll stand by saying it's still the best roamer for the past two years now.

2 rifles.

Edit. With energy sigils on each.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@ferbz.6987 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:You should play a DE. If you get Steam rolled by them, you are doing something very very wrong.

Hope that wasn't intended to me %)

If you answered yes you are getting steam rolled, then yes it was towards you. They are a good counter to necros but that's about it. Other competetive builds will generally kill them. They have way too many counters. That's partially why they aren't very good in spvp. They are better in wvw because they can run away... tho that doesn't really help in a fight, just escaping which still means they lose imo.

If you are getting steamrolled (and assuming you are actually playing a competetive build), it probably means you need to learn how they work and need a deeper understanding of them and their many weaknesses. If you would like, i can help you with that, feel free to pm me here or in game. I also made a post about it too that you can read through.

I replied yes, because I'm the DE main that does all those. I've yet to find someone that hard counters me on EU when I roam.

You've already admitted on multiple occasions you had hard counters on your own DE playstyle, and why you switch to your necro at times.Don't take it as a slight, it isn't one. You are newer to DE. I main my rifle DE everywhere in GW2 since the POF demo week end.

Adapted through every overhauls this specialization had been through. The big balance patch has made it even easier for my own DE.

I also have a confession to make.The biggest lie I see tossed around by my fellow thief players for such a long time now is: " just dodge DJ".Yes it has a loud audio cue, a distinct visual cue and a considerable warning period to know it's incoming so you have time to dodge it.But what they don't tell you is that: A) you don't lose any malice for missing a DJ and B ) I have 3 dodges, and regen endurance way faster than my opponent can and have more means to get back into stealth to fire off DJs back to back until they connect and connect they will.Many bunker Weavers, Firebrands, Tempests and Scrappers have tried to outlast me. It just doesn't work. Eventually they fold down or have to run OCC or inside spawn or keep/tower.

Maybe everyone is terrible on EU. :-p. Jk jk.I find good firebrands have tons of heals and so much mobility and CC (rangers too esp since longbow 2 tracks in stealth) they can constantly pressure me when I'm revealed. I have yet to beat one that is really good and knows what they are doing. Same with good Guardians that know when to use their blocks and other defensive skills and brought mobility. I also find i can't beat other thieves (who play correctly) because they have higher burst than me. I can usually beat necros and eles. I'm bad against mesmers but that's just cuz its me and not the build but am getting better at not targeting clones. Also some warriors i kill but some are spec'd to take down thieves with kitten tons of reveal and mobility and they will get me. I find some people are used to DEs and have figured out the weaknesses and exploit them relentlessly, allowing them to win.

Also, how the hell do you have 3 dodges if playing DE. Clearly you are playing DD and not DE and you just gave yourself away. And i agree, D/p Daredevil builds need work in the opposite direction. Halve how long the field stays for Pistol 5 maybe. Also that weaponset will kill DE everytime if used well due to higher burst or higher condis (idk how much the nerf hit condi thief tho).

I'll let you cogitate again and simmer until you find out how I can have 3 dodges as a rifle DE ^_^ it's also the key as to why I'll stand by saying it's still the best roamer for the past two years now.

2 rifles.

Edit. With energy sigils on each.

Yea but you aren't gaining an advantage when other people can do the same thing. That's not something that's intrinsic to thieves, just like consumables. If other builds don't utilize that, it's because they are (hopefully haha) using better options for their build and for what kind of build they are optimizing to fight against.

PS, most DEs i have talked to in game don't bring 2 rifles, so you are speaking for a very very very small minority anyway in my experience. I'm talking about the common place DE. Though it would be interesting to see what the damage loss is using energy sigils instead of air/fire/force etc.

This goes back to the rock paper scissor game that is pvp. Your build will be weak against certain builds and strong against others. It's all how you put it together. If you want to be strong against stealth builds (thief, mesmer, ranger) then you have to build yourself for that, and yes you will be weaker against other builds. If you make a build strong against warriors, Guardians, etc, you will be weak against potentially stealth builds and many niche builds. Similarly, if you make a builds that is strong against melee, you will typically be weaker against ranged. That's how the game works, tho it will come down to skill level too.

[Qaju.2058]

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@ferbz.6987 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

@aleron.1438 said:

@SlitheSlivier.1908 said:You should play a DE. If you get Steam rolled by them, you are doing something very very wrong.

Hope that wasn't intended to me %)

If you answered yes you are getting steam rolled, then yes it was towards you. They are a good counter to necros but that's about it. Other competetive builds will generally kill them. They have way too many counters. That's partially why they aren't very good in spvp. They are better in wvw because they can run away... tho that doesn't really help in a fight, just escaping which still means they lose imo.

If you are getting steamrolled (and assuming you are actually playing a competetive build), it probably means you need to learn how they work and need a deeper understanding of them and their many weaknesses. If you would like, i can help you with that, feel free to pm me here or in game. I also made a post about it too that you can read through.

I replied yes, because I'm the DE main that does all those. I've yet to find someone that hard counters me on EU when I roam.

You've already admitted on multiple occasions you had hard counters on your own DE playstyle, and why you switch to your necro at times.Don't take it as a slight, it isn't one. You are newer to DE. I main my rifle DE everywhere in GW2 since the POF demo week end.

Adapted through every overhauls this specialization had been through. The big balance patch has made it even easier for my own DE.

I also have a confession to make.The biggest lie I see tossed around by my fellow thief players for such a long time now is: " just dodge DJ".Yes it has a loud audio cue, a distinct visual cue and a considerable warning period to know it's incoming so you have time to dodge it.But what they don't tell you is that: A) you don't lose any malice for missing a DJ and B ) I have 3 dodges, and regen endurance way faster than my opponent can and have more means to get back into stealth to fire off DJs back to back until they connect and connect they will.Many bunker Weavers, Firebrands, Tempests and Scrappers have tried to outlast me. It just doesn't work. Eventually they fold down or have to run OCC or inside spawn or keep/tower.

Maybe everyone is terrible on EU. :-p. Jk jk.I find good firebrands have tons of heals and so much mobility and CC (rangers too esp since longbow 2 tracks in stealth) they can constantly pressure me when I'm revealed. I have yet to beat one that is really good and knows what they are doing. Same with good Guardians that know when to use their blocks and other defensive skills and brought mobility. I also find i can't beat other thieves (who play correctly) because they have higher burst than me. I can usually beat necros and eles. I'm bad against mesmers but that's just cuz its me and not the build but am getting better at not targeting clones. Also some warriors i kill but some are spec'd to take down thieves with kitten tons of reveal and mobility and they will get me. I find some people are used to DEs and have figured out the weaknesses and exploit them relentlessly, allowing them to win.

Also, how the hell do you have 3 dodges if playing DE. Clearly you are playing DD and not DE and you just gave yourself away. And i agree, D/p Daredevil builds need work in the opposite direction. Halve how long the field stays for Pistol 5 maybe. Also that weaponset will kill DE everytime if used well due to higher burst or higher condis (idk how much the nerf hit condi thief tho).

I'll let you cogitate again and simmer until you find out how I can have 3 dodges as a rifle DE ^_^ it's also the key as to why I'll stand by saying it's still the best roamer for the past two years now.

2 rifles.

Edit. With energy sigils on each.

Yea but you aren't gaining an advantage when other people can do the same thing. That's not something that's intrinsic to thieves, just like consumables. If other builds don't utilize that, it's because they are (hopefully haha) using better options for their build and for what kind of build they are optimizing to fight against.

PS, most DEs i have talked to in game don't bring 2 rifles, so you are speaking for a very very very small minority anyway in my experience. I'm talking about the common place DE. Though it would be interesting to see what the damage loss is using energy sigils instead of air/fire/force etc.

This goes back to the rock paper scissor game that is pvp. Your build will be weak against certain builds and strong against others. It's all how you put it together. If you want to be strong against stealth builds (thief, mesmer, ranger) then you have to build yourself for that, and yes you will be weaker against other builds. If you make a build strong against warriors, Guardians, etc, you will be weak against potentially stealth builds and many niche builds. Similarly, if you make a builds that is strong against melee, you will typically be weaker against ranged. That's how the game works, tho it will come down to skill level too.

No idea why you switched to PvP format now... I remind you that this thread's title is "DE issues in WvW".PvP doesn't have access to 50% energy sigil (25%), nor access to any food (40% endurance regen), nor access to rune of durability (dolyak if no core thief present, endurance if there is).

But you'd be very surprised at how well the same build can handle 1v1. And by no means do I consider myself good or a veteran at PvP (only p1-p2, no? finisher).But all that is irrelevant because you'd be wasting valuable pts gaines or denied per time spent trying to win your 1v1 in ranked conquest.

I'm only talking for myself, not other DEs.

Truth be told the WvW DE maining population on EU servers is very tiny.

Funnily most of the time what happens is someone tries in a group or solo to kill me, fail once or a few times, then swap to what they think easily hard counters a DE, and after that fail if they had a DE alt, will try to come back on it wanting to teach me a lesson.

On EU, the occasional DEs I encounter or that try to jump me die ridiculously fast and pathetically. I don't feel bad for them one iota. I know they build themselves for your rock paper scissors mentality. Trying to be hard counters to certain specs with much faster speed than I can. But they get hard countered themselves too.

It doesn't interest me one bit to play a build that fishes for one shot easy kills and that have to flee OOC against other builds n classes.

My goal is to be the best solo roamer. I rather do 2-3k DPS sustained. Survive bursts, assess situation for a counter or egress, while having a good mobility to reach contested objectives or intercept.A roamer has to be ready to face the unknown; stealthed gank(ers), a squad over the corner.

One thing I would like to be implemented that I don't think I've seen mentioned so far, is the creation of a new section of gizmoa novelties named WvW consumables with additional separate keybinding options.So that the traps and blueprints and candy corn gobbler and the other gobbler be listed in there for selection. So players would have a one key bind access to access on the fly.This would bypass the panic some players might have of opening their inventory bag to find the reveal traps/painters to toss. Would make it more seamless and promote active counter play.

[Qaju.2058]

Ps: Boon strip rending shade works nicely vs your reaper, core necro, daredevil and warrior.Don't think I'm that vulnerable when someone is trying to stick to me. built for sustain remember. It's a double edged sword. Opponent will get less reaction time to avoid DJ too.Daredevils don't have shadow meld. Toss a painter next to smokescreen/refuge/dp5 if you don't want to stand inside so they self reveal trying to stack stealth.

Of course dual rifle is an opportunity cost. My benefit is that I can out stealth other DE, Daredevils, Scrappers, trapper runers. And that to me far outweighs my limited engagement options.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

You are confusing me. Now you are agreeing with me that you are compromising, have "limited engagement options" (tho thats a vague phrase, could mean several different things), it's a "double edged sword."

Also i mentioned pvp. For a applicable reasons. I'll let you "cogitate" on that.Also just because you are built for sustain doesnt mean someone has less reaction time. Only quickness effects that (but if you are built for sustain you aren't running the 1 de trait that briefly gives it to you since that is meant for burst).

I commend your effort to be the best roamer. I think most roamers should aspire to be the best. It doesn't mean your profession or build is OP. It doesn't even mean you are winning all your fights. Thief is good at roaming because often it can run from the fights it can't win, as long as the player didn't get greedy. Just like those high mobility warriors too. And mesmers because they have decent mobility and can run from fights, depending on build ofc.

I think your idea of that hotkey/wvw bag is a good idea and has been brought up before. Personally i keep all my wvw stuff in the same bag in my inventory but it is still slow accessing it.