Dragonhunter is almost there. Here is what you can do.

[mrauls.6519]

I think DH is in a way better spot in the meta compared to before the big balance patch. Some thoughts I would like to vocalize:

• Please do something about Deflecting Shot. The cast time is bonkers. A lot of suggestions have been made on the Guardian subforum.
• If the movement speed from the trait Soaring Devastation was permanent, it would actually compete with Piercing Light; you could also move the 25% movement speed portion to Piercing Light and make it permanent. It just needs to be permanent.
• This is more quality of life than anything... Make Wings of Resolve an evade.

Listed above are 3 things that would reasonably bring DH up within the meta. Thank you for reading.

[Tayga.3192]

Wings of Resolve always feels like an evade for some reason lol

[mrauls.6519]

@Tayga.3192 said:Wings of Resolve always feels like an evade for some reason lol

Trust me, you'd see a major difference if it was a real evade :D

[Stand The Wall.6987]

also shave 10 sec off the pull and f3.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Please no.

I honestly do not want a dragon hunter meta.

They had their glory, whether you find it to be too short, I found it to be disgusting.

If something is keeping DH out of the META, it is external.

[mrauls.6519]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Please no.

I honestly do not want a dragon hunter meta.

They had their glory, whether you find it to be too short, I found it to be disgusting.

If something is keeping DH out of the META, it is external.

It won't be at that level from the 3 things I suggested

[Math.5123]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Please no.

I honestly do not want a dragon hunter meta.

They had their glory, whether you find it to be too short, I found it to be disgusting.

If something is keeping DH out of the META, it is external.

Imagine having a reliable counter to thieves. Can't have that.

[PLS.4095]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Please no.

I honestly do not want a dragon hunter meta.

They had their glory, whether you find it to be too short, I found it to be disgusting.

If something is keeping DH out of the META, it is external.

Imagine having a reliable counter to thieves. Can't have that.

Thief is actually counter by DH.Ho wait thief is actually counter by all class ( exept mesmer lul ).

The title should be : thief can just run, can you buff it now ?

[otto.5684]

I strongly disagree. Before DH was B tier build that played between roamer and team fights. It excelled against melee enemies. Now it does... no damage. Literally. TS, 5% damage nerf and 33% CD increase. DS no damage, which was significant part of the damage. Also, with 0.75 it is useless. ToF no initial damage. Sword barely tickles. This is while everyone is running semi bunker builds. The only thing it gain in is sustain (relatively).

I won’t say it absolutely does not work. But beside trolling I have not seen anyone make it work and it did not even work for me. And I am an experienced guardian who has been mostly running DH in the last few month.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@otto.5684 said:I strongly disagree. Before DH was B tier build that played between roamer and team fights. It excelled against melee enemies. Now it does... no damage. Literally. TS, 5% damage nerf and 33% CD increase. DS no damage, which was significant part of the damage. Also, with 0.75 it is useless. ToF no initial damage. Sword barely tickles. This is while everyone is running semi bunker builds. The only thing it gain in is sustain (relatively).

I won’t say it absolutely does not work. But beside trolling I have not seen anyone make it work and it did not even work for me. And I am an experienced guardian who has been mostly running DH in the last few month.

you realize everyone ate 30% dmg nerfs across the board?complaining about 1 tick of damage from DoT or 5% dmg reduction sounds silly tbh.

[Tayga.3192]

@otto.5684 said:I strongly disagree. Before DH was B tier build that played between roamer and team fights. It excelled against melee enemies. Now it does... no damage. Literally. TS, 5% damage nerf and 33% CD increase. DS no damage, which was significant part of the damage. Also, with 0.75 it is useless. ToF no initial damage. Sword barely tickles. This is while everyone is running semi bunker builds. The only thing it gain in is sustain (relatively).

I won’t say it absolutely does not work. But beside trolling I have not seen anyone make it work and it did not even work for me. And I am an experienced guardian who has been mostly running DH in the last few month.

Every good DH (plat+) I know says DH is pretty good except LB3. Just adding this here so there is no mistake.

[otto.5684]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@otto.5684 said:I strongly disagree. Before DH was B tier build that played between roamer and team fights. It excelled against melee enemies. Now it does... no damage. Literally. TS, 5% damage nerf and 33% CD increase. DS no damage, which was significant part of the damage. Also, with 0.75 it is useless. ToF no initial damage. Sword barely tickles. This is while everyone is running semi bunker builds. The only thing it gain in is sustain (relatively).

I won’t say it absolutely does not work. But beside trolling I have not seen anyone make it work and it did not even work for me. And I am an experienced guardian who has been mostly running DH in the last few month.

you realize everyone ate 30% dmg nerfs across the board?complaining about 1 tick of damage from DoT or 5% dmg reduction sounds silly tbh.

If you combine TS, DS and LB5 it is around 50% nerf.> @Tayga.3192 said:

@otto.5684 said:I strongly disagree. Before DH was B tier build that played between roamer and team fights. It excelled against melee enemies. Now it does... no damage. Literally. TS, 5% damage nerf and 33% CD increase. DS no damage, which was significant part of the damage. Also, with 0.75 it is useless. ToF no initial damage. Sword barely tickles. This is while everyone is running semi bunker builds. The only thing it gain in is sustain (relatively).

I won’t say it absolutely does not work. But beside trolling I have not seen anyone make it work and it did not even work for me. And I am an experienced guardian who has been mostly running DH in the last few month.

Every good DH (plat+) I know says DH is pretty good except LB3. Just adding this here so there is no mistake.

Sure, this why every guardian is running FB.

[Tayga.3192]

@otto.5684 said:If you combine TS, DS and LB5 it is around 50% nerf.Why would you combine them? Individual skills got 30% nerfs in a lot of classes.Blurred Frenzy got 50% nerf, it hits less than retaliation's damage back. Imagine this for a second.

Sure, this why every guardian is running FB.FB is stronger than DH, that's why they are running it.

[mrauls.6519]

I hope we see additional class reworks once this ranked season ends.

I hope to see positive DH changes in the near future. :)

[otto.5684]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@otto.5684 said:If you combine TS, DS and LB5 it is around 50% nerf.Why would you combine them? Individual skills got 30% nerfs in a lot of classes.Blurred Frenzy got 50% nerf, it hits less than retaliation's damage back. Imagine this for a second.

Sure, this why every guardian is running FB.FB is stronger than DH, that's why they are running it.

TS was nerfed by 38% (combination of damage nerf and CD). DS, literal zero damage. LB 5 only the final hit deals damage now. Spear no damage. ToF no initial damage. And the target is not likely to stay in it or pass through it more than once.

Feel free to give the damage skills whatever weight you like. The fact that I gave 50% considering that it’s main two damage skills got 38% and 100% damage reduction, is pretty generous do not you think?

As for FB being better no shit. It has been the only competitive build since core nerf a year ago. what fucking good is this balance patch if the only competitive build remained the only competitive build. And the margin between it and the other builds in viability got even bigger?

[otto.5684]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Please no.

I honestly do not want a dragon hunter meta.

They had their glory, whether you find it to be too short, I found it to be disgusting.

If something is keeping DH out of the META, it is external.

Why should not every elite of every class (and core be competitive)? You do not like DH. How about I don’t give a fuck about what you like or not? Tell me what is your main build, let’s nerf it to the ground cuz I don’t like it. Fail ass logic.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@otto.5684 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Please no.

I honestly do not want a dragon hunter meta.

They had their glory, whether you find it to be too short, I found it to be disgusting.

If something is keeping DH out of the META, it is external.

Why should not every elite of every class (and core be competitive)? You do not like DH. How about I don’t give a kitten about what you like or not? Tell me what is your main build, let’s nerf it to the ground cuz I don’t like it. Fail kitten logic.

My main builds have been nerfed to the ground.

I suspect more will get smoked.

But no thanks to a dh meta.

Mrauls knew what I meant.

We are not going back to 2015.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@otto.5684 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@otto.5684 said:If you combine TS, DS and LB5 it is around 50% nerf.Why would you combine them? Individual skills got 30% nerfs in a lot of classes.Blurred Frenzy got 50% nerf, it hits less than retaliation's damage back. Imagine this for a second.

Sure, this why every guardian is running FB.FB is stronger than DH, that's why they are running it.

TS was nerfed by 38% (combination of damage nerf and CD). DS, literal zero damage. LB 5 only the final hit deals damage now. Spear no damage. ToF no initial damage. And the target is not likely to stay in it or pass through it more than once.

Feel free to give the damage skills whatever weight you like. The fact that I gave 50% considering that it’s main two damage skills got 38% and 100% damage reduction, is pretty generous do not you think?

As for FB being better no kitten. It has been the only competitive build since core nerf a year ago. what kitten good is this balance patch if the only competitive build remained the only competitive build. And the margin between it and the other builds in viability got even bigger?

there is a big difference in damage and dps.for your 38% dmg nerf I can name pistol 4 that ate 70-80% nerf etc etc.guard wasnt nerf all that hard.

[Math.5123]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@otto.5684 said:If you combine TS, DS and LB5 it is around 50% nerf.Why would you combine them? Individual skills got 30% nerfs in a lot of classes.Blurred Frenzy got 50% nerf, it hits less than retaliation's damage back. Imagine this for a second.

Sure, this why every guardian is running FB.FB is stronger than DH, that's why they are running it.

TS was nerfed by 38% (combination of damage nerf and CD). DS, literal zero damage. LB 5 only the final hit deals damage now. Spear no damage. ToF no initial damage. And the target is not likely to stay in it or pass through it more than once.

Feel free to give the damage skills whatever weight you like. The fact that I gave 50% considering that it’s main two damage skills got 38% and 100% damage reduction, is pretty generous do not you think?

As for FB being better no kitten. It has been the only competitive build since core nerf a year ago. what kitten good is this balance patch if the only competitive build remained the only competitive build. And the margin between it and the other builds in viability got even bigger?

there is a big difference in damage and dps.for your 38% dmg nerf I can name pistol 4 that ate 70-80% nerf etc etc.guard wasnt nerf all that hard.

The single biggest guardian nerf was the removal of agility sigil. No other class depended as much in that one second of quickness as guardians did.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@otto.5684 said:If you combine TS, DS and LB5 it is around 50% nerf.Why would you combine them? Individual skills got 30% nerfs in a lot of classes.Blurred Frenzy got 50% nerf, it hits less than retaliation's damage back. Imagine this for a second.

Sure, this why every guardian is running FB.FB is stronger than DH, that's why they are running it.

TS was nerfed by 38% (combination of damage nerf and CD). DS, literal zero damage. LB 5 only the final hit deals damage now. Spear no damage. ToF no initial damage. And the target is not likely to stay in it or pass through it more than once.

Feel free to give the damage skills whatever weight you like. The fact that I gave 50% considering that it’s main two damage skills got 38% and 100% damage reduction, is pretty generous do not you think?

As for FB being better no kitten. It has been the only competitive build since core nerf a year ago. what kitten good is this balance patch if the only competitive build remained the only competitive build. And the margin between it and the other builds in viability got even bigger?

there is a big difference in damage and dps.for your 38% dmg nerf I can name pistol 4 that ate 70-80% nerf etc etc.guard wasnt nerf all that hard.

The single biggest guardian nerf was the removal of agility sigil. No other class depended as much in that one second of quickness as guardians did.

power mirage would like to have a word with you, along with power reaper and reveveryone got slap and you keep pretending like you got slapped more then the othersIn fact, power mirage burst combo was made impossible to do against good players by removal of agility.Its not about making it slow/fast, combo is legit impossible anymore.

[cryorion.9532]

OK, but nerf True Shot damage by 30% and healing on Wings of Resolve by 50%. Oh and give the specialization a trade off.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

DH was in an alright spot pre-patch. Small quality of life changes would've made them "seriously" viable. Bow is just legit trash now, which saddens me to no end.

[Tharan.9085]

@otto.5684 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@otto.5684 said:If you combine TS, DS and LB5 it is around 50% nerf.Why would you combine them? Individual skills got 30% nerfs in a lot of classes.Blurred Frenzy got 50% nerf, it hits less than retaliation's damage back. Imagine this for a second.

Sure, this why every guardian is running FB.FB is stronger than DH, that's why they are running it.

TS was nerfed by 38% (combination of damage nerf and CD). DS, literal zero damage. LB 5 only the final hit deals damage now. Spear no damage. ToF no initial damage. And the target is not likely to stay in it or pass through it more than once.

Feel free to give the damage skills whatever weight you like. The fact that I gave 50% considering that it’s main two damage skills got 38% and 100% damage reduction, is pretty generous do not you think?

As for FB being better no kitten. It has been the only competitive build since core nerf a year ago. what kitten good is this balance patch if the only competitive build remained the only competitive build. And the margin between it and the other builds in viability got even bigger?

TS still hits hard, deflecting Shot is a usual nerf that every CC got, LB5 hits never dealt any real dmg besides last hit, spear never dealt real dmg, inital ToF hit never dealt real dmg (the dmg buff on crossing made the skill actually stronger)

[Psybehr.2518]

@Tharan.9085 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@otto.5684 said:If you combine TS, DS and LB5 it is around 50% nerf.Why would you combine them? Individual skills got 30% nerfs in a lot of classes.Blurred Frenzy got 50% nerf, it hits less than retaliation's damage back. Imagine this for a second.

Sure, this why every guardian is running FB.FB is stronger than DH, that's why they are running it.

TS was nerfed by 38% (combination of damage nerf and CD). DS, literal zero damage. LB 5 only the final hit deals damage now. Spear no damage. ToF no initial damage. And the target is not likely to stay in it or pass through it more than once.

Feel free to give the damage skills whatever weight you like. The fact that I gave 50% considering that it’s main two damage skills got 38% and 100% damage reduction, is pretty generous do not you think?

As for FB being better no kitten. It has been the only competitive build since core nerf a year ago. what kitten good is this balance patch if the only competitive build remained the only competitive build. And the margin between it and the other builds in viability got even bigger?

TS still hits hard, deflecting Shot is a usual nerf that every CC got, LB5 hits never dealt any real dmg besides last hit, spear never dealt real dmg, inital ToF hit never dealt real dmg (the dmg buff on crossing made the skill actually stronger)

With dodges, invulns, blinds, evaded, and blocks, how does anyone still get hit with a True Shot?

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Tharan.9085 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@otto.5684 said:If you combine TS, DS and LB5 it is around 50% nerf.Why would you combine them? Individual skills got 30% nerfs in a lot of classes.Blurred Frenzy got 50% nerf, it hits less than retaliation's damage back. Imagine this for a second.

Sure, this why every guardian is running FB.FB is stronger than DH, that's why they are running it.

TS was nerfed by 38% (combination of damage nerf and CD). DS, literal zero damage. LB 5 only the final hit deals damage now. Spear no damage. ToF no initial damage. And the target is not likely to stay in it or pass through it more than once.

Feel free to give the damage skills whatever weight you like. The fact that I gave 50% considering that it’s main two damage skills got 38% and 100% damage reduction, is pretty generous do not you think?

As for FB being better no kitten. It has been the only competitive build since core nerf a year ago. what kitten good is this balance patch if the only competitive build remained the only competitive build. And the margin between it and the other builds in viability got even bigger?

TS still hits hard, deflecting Shot is a usual nerf that every CC got, LB5 hits never dealt any real dmg besides last hit, spear never dealt real dmg, inital ToF hit never dealt real dmg (the dmg buff on crossing made the skill actually stronger)

You don't take ToF for the damage, you take it for the insta-cast, slow, cripple and utility (zone of control) that you could potentially combo off of. Pre-patch you could kill someone with LB 2-3, sword and a few bounces between ToF. Granted, it was extremely hard to land of all that.

They killed a lot of the cool stuff with LB 3 changes.