ANet numbers regarding GW2. Discussion.

STIHL.2489 · October 10, 2017

@Kheldorn.5123 said:
Well this was a pretty funny read all things said and done. But, IIRC, Anet didn't give out the numbers for HoT,

right before HoT they made an interview where they claimed they sold 5 mil boxes of a game, still this info is for both core and HoT preorders and has nothing to do with player number.

I remember them talking about total units sold, and talking about F2P accounts made as well, but, I thought those numbers were in the 9 million range... but it's been a while and my search fu- is lacking.

Samnang.1879 · October 10, 2017

u'know a lot of players dont have gold to get griffon or they dont like doing the achievements, right? i'd say 50k is a pretty good number for an expansion...i believe it brought back many players, many positive feedback on PoF in comparison to HoT launch.

tairneanach.8427 · October 11, 2017

@Cristalyan.5728 said:
11 millions players ... I saw here on this forum a lot of ppl claiming they have more than one account - payed account. I saw the signature of one colleagues stating he has 30 accounts. That means is more accurate to say that the number of accounts is 11 millions. Players are less.

Likely, but so what?

Edit: Actually, since the site specifically says 11 million players I should think that that's actually the amount of players rather than accounts. Look at similar releases by, say, Blizzard, who are careful to always talk about active accounts, not players. It's quite important in the corporate world to be precise about what numbers you throw around lest your shareholders take offense.

53 millions characters for 11 millions accounts means an average of almost 5 characters per account. Normal you can say. But, I saw here, on this forum, many, many players stating they have tens of characters (some having the maximum number of characters). Even I, a non character addicted, have 13 characters. That means a lot of accounts have less than 5 characters per account. By buying the game you can create 5 characters - this is free after buying the game. And still there are lot of accounts with less than 5. I can conclude from this that the degree of retaining new players is low if you don't play enough to need 5 characters (even for storage space if not for effectively playing)

I have nine characters, but I don't need them for storage space. That would be highly inconvenient. By the way: Free accounts get a whopping two character slots. And lastly: A significant amount of people prefer to play one character exclusively. They still play a ton, they just don't feel the need to play more characters. I can't really imagine sticking with one myself, but hey, to each their own.

430 773 344 hearts completed. This is IMPRESSIVE at the first look. But, only in core Tyria we have around 330 hearts. That means the core Tyria was completed by +1,3 millions characters. HM? 1,3 from 53 ? That means ~2,5% from all the characters completed the core Tyria. I also saw here, on the Forum a lot of persons claiming that they completed the map several times (some of them tens of times). I completed the map (all the maps, not only Tyria) 3 times. My conclusion: less than 1 million players completed a map discovery in Tyria. Comparing this with the total number of accounts .... that means ~9% of the players completed Tyria.

Which literally means nothing. Not everyone sees completing maps as a priority. Some don't enjoy that part that much. Heck, I'm sure there are people who prefer to play PvP over anything else who haven't completed a single map.

Finally: +50 000 griffons. We know (from the more or less accurate data from GW2 efficiency) that HoT lost a lot of players in its 2 year existence. How many - hard to say. But the playerbase was smaller at the end of HoT that at the beginning. And from this smaller playerbase a part bought PoF. From the players with PoF, over 50 000 have the griffon.

Experience says that new expansions can and do bring back old players. Assuming that only those that stuck through HoT would buy PoF is just plain silly.

Disclaimer: This is my estimation, based on my own observations. It may be inaccurate or entirely wrong. I will post it because it completes what I write:So, I consider that around 40-50% from the PoF players already have the griffon. Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. That means the majority of the PoF owners had the skills and the money to acquire the griffon. Only the time is a problem for some of them.So, this is the reason I considered this percentage. From this, my conclusion is that 100-120 000 players have PoF.

That's not an estimation, that's pure guesswork, but others have told you that already. I know that anecdotes aren't evidence, but consider this: A friend of mine who has invested more time into the game than I do has, I think, barely 200 gold to his name. He can't afford that griffon. I have about 600 gold at the moment (lucky break last halloween, mostly, but also selling lots of materials) and I'm not sure I even want to buy the griffon because he's so expensive. I'm still recoiling from the shock of completing my first set of ascended armour.

PSA: Medium armour is expensive, kids, what with all the leather involved.

Conclusion: Starting from 11 millions accounts having the vanilla and ending with 0,1 millions owning PoF, it seems that GW2 is doing a very poor job to keep the veterans playing. I don't know if this is related only with the game - for me GW2 seems to be a very good MMO. Maybe the management of this game is a little bit ... wrong?

Most likely it's your conclusion that's wrong. I mean, sure, you could be right, but that would be a lucky guess on your part, not due to the conclusions you've reached.

It's interesting to see which numbers you didn't factor into your guess, though: "over 61 free releases" and "over 2 million new words of voice and text" - that's a lot of money to invest in a game with a low player count. My guess is that Anet are making enough money to make a profit despite having to pay writers, voice actors, graphics teams, coders and who knows who else to create additional content.

Oldirtbeard.9834 · October 11, 2017

I'm assuming that Griffin number is closer to 100,000 now, keep in mind most players don't have 250g laying around so I assume 1 out of 5 players probably either have Griffons or are working on them. I assume a substantial minority plays actively as F2P players maybe 100k now that the expansion has peaked interest.

My guess is conservatively the game might have with a combo of PoF players, HoT players, and F2P players 500,000.

Realistically we're probably at 750,000.

Optimistically 1,000,000

Any of these numbers is a healthy population for any MMO that isn't World of Warcraft.

My optimistic number is based off of GW2 original sales, social media activity such as Reddit where we only trail WoW as far as MMOs go.

Firebrand.4796 · October 11, 2017

There really is no way of knowing what ANET considers active subs. Is it log in daily, monthly, quarterly or whatnot. They'll get a nice lift off PoF, people will burn through the content and move on to something else and come back. PoF doesn't have legs when you compare to the content dumps of FFXIV or even WoW lately. That will hurt active players in the long run.

GrubySzymek.1362 · October 11, 2017

When around HoT they claimed that if you log in once a month you are considered active account in their statistics.

Actually, since the site specifically says 11 million players I should think that that's actually the amount of players rather than accounts.

lol no, this is not a sub game which means all they can count is how many accounts people created, both paid and free, I believe it's total number of all accounts created since launch because in no way I'm gonna believe GW2 has 11 million players

Rognik.2579 · October 11, 2017

@Cristalyan.5728 said:
11 millions players ... I saw here on this forum a lot of ppl claiming they have more than one account - payed account. I saw the signature of one colleagues stating he has 30 accounts. That means is more accurate to say that the number of accounts is 11 millions. Players are less.This is fair. There are definitely players who have more than one account, for a variety of reasons. But this also doesn't account for player retention, as with no subscription, we don't know how many of those accounts are active. I also know some people who have an account, but for some reason or another, have forgotten their password or lost the means to log back in.
53 millions characters for 11 millions accounts means an average of almost 5 characters per account. Normal you can say. But, I saw here, on this forum, many, many players stating they have tens of characters (some having the maximum number of characters). Even I, a non character addicted, have 13 characters. That means a lot of accounts have less than 5 characters per account. By buying the game you can create 5 characters - this is free after buying the game. And still there are lot of accounts with less than 5. I can conclude from this that the degree of retaining new players is low if you don't play enough to need 5 characters (even for storage space if not for effectively playing)Sure, you can create up to 5 accounts if you have bought the game in some form, but not everyone will. You can't assume everyone is going to even try half the classes, or keep an alt if they decide they aren't having fun. Then there are those accounts where they start deleting old characters for any number of reasons.
430 773 344 hearts completed. This is IMPRESSIVE at the first look. But, only in core Tyria we have around 330 hearts. That means the core Tyria was completed by +1,3 millions characters. HM? 1,3 from 53 ? That means ~2,5% from all the characters completed the core Tyria. I also saw here, on the Forum a lot of persons claiming that they completed the map several times (some of them tens of times). I completed the map (all the maps, not only Tyria) 3 times. My conclusion: less than 1 million players completed a map discovery in Tyria. Comparing this with the total number of accounts .... that means ~9% of the players completed Tyria.And not everyone enjoys doing map completion. I'm pretty sure many people haven't been through much of the Ascalon maps just because no story told people to go there. That's probably the biggest reason why Mordremoth attacked Iron Marches in LWS2E3, just so people have a reason to actually go there besides simple map completion.
Almost 1 million guilds. We have 11 millions accounts, but less than 11 millions players playing the game during its lifetime. That means an average of 10 players per guild. HM. With HoT the tendency was to annihilate the small guilds in favor of the larger (meta) guilds. I think it is an interesting detail if ANet will give us the number of guilds founded after the HoT release.You also ignored that players can have 0-5 guilds. Some people don't want to join a guild, while others create a guild merely to be a larger, cheaper personal bank.
Finally: +50 000 griffons. We know (from the more or less accurate data from GW2 efficiency) that HoT lost a lot of players in its 2 year existence. How many - hard to say. But the playerbase was smaller at the end of HoT that at the beginning. And from this smaller playerbase a part bought PoF. From the players with PoF, over 50 000 have the griffon.This 50,000 number doesn't have a reliable source, so this this probably the worst assumption. The others are pretty bad, but this one is very outstanding.Disclaimer: This is my estimation, based on my own observations. It may be inaccurate or entirely wrong. I will post it because it completes what I write:So, I consider that around 40-50% from the PoF players already have the griffon. Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. That means the majority of the PoF owners had the skills and the money to acquire the griffon. Only the time is a problem for some of them.Right, how can you estimate this? This seems like a random number, with absolutely no basis to back it up.

Conclusion: nothing meaningful is concluded from any of this.

Torolan.5816 · October 11, 2017

@Genesis.5169 said:What the hell makes people think HoT lost many players? I came back to gw2 because of HoT's, HoT doesn't feel like a single player experience even if HoT did lose "casuals" it made up for it with a really dedicated raiding community and people like me who do everything and felt outside of pvp core tyria was faceroll the keyboard and farming for 250 lodestones for fashionwars 2.
And personally i'd take a dedicated few then the many who are just passing through. And one little caveat, i have no proof of this but in my experience dedicated players tend to buy stuff the game more often on a longer timespan, i believe HoT increased the life span of GW2 because it pulled alot of people from FF14 (and prolly other mmos but i can't speak on them) because HW launch was terribly balanced at launch i was one of those who returned to this game and was pleasantly surprised at the HoT maps, new fotm, and raids. And from what i see now there are far more people even now in HoT maps then PoF maps because after you do story where's all the fun and the loot and the group content?
Yep its in HoT.Sorry i just had to get that out so many people on the forums hate on HoT
And to the topic, PoF expansion is success the only mistake i believe anet made is ruining the black lion chest with all these crappy god kitten raptors and a lack of new cosmetics for the new expansion gem and non gem.
Also remember new players come and go and casuals have no real foundation in the game, for example raiding guilds and wvw guilds the players there tend to have been around since core, they buy gems regularly (or don't if they have gotten everything that they have wanted). Casuals don't have that dedication to login everyday for 2-3years buy 50$ in gems on Black lion chests for a back pack or something. I appreciate your intention OP but your far from the actual scope of what makes an mmo successful

Speaking about people hating on HoT made me curious. The first incarnation of HoT was garbage for me, plain and simple.Monsters packed a heavy punch, not too heavy for me personally, but after playing some hours it was pretty obvious that the average berserker dungeon stacker gamer would die in HoT against everything, not to speak about hero challenges with big baddies.Unreasonable and unfunny minigames with the clear goal to stretch content for not getting yelled at immediately.Rushed storyline. I guess a large potion of people would agree with me when I say that some stories had to be drastically shortened to keep the timeline.Content drought. Not the fault of HoT, but there it started.*You need skills you can not have at start to get all the MP on the first map. Who thaught that over? That´s frustration all over the board waiting to happen.

Today, I would say HoT is okayish, but far from really good.

Anet basically made the gamers climb out of their Honda Civic and climb into a Ferrari. That this would not end well should not be that surprising, you can´t expect the average Joe to win the Indy car series over night. The real question is if your dedicated raiders can in raw numbers make up for the casuals. Yes, I guess raiders are more dedicated to the game, but I don´t see how someone who really knows how to play the game buys more gems than converting them. Dedication means time, and time means gold.And as we are speaking about dedication, I think you are right with wvw guilds who stayed beside virtually no help at all from Anet, but raiders? Why shoud someone who does things for the thrill of doing so stay in a game constantly that only releases a raid wing once a few months? Adrenaline obviously can´t be stored forever, you reach a farm status sooner or later if you are really trying.

The casual gamers market exploded some years ago, it is where the money sits today. Teenage girls whom I personally would not thrust my plants to wet, snot nosed kids who tell me how they made a driveby in GTA last night, silver gamers etc etc...

maddoctor.2738 · October 11, 2017

I'd like to have an updated API that also counts Mounts. Comparing the number of players who own a Griffon on gw2efficiency and the numbers given by Anet would give some very interesting results (which is probably why we do not have Mounts on the API).

Guild Wars 2 doing a poor job at player retention is old news, much older than the first expansion. But that's probably because during the first year it sold way too much due to hype, I don't think anyone, even the developers, expected those 11 million to stay active forever.

You see, expansion sales are good and all, however, is it a fault of Heart of Thorns that it did not get 11 million sales like the core game? Or of the core game that failed to retain the vast majority of those 11 million initial sales?

And there is one major flaw in any discussion about Guild Wars 2 numbers:We do not know the number of "active" players, nor we can accurately identify who an "active" player is because there is no subscription fee.25k griffons out of 11 million is a tiny number. 25k griffons out of all the Path of Fire owners will probably be a much higher percentage.It's the same with any other kind of percentages often used on these forums. Let's say 20% of the players are playing Ranked PVP or that 10% of players are raiding.Percentage of WHAT? What's used as the 100%?

Faaris.8013 · October 11, 2017

Honestly OP, you lack the skills required to draw conclusions from statistics. There, someone had to say it, shoot me.

"Almost 1 million guilds. We have 11 millions accounts, but less than 11 millions players playing the game during its lifetime. That means an average of 10 players per guild." That is just the worst offense against math and logic in your post.

Healix.5819 · October 11, 2017

11 million is the total number of accounts created. For comparison, it was 3.5 million at the original launch, 5 million just prior to going F2P, 7 million just after HoT and now 11 million.

Ohoni.6057 · October 11, 2017

@Cristalyan.5728 said:11 millions players ... I saw here on this forum a lot of ppl claiming they have more than one account - payed account. I saw the signature of one colleagues stating he has 30 accounts. That means is more accurate to say that the number of accounts is 11 millions. Players are less.

Possibly true, although perhaps they do try to filter by unique players too, so while that might not catch people that are particularly shady about having multiple accounts, players that just use the same data for all their accounts might be tracked as a single player, impossible to tell. It's likely less than 11 million, but perhaps not "11 million minus ALL alt accounts."

My conclusion: less than 1 million players completed a map discovery in Tyria. Comparing this with the total number of accounts .... that means ~9% of the players completed Tyria.

Possibly, although this is a limited measure of player engagement. I consider myself a reasonably engaged player with a lot of alts who has been in game almost every day since launch, but only have a single world completion, and often ignore hearts that I don't absolutely need for anything.

Almost 1 million guilds. We have 11 millions accounts, but less than 11 millions players playing the game during its lifetime. That means an average of 10 players per guild. HM. With HoT the tendency was to annihilate the small guilds in favor of the larger (meta) guilds. I think it is an interesting detail if ANet will give us the number of guilds founded after the HoT release.

Possibly, but consider how many people have bank guilds of only one person. I mean I have one of those, had it since launch for the bank space alone.

Finally: +50 000 griffons. We know (from the more or less accurate data from GW2 efficiency) that HoT lost a lot of players in its 2 year existence. How many - hard to say. But the playerbase was smaller at the end of HoT that at the beginning. And from this smaller playerbase a part bought PoF. From the players with PoF, over 50 000 have the griffon.

Which means that there are at least 50K highly active players, but plenty of active players wouldn't have Griffons yet, because it is a reasonably involved and potentially costly process. Even in the long run, I imagine there will be some "serious" players who do not end up with a Griffon for various reasons.

I think you raise some interesting points, but I think your final estimation is low relative to the realities.

@maddoctor.2738 said:I'd like to have an updated API that also counts Mounts. Comparing the number of players who own a Griffon on gw2efficiency and the numbers given by Anet would give some very interesting results (which is probably why we do not have Mounts on the API).

The number of players that have a Springer, or even a Jackal would be more enlightening, since each requires a bit more effort than "rolling out of bed," but not nearly the investment as the Griffon.

Let's say 20% of the players are playing Ranked PVP or that 10% of players are raiding. Percentage of WHAT? What's used as the 100%?

Yeah, ideally we would have averaged statistics over a period of time, like how many people actually logged in and did a thing each day averaged over a period of weeks. Of course, Anet can actually do that on their end, so they have decent numbers to work with.

STIHL.2489 · October 11, 2017

@Torolan.5816 said:
@Genesis.5169 said:What the hell makes people think HoT lost many players? I came back to gw2 because of HoT's, HoT doesn't feel like a single player experience even if HoT did lose "casuals" it made up for it with a really dedicated raiding community and people like me who do everything and felt outside of pvp core tyria was faceroll the keyboard and farming for 250 lodestones for fashionwars 2.
And personally i'd take a dedicated few then the many who are just passing through. And one little caveat, i have no proof of this but in my experience dedicated players tend to buy stuff the game more often on a longer timespan, i believe HoT increased the life span of GW2 because it pulled alot of people from FF14 (and prolly other mmos but i can't speak on them) because HW launch was terribly balanced at launch i was one of those who returned to this game and was pleasantly surprised at the HoT maps, new fotm, and raids. And from what i see now there are far more people even now in HoT maps then PoF maps because after you do story where's all the fun and the loot and the group content?
Yep its in HoT.
Sorry i just had to get that out so many people on the forums hate on HoT
And to the topic, PoF expansion is success the only mistake i believe anet made is ruining the black lion chest with all these crappy god kitten raptors and a lack of new cosmetics for the new expansion gem and non gem.
Also remember new players come and go and casuals have no real foundation in the game, for example raiding guilds and wvw guilds the players there tend to have been around since core, they buy gems regularly (or don't if they have gotten everything that they have wanted). Casuals don't have that dedication to login everyday for 2-3years buy 50$ in gems on Black lion chests for a back pack or something. I appreciate your intention OP but your far from the actual scope of what makes an mmo successful

Speaking about people hating on HoT made me curious. The first incarnation of HoT was garbage for me, plain and simple.

Monsters packed a heavy punch, not too heavy for me personally, but after playing some hours it was pretty obvious that the average berserker dungeon stacker gamer would die in HoT against everything, not to speak about hero challenges with big baddies.

Unreasonable and unfunny minigames with the clear goal to stretch content for not getting yelled at immediately.

Rushed storyline. I guess a large potion of people would agree with me when I say that some stories had to be drastically shortened to keep the timeline.

Content drought. Not the fault of HoT, but there it started.*You need skills you can not have at start to get all the MP on the first map. Who thaught that over? That´s frustration all over the board waiting to happen.

Today, I would say HoT is okayish, but far from really good.

Anet basically made the gamers climb out of their Honda Civic and climb into a Ferrari. That this would not end well should not be that surprising, you can´t expect the average Joe to win the Indy car series over night. The real question is if your dedicated raiders can in raw numbers make up for the casuals. Yes, I guess raiders are more dedicated to the game, but I don´t see how someone who really knows how to play the game buys more gems than converting them. Dedication means time, and time means gold.And as we are speaking about dedication, I think you are right with wvw guilds who stayed beside virtually no help at all from Anet, but raiders? Why shoud someone who does things for the thrill of doing so stay in a game constantly that only releases a raid wing once a few months? Adrenaline obviously can´t be stored forever, you reach a farm status sooner or later if you are really trying.

The casual gamers market exploded some years ago, it is where the money sits today. Teenage girls whom I personally would not thrust my plants to wet, snot nosed kids who tell me how they made a driveby in GTA last night, silver gamers etc etc...

There are a few places where you cam get the data about sales and numbers of players, But since they are 3rd party finance tracking companies, that work for the industry, if you want access to their info it cost real money to access. About 8 years back, I used to have an account, and what I read was, I am sure, currently outdated, but, as it stood then, Casuals gamers were a gold mine, (hence the rise and explosion of F2P among larger MM's) as they not only will stay with a social game longer, (not directly MMO's but MMO's are a type of Social game) then hardcore players who will too often burn though content and move on. Casuals are also more willing to spend real money on what they want as opposed to grinding the game for it. This is also why you might hear that an average F2P gamer will spend roughly $23 a month on average, and gave rise to terms like 'Whales'. Now, honestly, who really has more real life money and incentive to spend on a game, someone who can invest a full time jobs level of hours a week into the game, or someone who has a full time job.

blambidy.3216 · October 11, 2017

As much as I would agree I wouldn't. The number of accounts could be active accounts or non active altogether which we don't know. Yes there are people who have multiple accounts. However there are not many people who have multiple accounts. Out of all the people in the game I know. Only one has multiple accounts. As for number of toons created not every account has fully made 5 toons. How? I know the same guy who has numerous characters. And another guy who's in double digits. But then again you won't know because it doesn't say everyone. Averages are never accurate. And will never be. All we can do is make assumptions. But will never go Into the ball park of the facts. As for how many people have POF from showing the griffon rate for veterans? No. I've played for almost 2 years. And have no got my griffon mount. Honestly I want it but I need things before I get it. I have all 4 mounts. I have hot. Finished it. And my guild leader just got the jackel mount last night. So to predict it off of vets isn't really accurate still. Me and guild leader are vets in the game. The guild leader is probably more casual then I am but we milk the game. The 100 k people who have the Griff already are ether the hardcore lore getting gold waaaaaay faster then us. Or new guys and buy the gold to get the griffon. Because honestly I just went through a gold fest. Make all my crafting to 500. And then I converted gold to gems for more bank since it's getting clunky. But to say allllllll. No. I would be like yea. But since we don't fully know who has, and hasn't bought the game we won't officially know.

Daffan.8924 · October 11, 2017

If Griffons ≥ 50000 then the game is healthy. Most casuals will never have the spare gold for one.

Sir Vincent III.1286 · October 11, 2017

@Cristalyan.5728 said:From the official ANet site I have the following numbers:
GW2 (as a whole game) has 11 000 000 (11 millions) players.
During the life of GW2 the players created over 53 056 000 (53,05 millions) characters.
The 11 millions characters formed 952 000 guilds (almost 1 million).
The +53 millions characters completed 430 773 344 hearts (430,77 milions)
This is not from ANet site - a friend saw this: The griffon number in game is now over 50 000.
What can I understand from this (almost commercial) announcement:
11 millions players ... I saw here on this forum a lot of ppl claiming they have more than one account - payed account. I saw the signature of one colleagues stating he has 30 accounts. That means is more accurate to say that the number of accounts is 11 millions. Players are less.
53 millions characters for 11 millions accounts means an average of almost 5 characters per account. Normal you can say. But, I saw here, on this forum, many, many players stating they have tens of characters (some having the maximum number of characters). Even I, a non character addicted, have 13 characters. That means a lot of accounts have less than 5 characters per account. By buying the game you can create 5 characters - this is free after buying the game. And still there are lot of accounts with less than 5. I can conclude from this that the degree of retaining new players is low if you don't play enough to need 5 characters (even for storage space if not for effectively playing)
430 773 344 hearts completed. This is IMPRESSIVE at the first look. But, only in core Tyria we have around 330 hearts. That means the core Tyria was completed by +1,3 millions characters. HM? 1,3 from 53 ? That means ~2,5% from all the characters completed the core Tyria. I also saw here, on the Forum a lot of persons claiming that they completed the map several times (some of them tens of times). I completed the map (all the maps, not only Tyria) 3 times. My conclusion: less than 1 million players completed a map discovery in Tyria. Comparing this with the total number of accounts .... that means ~9% of the players completed Tyria.
Almost 1 million guilds. We have 11 millions accounts, but less than 11 millions players playing the game during its lifetime. That means an average of 10 players per guild. HM. With HoT the tendency was to annihilate the small guilds in favor of the larger (meta) guilds. I think it is an interesting detail if ANet will give us the number of guilds founded after the HoT release.
Finally: +50 000 griffons. We know (from the more or less accurate data from GW2 efficiency) that HoT lost a lot of players in its 2 year existence. How many - hard to say. But the playerbase was smaller at the end of HoT that at the beginning. And from this smaller playerbase a part bought PoF. From the players with PoF, over 50 000 have the griffon.
Disclaimer: This is my estimation, based on my own observations. It may be inaccurate or entirely wrong. I will post it because it completes what I write:So, I consider that around 40-50% from the PoF players already have the griffon. Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. That means the majority of the PoF owners had the skills and the money to acquire the griffon. Only the time is a problem for some of them.So, this is the reason I considered this percentage. From this, my conclusion is that 100-120 000 players have PoF.
Conclusion: Starting from 11 millions accounts having the vanilla and ending with 0,1 millions owning PoF, it seems that GW2 is doing a very poor job to keep the veterans playing. I don't know if this is related only with the game - for me GW2 seems to be a very good MMO. Maybe the management of this game is a little bit ... wrong?
Please add other numbers if you find. Please correct me if you consider I'm wrong. And please post your own feelings about the numbers ANet listed on the site and based on this, about the future of the game.
Thanks for the patience to read all of this.

40%-50% sounds about right and it roughly matches this report.http://sirvincentiii.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/GW2_4Q16_Report.png

UnbentMars.9126 · October 11, 2017

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@Cristalyan.5728 said:From the official ANet site I have the following numbers:
GW2 (as a whole game) has 11 000 000 (11 millions) players.
During the life of GW2 the players created over 53 056 000 (53,05 millions) characters.
The 11 millions characters formed 952 000 guilds (almost 1 million).
The +53 millions characters completed 430 773 344 hearts (430,77 milions)
This is not from ANet site - a friend saw this: The griffon number in game is now over 50 000.
What can I understand from this (almost commercial) announcement:
11 millions players ... I saw here on this forum a lot of ppl claiming they have more than one account - payed account. I saw the signature of one colleagues stating he has 30 accounts. That means is more accurate to say that the number of
accounts
is 11 millions. Players are less.
53 millions characters for 11 millions accounts means an average of almost 5 characters per account. Normal you can say. But, I saw here, on this forum, many, many players stating they have tens of characters (some having the maximum number of characters). Even I, a non character addicted, have 13 characters. That means
a lot
of accounts have
less
than 5 characters per account. By buying the game you can create 5 characters - this is free after buying the game. And still there are lot of accounts with less than 5. I can conclude from this that the degree of retaining new players is
low
if you don't play enough to need 5 characters (even for storage space if not for effectively playing)
430 773 344 hearts completed. This is IMPRESSIVE at the first look. But, only in core Tyria we have around 330 hearts. That means the core Tyria was completed by +1,3 millions characters. HM? 1,3 from 53 ? That means ~2,5% from all the characters completed the core Tyria. I also saw here, on the Forum a lot of persons claiming that they completed the map several times (some of them
tens
of times). I completed the map (all the maps, not only Tyria) 3 times. My conclusion: less than 1 million players completed a map discovery in Tyria. Comparing this with the total number of accounts .... that means ~9% of the players completed Tyria.
Almost 1 million guilds. We have 11 millions accounts, but less than 11 millions players playing the game during its lifetime. That means an average of 10 players per guild. HM. With HoT the tendency was to annihilate the small guilds in favor of the larger (meta) guilds. I think it is an interesting detail if ANet will give us the number of guilds founded
after
the HoT release.
Finally: +50 000 griffons. We know (from the more or less accurate data from GW2 efficiency) that HoT lost a lot of players in its 2 year existence. How many - hard to say. But the playerbase was smaller at the end of HoT that at the beginning. And from this smaller playerbase a part bought PoF. From the players with PoF, over 50 000 have the griffon.
Disclaimer
: This is my estimation, based on my own observations. It may be inaccurate or entirely wrong. I will post it because it completes what I write:So, I consider that around 40-50% from the PoF players already have the griffon. Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. That means the majority of the PoF owners had the skills and the money to acquire the griffon. Only the time is a problem for some of them.So, this is the reason I considered this percentage. From this, my conclusion is that 100-120 000 players have PoF.
Conclusion: Starting from 11 millions accounts having the vanilla and ending with 0,1 millions owning PoF, it seems that GW2 is doing a very poor job to keep the veterans playing. I don't know if this is related only with the game - for me GW2 seems to be a very good MMO. Maybe the management of this game is a little bit ... wrong?
Please add other numbers if you find. Please correct me if you consider I'm wrong. And please post your own feelings about the numbers ANet listed on the site and based on this, about the future of the game.
Thanks for the patience to read all of this.

40%-50% sounds about right and it roughly matches this report.

http://sirvincentiii.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/GW2_4Q16_Report.png

It would be very helpful if there was any context for that image, as it stands there's not even a label on the Y axis...

Sir Vincent III.1286 · October 11, 2017

@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@Cristalyan.5728 said:From the official ANet site I have the following numbers:
GW2 (as a whole game) has 11 000 000 (11 millions) players.
During the life of GW2 the players created over 53 056 000 (53,05 millions) characters.
The 11 millions characters formed 952 000 guilds (almost 1 million).
The +53 millions characters completed 430 773 344 hearts (430,77 milions)
This is not from ANet site - a friend saw this: The griffon number in game is now over 50 000.
What can I understand from this (almost commercial) announcement:
11 millions players ... I saw here on this forum a lot of ppl claiming they have more than one account - payed account. I saw the signature of one colleagues stating he has 30 accounts. That means is more accurate to say that the number of
accounts
is 11 millions. Players are less.
53 millions characters for 11 millions accounts means an average of almost 5 characters per account. Normal you can say. But, I saw here, on this forum, many, many players stating they have tens of characters (some having the maximum number of characters). Even I, a non character addicted, have 13 characters. That means
a lot
of accounts have
less
than 5 characters per account. By buying the game you can create 5 characters - this is free after buying the game. And still there are lot of accounts with less than 5. I can conclude from this that the degree of retaining new players is
low
if you don't play enough to need 5 characters (even for storage space if not for effectively playing)
430 773 344 hearts completed. This is IMPRESSIVE at the first look. But, only in core Tyria we have around 330 hearts. That means the core Tyria was completed by +1,3 millions characters. HM? 1,3 from 53 ? That means ~2,5% from all the characters completed the core Tyria. I also saw here, on the Forum a lot of persons claiming that they completed the map several times (some of them
tens
of times). I completed the map (all the maps, not only Tyria) 3 times. My conclusion: less than 1 million players completed a map discovery in Tyria. Comparing this with the total number of accounts .... that means ~9% of the players completed Tyria.
Almost 1 million guilds. We have 11 millions accounts, but less than 11 millions players playing the game during its lifetime. That means an average of 10 players per guild. HM. With HoT the tendency was to annihilate the small guilds in favor of the larger (meta) guilds. I think it is an interesting detail if ANet will give us the number of guilds founded
after
the HoT release.
Finally: +50 000 griffons. We know (from the more or less accurate data from GW2 efficiency) that HoT lost a lot of players in its 2 year existence. How many - hard to say. But the playerbase was smaller at the end of HoT that at the beginning. And from this smaller playerbase a part bought PoF. From the players with PoF, over 50 000 have the griffon.
Disclaimer
: This is my estimation, based on my own observations. It may be inaccurate or entirely wrong. I will post it because it completes what I write:So, I consider that around 40-50% from the PoF players already have the griffon. Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. That means the majority of the PoF owners had the skills and the money to acquire the griffon. Only the time is a problem for some of them.So, this is the reason I considered this percentage. From this, my conclusion is that 100-120 000 players have PoF.
Conclusion: Starting from 11 millions accounts having the vanilla and ending with 0,1 millions owning PoF, it seems that GW2 is doing a very poor job to keep the veterans playing. I don't know if this is related only with the game - for me GW2 seems to be a very good MMO. Maybe the management of this game is a little bit ... wrong?
Please add other numbers if you find. Please correct me if you consider I'm wrong. And please post your own feelings about the numbers ANet listed on the site and based on this, about the future of the game.
Thanks for the patience to read all of this.

40%-50% sounds about right and it roughly matches this report.

http://sirvincentiii.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/GW2_4Q16_Report.png

It would be very helpful if there was any context for that image, as it stands there's not even a label on the Y axis...

http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

UnbentMars.9126 · October 11, 2017

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@Cristalyan.5728 said:From the official ANet site I have the following numbers:
GW2 (as a whole game) has 11 000 000 (11 millions) players.
During the life of GW2 the players created over 53 056 000 (53,05 millions) characters.
The 11 millions characters formed 952 000 guilds (almost 1 million).
The +53 millions characters completed 430 773 344 hearts (430,77 milions)
This is not from ANet site - a friend saw this: The griffon number in game is now over 50 000.
What can I understand from this (almost commercial) announcement:
11 millions players ... I saw here on this forum a lot of ppl claiming they have more than one account - payed account. I saw the signature of one colleagues stating he has 30 accounts. That means is more accurate to say that the number of
accounts
is 11 millions. Players are less.
53 millions characters for 11 millions accounts means an average of almost 5 characters per account. Normal you can say. But, I saw here, on this forum, many, many players stating they have tens of characters (some having the maximum number of characters). Even I, a non character addicted, have 13 characters. That means
a lot
of accounts have
less
than 5 characters per account. By buying the game you can create 5 characters - this is free after buying the game. And still there are lot of accounts with less than 5. I can conclude from this that the degree of retaining new players is
low
if you don't play enough to need 5 characters (even for storage space if not for effectively playing)
430 773 344 hearts completed. This is IMPRESSIVE at the first look. But, only in core Tyria we have around 330 hearts. That means the core Tyria was completed by +1,3 millions characters. HM? 1,3 from 53 ? That means ~2,5% from all the characters completed the core Tyria. I also saw here, on the Forum a lot of persons claiming that they completed the map several times (some of them
tens
of times). I completed the map (all the maps, not only Tyria) 3 times. My conclusion: less than 1 million players completed a map discovery in Tyria. Comparing this with the total number of accounts .... that means ~9% of the players completed Tyria.
Almost 1 million guilds. We have 11 millions accounts, but less than 11 millions players playing the game during its lifetime. That means an average of 10 players per guild. HM. With HoT the tendency was to annihilate the small guilds in favor of the larger (meta) guilds. I think it is an interesting detail if ANet will give us the number of guilds founded
after
the HoT release.
Finally: +50 000 griffons. We know (from the more or less accurate data from GW2 efficiency) that HoT lost a lot of players in its 2 year existence. How many - hard to say. But the playerbase was smaller at the end of HoT that at the beginning. And from this smaller playerbase a part bought PoF. From the players with PoF, over 50 000 have the griffon.
Disclaimer
: This is my estimation, based on my own observations. It may be inaccurate or entirely wrong. I will post it because it completes what I write:So, I consider that around 40-50% from the PoF players already have the griffon. Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. That means the majority of the PoF owners had the skills and the money to acquire the griffon. Only the time is a problem for some of them.So, this is the reason I considered this percentage. From this, my conclusion is that 100-120 000 players have PoF.
Conclusion: Starting from 11 millions accounts having the vanilla and ending with 0,1 millions owning PoF, it seems that GW2 is doing a very poor job to keep the veterans playing. I don't know if this is related only with the game - for me GW2 seems to be a very good MMO. Maybe the management of this game is a little bit ... wrong?
Please add other numbers if you find. Please correct me if you consider I'm wrong. And please post your own feelings about the numbers ANet listed on the site and based on this, about the future of the game.
Thanks for the patience to read all of this.

40%-50% sounds about right and it roughly matches this report.

http://sirvincentiii.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/GW2_4Q16_Report.png

It would be very helpful if there was any context for that image, as it stands there's not even a label on the Y axis...

http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

Thanks for the source, but earnings is not a descriptive metric of players especially given that PoF cost half of what HoT did and the addition of F2P means that many active players have never spent a dime on GW2.

For all that shows, we could have had a 500% increase in active players mostly in the F2P version of the game. Additionally, that report doesn't even show any profits from PoF since the pre-order wasn't even released until after the Q2 report.

Sir Vincent III.1286 · October 11, 2017

@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@Cristalyan.5728 said:From the official ANet site I have the following numbers:
GW2 (as a whole game) has 11 000 000 (11 millions) players.
During the life of GW2 the players created over 53 056 000 (53,05 millions) characters.
The 11 millions characters formed 952 000 guilds (almost 1 million).
The +53 millions characters completed 430 773 344 hearts (430,77 milions)
This is not from ANet site - a friend saw this: The griffon number in game is now over 50 000.
What can I understand from this (almost commercial) announcement:
11 millions players ... I saw here on this forum a lot of ppl claiming they have more than one account - payed account. I saw the signature of one colleagues stating he has 30 accounts. That means is more accurate to say that the number of
accounts
is 11 millions. Players are less.
53 millions characters for 11 millions accounts means an average of almost 5 characters per account. Normal you can say. But, I saw here, on this forum, many, many players stating they have tens of characters (some having the maximum number of characters). Even I, a non character addicted, have 13 characters. That means
a lot
of accounts have
less
than 5 characters per account. By buying the game you can create 5 characters - this is free after buying the game. And still there are lot of accounts with less than 5. I can conclude from this that the degree of retaining new players is
low
if you don't play enough to need 5 characters (even for storage space if not for effectively playing)
430 773 344 hearts completed. This is IMPRESSIVE at the first look. But, only in core Tyria we have around 330 hearts. That means the core Tyria was completed by +1,3 millions characters. HM? 1,3 from 53 ? That means ~2,5% from all the characters completed the core Tyria. I also saw here, on the Forum a lot of persons claiming that they completed the map several times (some of them
tens
of times). I completed the map (all the maps, not only Tyria) 3 times. My conclusion: less than 1 million players completed a map discovery in Tyria. Comparing this with the total number of accounts .... that means ~9% of the players completed Tyria.
Almost 1 million guilds. We have 11 millions accounts, but less than 11 millions players playing the game during its lifetime. That means an average of 10 players per guild. HM. With HoT the tendency was to annihilate the small guilds in favor of the larger (meta) guilds. I think it is an interesting detail if ANet will give us the number of guilds founded
after
the HoT release.
Finally: +50 000 griffons. We know (from the more or less accurate data from GW2 efficiency) that HoT lost a lot of players in its 2 year existence. How many - hard to say. But the playerbase was smaller at the end of HoT that at the beginning. And from this smaller playerbase a part bought PoF. From the players with PoF, over 50 000 have the griffon.
Disclaimer
: This is my estimation, based on my own observations. It may be inaccurate or entirely wrong. I will post it because it completes what I write:So, I consider that around 40-50% from the PoF players already have the griffon. Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. That means the majority of the PoF owners had the skills and the money to acquire the griffon. Only the time is a problem for some of them.So, this is the reason I considered this percentage. From this, my conclusion is that 100-120 000 players have PoF.
Conclusion: Starting from 11 millions accounts having the vanilla and ending with 0,1 millions owning PoF, it seems that GW2 is doing a very poor job to keep the veterans playing. I don't know if this is related only with the game - for me GW2 seems to be a very good MMO. Maybe the management of this game is a little bit ... wrong?
Please add other numbers if you find. Please correct me if you consider I'm wrong. And please post your own feelings about the numbers ANet listed on the site and based on this, about the future of the game.
Thanks for the patience to read all of this.

40%-50% sounds about right and it roughly matches this report.

http://sirvincentiii.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/GW2_4Q16_Report.png

It would be very helpful if there was any context for that image, as it stands there's not even a label on the Y axis...

http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

Thanks for the source, but earnings is not a descriptive metric of players especially given that PoF cost half of what HoT did and the addition of F2P means that many active players have never spent a dime on GW2.

For all that shows, we could have had a 500% increase in active players mostly in the F2P version of the game. Additionally, that report doesn't even show any profits from PoF since the pre-order wasn't even released until after the Q2 report.

My reply is specifically about this;

"Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. "

...which roughly matches the earnings. Meaning only 40%-50% of veterans are left making purchases.

EDIT: Also, the image I posted is from 4Q16 just to show how much it dipped since HoT.

EDIT 2: However, I think they'll see a bounce back with PoF.

UnbentMars.9126 · October 11, 2017

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@Cristalyan.5728 said:From the official ANet site I have the following numbers:
GW2 (as a whole game) has 11 000 000 (11 millions) players.
During the life of GW2 the players created over 53 056 000 (53,05 millions) characters.
The 11 millions characters formed 952 000 guilds (almost 1 million).
The +53 millions characters completed 430 773 344 hearts (430,77 milions)
This is not from ANet site - a friend saw this: The griffon number in game is now over 50 000.
What can I understand from this (almost commercial) announcement:
11 millions players ... I saw here on this forum a lot of ppl claiming they have more than one account - payed account. I saw the signature of one colleagues stating he has 30 accounts. That means is more accurate to say that the number of
accounts
is 11 millions. Players are less.
53 millions characters for 11 millions accounts means an average of almost 5 characters per account. Normal you can say. But, I saw here, on this forum, many, many players stating they have tens of characters (some having the maximum number of characters). Even I, a non character addicted, have 13 characters. That means
a lot
of accounts have
less
than 5 characters per account. By buying the game you can create 5 characters - this is free after buying the game. And still there are lot of accounts with less than 5. I can conclude from this that the degree of retaining new players is
low
if you don't play enough to need 5 characters (even for storage space if not for effectively playing)
430 773 344 hearts completed. This is IMPRESSIVE at the first look. But, only in core Tyria we have around 330 hearts. That means the core Tyria was completed by +1,3 millions characters. HM? 1,3 from 53 ? That means ~2,5% from all the characters completed the core Tyria. I also saw here, on the Forum a lot of persons claiming that they completed the map several times (some of them
tens
of times). I completed the map (all the maps, not only Tyria) 3 times. My conclusion: less than 1 million players completed a map discovery in Tyria. Comparing this with the total number of accounts .... that means ~9% of the players completed Tyria.
Almost 1 million guilds. We have 11 millions accounts, but less than 11 millions players playing the game during its lifetime. That means an average of 10 players per guild. HM. With HoT the tendency was to annihilate the small guilds in favor of the larger (meta) guilds. I think it is an interesting detail if ANet will give us the number of guilds founded
after
the HoT release.
Finally: +50 000 griffons. We know (from the more or less accurate data from GW2 efficiency) that HoT lost a lot of players in its 2 year existence. How many - hard to say. But the playerbase was smaller at the end of HoT that at the beginning. And from this smaller playerbase a part bought PoF. From the players with PoF, over 50 000 have the griffon.
Disclaimer
: This is my estimation, based on my own observations. It may be inaccurate or entirely wrong. I will post it because it completes what I write:So, I consider that around 40-50% from the PoF players already have the griffon. Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. That means the majority of the PoF owners had the skills and the money to acquire the griffon. Only the time is a problem for some of them.So, this is the reason I considered this percentage. From this, my conclusion is that 100-120 000 players have PoF.
Conclusion: Starting from 11 millions accounts having the vanilla and ending with 0,1 millions owning PoF, it seems that GW2 is doing a very poor job to keep the veterans playing. I don't know if this is related only with the game - for me GW2 seems to be a very good MMO. Maybe the management of this game is a little bit ... wrong?
Please add other numbers if you find. Please correct me if you consider I'm wrong. And please post your own feelings about the numbers ANet listed on the site and based on this, about the future of the game.
Thanks for the patience to read all of this.

40%-50% sounds about right and it roughly matches this report.

http://sirvincentiii.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/GW2_4Q16_Report.png

It would be very helpful if there was any context for that image, as it stands there's not even a label on the Y axis...

http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

Thanks for the source, but earnings is not a descriptive metric of players especially given that PoF cost half of what HoT did and the addition of F2P means that many active players have never spent a dime on GW2.

For all that shows, we could have had a 500% increase in active players mostly in the F2P version of the game. Additionally, that report doesn't even show any profits from PoF since the pre-order wasn't even released until after the Q2 report.

My reply is specifically about this;

"Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. "

...which roughly matches the earnings. Meaning only 40%-50% of veterans are left making purchases.

EDIT: Also, the image I posted is from 4Q16 just to show how much it dipped since HoT.

EDIT 2: However, I think they'll see a bounce back with PoF.

Again, if your statement is regarding OP's statement about #'s of people who bought PoF, the graph you provided shows absolutely nothing from PoF, so making a statement about PoF from that is nothing more than pure speculation.

Even if I were to concede that 40-50% of veterans are making purchases (which still makes a huge number of baseless assumptions given how many long-time veterans have never made a gemstore purchase with gems they bought with real money as opposed to gold), that still is not a good metric for measuring how many people are playing given that that's '40-50% of veterans playing during the final days of HoT rather than people who returned from hiatus for PoF or new-new players. That said, that 40-50% guess is still just that. A wild guess.

Sir Vincent III.1286 · October 11, 2017

@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@Cristalyan.5728 said:From the official ANet site I have the following numbers:
GW2 (as a whole game) has 11 000 000 (11 millions) players.
During the life of GW2 the players created over 53 056 000 (53,05 millions) characters.
The 11 millions characters formed 952 000 guilds (almost 1 million).
The +53 millions characters completed 430 773 344 hearts (430,77 milions)
This is not from ANet site - a friend saw this: The griffon number in game is now over 50 000.
What can I understand from this (almost commercial) announcement:
11 millions players ... I saw here on this forum a lot of ppl claiming they have more than one account - payed account. I saw the signature of one colleagues stating he has 30 accounts. That means is more accurate to say that the number of
accounts
is 11 millions. Players are less.
53 millions characters for 11 millions accounts means an average of almost 5 characters per account. Normal you can say. But, I saw here, on this forum, many, many players stating they have tens of characters (some having the maximum number of characters). Even I, a non character addicted, have 13 characters. That means
a lot
of accounts have
less
than 5 characters per account. By buying the game you can create 5 characters - this is free after buying the game. And still there are lot of accounts with less than 5. I can conclude from this that the degree of retaining new players is
low
if you don't play enough to need 5 characters (even for storage space if not for effectively playing)
430 773 344 hearts completed. This is IMPRESSIVE at the first look. But, only in core Tyria we have around 330 hearts. That means the core Tyria was completed by +1,3 millions characters. HM? 1,3 from 53 ? That means ~2,5% from all the characters completed the core Tyria. I also saw here, on the Forum a lot of persons claiming that they completed the map several times (some of them
tens
of times). I completed the map (all the maps, not only Tyria) 3 times. My conclusion: less than 1 million players completed a map discovery in Tyria. Comparing this with the total number of accounts .... that means ~9% of the players completed Tyria.
Almost 1 million guilds. We have 11 millions accounts, but less than 11 millions players playing the game during its lifetime. That means an average of 10 players per guild. HM. With HoT the tendency was to annihilate the small guilds in favor of the larger (meta) guilds. I think it is an interesting detail if ANet will give us the number of guilds founded
after
the HoT release.
Finally: +50 000 griffons. We know (from the more or less accurate data from GW2 efficiency) that HoT lost a lot of players in its 2 year existence. How many - hard to say. But the playerbase was smaller at the end of HoT that at the beginning. And from this smaller playerbase a part bought PoF. From the players with PoF, over 50 000 have the griffon.
Disclaimer
: This is my estimation, based on my own observations. It may be inaccurate or entirely wrong. I will post it because it completes what I write:So, I consider that around 40-50% from the PoF players already have the griffon. Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. That means the majority of the PoF owners had the skills and the money to acquire the griffon. Only the time is a problem for some of them.So, this is the reason I considered this percentage. From this, my conclusion is that 100-120 000 players have PoF.
Conclusion: Starting from 11 millions accounts having the vanilla and ending with 0,1 millions owning PoF, it seems that GW2 is doing a very poor job to keep the veterans playing. I don't know if this is related only with the game - for me GW2 seems to be a very good MMO. Maybe the management of this game is a little bit ... wrong?
Please add other numbers if you find. Please correct me if you consider I'm wrong. And please post your own feelings about the numbers ANet listed on the site and based on this, about the future of the game.
Thanks for the patience to read all of this.

40%-50% sounds about right and it roughly matches this report.

http://sirvincentiii.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/GW2_4Q16_Report.png

It would be very helpful if there was any context for that image, as it stands there's not even a label on the Y axis...

http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

Thanks for the source, but earnings is not a descriptive metric of players especially given that PoF cost half of what HoT did and the addition of F2P means that many active players have never spent a dime on GW2.

For all that shows, we could have had a 500% increase in active players mostly in the F2P version of the game. Additionally, that report doesn't even show any profits from PoF since the pre-order wasn't even released until after the Q2 report.

My reply is specifically about this;

"Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. "

...which roughly matches the earnings. Meaning only 40%-50% of veterans are left making purchases.

EDIT: Also, the image I posted is from 4Q16 just to show how much it dipped since HoT.

EDIT 2: However, I think they'll see a bounce back with PoF.

Again, if your statement is regarding OP's statement about #'s of people who bought PoF, the graph you provided shows absolutely nothing from PoF, so making a statement about PoF from that is nothing more than pure speculation.

Even if I were to concede that 40-50% of veterans are making purchases (which still makes a huge number of baseless assumptions given how many long-time veterans have never made a gemstore purchase with gems they bought with real money as opposed to gold), that still is not a good metric for measuring how many people are playing given that that's '40-50% of veterans playing during the

final

days of HoT rather than people who returned from hiatus for PoF or new-new players. That said, that 40-50% guess is still just that. A wild guess.

Yes, it's a guess, but an educated one. A guess that matches the earnings report. You can then come to whatever conclusion you want with it.

UnbentMars.9126 · October 11, 2017

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@Cristalyan.5728 said:From the official ANet site I have the following numbers:
GW2 (as a whole game) has 11 000 000 (11 millions) players.
During the life of GW2 the players created over 53 056 000 (53,05 millions) characters.
The 11 millions characters formed 952 000 guilds (almost 1 million).
The +53 millions characters completed 430 773 344 hearts (430,77 milions)
This is not from ANet site - a friend saw this: The griffon number in game is now over 50 000.
What can I understand from this (almost commercial) announcement:
11 millions players ... I saw here on this forum a lot of ppl claiming they have more than one account - payed account. I saw the signature of one colleagues stating he has 30 accounts. That means is more accurate to say that the number of
accounts
is 11 millions. Players are less.
53 millions characters for 11 millions accounts means an average of almost 5 characters per account. Normal you can say. But, I saw here, on this forum, many, many players stating they have tens of characters (some having the maximum number of characters). Even I, a non character addicted, have 13 characters. That means
a lot
of accounts have
less
than 5 characters per account. By buying the game you can create 5 characters - this is free after buying the game. And still there are lot of accounts with less than 5. I can conclude from this that the degree of retaining new players is
low
if you don't play enough to need 5 characters (even for storage space if not for effectively playing)
430 773 344 hearts completed. This is IMPRESSIVE at the first look. But, only in core Tyria we have around 330 hearts. That means the core Tyria was completed by +1,3 millions characters. HM? 1,3 from 53 ? That means ~2,5% from all the characters completed the core Tyria. I also saw here, on the Forum a lot of persons claiming that they completed the map several times (some of them
tens
of times). I completed the map (all the maps, not only Tyria) 3 times. My conclusion: less than 1 million players completed a map discovery in Tyria. Comparing this with the total number of accounts .... that means ~9% of the players completed Tyria.
Almost 1 million guilds. We have 11 millions accounts, but less than 11 millions players playing the game during its lifetime. That means an average of 10 players per guild. HM. With HoT the tendency was to annihilate the small guilds in favor of the larger (meta) guilds. I think it is an interesting detail if ANet will give us the number of guilds founded
after
the HoT release.
Finally: +50 000 griffons. We know (from the more or less accurate data from GW2 efficiency) that HoT lost a lot of players in its 2 year existence. How many - hard to say. But the playerbase was smaller at the end of HoT that at the beginning. And from this smaller playerbase a part bought PoF. From the players with PoF, over 50 000 have the griffon.
Disclaimer
: This is my estimation, based on my own observations. It may be inaccurate or entirely wrong. I will post it because it completes what I write:So, I consider that around 40-50% from the PoF players already have the griffon. Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. That means the majority of the PoF owners had the skills and the money to acquire the griffon. Only the time is a problem for some of them.So, this is the reason I considered this percentage. From this, my conclusion is that 100-120 000 players have PoF.
Conclusion: Starting from 11 millions accounts having the vanilla and ending with 0,1 millions owning PoF, it seems that GW2 is doing a very poor job to keep the veterans playing. I don't know if this is related only with the game - for me GW2 seems to be a very good MMO. Maybe the management of this game is a little bit ... wrong?
Please add other numbers if you find. Please correct me if you consider I'm wrong. And please post your own feelings about the numbers ANet listed on the site and based on this, about the future of the game.
Thanks for the patience to read all of this.

40%-50% sounds about right and it roughly matches this report.

http://sirvincentiii.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/GW2_4Q16_Report.png

It would be very helpful if there was any context for that image, as it stands there's not even a label on the Y axis...

http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

Thanks for the source, but earnings is not a descriptive metric of players especially given that PoF cost half of what HoT did and the addition of F2P means that many active players have never spent a dime on GW2.

For all that shows, we could have had a 500% increase in active players mostly in the F2P version of the game. Additionally, that report doesn't even show any profits from PoF since the pre-order wasn't even released until after the Q2 report.

My reply is specifically about this;

"Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. "

...which roughly matches the earnings. Meaning only 40%-50% of veterans are left making purchases.

EDIT: Also, the image I posted is from 4Q16 just to show how much it dipped since HoT.

EDIT 2: However, I think they'll see a bounce back with PoF.

Again, if your statement is regarding OP's statement about #'s of people who bought PoF, the graph you provided shows absolutely nothing from PoF, so making a statement about PoF from that is nothing more than pure speculation.

Even if I were to concede that 40-50% of veterans are making purchases (which still makes a huge number of baseless assumptions given how many long-time veterans have never made a gemstore purchase with gems they bought with real money as opposed to gold), that still is not a good metric for measuring how many people are playing given that that's '40-50% of veterans playing during the

final

days of HoT rather than people who returned from hiatus for PoF or new-new players. That said, that 40-50% guess is still just that. A wild guess.

Yes, it's a guess, but an educated one. A guess that matches the earnings report. You can then come to whatever conclusion you want with it.

It's not an educated guess if the 'data' you are pulling is almost entirely unrelated or unrealistic as I have explained above. Using that data and your definition, I could come to the 'educated guess' that 11 million individual people play guild wars every single day and have spent an average of 1.5 Chinese Won per quarter. Just because you can make a guess doesn't mean its based in any sort of realism.

Haishao.6851 · October 11, 2017

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@Cristalyan.5728 said:From the official ANet site I have the following numbers:
GW2 (as a whole game) has 11 000 000 (11 millions) players.
During the life of GW2 the players created over 53 056 000 (53,05 millions) characters.
The 11 millions characters formed 952 000 guilds (almost 1 million).
The +53 millions characters completed 430 773 344 hearts (430,77 milions)
This is not from ANet site - a friend saw this: The griffon number in game is now over 50 000.
What can I understand from this (almost commercial) announcement:
11 millions players ... I saw here on this forum a lot of ppl claiming they have more than one account - payed account. I saw the signature of one colleagues stating he has 30 accounts. That means is more accurate to say that the number of
accounts
is 11 millions. Players are less.
53 millions characters for 11 millions accounts means an average of almost 5 characters per account. Normal you can say. But, I saw here, on this forum, many, many players stating they have tens of characters (some having the maximum number of characters). Even I, a non character addicted, have 13 characters. That means
a lot
of accounts have
less
than 5 characters per account. By buying the game you can create 5 characters - this is free after buying the game. And still there are lot of accounts with less than 5. I can conclude from this that the degree of retaining new players is
low
if you don't play enough to need 5 characters (even for storage space if not for effectively playing)
430 773 344 hearts completed. This is IMPRESSIVE at the first look. But, only in core Tyria we have around 330 hearts. That means the core Tyria was completed by +1,3 millions characters. HM? 1,3 from 53 ? That means ~2,5% from all the characters completed the core Tyria. I also saw here, on the Forum a lot of persons claiming that they completed the map several times (some of them
tens
of times). I completed the map (all the maps, not only Tyria) 3 times. My conclusion: less than 1 million players completed a map discovery in Tyria. Comparing this with the total number of accounts .... that means ~9% of the players completed Tyria.
Almost 1 million guilds. We have 11 millions accounts, but less than 11 millions players playing the game during its lifetime. That means an average of 10 players per guild. HM. With HoT the tendency was to annihilate the small guilds in favor of the larger (meta) guilds. I think it is an interesting detail if ANet will give us the number of guilds founded
after
the HoT release.
Finally: +50 000 griffons. We know (from the more or less accurate data from GW2 efficiency) that HoT lost a lot of players in its 2 year existence. How many - hard to say. But the playerbase was smaller at the end of HoT that at the beginning. And from this smaller playerbase a part bought PoF. From the players with PoF, over 50 000 have the griffon.
Disclaimer
: This is my estimation, based on my own observations. It may be inaccurate or entirely wrong. I will post it because it completes what I write:So, I consider that around 40-50% from the PoF players already have the griffon. Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. That means the majority of the PoF owners had the skills and the money to acquire the griffon. Only the time is a problem for some of them.So, this is the reason I considered this percentage. From this, my conclusion is that 100-120 000 players have PoF.
Conclusion: Starting from 11 millions accounts having the vanilla and ending with 0,1 millions owning PoF, it seems that GW2 is doing a very poor job to keep the veterans playing. I don't know if this is related only with the game - for me GW2 seems to be a very good MMO. Maybe the management of this game is a little bit ... wrong?
Please add other numbers if you find. Please correct me if you consider I'm wrong. And please post your own feelings about the numbers ANet listed on the site and based on this, about the future of the game.
Thanks for the patience to read all of this.

40%-50% sounds about right and it roughly matches this report.

http://sirvincentiii.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/GW2_4Q16_Report.png

It would be very helpful if there was any context for that image, as it stands there's not even a label on the Y axis...

http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

Thanks for the source, but earnings is not a descriptive metric of players especially given that PoF cost half of what HoT did and the addition of F2P means that many active players have never spent a dime on GW2.

For all that shows, we could have had a 500% increase in active players mostly in the F2P version of the game. Additionally, that report doesn't even show any profits from PoF since the pre-order wasn't even released until after the Q2 report.

My reply is specifically about this;

"Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. "

...which roughly matches the earnings. Meaning only 40%-50% of veterans are left making purchases.

EDIT: Also, the image I posted is from 4Q16 just to show how much it dipped since HoT.

EDIT 2: However, I think they'll see a bounce back with PoF.

They'll bounce up because of PoF and go back down after a few months like it did with HoT https://i.imgur.com/A0nATvj.pngAnd like it did after launch https://i.imgur.com/shRWe7z.png

Sir Vincent III.1286 · October 11, 2017

@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@UnbentMars.9126 said:
@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
@Cristalyan.5728 said:From the official ANet site I have the following numbers:
GW2 (as a whole game) has 11 000 000 (11 millions) players.
During the life of GW2 the players created over 53 056 000 (53,05 millions) characters.
The 11 millions characters formed 952 000 guilds (almost 1 million).
The +53 millions characters completed 430 773 344 hearts (430,77 milions)
This is not from ANet site - a friend saw this: The griffon number in game is now over 50 000.
What can I understand from this (almost commercial) announcement:
11 millions players ... I saw here on this forum a lot of ppl claiming they have more than one account - payed account. I saw the signature of one colleagues stating he has 30 accounts. That means is more accurate to say that the number of
accounts
is 11 millions. Players are less.
53 millions characters for 11 millions accounts means an average of almost 5 characters per account. Normal you can say. But, I saw here, on this forum, many, many players stating they have tens of characters (some having the maximum number of characters). Even I, a non character addicted, have 13 characters. That means
a lot
of accounts have
less
than 5 characters per account. By buying the game you can create 5 characters - this is free after buying the game. And still there are lot of accounts with less than 5. I can conclude from this that the degree of retaining new players is
low
if you don't play enough to need 5 characters (even for storage space if not for effectively playing)
430 773 344 hearts completed. This is IMPRESSIVE at the first look. But, only in core Tyria we have around 330 hearts. That means the core Tyria was completed by +1,3 millions characters. HM? 1,3 from 53 ? That means ~2,5% from all the characters completed the core Tyria. I also saw here, on the Forum a lot of persons claiming that they completed the map several times (some of them
tens
of times). I completed the map (all the maps, not only Tyria) 3 times. My conclusion: less than 1 million players completed a map discovery in Tyria. Comparing this with the total number of accounts .... that means ~9% of the players completed Tyria.
Almost 1 million guilds. We have 11 millions accounts, but less than 11 millions players playing the game during its lifetime. That means an average of 10 players per guild. HM. With HoT the tendency was to annihilate the small guilds in favor of the larger (meta) guilds. I think it is an interesting detail if ANet will give us the number of guilds founded
after
the HoT release.
Finally: +50 000 griffons. We know (from the more or less accurate data from GW2 efficiency) that HoT lost a lot of players in its 2 year existence. How many - hard to say. But the playerbase was smaller at the end of HoT that at the beginning. And from this smaller playerbase a part bought PoF. From the players with PoF, over 50 000 have the griffon.
Disclaimer
: This is my estimation, based on my own observations. It may be inaccurate or entirely wrong. I will post it because it completes what I write:So, I consider that around 40-50% from the PoF players already have the griffon. Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. That means the majority of the PoF owners had the skills and the money to acquire the griffon. Only the time is a problem for some of them.So, this is the reason I considered this percentage. From this, my conclusion is that 100-120 000 players have PoF.
Conclusion: Starting from 11 millions accounts having the vanilla and ending with 0,1 millions owning PoF, it seems that GW2 is doing a very poor job to keep the veterans playing. I don't know if this is related only with the game - for me GW2 seems to be a very good MMO. Maybe the management of this game is a little bit ... wrong?
Please add other numbers if you find. Please correct me if you consider I'm wrong. And please post your own feelings about the numbers ANet listed on the site and based on this, about the future of the game.
Thanks for the patience to read all of this.

40%-50% sounds about right and it roughly matches this report.

http://sirvincentiii.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/GW2_4Q16_Report.png

It would be very helpful if there was any context for that image, as it stands there's not even a label on the Y axis...

http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

Thanks for the source, but earnings is not a descriptive metric of players especially given that PoF cost half of what HoT did and the addition of F2P means that many active players have never spent a dime on GW2.

For all that shows, we could have had a 500% increase in active players mostly in the F2P version of the game. Additionally, that report doesn't even show any profits from PoF since the pre-order wasn't even released until after the Q2 report.

My reply is specifically about this;

"Why 40-50%? Because in my opinion the percentage of "veteran" players who bought PoF is greater than the percentage of new starters who bought PoF. "

...which roughly matches the earnings. Meaning only 40%-50% of veterans are left making purchases.

EDIT: Also, the image I posted is from 4Q16 just to show how much it dipped since HoT.

EDIT 2: However, I think they'll see a bounce back with PoF.

Again, if your statement is regarding OP's statement about #'s of people who bought PoF, the graph you provided shows absolutely nothing from PoF, so making a statement about PoF from that is nothing more than pure speculation.

Even if I were to concede that 40-50% of veterans are making purchases (which still makes a huge number of baseless assumptions given how many long-time veterans have never made a gemstore purchase with gems they bought with real money as opposed to gold), that still is not a good metric for measuring how many people are playing given that that's '40-50% of veterans playing during the

final

days of HoT rather than people who returned from hiatus for PoF or new-new players. That said, that 40-50% guess is still just that. A wild guess.

Yes, it's a guess, but an educated one. A guess that matches the earnings report. You can then come to whatever conclusion you want with it.

It's not an educated guess if the 'data' you are pulling is almost entirely unrelated or unrealistic as I have explained above. Using that data and your definition, I could come to the 'educated guess' that 11 million individual people play guild wars every single day and have spent an average of 1.5 Chinese Won per quarter. Just because you

can

make a guess doesn't mean its based in any sort of realism.

guessverb

estimate or suppose (something) without sufficient information to be sure of being correct.

ANet numbers regarding GW2. Discussion.

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