"Social"(?) limitations need some nerfing

[Milo.3840]

• I craft a bunch of items in an efficient manner to insta sell on the TP for modest profits (addicted to instant gratification). Say I've crafted 350 Sheets of Paper or some weapons people buy for Provisioner Tokens. I go to sell them on the TP, 1 available, 4 available, 17 available, 324 available (buy listings). For some reason, I am forced to constantly sell to the single buy order, over and over, at THE EXACT SAME PRICE, until I get the error message "You've placed too many sell listings too soon". WHY
• Selling items that are in high velocity "0 of your items have been sold, the remaining X will be..." still takes out listing fee
• A guild friend needed help yesterday with a general question. I was in a PvP match and absolutely cannot type fast enough and fight at the same time to talk. After the match I saw no one answered their question, so I whispered and told them everything I know. It was about condition damage, so I had to send multiple messages explaining the traits, sigils like Bursting, etc. "This player cannot whisper you back unless you add them as a friend" WHY
• Another one of my friends had a looooooot of karma stockpiled, so I wanted to buy some beaded weapons from them by sending darksteel and a little coin in return. When they tried to send me the weapons, it took over 15 minutes "Your message has been suppressed due to excessive messaging" WHY

Concerning instant selling, why is it not parallel in feature to instant buying? I can go to the TP and select 250 Visages of the Khan-Ur and it shows me a total cost from every seller, why not show me a total profit/cost from all buyers? Why do my items automatically get posted at a certain price when if I try to buy an item that already gets sold I am refunded immediately?

[Randulf.7614]

Isnt point 3 due to limitations of a free to play account (for your guildie)

[Milo.3840]

@Randulf.7614 said:Isnt point 3 due to limitations of a free to play account (for your guildie)

Hmm maybe never thought that was an issue.. point still stands though, whispering shouldn't be limited but mail for f2p I totally understand

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Milo.3840 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Isnt point 3 due to limitations of a free to play account (for your guildie)

Hmm maybe never thought that was an issue.. point still stands though, whispering shouldn't be limited but mail for f2p I totally understand

Whispering is specifically included in the free-to-play restrictions to prevent gold sellers from using free accounts to whisper advertise.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Here is some information that may, or may not, satisfy your curiosity:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Account#Limitationshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trading_Post#Notes

[Zephire.8049]

Is to minimize botting of the TP and to prevent drastic swings in a matter of minutes by throttling usage past a certain point. It's annoying but it serves a very real purpose.

The listing fee has always existed and serves to discourage people from using the TP as a way to store items. It's an upfront fee that you have to pay no matter what.

Whisper limitation is due to one or both of you having a free account. This is to prevent gold farmers from making unlimited free accounts and then spamming anyone and everyone with whispers. Mutual friends can whisper each other though.

The mail suppression is definitely annoying and overly sensitive. People have been asking Anet to up the limit for years to no response, though.

[Milo.3840]

@"Zephire.8049" said:

2. The listing fee has always existed and serves to discourage people from using the TP as a way to store items. It's an upfront fee that you have to pay no matter what.

Wasn't necessarily complaining about the listing fee itself, I was complaining that if you attempted to sell an item to a buy order, and that buy order was filled before you could sell it, your item still gets posted at that price and you have to pay the listing fee regardless. So if you crafted 230 amalgamated gemstones for a buy order of 170, and you only manage to sell 3 of them, 167 automatically get thrown on the TP and you can either wait for a buyer (I would have made a sell listing for more money if I wanted to wait) or you can take them down and resell them to another buyer, with another listing fee. So at this point, if you took it down and resold them you've lost 10ish gold just from fees alone, and if you waited it out you could have just posted them at a sell price instead

Concerning using the TP as a method to store items, that's hilariously genius. It all makes sense now that that rare scepter is posted for 10k.. he didnt have the bank space and he knows no one will buy it at that price /s

[Jilora.9524]

@Milo.3840 said:

@"Zephire.8049" said:

2. The listing fee has always existed and serves to discourage people from using the TP as a way to store items. It's an upfront fee that you have to pay no matter what.

Wasn't necessarily complaining about the listing fee itself, I was complaining that if you attempted to sell an item to a buy order, and that buy order was filled before you could sell it, your item still gets posted at that price and you have to pay the listing fee regardless. So if you crafted 230 amalgamated gemstones for a buy order of 170, and you only manage to sell 3 of them, 167 automatically get thrown on the TP and you can either wait for a buyer (I would have made a sell listing for more money if I wanted to wait) or you can take them down and resell them to another buyer, with another listing fee. So at this point, if you took it down and resold them you've lost 10ish gold just from fees alone, and if you waited it out you could have just posted them at a sell price instead

Concerning using the TP as a method to store items, that's hilariously genius. It all makes sense now that that rare scepter is posted for 10k.. he didnt have the bank space and he knows no one will buy it at that price /s

I don't think it's automatic. You sell the 3 then you have to reclick in the sell it now area but I'm not 100 percent sure. The easiest is if the highest buy order is 1g but it's a bunch of low amount ordered and you want to sell 170 then list them at 1g1c which will place them right above and will sell very fast anyway.

[Milo.3840]

@Jilora.9524 said:

@Milo.3840 said:

@"Zephire.8049" said:

2. The listing fee has always existed and serves to discourage people from using the TP as a way to store items. It's an upfront fee that you have to pay no matter what.

Wasn't necessarily complaining about the listing fee itself, I was complaining that if you attempted to sell an item to a buy order, and that buy order was filled before you could sell it, your item still gets posted at that price and you have to pay the listing fee regardless. So if you crafted 230 amalgamated gemstones for a buy order of 170, and you only manage to sell 3 of them, 167 automatically get thrown on the TP and you can either wait for a buyer (I would have made a sell listing for more money if I wanted to wait) or you can take them down and resell them to another buyer, with another listing fee. So at this point, if you took it down and resold them you've lost 10ish gold just from fees alone, and if you waited it out you could have just posted them at a sell price instead

Concerning using the TP as a method to store items, that's hilariously genius. It all makes sense now that that rare scepter is posted for 10k.. he didnt have the bank space and he knows no one will buy it at that price /s

I don't think it's automatic. You sell the 3 then you have to reclick in the sell it now area but I'm not 100 percent sure. The easiest is if the highest buy order is 1g but it's a bunch of low amount ordered and you want to sell 170 then list them at 1g1c which will place them right above and will sell very fast anyway.

Not exactly what I'm referring to.. to see what I mean, go to the TP and buy a bunch of cheap rare weapons armor and salvage them. Get a decent chunk of ectoplasm and try insta selling them. Ectos are super volatile so you should be able to recreate the frustration I'm talking about.

[Jilora.9524]

@Milo.3840 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:

@Milo.3840 said:

@"Zephire.8049" said:

2. The listing fee has always existed and serves to discourage people from using the TP as a way to store items. It's an upfront fee that you have to pay no matter what.

Wasn't necessarily complaining about the listing fee itself, I was complaining that if you attempted to sell an item to a buy order, and that buy order was filled before you could sell it, your item still gets posted at that price and you have to pay the listing fee regardless. So if you crafted 230 amalgamated gemstones for a buy order of 170, and you only manage to sell 3 of them, 167 automatically get thrown on the TP and you can either wait for a buyer (I would have made a sell listing for more money if I wanted to wait) or you can take them down and resell them to another buyer, with another listing fee. So at this point, if you took it down and resold them you've lost 10ish gold just from fees alone, and if you waited it out you could have just posted them at a sell price instead

Concerning using the TP as a method to store items, that's hilariously genius. It all makes sense now that that rare scepter is posted for 10k.. he didnt have the bank space and he knows no one will buy it at that price /s

I don't think it's automatic. You sell the 3 then you have to reclick in the sell it now area but I'm not 100 percent sure. The easiest is if the highest buy order is 1g but it's a bunch of low amount ordered and you want to sell 170 then list them at 1g1c which will place them right above and will sell very fast anyway.

Not exactly what I'm referring to.. to see what I mean, go to the TP and buy a bunch of cheap rare weapons armor and salvage them. Get a decent chunk of ectoplasm and try insta selling them. Ectos are super volatile so you should be able to recreate the frustration I'm talking about.

I think I know but hard to recreate. You sell 170 to a 200 buy order but before you hit sell someone sold 150 before you then you get that partial msg only 50 were sold. Then maybe the rest get listed automatically is what you mean? But they should almost sell in 5 minutes and you shouldn't have to pull and sell to the next guy but I can see if you in a hurry then it's annoying but idk how they could fix with so much activity except remove that autolist and give you them back

[Linken.6345]

@Milo.3840 said:

@"Zephire.8049" said:

2. The listing fee has always existed and serves to discourage people from using the TP as a way to store items. It's an upfront fee that you have to pay no matter what.

Wasn't necessarily complaining about the listing fee itself, I was complaining that if you attempted to sell an item to a buy order, and that buy order was filled before you could sell it, your item still gets posted at that price and you have to pay the listing fee regardless. So if you crafted 230 amalgamated gemstones for a buy order of 170, and you only manage to sell 3 of them, 167 automatically get thrown on the TP and you can either wait for a buyer (I would have made a sell listing for more money if I wanted to wait) or you can take them down and resell them to another buyer, with another listing fee. So at this point, if you took it down and resold them you've lost 10ish gold just from fees alone, and if you waited it out you could have just posted them at a sell price instead

Concerning using the TP as a method to store items, that's hilariously genius. It all makes sense now that that rare scepter is posted for 10k.. he didnt have the bank space and he knows no one will buy it at that price /s

That 10k rare weapon is to get around the 500g a week gold mail limitation mate.

[Guest]

It's been mentioned in other threads but not this one that "instant" selling really isn't that - the game creates a listing first, at the "buy order" price, that then is filled (almost) immediately. The coded procedure is always "create listing > check for buy order > fill if there." So you have to pay the fee because you did in fact list the item, as far as the game is concerned: your item was properly listed at the price you chose, it's just that there was no longer an order at that price to fill, so it stays listed. To the game there is no difference between that and someone listing an item at any other price that doesn't have a buy order to match to complete the transaction. The system was set up this way presumably as part of its safeguards against various errors, exploits, and dupe methods.

[Khisanth.2948]

@"Milo.3840" said:

• I craft a bunch of items in an efficient manner to insta sell on the TP for modest profits (addicted to instant gratification). Say I've crafted 350 Sheets of Paper or some weapons people buy for Provisioner Tokens. I go to sell them on the TP, 1 available, 4 available, 17 available, 324 available (buy listings). For some reason, I am forced to constantly sell to the single buy order, over and over, at THE EXACT SAME PRICE, until I get the error message "You've placed too many sell listings too soon". WHY

That scenario contains 4 different prices which is the opposite of exact same price. The rate limiting here is just technical though. There is a limit to how many transactions the database can handle. They throttle everyone in order to keep the average number of transactions the database has to handle to something that the database can manage. Without this throttling everyone would just start seeing errors from the TP more often.

If you are thinking "Can't they just get more powerful database servers?", the answer is maybe. It depends on the cause. Discussions on database scaling is completely outside the scope of this forum and we are missing a ton of information anyway.

• Selling items that are in high velocity "0 of your items have been sold, the remaining X will be..." still takes out listing fee

Velocity is irrelevant. There is a listing fee no matter how you sell or how fast it is sold. It is also listed right there in the UI.

Concerning instant selling, why is it not parallel in feature to instant buying? I can go to the TP and select 250 Visages of the Khan-Ur and it shows me a total cost from every seller, why not show me a total profit/cost from all buyers? Why do my items automatically get posted at a certain price when if I try to buy an item that already gets sold I am refunded immediately?

"Instant sell" is badly labeled button. A more accurate button would be "sell my stuff for this specific price which happens to be the same as the price that someone else is willing to buy them" but that is never going to fit on any button. There is no "sell all my stuff, I don't care about the price" button.

The buy and sell situations are not as symmetric as you think.

If a buyer places a buy order for 100 items for 100g but ends up only paying 50g because someone posted a cheap listing in between the order being placed and the processing of the order then that buyer would be pretty happen. If the opposite scenario occurred then the buyer gets their money back.

If a seller place a "sell these things for whatever price with an expected return of 100g" order for 100 items but ends up only getting 50g because someone else filled half the order a millisecond earlier then not only would the seller be unhappy they would probably start filing bug reports against something working as designed.

[Milo.3840]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@"Milo.3840" said:

• I craft a bunch of items in an efficient manner to insta sell on the TP for modest profits (addicted to instant gratification). Say I've crafted 350 Sheets of Paper or some weapons people buy for Provisioner Tokens. I go to sell them on the TP, 1 available, 4 available, 17 available, 324 available (buy listings). For some reason, I am forced to constantly sell to the single buy order, over and over, at THE EXACT SAME PRICE, until I get the error message "You've placed too many sell listings too soon". WHY

That scenario contains 4 different prices which is the opposite of exact same price. The rate limiting here is just technical though. There is a limit to how many transactions the database can handle. They throttle everyone in order to keep the average number of transactions the database has to handle to something that the database can manage. Without this throttling everyone would just start seeing errors from the TP more often.

If you are thinking "Can't they just get more powerful database servers?", the answer is maybe. It depends on the cause. Discussions on database scaling is completely outside the scope of this forum and we are missing a ton of information anyway.

• Selling items that are in high velocity "0 of your items have been sold, the remaining X will be..." still takes out listing fee

Velocity is irrelevant. There is a listing fee no matter how you sell or how fast it is sold. It is also listed right there in the UI.

In case I wasn't clear, the different scenarios were me trying to give an image of what the buy order listings look like. Refer to your ghost pepper image. You see 15, 250, 250, 250, 250, 222. That should mean there is one buy order for 15 right? No. I constantly have to sell to "1 available" at the exact same price over and over and over and over. In your image, it would be equivalent to having 1500 ghost pepper poppers and selling to the 15 order maybe 8 or 9 times before you can get to the 250 listings. The game doesnt say 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15, 250 etc it only has that one listing. Why? That seems counter intuitive to your database scenario if I am constantly having to instant sell something.

Again, I'm NOT complaining about the listing fee itself. I'm complaining that my items automatically get posted at the price I intended to "instant" sell. Instant selling has a taxes, I'm well aware. The way I view instant selling is, selling the item pretty cheaply with minimal returns, and my additional metaphorical profit is saving time. I view sell listings as selling the item for more profit and I wait for the returns. So if my items get posted automatically at the cheap price, not only do I have to wait for them to get bought, but I wasted time selling them at a cheap price when if I wanted to wait I would put them at the sell listing profit. Say your items you crafted don't sell very often, and you end up waiting and you get undercut, even at your cheap price that you intended to "instant sell". So now you have to take them down and pay an additional tax to sell them at your original cheap price.

How do people think "still takes out listing fee" is me complaining about the listing fee? (They do suck though.)High velocity meaning a lot of items are getting sold and bought. So if you sell 47 globs of ectoplasm to an instant sell price, likely that buy order will get filled very quick and you may only sell 8 of them, so in my eyes it should work like trying to buy an item. If you instant buy 47 globs of ectoplasm and someone else buys 39 of them, the game gives you your money back and 8 ectoplasms; so it should work like "8 of your items were sold for X, here's your 39 back".

[Hashberry.4510]

I have seen this ‘one available’ scenario several times as well, when attempting to sell a lot of fire meat chili, for example. It’s very frustrating.