Making PVE viable again

[Obtena.7952]

@Aridon.8362 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:No, you missed the point entirely ... the toxic elitism coming from the guy that is being told he can't play on that team ... because his ideas of how to play are an imposition on those of the team. Playing how you want isnt' about everyone just accepting how you want to play, regardless of the impact it has on them. YOu can play how you want and if you truly understand that, you will understand and ACCEPT why you aren't wanted on those teams.

like i said, arenanet can fix the toxicity issues by making an easy mode. the sheer difficulty of the raids invites elitist toxicity because it's no longer about playing how you want, it becomes necessary to fulfill requirements and that by it's very nature invites toxicity.

Sure they could ... we could dream up ALL sorts of ideas of how Anet could fix it ... BUT

That doesn't change what I said ... EVEN with an easy mode, you STILL need to respect other people's ideas about how they want to play the game if you want that respect back for how you want to play the game.

... and if you think an easy mode will rid you of people who want to play optimally ... you just haven't given it much thought. What makes you think easy mode will make people decide they dont' want fast clears? That doesn't make sense.

Fast clears only mean you're not doing things for fun.

No, it doesn't. Don't even begin you know what some people do for fun. Plus, that has nothing to do with the fact that people will still want fast clears in easy mode raids if they existed which is what we were talking about.

[Cyndercat.7615]

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@"zombyturtle.5980" said:There is a massive grey area, just because you state something, does not mean its true. In my opinion, its 100% toxic to demand people accept you into their group when you contribute nothing, and actually make it harder by being there.

This is what people mean by toxic attitudes held by elitist players. "contributes nothing or makes it harder by your sheer existence" is in and of itself a toxic attitude, 100% of the time. No grey area about that. This attitude is why people stay away from raids, so they don't have to deal with toxic people like

you

.

EDIT: I don't agree with what the OP is saying one bit, I just wanted to point out what a toxic attitude

actually

is.

Ok explain to me how a 1k dps player is contributing to the team. Go ahead.Then tell me how, if they were replaced by a healer, who usually do 1-2kdps, the group wouldn't have an easier time.

Now please explain to me how I am being toxic by stating the truth. And how the 1k dps player is not toxic by demanding others carry them.

Just because you dont like what I am saying, does not make it toxic. I think your selfish attitude that people who actually care enough to learn the minimum needed to beat the encounter should carry everyone else who cant even be bothered to do that is toxic.

[Orthonen.9470]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Aridon.8362 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:No, you missed the point entirely ... the toxic elitism coming from the guy that is being told he can't play on that team ... because his ideas of how to play are an imposition on those of the team. Playing how you want isnt' about everyone just accepting how you want to play, regardless of the impact it has on them. YOu can play how you want and if you truly understand that, you will understand and ACCEPT why you aren't wanted on those teams.

like i said, arenanet can fix the toxicity issues by making an easy mode. the sheer difficulty of the raids invites elitist toxicity because it's no longer about playing how you want, it becomes necessary to fulfill requirements and that by it's very nature invites toxicity.

Sure they could ... we could dream up ALL sorts of ideas of how Anet could fix it ... BUT

That doesn't change what I said ... EVEN with an easy mode, you STILL need to respect other people's ideas about how they want to play the game if you want that respect back for how you want to play the game.

... and if you think an easy mode will rid you of people who want to play optimally ... you just haven't given it much thought. What makes you think easy mode will make people decide they dont' want fast clears? That doesn't make sense.

Fast clears only mean you're not doing things for fun.

No, it doesn't. Don't even begin you know what some people do for fun. Plus, that has nothing to do with the fact that people will still want fast clears in easy mode raids if they existed which is what we were talking about.

The only reason I see people wanting fast clears = loot.

[Orthonen.9470]

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Linken.6345 said:There is nothing they need to fix you can fix it yourself by playing with likeminded people.If there are to few people who think like you maybe you are the one that need to change?

playing with likeminded people would be the solution if there were an easy mode. but there isn't. difficulty invites toxicity.

and there are a lot of players who think like me, I'm not the only one. there have been countless threads asking for easy mode raids because they want to experience the content too AND not have to deal with toxic raiders.

Public strikes exist. They are lore heavy. Nobody does them.

[Linken.6345]

@Aridon.8362 said:

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Linken.6345 said:There is nothing they need to fix you can fix it yourself by playing with likeminded people.If there are to few people who think like you maybe you are the one that need to change?

playing with likeminded people would be the solution if there were an easy mode. but there isn't. difficulty invites toxicity.

and there are a lot of players who think like me, I'm not the only one. there have been countless threads asking for easy mode raids because they want to experience the content too AND not have to deal with toxic raiders.

Public strikes exist. They are lore heavy. Nobody does them.

They are as lore heavy as the lfg squads, reason noone do them is people can start with half a squad and no organistaion + hard to get the kill when people run around like headless chickens, mainly due to both the first 2 reasons.

[Stajan.4581]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Stajan.4581 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:By asking about your numbers and methodology i was not asking about how you were killing the champs. I was asking about your

research

methodology. Specifically, how did you perform the experiment, and what data did you acquire during that research. I am asking, because people

were

doing such kinds of research about drops, and so far those that did it agree that there's no evidence that other people in any way affect your chances of obtaining loot (beyond the obvious case of someone else killing the mob so fast you didn't manage to qualify for drops at all, of course). Notice, also, that this is in line with the official Anet stance about drops, where supposedly the whole system is specially designed in such a way so other people would never be detrimental for you.

So, if you actually have some hard data that proves otherwise, i'd not only very much want to see it (because it would completely change some things we so far thought we knew about the game), but i'd also want to know how you gathered that data in order to reason why in your case the results are different than in all the other cases. Because, if you're right, then either you have considered some factor everyone ignored so far, or something changed in the game recently.

I have no video of this which is of course would be best, than I would kill champ and mark down what the drop was. i used an e for the exotic bags a r for the rare bags and a m for the masterwork and f for fine. Than i would just put a mark in the right box. Now I will grant this although I did have an increase in exotic drops when I soloed it was not a hug jump over what it was with someone but over an extended period of time it would add up. There was a about a 6% difference between the two. This I will agree on.

[Stajan.4581]

@Linken.6345 said:

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:There is nothing they need to fix you can fix it yourself by playing with likeminded people.If there are to few people who think like you maybe you are the one that need to change?

There is, you say you can fix yourself that is a big hard no. A player has a top end level of performance period they are only going to be as good as they are, you see casual players do not play the game like it is their jobs they play it for FUN and not having the chance to run raids and enjoy that area of the game is a shame. Why should I have to change to make you happy? I have a question a serious question, If a player was to run a valk reaper and not a zerker reaper would you take that player? Their over all DPS is about 6-7% less give or take but their burst shroud damage is greater because they stay in shroud for a longer period of time. This is where the reapers damage comes from in the first place we know this and since they stay in shroud longer are they not producing a better outcome?

There are not a few people that think this way there are many who do not do raids because of this toxic elitist mind set and so they miss out on this content and is that fair to them? That answer is a NO it is not fair at all, because they want to do them they just are unable to because of x reason.

I can remember when fractals first came out and everyone was running power power power, I ran condi because I like the tankiness of my build and the cascades of numbers, I was able to get onto a few teams that took me and I showed them how good condi could be and how good tanky can be. As there were several times I was the only one alive and was able to either res the team or able to produce enough damage through my build to kill the boss. That would not have happened had I been running a META build which is what they were all calling for before I convinced them.

Just because something is a META build does not mean it is the perfect build, it means it is the perfect build for that person you can not say that the build you run for you is going to do the exact same thing for me. We play a different style and that in and of itself will not allow the same build and the same gear to get the same results from player to player.

We are not sheep we have our own minds think outside the box and build your own builds and I feel you will find something that you enjoy that you created and works for you and will still get the job done. I say this in the hopes that you may open your eyes and realize there is no difference in completing a raid content in 1 second or in 9 min 59 .59 seconds. The fact that it was completed is the fact.

[Linken.6345]

@Stajan.4581 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:There is nothing they need to fix you can fix it yourself by playing with likeminded people.If there are to few people who think like you maybe you are the one that need to change?

There is, you say you can fix yourself that is a big hard no. A player has a top end level of performance period they are only going to be as good as they are, you see casual players do not play the game like it is their jobs they play it for FUN and not having the chance to run raids and enjoy that area of the game is a shame. Why should I have to change to make you happy? I have a question a serious question, If a player was to run a valk reaper and not a zerker reaper would you take that player? Their over all DPS is about 6-7% less give or take but their burst shroud damage is greater because they stay in shroud for a longer period of time. This is where the reapers damage comes from in the first place we know this and since they stay in shroud longer are they not producing a better outcome?

There are not a few people that think this way there are many who do not do raids because of this toxic elitist mind set and so they miss out on this content and is that fair to them? That answer is a NO it is not fair at all, because they want to do them they just are unable to because of x reason.

I can remember when fractals first came out and everyone was running power power power, I ran condi because I like the tankiness of my build and the cascades of numbers, I was able to get onto a few teams that took me and I showed them how good condi could be and how good tanky can be. As there were several times I was the only one alive and was able to either res the team or able to produce enough damage through my build to kill the boss. That would not have happened had I been running a META build which is what they were all calling for before I convinced them.

Just because something is a META build does not mean it is the perfect build, it means it is the perfect build for that person you can not say that the build you run for you is going to do the exact same thing for me. We play a different style and that in and of itself will not allow the same build and the same gear to get the same results from player to player.

We are not sheep we have our own minds think outside the box and build your own builds and I feel you will find something that you enjoy that you created and works for you and will still get the job done. I say this in the hopes that you may open your eyes and realize there is no difference in completing a raid content in 1 second or in 9 min 59 .59 seconds. The fact that it was completed is the fact.

Well benchmark for power reaper is 32.2k, I can not get this myself being a support player.If you can get 10% lower so 28.5 prox most pug groups would not kick you out, heck even 20k shouldent be a problem.The problem is some dps join raid groups and do same as support 2-4k or below 10k and thats less then 33% of of what the max is.

I had a warrior join Whisper of jormag, me being a druid support scrub going into soulbest condi dps pulled bettwen 12-16k not very good but this guy was 2k.Sure he was the last man standing but as dps doing 2k he surviving the whole fight contribute less then a support druid that might whole squad and gives bettwen 1-3k dps thats not ok and if every dps join with those numbers nothing will get done within the time limit of 10 mins.

[Stajan.4581]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Ok explain to me how a 1k dps player is contributing to the team. Go ahead.Then tell me how, if they were replaced by a healer, who usually do 1-2kdps, the group wouldn't have an easier time.

Now please explain to me how I am being toxic by stating the truth. And how the 1k dps player is not toxic by demanding others carry them.

Just because you dont like what I am saying, does not make it toxic. I think your selfish attitude that people who actually care enough to learn the minimum needed to beat the encounter should carry everyone else who cant even be bothered to do that is toxic.

This is a simple one if you are doing ANY damage at all you are contributing, yes it may not be much but you are still contributing. Have you ever heard of death of a 1000 paper cuts?Now let us do some math shale we If you do 1000 points of damage per second there is 600 seconds in 10 min minus the 1 second because at 10 min it is a fail. So 1000 DPS in 10 min or 600 seconds is 600,000 damage. Now if you were to have that damage over 10 players that is 6 million damage. Now I just looked up Dhumm and he has 32million health, lets round that up to 36 for some simple math that makes is 6 times more health and damage being done. So if you are doing 1000 damage DPS that means that each player has to do 6100 DPS which is under your 10K dps that you said is required and this is just basic math. 6100 DPS is nothing. You can get that with 5 pieces of power gear.

[Linken.6345]

@Stajan.4581 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Ok explain to me how a 1k dps player is contributing to the team. Go ahead.Then tell me how, if they were replaced by a healer, who usually do 1-2kdps, the group wouldn't have an easier time.

Now please explain to me how I am being toxic by stating the truth. And how the 1k dps player is not toxic by demanding others carry them.

Just because you dont like what I am saying, does not make it toxic. I think your selfish attitude that people who actually care enough to learn the minimum needed to beat the encounter should carry everyone else who cant even be bothered to do that is toxic.

This is a simple one if you are doing ANY damage at all you are contributing, yes it may not be much but you are still contributing. Have you ever heard of death of a 1000 paper cuts?Now let us do some math shale we If you do 1000 points of damage per second there is 600 seconds in 10 min minus the 1 second because at 10 min it is a fail. So 1000 DPS in 10 min or 600 seconds is 600,000 damage. Now if you were to have that damage over 10 players that is 6 million damage. Now I just looked up Dhumm and he has 32million health, lets round that up to 36 for some simple math that makes is 6 times more health and damage being done. So if you are doing 1000 damage DPS that means that each player has to do 6100 DPS which is under your 10K dps that you said is required and this is just basic math. 6100 DPS is nothing. You can get that with 5 pieces of power gear.

Problem is you cant stand and dps dhuum the whole 10 mins, there is a pre event that take time, 1 person is kiting the golems so 9 people left of those 9 you have 1 tank low damage and 1 healer also low damage so 7 people.people have to do mechanics like running away with bombs, split with chain, clearing adds and going up in greens thats 1-4 people gone from time to time.

Added to that he do his lesser and greater soul slam were he go into the middle and you lose your soul were you cant damage him at all 2-3 times aswell.So no you need to do more the 6100 becouse hes not a static golem that you can keep hitting the whole 10 mins.EditAnd thats not even going into detail about the instant wipe if failed mechanics either.

[Stajan.4581]

I get that he moves and does stuff this is just the math that shows that it could by the numbers be done. So if you have 3 players doing 30K DPS and we will say that you have about 7 min of damage time. That is taking away 3 min for the pre and all his soul stuff and what not so 3 players at 30K DPS over 7 min which is 420 seconds that comes to 12 600 000 per person for a grand total of 37 800 000 damage. So in real life math world which is what this game is based off because it is damage per second. three players doing 30K DPS can finish him off in under 7 min so do not hand me this crap that someone doing less damage say 5K or 10K DPS would be a hindrance. It is purely elitists wanting to make the runs as fast as possible to get more loot instead of just having fun and enjoying the game. This is 3 players 3 of them do you now see a problem with how raids are run with ppl wanting others to bend to what they want just so they can enjoy the content I have to do what you want me to do Hell no. Learn to work with others and what their limitations are and what they are able to bring to the table instead of saying NO you can run this build or this gear and you can not do this rotation than you are no use to us. This is toxic to the core, and it has a psychological effect on players when others are telling them this and causes them to leave.

I know this from personal experience where I left the game for some time and I did not miss it at all, as I was playing a game that did not require you to be elite to achieve top end stuff it required you to work for it but you did not have to do things this way to get it.

So yes Raid Elite toxicity is a very real thing and it needs to stop so that others can enjoy the content that is being produced. Either a lower grade raid or elite players need to learn to help others in their search. This is a community is it not, communities help each other do they not? If it is not a community than why is it a MMO and why is not like GW1 was where each player can decide to take others with them and play as they want?

Everyone preaches community and MMO where players help you out but when you want the help the way you play they knock you down and spit in your face and say your not good enough.

Which one is it Community or Not.

[castlemanic.3198]

@Aridon.8362 said:Public strikes exist. They are lore heavy. Nobody does them.

because they're difficult, and not the same thing as easy raid mode.

[castlemanic.3198]

@Obtena.7952 said:No, easy mode has nothing to do with it. People are still going to want to optimally play an easy mode.

like i said before, with easy mode there's going to be an influx of players who will play it casually, drowning out the noise of anyone who wants to play optimally in easy mode.

EDIT: removed a comment that, upon reflection, didn't really fit reality.

[Dreams.3128]

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:No, easy mode has nothing to do with it. People are still going to want to optimally play an easy mode.

like i said before, with easy mode there's going to be an influx of players who will play it casually, drowning out the noise of anyone who wants to play optimally in easy mode.

EDIT: removed a comment that, upon reflection, didn't really fit reality.

I mean it still won’t solve anything. It didn’t do anything for dungeons, didn’t do anything for open world, didn’t do anything for AB metas. You assume you can avoid people wanting to be efficient but I see it even in OPEN WORLD. People will always be efficient whether you like it or not, easy or hard, small or large scale, your logic is not sound here. It’s a pipe dream.

Here’s the best part, even if there are raids with dumb down mechanics you still will have to deal with rage timers. So even if avoid the people that make it ‘toxic’ you’ll only have yourselves to blame if you reach the rage timer and you all are still only like 3k dps. So how exactly will that help the players doing low dps when they still won’t be able to get any meaningful rewards or anything useful from the easy modes?? They wouldn’t even be able to do the content amongst themselves.

[castlemanic.3198]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:I mean it still won’t solve anything. It didn’t do anything for dungeons, didn’t do anything for open world, didn’t do anything for AB metas. You assume you can avoid people wanting to be efficient but I see it even in OPEN WORLD. People will always be efficient whether you like it or not, easy or hard, small or large scale, your logic is not sound here. It’s a pipe dream.

it's not really a pipe dream since there are more people who won't play efficiently than will. that's just how the numbers are.

Here’s the best part, even if there are raids with dumb down mechanics you still will have to deal with rage timers. So even if avoid the people that make it ‘toxic’ you’ll only have yourselves to blame if you reach the rage timer and you all are still only like 3k dps. So how exactly will that help the players doing low dps when they still won’t be able to get any meaningful rewards or anything useful from the easy modes?? They wouldn’t even be able to do the content amongst themselves.

who says rage timers would be part of easy mode raids?

[Astralporing.1957]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Stajan.4581 said:

This is a simple one if you are doing ANY damage at all you are contributing, yes it may not be much but you are still contributing. Have you ever heard of death of a 1000 paper cuts?Now let us do some math shale we If you do 1000 points of damage per second there is 600 seconds in 10 min minus the 1 second because at 10 min it is a fail. So 1000 DPS in 10 min or 600 seconds is 600,000 damage. Now if you were to have that damage over 10 players that is 6 million damage. Now I just looked up Dhumm and he has 32million health, lets round that up to 36 for some simple math that makes is 6 times more health and damage being done. So if you are doing 1000 damage DPS that means that each player has to do 6100 DPS which is under your 10K dps that you said is required and this is just basic math. 6100 DPS is nothing. You can get that with 5 pieces of power gear.

Problem is you cant stand and dps dhuum the whole 10 mins, there is a pre event that take time, 1 person is kiting the golems so 9 people left of those 9 you have 1 tank low damage and 1 healer also low damage so 7 people.people have to do mechanics like running away with bombs, split with chain, clearing adds and going up in greens thats 1-4 people gone from time to time.

Added to that he do his lesser and greater soul slam were he go into the middle and you lose your soul were you cant damage him at all 2-3 times aswell.So no you need to do more the 6100 becouse hes not a static golem that you can keep hitting the whole 10 mins.EditAnd thats not even going into detail about the instant wipe if failed mechanics either.

Or about the last 10% hp dps phase...

[Obtena.7952]

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:No, easy mode has nothing to do with it. People are still going to want to optimally play an easy mode.

like i said before, with easy mode there's going to be an influx of players who will play it casually, drowning out the noise of anyone who wants to play optimally in easy mode.

EDIT: removed a comment that, upon reflection, didn't really fit reality.

That still doesn't change the fact that there will ALSO be and influx of people who still want to optimally play an easy mode. Easy mode is not a fix for whatever issue you are describing. Do not assume that optimal play will be 'drowned out' by anything ... not even the cries of players who get kicked from their teams, EVEN in easy mode raids.

In fact, we already know this will happen, because it happened in dungeons. Nothing about the difficulty of instanced team content will disperse the idea that doing something faster = better. If anything, the easier the content, the MORE polarizing this issue is, not less.

[Obtena.7952]

@Aridon.8362 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Aridon.8362 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:No, you missed the point entirely ... the toxic elitism coming from the guy that is being told he can't play on that team ... because his ideas of how to play are an imposition on those of the team. Playing how you want isnt' about everyone just accepting how you want to play, regardless of the impact it has on them. YOu can play how you want and if you truly understand that, you will understand and ACCEPT why you aren't wanted on those teams.

like i said, arenanet can fix the toxicity issues by making an easy mode. the sheer difficulty of the raids invites elitist toxicity because it's no longer about playing how you want, it becomes necessary to fulfill requirements and that by it's very nature invites toxicity.

Sure they could ... we could dream up ALL sorts of ideas of how Anet could fix it ... BUT

That doesn't change what I said ... EVEN with an easy mode, you STILL need to respect other people's ideas about how they want to play the game if you want that respect back for how you want to play the game.

... and if you think an easy mode will rid you of people who want to play optimally ... you just haven't given it much thought. What makes you think easy mode will make people decide they dont' want fast clears? That doesn't make sense.

Fast clears only mean you're not doing things for fun.

No, it doesn't. Don't even begin you know what some people do for fun. Plus, that has nothing to do with the fact that people will still want fast clears in easy mode raids if they existed which is what we were talking about.

The only reason I see people wanting fast clears = loot.

That doesn't change anything I've said. Obviously, what you see isn't indicative of all the reasons people have fun in the game. That still has nothing to do with the fact that people will still want fast clears in easy mode raids if they existed which is what we were talking about.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Stajan.4581" From what I understand, you want a harder version of PVE maps with better rewards. Increase the rewards and the difficulty based on the number of players. I don't think you thought is through very well, the PVE maps serve a purpose, to teach new players how to play, there is a vast difference between Queensdale and Tangled Depths, and for good reasons. How do you propose this "hard mode" would work? Make Queensdale harder than Tangled Depths?

The "let's make things harder" argument needs some form of explanation. Let's take the Tamini Warrior, one of the first mobs players (that rolled humans) encounter in the game. How do you propose that Tamini Warrior will get "harder" with more players around? Higher health and damage? This already happens in the game and event mobs scale with the number of players, do you want ALL mobs to scale with the number of players?

[Cyndercat.7615]

@Stajan.4581 said:I get that he moves and does stuff this is just the math that shows that it could by the numbers be done. So if you have 3 players doing 30K DPS and we will say that you have about 7 min of damage time. That is taking away 3 min for the pre and all his soul stuff and what not so 3 players at 30K DPS over 7 min which is 420 seconds that comes to 12 600 000 per person for a grand total of 37 800 000 damage. So in real life math world which is what this game is based off because it is damage per second. three players doing 30K DPS can finish him off in under 7 min so do not hand me this kitten that someone doing less damage say 5K or 10K DPS would be a hindrance. It is purely elitists wanting to make the runs as fast as possible to get more loot instead of just having fun and enjoying the game. This is 3 players 3 of them do you now see a problem with how raids are run with ppl wanting others to bend to what they want just so they can enjoy the content I have to do what you want me to do Hell no. Learn to work with others and what their limitations are and what they are able to bring to the table instead of saying NO you can run this build or this gear and you can not do this rotation than you are no use to us. This is toxic to the core, and it has a psychological effect on players when others are telling them this and causes them to leave.

I know this from personal experience where I left the game for some time and I did not miss it at all, as I was playing a game that did not require you to be elite to achieve top end stuff it required you to work for it but you did not have to do things this way to get it.

So yes Raid Elite toxicity is a very real thing and it needs to stop so that others can enjoy the content that is being produced. Either a lower grade raid or elite players need to learn to help others in their search. This is a community is it not, communities help each other do they not? If it is not a community than why is it a MMO and why is not like GW1 was where each player can decide to take others with them and play as they want?

Everyone preaches community and MMO where players help you out but when you want the help the way you play they knock you down and spit in your face and say your not good enough.

Which one is it Community or Not.

Double post

[Cyndercat.7615]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Stajan.4581 said:I get that he moves and does stuff this is just the math that shows that it could by the numbers be done. So if you have 3 players doing 30K DPS and we will say that you have about 7 min of damage time. That is taking away 3 min for the pre and all his soul stuff and what not so 3 players at 30K DPS over 7 min which is 420 seconds that comes to 12 600 000 per person for a grand total of 37 800 000 damage. So in real life math world which is what this game is based off because it is damage per second. three players doing 30K DPS can finish him off in under 7 min so do not hand me this kitten that someone doing less damage say 5K or 10K DPS would be a hindrance. It is purely elitists wanting to make the runs as fast as possible to get more loot instead of just having fun and enjoying the game. This is 3 players 3 of them do you now see a problem with how raids are run with ppl wanting others to bend to what they want just so they can enjoy the content I have to do what you want me to do Hell no. Learn to work with others and what their limitations are and what they are able to bring to the table instead of saying NO you can run this build or this gear and you can not do this rotation than you are no use to us. This is toxic to the core, and it has a psychological effect on players when others are telling them this and causes them to leave.

I know this from personal experience where I left the game for some time and I did not miss it at all, as I was playing a game that did not require you to be elite to achieve top end stuff it required you to work for it but you did not have to do things this way to get it.

So yes Raid Elite toxicity is a very real thing and it needs to stop so that others can enjoy the content that is being produced. Either a lower grade raid or elite players need to learn to help others in their search. This is a community is it not, communities help each other do they not? If it is not a community than why is it a MMO and why is not like GW1 was where each player can decide to take others with them and play as they want?

Everyone preaches community and MMO where players help you out but when you want the help the way you play they knock you down and spit in your face and say your not good enough.

Which one is it Community or Not.

Its become very obvious that you have never even tried dhuum from this. You know nothing about the fight and assume you can full dps him the entire time. You dont even realize that you only get about 20s windows where he stands still. Or that 1/3 of the squad at any given time wont be able to deal damage due to dealing with mechanics.

'Help others in their search' = carry me while I dont fulfil the role i joined as. There are hundreds of guides and training guilds who will help you become good enough to clear a raid. Most 'elitist' players will give you tips if you ask them too. What they refuse to do, is spend every minute of their raiding time in game teaching new people and carrying them. You are not entitled to their time and help and demanding it will make noone want to play with you.

[Stajan.4581]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:Its become very obvious that you have never even tried dhuum from this. You know nothing about the fight and assume you can full dps him the entire time. You dont even realize that you only get about 20s windows where he stands still. Or that 1/3 of the squad at any given time wont be able to deal damage due to dealing with mechanics.

Did you play GW1 ? This is the first thing I will ask if you did do you remember hard mode ? If you do than do you remember how you got hard mode ? If not then let me remind you, you had to play through the whole story first. So each living world would have the normal level and when you are completed it ( this does not mean titles and what not) than and only than were you able to go and pick hard mode. The same thing can be done here, Once you have completed the whole story line the next time you log in you can pick normal or hard mode which would see an increase in enemy strength and a increase in drop rates. Now once you are done the story line if you do not want to go to hard mode you do not have to it is 100% up to you to choose it or not. There is no force for you to take it unless you want to that is how it would work and do not tell me that they can not do this because they do it in Fractals with the CMs so yes it can be done and yes it can be done across all maps.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Someone doesn't understand the difference between persistent and instances maps.

[Stajan.4581]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:He has a lesser death mark where he goes untargetable every minute for 10seconds. After every soul split and lesser mark the tank must move him across to another side of the arena, this takes another 10s. You cant dps fully during this.

At 10% you have 2 15s windows to deal 10% of his HP if you cant do this its an autofail.

Why should 3 players doing 30k dps carry a 5k dps player through the encounter when they could get another 30k dps player and finish it faster, massivly reducing the chances of mistakes and wipes. Why should you be allowed to deal 5kdps without complaints, yet if the other 3 dps did the same, the encounter would fail.

You have 15 seconds to do 10% of his HP, now is that his full HP or his current HP that he has at the time? Now if it is his full HP that means that you need to do 3.2million Damage in 15 seconds that comes to 213 333 HP per second for 15 seconds. 1 players doing 30K DPS will do 450K in 15 seconds that means that 3 players doing 30K per second will do 1,350,000 in those 15 seconds. with 6 remaining to take care of the other 1,850,000 that means that 123 333 damage is required per second that divided by 6 means that 20 555 per player is required for 15 second. If you do 1000 damage per second that get you to 15000 damage alone. There is no way that you can tell me that if you have a team that has 3 players doing 30K DPS and a team of not META players doing at least 2K damage DPS that you can not complete the content. It is all about elite status and a chest pumping mentality. WE ARE THE BEST WE DID THIS WE DID THAT. I have just proven with math that it at least DHUMM can be done with only 3 30K DPSers a tank and 6 what ever you want so long as they can do 2K per second players. Nice try but you see math is black and white there is no grey and in this case you are 100% no 10000000000000000000000000000% wrong in what you are saying and it is all about elite status.

Would you like to try again.

Why should they carry, well lets see they are not carrying they are working together, no matter how much damage you do you are still working together some deal more some deal less it is all still damage. If the content is completed it is completed you do not get anything for finishing it in 30 seconds you get the same damn loot. You may get a little more loot finishing it faster over and over again sure but if that is the case you are looking at elitists again and if you say no than you are blind to what working together means. Plus again you did not answer my community questions yet again.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:No, easy mode has nothing to do with it. People are still going to want to optimally play an easy mode.

like i said before, with easy mode there's going to be an influx of players who will play it casually, drowning out the noise of anyone who wants to play optimally in easy mode.

EDIT: removed a comment that, upon reflection, didn't really fit reality.

That still doesn't change the fact that there will ALSO be and influx of people who still want to optimally play an easy mode. Easy mode is not a fix for whatever issue you are describing. Do not assume that optimal play will be 'drowned out' by anything ... not even the cries of players who get kicked from their teams, EVEN in easy mode raids.

In fact, we already know this will happen, because it happened in dungeons. Nothing about the difficulty of instanced team content will disperse the idea that doing something faster = better. If anything, the easier the content, the MORE polarizing this issue is, not less.Although, at the same time, the easier it is to avoid it. Because at the lower difficulty level, the oft-used "helpful" suggestion of "just make your own group" will actually work. As it did work in dungeons.