Two years since i quit and nothing have changed

[silent killer.5732]

How the developers sees the meta in all games ? Do they really want everyone to play certain classes and not play certain classes !

Why cant you make it possible to have meta for all classes like. It has to be a meta where for example the engineer can fit in and us necros can fit other meta.

We paid just like the other players who plays their favorite class. Its pure racism nothing else. Or else how can the developers nerfed the only skill the necro can run to have a slight hope of having a party that will accept him to play with.

Yesterday i run with two thieves and one renegade and one guardian as the so called condi scourge which is supposedly the best meta build for the necromancer aside from the power reaper.

Dude i swear to god they were clearing the fractals as if im having deadly lag. I blink all the mobs were dead. I blink again they open the gate in swampland. By the time i run to them they already finished killing the boss at whatever fractal we were doing.

I dont want anything bad to happen for any class. But dude make us relevant at least.(Dont say play other class because im playing this game solely because thats not a solution we want equal treatment, you choose your favorite class which happened to be the devs favorite child and never felt the need to switch because of irrelevancy).

[silent killer.5732]

I dare any one who’s working in arena net to play as necro and try to join cm party at the reset time.

Its only words everyone can say like: necros is valuable in fractals rn or the mobs are weak in fractals so its forgiving to have necro in a party.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

The developers do not determine the meta.

For fractals, due to many trash mobs as well as bosses that tend to have invulnerability phases and the like, power damage is preferred and more optimal. It appears your group had no issue with you running Condi Scourge though, and you're free to run whatever you wish within the mutual agreement/ acceptance of a party, but a group knowing what to bring and what works best for their environment isn't a design issue.

Nothing stopped you from going Power Reaper in this situation; it just seemed like your preference not to. And there's no harm in that. Deflecting blame towards the developers in this instance, however, is erroneous.

I hope this clears up things for you.

Heck, even I run substandard stuff all the time for the sake of mixing things up or to accommodate for a group's shortcomings, but they wont ever be as good as an entire group who've put together optimal synergy.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I don't think these are problems with the game, in fact Necros have a strong place in both PvE and WvW. The issue seems to be that you're expecting things that your class wasn't particularly built for,, and getting disappointed about it.

Regarding Fractals, pure condi builds here aren't optimal, for example Carrion+Rabid, Rampager or Viper (optimal) is better than Dire or Trailblazer. The reason for this is you need to contribute some Power damage in alot of your attacks, because unless your group is small there's not enough time to build up many conditions. Condition builds work best when you have 2-3 players but not when you have 4-5.

Condi is most effective in slow fights, Power is most effective in quick fights.

Second, there's enough room for two builds on every character, and you should have two builds set up at all times. This is a bit expensive in Fractals because of AR; if you can't manage to have enough AR on two builds, run lower tier Fractals until you can purchase more Ascended armor from BLING. You aren't losing much rewards and its better to be fully outfitted when you reach T4.

For Necro, the best builds to take would be hybrid Reaper or Scourge for small groups, and Power Reaper for full parties. You can even play Mercy Scourge and be accepted into most parties as long as you have some damage.

I don't know why you say people won't accept Necro, people only tend to discriminate for T4 Fractal CMs and raids. For ordinary T4 runs or other content such as lower-tier Fractals or dungeons or even Strike Missions, Necro is usually more than welcome, especially as they provide a safety barrier in the harder encounters--if the entire party wipes to an attack, usually the Necro will survive due to Shroud and revive everyone with F4, which is something that only they can do.

[Antycypator.9874]

Few days ago I decided to "check" necro again (third time) but honestly I don't know what's the purpose of this class. Literally everything is better. There are other professions that can use the same utility skills but without actually hurting/bleeding/tormenting/crippling/blinding etc. themselves. Everything is faster, has better burst — exept reaper. Power reaper is the only legit dps for necro. Condi scourge is a joke. Why would you play something that hardly can go higher than 5k dps (solo) + it takes literally forever to reach that.Even Epidemic is pretty useless in solo play. Every skill has very animation (3/4 - 1s long).

I remember when condi scourge was meta in fractals. Well... 5x necro runs were fun, but meta has changed. No need to play condi, because it's all about doing freaking 70k dps in first 5 seconds.

[Xenic.1387]

stupid question, but is power scourge viable? I honestly don't know. I haven't done enough fractals recently to say if it is or not. I know that it's very strong in wvw (yes I know thats different) so I'm wondering if you can tweak the build to work in PVE?

[Methuselah.4376]

@Xenic.1387 said:stupid question, but is power scourge viable? I honestly don't know. I haven't done enough fractals recently to say if it is or not. I know that it's very strong in wvw (yes I know thats different) so I'm wondering if you can tweak the build to work in PVE?

Nope. I tested it out on Golem. Trash dps, more so than condi.

[silent killer.5732]

@Hannelore.8153 said:I don't think these are problems with the game, in fact Necros have a strong place in both PvE and WvW. The issue seems to be that you're expecting things that your class wasn't particularly built for,, and getting disappointed about it.

Regarding Fractals, pure condi builds here aren't optimal, for example Carrion+Rabid, Rampager or Viper (optimal) is better than Dire or Trailblazer. The reason for this is you need to contribute some Power damage in alot of your attacks, because unless your group is small there's not enough time to build up many conditions. Condition builds work best when you have 2-3 players but not when you have 4-5.

Condi is most effective in slow fights, Power is most effective in quick fights.

Second, there's enough room for two builds on every character, and you should have two builds set up at all times. This is a bit expensive in Fractals because of AR; if you can't manage to have enough AR on two builds, run lower tier Fractals until you can purchase more Ascended armor from BLING. You aren't losing much rewards and its better to be fully outfitted when you reach T4.

For Necro, the best builds to take would be hybrid Reaper or Scourge for small groups, and Power Reaper for full parties. You can even play Mercy Scourge and be accepted into most parties as long as you have some damage.

I don't know why you say people won't accept Necro, people only tend to discriminate for T4 Fractal CMs and raids. For ordinary T4 runs or other content such as lower-tier Fractals or dungeons or even Strike Missions, Necro is usually more than welcome, especially as they provide a safety barrier in the harder encounters--if the entire party wipes to an attack, usually the Necro will survive due to Shroud and revive everyone with F4, which is something that only they can do.

Basically you are agreeing with every single word I said.

Im talking about fitting in the cm parties. Why necros can’t fits in ?It’s because necro can’t provide anything close to any other meta classes

You said we can do all fractals and dungeons and strikes but raids and CMs! I got it and I pointed it out already where I said i ran withCertain classes and I find out that i was clearly outclassed by miles.

The other dude said nobody holding me from playing power reaper. It’s laughable answer..Theres no build the necro can run that will make him valuable in any cm party

To you all i was and still talking about playing at the highest level I don’t talk about playing in ordinary level with mediocre players.

Those people always assuming that whoever is talking about things that’s not right always means the problem is with the one who’s pointing out the things.

Who told y’all i don’t have second ascended armors.

There’s clearly problem with this class and gap that cannot be closed by playing different builds.

[silent killer.5732]

@Xenic.1387 said:stupid question, but is power scourge viable? I honestly don't know. I haven't done enough fractals recently to say if it is or not. I know that it's very strong in wvw (yes I know thats different) so I'm wondering if you can tweak the build to work in PVE?

Saying stupid question while not playing fractals is plain stupidity.Do the adjustments and purchase the needed ar and see for yourself how piece of shiit the necro is at the highest level

You cant be a healerYou cant be a dps juggernautYou cant run condi because it’s slower than any low tier power dps.

So good luck trying to compete.

[silent killer.5732]

@"Antycypator.9874" said:Few days ago I decided to "check" necro again (third time) but honestly I don't know what's the purpose of this class. Literally everything is better. There are other professions that can use the same utility skills but without actually hurting/bleeding/tormenting/crippling/blinding etc. themselves. Everything is faster, has better burst — exept reaper. Power reaper is the only legit dps for necro. Condi scourge is a joke. Why would you play something that hardly can go higher than 5k dps (solo) + it takes literally forever to reach that.Even Epidemic is pretty useless in solo play. Every skill has very animation (3/4 - 1s long).

I remember when condi scourge was meta in fractals. Well... 5x necro runs were fun, but meta has changed. No need to play condi, because it's all about doing freaking 70k dps in first 5 seconds.

ExactlyNow i was asking the developers to answer why this treatmentIf all that wasn’t enough heres the thing.

Two years ago i was fooling myself by believing that the best usual way to make the necro valuable is to run some strips treatments

Nowadays most of the bosses doesn’t rely on boons lol what a jock this is

[Dreamreaver.4908]

@silent killer.5732 said:

Basically you are agreeing with every single word I said.

Im talking about fitting in the cm parties. Why necros can’t fits in ?It’s because necro can’t provide anything close to any other meta classes

You said we can do all fractals and dungeons and strikes but raids and CMs! I got it and I pointed it out already where I said i ran withCertain classes and I find out that i was clearly outclassed by miles.

The other dude said nobody holding me from playing power reaper. It’s laughable answer..Theres no build the necro can run that will make him valuable in any cm party

To you all i was and still talking about playing at the highest level I don’t talk about playing in ordinary level with mediocre players.

Those people always assuming that whoever is talking about things that’s not right always means the problem is with the one who’s pointing out the things.

Who told y’all i don’t have second ascended armors.

There’s clearly problem with this class and gap that cannot be closed by playing different builds.

Now, I'm not in the business of insulting people over their online opinions. Frankly, I find it to be a waste of energy, and I've grown out of it pretty much.

But did you not imply that you were using a Condi Scourge build in Swampland? Myself and @Hannelore.8153 told you why that wasn't effective, and you are already aware of a better alternative.

This is a game where everything can do everything (except alacrity) where design makes them more befitting or less befitting based on any number of factors. Sure, Reaper brings lower DPS, although decent burst, at higher levels; but it's offset by its exceptional reliability. You have to TRY to mess its rotation up, and even when things go south, it is by default one of the more sturdy professions in the game. Is it the most effective tactic available? No. But it certainly gets the job done as a DPS role, and many groups are accepting of it outside of speedrunners and jack asses enslaved to the dictation of the highest numbers achieved on a website.

Now if you're still wanting to just hear from a developer, an email is the way to do it. Posting on the public forum will only draw public ire.

[silent killer.5732]

@KidRoleplay.3615 said:

@silent killer.5732 said:

Basically you are agreeing with every single word I said.

Im talking about fitting in the cm parties. Why necros can’t fits in ?It’s because necro can’t provide anything close to any other meta classes

You said we can do all fractals and dungeons and strikes but raids and CMs! I got it and I pointed it out already where I said i ran withCertain classes and I find out that i was clearly outclassed by miles.

The other dude said nobody holding me from playing power reaper. It’s laughable answer..Theres no build the necro can run that will make him valuable in any cm party

To you all i was and still talking about playing at the highest level I don’t talk about playing in ordinary level with mediocre players.

Those people always assuming that whoever is talking about things that’s not right always means the problem is with the one who’s pointing out the things.

Who told y’all i don’t have second ascended armors.

There’s clearly problem with this class and gap that cannot be closed by playing different builds.

Now, I'm not in the business of insulting people over their online opinions. Frankly, I find it to be a waste of energy, and I've grown out of it pretty much.

But did you not imply that you were using a Condi Scourge build in Swampland? Myself and @Hannelore.8153 told you why that wasn't effective, and you are already aware of a better alternative.

This is a game where everything can do everything (except alacrity) where design makes them more befitting or less befitting based on any number of factors. Sure, Reaper brings lower DPS, although decent burst, at higher levels; but it's offset by its exceptional reliability. You have to TRY to mess its rotation up, and even when things go south, it is by default one of the more sturdy professions in the game. Is it the most effective tactic available? No. But it certainly gets the job done as a DPS role, and many groups are accepting of it outside of speedrunners and jack kitten enslaved to the dictation of the highest numbers achieved on a website.

Now if you're still wanting to just hear from a developer, an email is the way to do it. Posting on the public forum will only draw public ire.

Whatever you said.Anyways I have multiple builds but as you know and everyone else knowsNone of these builds stand any chance. Why can’t you just accept this fact I don’t understandNecro is piece of hot garbage in fractals and literally the necromancer doesn’t have a single aspect where they can be used over any class that share the same mechanism with.

I respect your opinion and as I said before I don’t want any class to get nerfed (im talking about mesmers,guardians,thieves,warriors)All I wanted is to have similar meta shiit that necro can not only be accepted but to be a key with some kind of rule.

Is that too much to ask?

If I showed you how many messages I have between me and the devs and how many times they banned me you will be in shockI quit before for that reason and i thought things have changed after two good yearsBut it’s worse than before. At least we had our (single skill that made us kind of valuable in epidemic)Now it’s straight up hot garbage

[Dreamreaver.4908]

@silent killer.5732 said:

@KidRoleplay.3615 said:

@silent killer.5732 said:

Basically you are agreeing with every single word I said.

Im talking about fitting in the cm parties. Why necros can’t fits in ?It’s because necro can’t provide anything close to any other meta classes

You said we can do all fractals and dungeons and strikes but raids and CMs! I got it and I pointed it out already where I said i ran withCertain classes and I find out that i was clearly outclassed by miles.

The other dude said nobody holding me from playing power reaper. It’s laughable answer..Theres no build the necro can run that will make him valuable in any cm party

To you all i was and still talking about playing at the highest level I don’t talk about playing in ordinary level with mediocre players.

Those people always assuming that whoever is talking about things that’s not right always means the problem is with the one who’s pointing out the things.

Who told y’all i don’t have second ascended armors.

There’s clearly problem with this class and gap that cannot be closed by playing different builds.

Now, I'm not in the business of insulting people over their online opinions. Frankly, I find it to be a waste of energy, and I've grown out of it pretty much.

But did you not imply that you were using a Condi Scourge build in Swampland? Myself and @Hannelore.8153 told you why that wasn't effective, and you are already aware of a better alternative.

This is a game where everything can do everything (except alacrity) where design makes them more befitting or less befitting based on any number of factors. Sure, Reaper brings lower DPS, although decent burst, at higher levels; but it's offset by its exceptional reliability. You have to TRY to mess its rotation up, and even when things go south, it is by default one of the more sturdy professions in the game. Is it the most effective tactic available? No. But it certainly gets the job done as a DPS role, and many groups are accepting of it outside of speedrunners and jack kitten enslaved to the dictation of the highest numbers achieved on a website.

Now if you're still wanting to just hear from a developer, an email is the way to do it. Posting on the public forum will only draw public ire.

Whatever you said.Anyways I have multiple builds but as you know and everyone else knowsNone of these builds stand any chance. Why can’t you just accept this fact I don’t understandNecro is piece of hot garbage in fractals and literally the necromancer doesn’t have a single aspect where they can be used over any class that share the same mechanism with.

I respect your opinion and as I said before I don’t want any class to get nerfed (im talking about mesmers,guardians,thieves,warriors)All I wanted is to have similar meta shiit that necro can not only be accepted but to be a key with some kind of rule.

Is that too much to ask?

If I showed you how many messages I have between me and the devs and how many times they banned me you will be in shockI quit before for that reason and i thought things have changed after two good yearsBut it’s worse than before. At least we had our (single skill that made us kind of valuable in epidemic)Now it’s straight up hot garbage

Well then, apology accepted. :p

The response given to you was mainly to go against the argument of necro being unviable at the high end, which isnt true. I was never arguing against their lack of a niche in PvE. Except for ... maybe barrier spam.

However, unfortunate to say, but you may as well quit again, as the strengths of your favorite class aren't applicable to high end PvE by (inconsiderate) design. The things necro is absolutely the best at is debuffing, and every encounter that might pose a threat is immune to said debuffs. And since there is no alternate way to deal with something other than to kill it as fast as possible, necro suffers.

This is something I mentioned in the past myself, in that all abilities should be useful on all mobs, bosses, etc.; and if that leads to them being overpowered, then adjust the encounter to compensate. Either by way of more mobs, enemy cleansing skills (that can be interrupted and thus encourages timely interrupts instead of just draining a blue bar), better AI, whatever. Heck, even if those skills worked while said bar was orange/ recharging, that'd be an improvement! World bosses and similar would be a necessary exception to this.

But, nope. Seems like we're stuck with what we've got. Now, these tools are highly effective in competitive play, but outside of that... yeah. :(

[Obtena.7952]

Nothing really needs to change. The people that know how to play don't have problems with this. Sounds to me like if you impose these restrictions on yourself and you can't find a suitable solution to it ingame ... the right thing for you to do is leave it if bothers you that much.

[KrHome.1920]

If I showed you how many messages I have between me and the devs and how many times they banned me you will be in shockThis does not surprise me. Your postings in this thread here are full of logical discrepancies and despite the fact that they are quite extensive, they don't provide anything substancial. Everyone who is interested in a serious discussion will leave you alone quickly.

Sorry to tell you that. I did start an answer to your opening post (like don't fight trash mobs with condi), but then I read the rest of what you posted and no... it's pointless.

That said:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/106820/im-sorry-but-how-is-this-acceptable/p1(lots of constructive stuff in there)

[Xenic.1387]

@silent killer.5732 said:

@Xenic.1387 said:stupid question, but is power scourge viable? I honestly don't know. I haven't done enough fractals recently to say if it is or not. I know that it's very strong in wvw (yes I know thats different) so I'm wondering if you can tweak the build to work in PVE?

Saying stupid question while not playing fractals is plain stupidity.Do the adjustments and purchase the needed ar and see for yourself how piece of shiit the necro is at the highest level

You cant be a healerYou cant be a dps juggernautYou cant run condi because it’s slower than any low tier power dps.

So good luck trying to compete.

I used to fractal every day and I ran plaguedoctor up until I hit T4, then I just ran vipers. I had no issues. I never tried power, and I see that power scourge is popular, so I asked.