Do ppl remember?

[Tayga.3192]

Give thief true damage (armor piercing or outright armor ignoring, power damage) makes up for low damage (the damage should still be low but higher than normal power damage vs 1500 toughness) ezpz

[UNOwen.7132]

@Tayga.3192 said:Give thief true damage (armor piercing or outright armor ignoring, power damage) makes up for low damage (the damage should still be low but higher than normal power damage vs 1500 toughness) ezpz

Interesting concept, but thats basically condi. Thief already has condi builds, theyre not great.

[Tayga.3192]

@UNOwen.7132 said:Interesting concept, but thats basically condi. Thief already has condi builds, theyre not great.

Not DoT, scales with power/ferocity.

[RedAvenged.5217]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Give thief true damage (armor piercing or outright armor ignoring, power damage) makes up for low damage (the damage should still be low but higher than normal power damage vs 1500 toughness) ezpz

Interesting concept, but thats basically condi. Thief already has condi builds, theyre not great.

I’m kind of with that. Also it would kind of destroy reason to run toughness. So maybe and only maybe if they reintroduce more stat variety to make up for that

[UNOwen.7132]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Interesting concept, but thats basically condi. Thief already has condi builds, theyre not great.

Not DoT, scales with power/ferocity.

Right, I get that the details differ, but it doesnt really make much of a difference in gameplay. Especially since thieves condi is burst anyway. I find it hard to imagine they could make that gimmick work out well if they cant (or rather dont want to) make condi thief work out.

[Lighter.5631]

@Tayga.3192 said:Give thief true damage (armor piercing or outright armor ignoring, power damage) makes up for low damage (the damage should still be low but higher than normal power damage vs 1500 toughness) ezpz

for? you realize the most tanky spec right now is necro right?

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:...> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Gw2 is the only game I've played where the assassin class has thee lowest damage on the majority of its skill. The class has to resort to weak kitten backstabs and lame 300 damage autos against today's super sustain classes. Defenitly not the burst class u want to take down the opositions tank lmao.The team tried but their lowering build deversity AND class deversity at the same time, hope they fix it.Best thing is there are still thief haters going around saying their op still laughing quietly going they stay in this sad asf state.

i guess u arent playing any competitive game, any character with high mobility and high exist ability does little damage, specially assassin class are supposed to poke damage and only go in to shut down low HP target when played at equal level and never go toe to toe against a tank or brawler and fights are often initiated by tanks/brawler and often brawler does a ton more damage if you go toe to toe. there's no such thing as "burst class".

Except for Mobas, where they do a lot of damage. And other MMOs, where they do a lot of damage. And shooters, where they can usually oneshot. And PvP games that dont fall into any of these categories (stuff like Gigantic), where they do a lot of damage. Actually, now that I think about it, I cant thing of a

single

competitive game where they do little damage.

I think you mismatched competitive games with some PvE player role playing game where you slash NPCs, where tanks does no damage and dps does all the damage.see, thief still manages to be meta when other classes are overtuned, like it has always been doing.mobility>damage=tankiness.

Its meta, yes, but not as an assassin. Its meta as an errand boy. Someone who runs around the map, and stands on points.

or if you simply prefer brawling over roaming, switch class, who plays only one class in a competitive team based game?

Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

In which Moba roamer does a tons of damage? mostly it's AD carry that needs a support to play with him that does the most damageand class based shooter like overwatch, tanks can basically one/two shot dps class, while dps like tracer only does damage when at close-mid and requires high aiming skill and genji without shuting down low hp target when going in is dead weight.

and shooter? like you mean when everybody has the same mobility? yea, not sure why you bring this up, but even in call of duty, the sprinter knife build were you run so fast and one shot with knife is heavily nerfed since modern warfare 2.

clearly, you don't know competitive games.high mobility high damage only applies in PvE

[UNOwen.7132]

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Give thief true damage (armor piercing or outright armor ignoring, power damage) makes up for low damage (the damage should still be low but higher than normal power damage vs 1500 toughness) ezpz

Interesting concept, but thats basically condi. Thief already has condi builds, theyre not great.

I’m kind of with that. Also it would kind of destroy reason to run toughness. So maybe and only maybe if they reintroduce more stat variety to make up for that

Condi already means that there is little reason to run Toughness over vitality. Thats why you, well, dont.

[Tayga.3192]

@"Lighter.5631" said:for? you realize the most tanky spec right now is necro right?

Cleric tempest, chronobunker, condi necro, core warrior in HoT (soldier) before signet nerfs etc were all running toughness. "Right now" is pretty small scale for a mmorpg.

[Lighter.5631]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Lighter.5631" said:for? you realize the most tanky spec right now is necro right?

Cleric tempest, chronobunker, condi necro, core warrior in HoT (soldier) before signet nerfs etc were all running toughness. "Right now" is pretty small scale for a mmorpg.

most toughness amulet are removed and no toughness amulet is played at high level right now. so still, for?

[Tayga.3192]

@Lighter.5631 said:most toughness amulet are removed and no toughness amulet is played at high levelThat's a totally different issue and I already said that postpatch toughness will be useless. Imo toughness needs like 1.3 (numbers can change) multiplier.

[Lighter.5631]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:most toughness amulet are removed and no toughness amulet is played at high levelThat's a totally different issue and I already said this, toughness needs like 1.3 (numbers can change) multiplier.

yea, you still aint giving any reason at all.

[Tayga.3192]

@"Lighter.5631" said:yea, you still aint giving any reason at all.

Reason?Thief has low damage but we can make thief more conditional instead of "I either oneshot or can't kill anything".

[UNOwen.7132]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:...> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Gw2 is the only game I've played where the assassin class has thee lowest damage on the majority of its skill. The class has to resort to weak kitten backstabs and lame 300 damage autos against today's super sustain classes. Defenitly not the burst class u want to take down the opositions tank lmao.The team tried but their lowering build deversity AND class deversity at the same time, hope they fix it.Best thing is there are still thief haters going around saying their op still laughing quietly going they stay in this sad asf state.

i guess u arent playing any competitive game, any character with high mobility and high exist ability does little damage, specially assassin class are supposed to poke damage and only go in to shut down low HP target when played at equal level and never go toe to toe against a tank or brawler and fights are often initiated by tanks/brawler and often brawler does a ton more damage if you go toe to toe. there's no such thing as "burst class".

Except for Mobas, where they do a lot of damage. And other MMOs, where they do a lot of damage. And shooters, where they can usually oneshot. And PvP games that dont fall into any of these categories (stuff like Gigantic), where they do a lot of damage. Actually, now that I think about it, I cant thing of a

single

competitive game where they do little damage.

I think you mismatched competitive games with some PvE player role playing game where you slash NPCs, where tanks does no damage and dps does all the damage.see, thief still manages to be meta when other classes are overtuned, like it has always been doing.mobility>damage=tankiness.

Its meta, yes, but not as an assassin. Its meta as an errand boy. Someone who runs around the map, and stands on points.

or if you simply prefer brawling over roaming, switch class, who plays only one class in a competitive team based game?

Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

In which Moba roamer does a tons of damage? mostly it's AD carry that needs a support to play with him that does the most damageand class based shooter like overwatch, tanks can basically one/two shot dps class, while dps like tracer only does damage when at close-mid and requires high aiming skill and genji without shuting down low hp target when going in is dead weight.

The most DPS, yes. But the highest burst is roaming assassins. In which case the answer is "well, all of them, actually". As for class-based shooters, dunno Overwatch well enough (though I recall Reaper bursts pretty hard), but TF2s SPY was capable of a one-hit KO on all targets. And rather high damage headshots.

and shooter? like you mean when everybody has the same mobility? yea, not sure why you bring this up, but even in call of duty, the sprinter knife build were you run so fast and one shot with knife is heavily nerfed since modern warfare 2.

I was thinking more TF2, actually. Or Planetside. Or even Paladins.

clearly, you don't know competitive games.high mobility high damage only applies in PvE

Clearly you dont. High Mobility High Burst is a classic archetype that practically no competitive game doesnt have. They lack DPS, but Burst-wise, high mobility classes always are the best at it.

[Lighter.5631]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:...> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Gw2 is the only game I've played where the assassin class has thee lowest damage on the majority of its skill. The class has to resort to weak kitten backstabs and lame 300 damage autos against today's super sustain classes. Defenitly not the burst class u want to take down the opositions tank lmao.The team tried but their lowering build deversity AND class deversity at the same time, hope they fix it.Best thing is there are still thief haters going around saying their op still laughing quietly going they stay in this sad asf state.

i guess u arent playing any competitive game, any character with high mobility and high exist ability does little damage, specially assassin class are supposed to poke damage and only go in to shut down low HP target when played at equal level and never go toe to toe against a tank or brawler and fights are often initiated by tanks/brawler and often brawler does a ton more damage if you go toe to toe. there's no such thing as "burst class".

Except for Mobas, where they do a lot of damage. And other MMOs, where they do a lot of damage. And shooters, where they can usually oneshot. And PvP games that dont fall into any of these categories (stuff like Gigantic), where they do a lot of damage. Actually, now that I think about it, I cant thing of a

single

competitive game where they do little damage.

I think you mismatched competitive games with some PvE player role playing game where you slash NPCs, where tanks does no damage and dps does all the damage.see, thief still manages to be meta when other classes are overtuned, like it has always been doing.mobility>damage=tankiness.

Its meta, yes, but not as an assassin. Its meta as an errand boy. Someone who runs around the map, and stands on points.

or if you simply prefer brawling over roaming, switch class, who plays only one class in a competitive team based game?

Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

In which Moba roamer does a tons of damage? mostly it's AD carry that needs a support to play with him that does the most damageand class based shooter like overwatch, tanks can basically one/two shot dps class, while dps like tracer only does damage when at close-mid and requires high aiming skill and genji without shuting down low hp target when going in is dead weight.

The most DPS, yes. But the highest

burst

is roaming assassins. In which case the answer is "well, all of them, actually". As for class-based shooters, dunno Overwatch well enough (though I recall Reaper bursts pretty hard), but TF2s SPY was capable of a one-hit KO on all targets. And rather high damage headshots.

and shooter? like you mean when everybody has the same mobility? yea, not sure why you bring this up, but even in call of duty, the sprinter knife build were you run so fast and one shot with knife is heavily nerfed since modern warfare 2.

I was thinking more TF2, actually. Or Planetside. Or even Paladins.

clearly, you don't know competitive games.high mobility high damage only applies in PvE

Clearly

you

dont. High Mobility High Burst is a classic archetype that practically

no

competitive game doesnt have. They lack DPS, but Burst-wise, high mobility classes

always

are the best at it.

lol, because tf2, planetside and paladins are highly competitive right?burst nukes are still ADC/marksman, or some times mid liner/mages, never roamer that roam around shuts down weak target, sorry.reaper burst is pretty hard within dps, so? doesnt change the fact that tanks overall can one/two shot dps in overwatch.and reason reaper burst is pretty hard, because it's mobility is almost 1/3 of for example tracer/genji have

really don't know where you get the High mobility High burst from, PvE perhaps, but that's clearly not highly competitive active PvP. shouldn't mixmatch these two.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:...> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Gw2 is the only game I've played where the assassin class has thee lowest damage on the majority of its skill. The class has to resort to weak kitten backstabs and lame 300 damage autos against today's super sustain classes. Defenitly not the burst class u want to take down the opositions tank lmao.The team tried but their lowering build deversity AND class deversity at the same time, hope they fix it.Best thing is there are still thief haters going around saying their op still laughing quietly going they stay in this sad asf state.

i guess u arent playing any competitive game, any character with high mobility and high exist ability does little damage, specially assassin class are supposed to poke damage and only go in to shut down low HP target when played at equal level and never go toe to toe against a tank or brawler and fights are often initiated by tanks/brawler and often brawler does a ton more damage if you go toe to toe. there's no such thing as "burst class".

Except for Mobas, where they do a lot of damage. And other MMOs, where they do a lot of damage. And shooters, where they can usually oneshot. And PvP games that dont fall into any of these categories (stuff like Gigantic), where they do a lot of damage. Actually, now that I think about it, I cant thing of a

single

competitive game where they do little damage.

I think you mismatched competitive games with some PvE player role playing game where you slash NPCs, where tanks does no damage and dps does all the damage.see, thief still manages to be meta when other classes are overtuned, like it has always been doing.mobility>damage=tankiness.

Its meta, yes, but not as an assassin. Its meta as an errand boy. Someone who runs around the map, and stands on points.

or if you simply prefer brawling over roaming, switch class, who plays only one class in a competitive team based game?

Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

In which Moba roamer does a tons of damage? mostly it's AD carry that needs a support to play with him that does the most damageand class based shooter like overwatch, tanks can basically one/two shot dps class, while dps like tracer only does damage when at close-mid and requires high aiming skill and genji without shuting down low hp target when going in is dead weight.

The most DPS, yes. But the highest

burst

is roaming assassins. In which case the answer is "well, all of them, actually". As for class-based shooters, dunno Overwatch well enough (though I recall Reaper bursts pretty hard), but TF2s SPY was capable of a one-hit KO on all targets. And rather high damage headshots.

and shooter? like you mean when everybody has the same mobility? yea, not sure why you bring this up, but even in call of duty, the sprinter knife build were you run so fast and one shot with knife is heavily nerfed since modern warfare 2.

I was thinking more TF2, actually. Or Planetside. Or even Paladins.

clearly, you don't know competitive games.high mobility high damage only applies in PvE

Clearly

you

dont. High Mobility High Burst is a classic archetype that practically

no

competitive game doesnt have. They lack DPS, but Burst-wise, high mobility classes

always

are the best at it.

lol, because tf2, planetside and paladins are highly competitive right?

While some of them may be past their prime, yes they were quite competitive at a time.

burst nukes are still ADC/marksman, or some times mid liner/mages, never roamer that roam around shuts down weak target, sorry.

Im going to assume that you simply dont play MOBAs, because "burst nukes are still ADC/Marksman" is just about the most wrong thing I have ever heard. No, ADC/Marksmen never burst. You know who is great at bursting? Characters like Talon (roamer), Zed (Roamer), Fizz (Roamer), Leblanc (Roamer), Qiyana (Roamer), Diana (Roamer) and various junglers (roamers by default). I could go on, but you get the idea, dont you? Its no different in other MOBAs either. QoP, Bounty, and so on for Dota. Illidan, Lee Ming, Valeera, and so on for HotS. Theyre all roamers. Because thats most of the burst heroes. The other category that likes to burst are burst mages, that focus on teamfighting. But theyre a rarer breed nowadays.

reaper burst is pretty hard within dps, so? doesnt change the fact that tanks overall can one/two shot dps in overwatch.and reason reaper burst is pretty hard, because it's mobility is almost half of what others have.

Reapers mobility is actually pretty hard to match for most characters. Those that can, still burst a lot. And as for tanks, Iunno, I told you I didnt play it enough to give details. I can tell you though, if its different, then its the exception, not the rule.

[Lighter.5631]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:...> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Gw2 is the only game I've played where the assassin class has thee lowest damage on the majority of its skill. The class has to resort to weak kitten backstabs and lame 300 damage autos against today's super sustain classes. Defenitly not the burst class u want to take down the opositions tank lmao.The team tried but their lowering build deversity AND class deversity at the same time, hope they fix it.Best thing is there are still thief haters going around saying their op still laughing quietly going they stay in this sad asf state.

i guess u arent playing any competitive game, any character with high mobility and high exist ability does little damage, specially assassin class are supposed to poke damage and only go in to shut down low HP target when played at equal level and never go toe to toe against a tank or brawler and fights are often initiated by tanks/brawler and often brawler does a ton more damage if you go toe to toe. there's no such thing as "burst class".

Except for Mobas, where they do a lot of damage. And other MMOs, where they do a lot of damage. And shooters, where they can usually oneshot. And PvP games that dont fall into any of these categories (stuff like Gigantic), where they do a lot of damage. Actually, now that I think about it, I cant thing of a

single

competitive game where they do little damage.

I think you mismatched competitive games with some PvE player role playing game where you slash NPCs, where tanks does no damage and dps does all the damage.see, thief still manages to be meta when other classes are overtuned, like it has always been doing.mobility>damage=tankiness.

Its meta, yes, but not as an assassin. Its meta as an errand boy. Someone who runs around the map, and stands on points.

or if you simply prefer brawling over roaming, switch class, who plays only one class in a competitive team based game?

Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

In which Moba roamer does a tons of damage? mostly it's AD carry that needs a support to play with him that does the most damageand class based shooter like overwatch, tanks can basically one/two shot dps class, while dps like tracer only does damage when at close-mid and requires high aiming skill and genji without shuting down low hp target when going in is dead weight.

The most DPS, yes. But the highest

burst

is roaming assassins. In which case the answer is "well, all of them, actually". As for class-based shooters, dunno Overwatch well enough (though I recall Reaper bursts pretty hard), but TF2s SPY was capable of a one-hit KO on all targets. And rather high damage headshots.

and shooter? like you mean when everybody has the same mobility? yea, not sure why you bring this up, but even in call of duty, the sprinter knife build were you run so fast and one shot with knife is heavily nerfed since modern warfare 2.

I was thinking more TF2, actually. Or Planetside. Or even Paladins.

clearly, you don't know competitive games.high mobility high damage only applies in PvE

Clearly

you

dont. High Mobility High Burst is a classic archetype that practically

no

competitive game doesnt have. They lack DPS, but Burst-wise, high mobility classes

always

are the best at it.

lol, because tf2, planetside and paladins are highly competitive right?

While some of them may be past their prime, yes they were quite competitive at a time.

burst nukes are still ADC/marksman, or some times mid liner/mages, never roamer that roam around shuts down weak target, sorry.

Im going to assume that you simply dont play MOBAs, because "burst nukes are still ADC/Marksman" is just about the most

wrong

thing I have ever heard. No, ADC/Marksmen never burst. You know who is great at bursting? Characters like Talon (roamer), Zed (Roamer), Fizz (Roamer), Leblanc (Roamer), Qiyana (Roamer), Diana (Roamer) and various junglers (roamers by default). I could go on, but you get the idea, dont you? Its no different in other MOBAs either. QoP, Bounty, and so on for Dota. Illidan, Lee Ming, Valeera, and so on for HotS. Theyre all roamers. Because thats most of the burst heroes. The other category that likes to burst are burst mages, that focus on teamfighting. But theyre a rarer breed nowadays.

reaper burst is pretty hard within dps, so? doesnt change the fact that tanks overall can one/two shot dps in overwatch.and reason reaper burst is pretty hard, because it's mobility is almost half of what others have.

Reapers mobility is actually pretty hard to match for most characters. Those that can, still burst a lot. And as for tanks, Iunno, I told you I didnt play it enough to give details. I can tell you though, if its different, then its the

exception

, not the rule.

lol no, almost all champion you mentioned are meta in mid line and does better burst damage playing mid lane instead of roam jungle.champion role is not fixed, same champion mid lane does better burst then jungle.you still keep mentioning reaper how it burst hard, how it's mobility unmatched,ofc it's mobility is unmatched if opponent is tanks, that's why tanks does reaper damage while also having double it's HP.ofc it's burst is decent compared to other dps, because it's mobility is no where close to other mobile dps.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:...> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Gw2 is the only game I've played where the assassin class has thee lowest damage on the majority of its skill. The class has to resort to weak kitten backstabs and lame 300 damage autos against today's super sustain classes. Defenitly not the burst class u want to take down the opositions tank lmao.The team tried but their lowering build deversity AND class deversity at the same time, hope they fix it.Best thing is there are still thief haters going around saying their op still laughing quietly going they stay in this sad asf state.

i guess u arent playing any competitive game, any character with high mobility and high exist ability does little damage, specially assassin class are supposed to poke damage and only go in to shut down low HP target when played at equal level and never go toe to toe against a tank or brawler and fights are often initiated by tanks/brawler and often brawler does a ton more damage if you go toe to toe. there's no such thing as "burst class".

Except for Mobas, where they do a lot of damage. And other MMOs, where they do a lot of damage. And shooters, where they can usually oneshot. And PvP games that dont fall into any of these categories (stuff like Gigantic), where they do a lot of damage. Actually, now that I think about it, I cant thing of a

single

competitive game where they do little damage.

I think you mismatched competitive games with some PvE player role playing game where you slash NPCs, where tanks does no damage and dps does all the damage.see, thief still manages to be meta when other classes are overtuned, like it has always been doing.mobility>damage=tankiness.

Its meta, yes, but not as an assassin. Its meta as an errand boy. Someone who runs around the map, and stands on points.

or if you simply prefer brawling over roaming, switch class, who plays only one class in a competitive team based game?

Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

In which Moba roamer does a tons of damage? mostly it's AD carry that needs a support to play with him that does the most damageand class based shooter like overwatch, tanks can basically one/two shot dps class, while dps like tracer only does damage when at close-mid and requires high aiming skill and genji without shuting down low hp target when going in is dead weight.

The most DPS, yes. But the highest

burst

is roaming assassins. In which case the answer is "well, all of them, actually". As for class-based shooters, dunno Overwatch well enough (though I recall Reaper bursts pretty hard), but TF2s SPY was capable of a one-hit KO on all targets. And rather high damage headshots.

and shooter? like you mean when everybody has the same mobility? yea, not sure why you bring this up, but even in call of duty, the sprinter knife build were you run so fast and one shot with knife is heavily nerfed since modern warfare 2.

I was thinking more TF2, actually. Or Planetside. Or even Paladins.

clearly, you don't know competitive games.high mobility high damage only applies in PvE

Clearly

you

dont. High Mobility High Burst is a classic archetype that practically

no

competitive game doesnt have. They lack DPS, but Burst-wise, high mobility classes

always

are the best at it.

lol, because tf2, planetside and paladins are highly competitive right?

While some of them may be past their prime, yes they were quite competitive at a time.

burst nukes are still ADC/marksman, or some times mid liner/mages, never roamer that roam around shuts down weak target, sorry.

Im going to assume that you simply dont play MOBAs, because "burst nukes are still ADC/Marksman" is just about the most

wrong

thing I have ever heard. No, ADC/Marksmen never burst. You know who is great at bursting? Characters like Talon (roamer), Zed (Roamer), Fizz (Roamer), Leblanc (Roamer), Qiyana (Roamer), Diana (Roamer) and various junglers (roamers by default). I could go on, but you get the idea, dont you? Its no different in other MOBAs either. QoP, Bounty, and so on for Dota. Illidan, Lee Ming, Valeera, and so on for HotS. Theyre all roamers. Because thats most of the burst heroes. The other category that likes to burst are burst mages, that focus on teamfighting. But theyre a rarer breed nowadays.

reaper burst is pretty hard within dps, so? doesnt change the fact that tanks overall can one/two shot dps in overwatch.and reason reaper burst is pretty hard, because it's mobility is almost half of what others have.

Reapers mobility is actually pretty hard to match for most characters. Those that can, still burst a lot. And as for tanks, Iunno, I told you I didnt play it enough to give details. I can tell you though, if its different, then its the

exception

, not the rule.

lol no, almost all champion you mentioned are meta in mid line and does better burst damage playing mid lane instead of roam jungle.you still keep mentioning reaper how it burst hard, how it's mobility unmatched,ofc it's mobility is unmatched if opponent is tanks, that's why tanks does reaper damage while also having double it's HP.ofc it's burst is decent compared to other dps, because it's mobility is no where close to other mobile dps.

... wait are you confusing "jungler" with "roamer"? Roamer is just anyone who has high mobility and roams around the map. I.e., all of those characters are roamers. Your point was that "high mobility, high damage" characters supposedly dont exist, yet all of these are exactly those kinds of characters, and every single MOBA has them.

Again, cant say with too much detail, but when I played only 2 characters could match Reapers shadowstep mobility, Genji and Hanzo. Both of which still did really high damage.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:...> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Gw2 is the only game I've played where the assassin class has thee lowest damage on the majority of its skill. The class has to resort to weak kitten backstabs and lame 300 damage autos against today's super sustain classes. Defenitly not the burst class u want to take down the opositions tank lmao.The team tried but their lowering build deversity AND class deversity at the same time, hope they fix it.Best thing is there are still thief haters going around saying their op still laughing quietly going they stay in this sad asf state.

i guess u arent playing any competitive game, any character with high mobility and high exist ability does little damage, specially assassin class are supposed to poke damage and only go in to shut down low HP target when played at equal level and never go toe to toe against a tank or brawler and fights are often initiated by tanks/brawler and often brawler does a ton more damage if you go toe to toe. there's no such thing as "burst class".

Except for Mobas, where they do a lot of damage. And other MMOs, where they do a lot of damage. And shooters, where they can usually oneshot. And PvP games that dont fall into any of these categories (stuff like Gigantic), where they do a lot of damage. Actually, now that I think about it, I cant thing of a

single

competitive game where they do little damage.

I think you mismatched competitive games with some PvE player role playing game where you slash NPCs, where tanks does no damage and dps does all the damage.see, thief still manages to be meta when other classes are overtuned, like it has always been doing.mobility>damage=tankiness.

Its meta, yes, but not as an assassin. Its meta as an errand boy. Someone who runs around the map, and stands on points.

or if you simply prefer brawling over roaming, switch class, who plays only one class in a competitive team based game?

Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

In which Moba roamer does a tons of damage? mostly it's AD carry that needs a support to play with him that does the most damageand class based shooter like overwatch, tanks can basically one/two shot dps class, while dps like tracer only does damage when at close-mid and requires high aiming skill and genji without shuting down low hp target when going in is dead weight.

The most DPS, yes. But the highest

burst

is roaming assassins. In which case the answer is "well, all of them, actually". As for class-based shooters, dunno Overwatch well enough (though I recall Reaper bursts pretty hard), but TF2s SPY was capable of a one-hit KO on all targets. And rather high damage headshots.

and shooter? like you mean when everybody has the same mobility? yea, not sure why you bring this up, but even in call of duty, the sprinter knife build were you run so fast and one shot with knife is heavily nerfed since modern warfare 2.

I was thinking more TF2, actually. Or Planetside. Or even Paladins.

clearly, you don't know competitive games.high mobility high damage only applies in PvE

Clearly

you

dont. High Mobility High Burst is a classic archetype that practically

no

competitive game doesnt have. They lack DPS, but Burst-wise, high mobility classes

always

are the best at it.

lol, because tf2, planetside and paladins are highly competitive right?

While some of them may be past their prime, yes they were quite competitive at a time.

burst nukes are still ADC/marksman, or some times mid liner/mages, never roamer that roam around shuts down weak target, sorry.

Im going to assume that you simply dont play MOBAs, because "burst nukes are still ADC/Marksman" is just about the most

wrong

thing I have ever heard. No, ADC/Marksmen never burst. You know who is great at bursting? Characters like Talon (roamer), Zed (Roamer), Fizz (Roamer), Leblanc (Roamer), Qiyana (Roamer), Diana (Roamer) and various junglers (roamers by default). I could go on, but you get the idea, dont you? Its no different in other MOBAs either. QoP, Bounty, and so on for Dota. Illidan, Lee Ming, Valeera, and so on for HotS. Theyre all roamers. Because thats most of the burst heroes. The other category that likes to burst are burst mages, that focus on teamfighting. But theyre a rarer breed nowadays.

reaper burst is pretty hard within dps, so? doesnt change the fact that tanks overall can one/two shot dps in overwatch.and reason reaper burst is pretty hard, because it's mobility is almost half of what others have.

Reapers mobility is actually pretty hard to match for most characters. Those that can, still burst a lot. And as for tanks, Iunno, I told you I didnt play it enough to give details. I can tell you though, if its different, then its the

exception

, not the rule.

lol no, almost all champion you mentioned are meta in mid line and does better burst damage playing mid lane instead of roam jungle.you still keep mentioning reaper how it burst hard, how it's mobility unmatched,ofc it's mobility is unmatched if opponent is tanks, that's why tanks does reaper damage while also having double it's HP.ofc it's burst is decent compared to other dps, because it's mobility is no where close to other mobile dps.

... wait are you confusing "jungler" with "roamer"? Roamer is just anyone who has high mobility and roams around the map. I.e., all of those characters are roamers. Your point was that "high mobility, high damage" characters supposedly dont exist, yet all of these are

exactly

those kinds of characters, and

every single MOBA

has them.

Again, cant say with too much detail, but when I played only 2 characters could match Reapers shadowstep mobility, Genji and Hanzo. Both of which still did really high damage.

Im going to assume that you simply dont play MOBAs, because any1 can burst .Its called max out and gear up crit chance/ or ability Power +Lich Bane + Luden's Echo .Even teemo , can burst down other none-defence gear character in 2 sec ...before his Blind ends , with crit or ability powerHeck i even use Anivia ...a mage that all attacks benefit from ability Power , but i gear her up as crit chance ...doing 600 crit every 0.45 sec vs any character that has 1800-2100 hp with 4 gears , before my aoe stun ends , or my Frozen Wall dont allow all meele characters to pash throught and come to me :PIf i feel funky i use Blade of the Ruined King as my 5th gear and aim to kill the enemy in 1.4 sec:P

Dont allow Thief to have a Swap Weapon Mechanic ...just like Rev at HoT .Then he wont be able to chance stance/playstyle (From Backstab> to an evasive like S/D/Stuff-stuff) just like mobas .Spells like Heartseeker , or Unhindered Combatant , will be his mobility , and we can buff his attacks to other assasin standards from other games :P

(Can you immagine if you could have Genji + Reaper in one character and switch between them ,with a button ? Blizzard hire me for my ideas!)

[Vancho.8750]

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:...> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Gw2 is the only game I've played where the assassin class has thee lowest damage on the majority of its skill. The class has to resort to weak kitten backstabs and lame 300 damage autos against today's super sustain classes. Defenitly not the burst class u want to take down the opositions tank lmao.The team tried but their lowering build deversity AND class deversity at the same time, hope they fix it.Best thing is there are still thief haters going around saying their op still laughing quietly going they stay in this sad asf state.

i guess u arent playing any competitive game, any character with high mobility and high exist ability does little damage, specially assassin class are supposed to poke damage and only go in to shut down low HP target when played at equal level and never go toe to toe against a tank or brawler and fights are often initiated by tanks/brawler and often brawler does a ton more damage if you go toe to toe. there's no such thing as "burst class".

Except for Mobas, where they do a lot of damage. And other MMOs, where they do a lot of damage. And shooters, where they can usually oneshot. And PvP games that dont fall into any of these categories (stuff like Gigantic), where they do a lot of damage. Actually, now that I think about it, I cant thing of a

single

competitive game where they do little damage.

I think you mismatched competitive games with some PvE player role playing game where you slash NPCs, where tanks does no damage and dps does all the damage.see, thief still manages to be meta when other classes are overtuned, like it has always been doing.mobility>damage=tankiness.

Its meta, yes, but not as an assassin. Its meta as an errand boy. Someone who runs around the map, and stands on points.

or if you simply prefer brawling over roaming, switch class, who plays only one class in a competitive team based game?

Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

In which Moba roamer does a tons of damage? mostly it's AD carry that needs a support to play with him that does the most damageand class based shooter like overwatch, tanks can basically one/two shot dps class, while dps like tracer only does damage when at close-mid and requires high aiming skill and genji without shuting down low hp target when going in is dead weight.

The most DPS, yes. But the highest

burst

is roaming assassins. In which case the answer is "well, all of them, actually". As for class-based shooters, dunno Overwatch well enough (though I recall Reaper bursts pretty hard), but TF2s SPY was capable of a one-hit KO on all targets. And rather high damage headshots.

and shooter? like you mean when everybody has the same mobility? yea, not sure why you bring this up, but even in call of duty, the sprinter knife build were you run so fast and one shot with knife is heavily nerfed since modern warfare 2.

I was thinking more TF2, actually. Or Planetside. Or even Paladins.

clearly, you don't know competitive games.high mobility high damage only applies in PvE

Clearly

you

dont. High Mobility High Burst is a classic archetype that practically

no

competitive game doesnt have. They lack DPS, but Burst-wise, high mobility classes

always

are the best at it.

lol, because tf2, planetside and paladins are highly competitive right?

While some of them may be past their prime, yes they were quite competitive at a time.

burst nukes are still ADC/marksman, or some times mid liner/mages, never roamer that roam around shuts down weak target, sorry.

Im going to assume that you simply dont play MOBAs, because "burst nukes are still ADC/Marksman" is just about the most

wrong

thing I have ever heard. No, ADC/Marksmen never burst. You know who is great at bursting? Characters like Talon (roamer), Zed (Roamer), Fizz (Roamer), Leblanc (Roamer), Qiyana (Roamer), Diana (Roamer) and various junglers (roamers by default). I could go on, but you get the idea, dont you? Its no different in other MOBAs either. QoP, Bounty, and so on for Dota. Illidan, Lee Ming, Valeera, and so on for HotS. Theyre all roamers. Because thats most of the burst heroes. The other category that likes to burst are burst mages, that focus on teamfighting. But theyre a rarer breed nowadays.

reaper burst is pretty hard within dps, so? doesnt change the fact that tanks overall can one/two shot dps in overwatch.and reason reaper burst is pretty hard, because it's mobility is almost half of what others have.

Reapers mobility is actually pretty hard to match for most characters. Those that can, still burst a lot. And as for tanks, Iunno, I told you I didnt play it enough to give details. I can tell you though, if its different, then its the

exception

, not the rule.

lol no, almost all champion you mentioned are meta in mid line and does better burst damage playing mid lane instead of roam jungle.you still keep mentioning reaper how it burst hard, how it's mobility unmatched,ofc it's mobility is unmatched if opponent is tanks, that's why tanks does reaper damage while also having double it's HP.ofc it's burst is decent compared to other dps, because it's mobility is no where close to other mobile dps.

... wait are you confusing "jungler" with "roamer"? Roamer is just anyone who has high mobility and roams around the map. I.e., all of those characters are roamers. Your point was that "high mobility, high damage" characters supposedly dont exist, yet all of these are

exactly

those kinds of characters, and

every single MOBA

has them.

Again, cant say with too much detail, but when I played only 2 characters could match Reapers shadowstep mobility, Genji and Hanzo. Both of which still did really high damage.

Im going to assume that you simply dont play MOBAs, because any1 can burst .Its called max out and gear up crit chance/ or ability Power +Lich Bane + Luden's Echo .Even teemo , can burst down other none-defence gear character in 2 sec ...before his Blind ends , with crit or ability powerHeck i even use Anivia ...a mage that all attacks benefit from ability Power , but i gear her up as crit chance ...doing 600 crit every 0.45 sec vs any character that has 1800-2100 hp with 4 gears , before my aoe stun ends , or my Frozen Wall dont allow all meele characters to pash throught and come to me :PIf i feel funky i use Blade of the Ruined King as my 5th gear and aim to kill the enemy in 1.4 sec:P

Dont allow Thief to have a Swap Weapon Mechanic ...just like Rev at HoT .Then he wont be able to chance stance/playstyle (From Backstab> to an evasive like S/D/Stuff-stuff) just like mobas .Spells like Heartseeker , or Unhindered Combatant , will be his mobility , and we can buff his attacks to other assasin standards from other games :P

(Can you immagine if you could have Genji + Reaper in one character and switch between them ,with a button ? Blizzard hire me for my ideas!)

I think you are about something here, maybe the next elite would get only one weapon set (maybe even a GS) so it has to pick what to do.As long as thief has the high mobility it can't be high damage and have really good defense with dodge.There should be a build for damage, a build for speed, and maybe a build for side node dueling which are mutually exclusive to each other. As for now Shortbow just allows thief to zip around the map without anyone being able to reach them. That is why you need more build variety so we have option to counter stuff, now the only good counter to the mobility of thief is being a bunker and we have the condi bunker meta now. We need some other option to be able to deal with thief since no one is having fun trying to down a bunker for 2 minutes.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

When players that dont play the class try and discuss how it should be balanced always offer up ideas that would destroy the class, weird...... lol

[megilandil.7506]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

then have to lose all their movility, a class that can cross the map in few seconds and is a relliable duelist is op for the conquest game

[UNOwen.7132]

@megilandil.7506 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

then have to lose all their movility, a class that can cross the map in few seconds and is a relliable duelist is op for the conquest game

Not all, since even duelists have mobility, but yeah they would have to lose a good chunk of their mobility. Shortbow 5, to be precise.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@megilandil.7506 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

then have to lose all their movility, a class that can cross the map in few seconds and is a relliable duelist is op for the conquest game

So it can be a good duelers with lowest hp/armor and no mobility lmao right. So other classes that have great mobility and higher hp,armor and sustain skills are ok cuz it has bit less mobility than thief but thief has to lose all mobility. Unless u meant they would also get a hp and armor boost but then wouldn't feel like a rogue burst class. I think u guys are confused. Thief's don't want to be able to stick in a fight for long but instead want to be a high burst and get out type playstyle, u kno like a rogue type class lol. Having great sustained damage and being able to stay in a fight for a longer duration is just as good as doing enough burst to be effective in a short amount of time but not having the sustain to be in the fight for long. It's pretty easy to understand. A class that cant take half the amount oh damage has to be able to apply its damage in the time it has, on the other side usually classes that can stick in a fight longer are able to be as viable as the high burst class because they can stick in the fight longer to secure the down. Right now we-ve got those high sustain classes that can stick in fights far longer than thief out bursting the thief and providing the sustained damage if need be and that is very bad balancing on cmc side of things.