Legendary Armor - Equally obtainable across the board

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:Why does this argument always turn into a debate of afk farming and buying your way through content? If you actually play the game like a normal person it takes much less time to get the pve gear. But by all means if you want to argue that flipping camps for 500 hours is an easy way to get legendary armor then try it out yourself. Personally I would find raiding a couple times a week to be far easier.

Typically only raiders are able to do full raid clears and it’s not something a random player can expect to do. If they do go the raid route, you have to account for all of the time it takes for them to gain experience on how to do each raid encounter.

I would expect that someone trying to get pve legendary armor would become a raider though. Just like its not recommended to play wvw entirely solo just flipping objectives, its not really recommended to do raids casually in pugs. Raids become much easier with a guild, both in learning the fights and then efficiently farming them.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:Why does this argument always turn into a debate of afk farming and buying your way through content? If you actually play the game like a normal person it takes much less time to get the pve gear. But by all means if you want to argue that flipping camps for 500 hours is an easy way to get legendary armor then try it out yourself. Personally I would find raiding a couple times a week to be far easier.

Typically only raiders are able to do full raid clears and it’s not something a random player can expect to do. If they do go the raid route, you have to account for all of the time it takes for them to gain experience on how to do each raid encounter.

I would expect that someone trying to get pve legendary armor would become a raider though. Just like its not recommended to play wvw entirely solo just flipping objectives, its not really recommended to do raids casually in pugs. Raids become much easier with a guild, both in learning the fights and then efficiently farming them.

Yes they would probably eventually become a raider but there’s still time spent getting to the point that they can participated in experiences clear group. Some may get lucky and join a guild’s clear group who will carry them as they learn and eventually pull their weight. However, sPvP and WvW do not require this “learning period” as you can jump right in earning your time-gated rewards are the same rate you would if you were a veteran in that game mode.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@jwhite.7012 said:

@blambidy.3216 said:

@Lottie.5370 said:

@blambidy.3216 said:

@jwhite.7012 said:

@blambidy.3216 said:Highly disagree. Only because even though you dont spend much time compared to pvp and wvw however not many people can even put in the effort in pve legendary armor compared to pvp and wvw. With all do respect to people who do have legendary pvp and wvw armor. All they truly have to do is participate vs in pve you actually have to kill 150 raid kills + get certain bosses and doing tasks. Even though it tech isn’t hard to do for legendary pve armor, it is harder to majority of the player base in gw2. Therefore the people who put more effort in get a less time gate.

Except for the fact that you can literally just buy your way through the PvE gear. So no, hardly would consider the effort equal.

I wonder if you know how expensive a kill is. The price does go higher and lower depending on the boss however let’s say it’s 400 gold per boss. 400 x 150 = 60,000 gold. Depending on the fluctuations of gem to gold conversion that’s pretty steep for just the first set. However that’s a flat rate. And most likely carrying someone through the heart achievements would most likely cost more since it would cost more time since 2 of the heart achievements the player can not die even if the boss is killed. However that’s just the first set. The second and third set is 300 LI for 1 set. So it’s 120,000 gold for the second and third set. Total if the person bought all 3 sets 400 x 750 = 300,000 gold. That’s some massive cheddar for a video game.However I don’t sell and I never bought. All I know is the gold does fluctuate higher or lower depending on the bosses. So it could be higher or lower then this assumption depending on the seller.

Yeah... but buying a full wing, or even every full wing, will probably get you a hefty discount. The OP has to remember that the cost is being split among 6-9 people and has to be worth it for each of them cost wise, however.

But you are way off for 400g/boss. A Samarog CM, for example, is around 275MC~ which is less than 450g~, and it's one of the harder CMs, regular bosses (especially W1-4) will go for

way

less than that. I'd say Dhuum is the highest value normal kill in the region of 150MC. (I am not a raid seller, but I do know some)

It is still going to be thousands of gold, but nowhere near 120,000 :p

Like Ali said I don’t know the prices ? but yea. No where near it but it’s still quite a bit of gold. I personally wouldn’t go that route since legendarys are pretty costly themselves. Specially since mystic coins skyrocketed. Not only you buy the raid kill but you have to still buy the armor. I mean power to them for supporting the game but it isn’t worth it.

Most map metas are pretty consistent with Gold /hr. Somewhere around the 30g /hr is pretty easy to achieve.

Huh. Most metas you say? I can only think of three that come close to that.

[saye.9304]

no i made legendary armor from wvw by just capturing camps and some towers and sometimes following commander, very easy to keep your participation at level 6 all the time, also did my dailies through wvw and made some gold along they way, not to mention stuff you get from reward track, easy peasy.on the other hand, pve raiders must go through training raid, after that farming raid and they have to spend around 2800 gold, all of the effort plus gold to get legendary armor. pve is harder by far.in pvp even if you lose you still get reward, only hard part is to deal with toxic players and for that i always turn my chat off, that is how i made legendary back from pvp and i suck at pvp.can you do such things in pve raids??

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

When PvE gets a second method for making legendary armor just like PvP does, we'll talk.

[Ragebru.1397]

@"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:When PvE gets a second method for making legendary armor just like PvP does, we'll talk.

That's funny.. considering that most of these comments say "flip a camp every ten minutes" which oddly enough involves no PvP.

[Zok.4956]

@"jwhite.7012" said:Legendary armor should be obtainable across all three methods with the same time restrictions.PvE - 6 weeks (3-4 hours /week)PvP - 3 seasons of 8x3x8 (just to get the tickets) - (hundreds of hours to amass the ascended shards of glory) minmum of 19 weeks, but likely longer since it requires the additional repeatable chests.WvW - Minimum of 22 weeks

I think the PvE-legendary armor should better be called Raid-legendary armor because that name matches the purpose and requirements of that armor better.

In the announcement blogpost from Anet: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/legendary-armor-is-coming-soon/they wrote: "As a reward for defeating the raid bosses, we realized early on that we would need something that reflects your success to other players. Enter legendary armor—the ultimate pinnacle of armor in all of Tyria.", so it is clearly an armor made for raiders. Yes, raids are part of the PvE-gamemode, but only a small part of the PvE-playerbase is raiding.

The requirements for Raid, PvP and WvW legendary armor can not be compared very good because the three "game modes" are quite different and as a result they have different skill and time requirements.

All three have in common that they have requirements that can be fulfilled (more or less easily) from players that often/mainly play those "game modes" in addition to (more or less identical) big material requirements.

But a player that does not raid (or that does not play PvP or WvW) will not be able to get that specific version of legendary armor. I think that this is OK even if I never will be able to get the PvP-legendary armor because I do not play PvP.

Instead of lowering the requirements for the raid, PvP, WvW legendary armor, Anet could go another way because they probably want to monetize their "legendary armory" better to more players and the biggest share of the player base (my guess) does not raid, WvW or PvP:

Anet could introduce a real PvE legendary armor that is achievable for non-raiders, non-PvPers and non-WvWers.

I do not know if and when the "legendary armory" will be ready (probably not before next expansion) but I believe that is it very likely that they introduce more legendary armor/items in the next expansion for PvE-ers. (which could also help to sell that expansion).

[maddoctor.2738]

@"jwhite.7012" said:PvE - 6 weeks (3-4 hours /week)PvP - 3 seasons of 8x3x8 (just to get the tickets) - (hundreds of hours to amass the ascended shards of glory) minmum of 19 weeks, but likely longer since it requires the additional repeatable chests.WvW - Minimum of 22 weeks

The difference is that you can start "working" towards PVP and WVW Legendary Armors as a level 10 player with green gear and no experience in playing the game. Good luck with that in Raids. What you are missing in your calculations is the time required to reach the appropriate point to begin the journey. Maybe for a player with vast experience in the game, already maxed out builds and characters and 5k hours of play time, the PVE legendary will take less time to complete than the other two, starting at the same time

[Dawdler.8521]

@jwhite.7012 said:Legendary armor should be obtainable across all three methods with the same time restrictions.PvE - 6 weeks (3-4 hours /week)PvP - 3 seasons of 8x3x8 (just to get the tickets) - (hundreds of hours to amass the ascended shards of glory) minmum of 19 weeks, but likely longer since it requires the additional repeatable chests.WvW - Minimum of 22 weeks

Even after reaching the time-gates, you still have to tack on all the mats that need to be farmed. Increase the sPvP ascended shards of glory collection rates. Increase the WvW Skirmish claim tickets - at least to the point where it's relatively the same time frame as going the PvE route.And yet I have all 3 legendary sets 100% from WvW because I havent played a single second of a PvE raid and my last 10 PvP matches still has a few from 2018 in the list.

So for some reason, WvW was faster. Curious.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:Why does this argument always turn into a debate of afk farming and buying your way through content? If you actually play the game like a normal person it takes much less time to get the pve gear. But by all means if you want to argue that flipping camps for 500 hours is an easy way to get legendary armor then try it out yourself. Personally I would find raiding a couple times a week to be far easier.

Typically only raiders are able to do full raid clears and it’s not something a random player can expect to do. If they do go the raid route, you have to account for all of the time it takes for them to gain experience on how to do each raid encounter.

I would expect that someone trying to get pve legendary armor would become a raider though. Just like its not recommended to play wvw entirely solo just flipping objectives, its not really recommended to do raids casually in pugs. Raids become much easier with a guild, both in learning the fights and then efficiently farming them.

Yes they would probably eventually become a raider but there’s still time spent getting to the point that they can participated in experiences clear group. Some may get lucky and join a guild’s clear group who will carry them as they learn and eventually pull their weight. However, sPvP and WvW do not require this “learning period” as you can jump right in earning your time-gated rewards are the same rate you would if you were a veteran in that game mode.

I dont think anyone is questioning the time spent learning raids. And besides, most new pvp and wvw players arent able to play nearly 400 games a season or finish the skirmish reward track every week. If its a question of obtaining legendary armor as someone who is dedicated to the gamemode, pve is far quicker. If you then assume the player is a veteran of the gamemode, pve is even faster.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Legendary armor is the primary reward for raids, pvp and wvw are the alternative methods that takes longer, but have a lower skill cap. There is a similar design decision with ascended rings. The primary method is fractals, only takes 10 pristine relics which can be earned from 1 cm+t4 run, the alternative is 35 laurels, which would take about a month to earn. Now with the ls there are now other methods of gettings rings, but fractals still are the fastest and most efficient.

[Wisty.4135]

Fun fact - it took me less time to get a full set of WvW leggies than it did for Raid Leggies. Theoretically, yes, jt takes less time for PVE, but there's a lot of factors at play that drastically increase this time... Notably, clear times. A FC static of average raiding skill takes 4-6 hours. On average. Usually more, though, whereas in a pvp season you show up every day, play 5-6 matches, and you have the final track done in no time. Faster if you win. Or wvw, show up K-train for 2-3 hours a night and you are usually at least mithril tier by the time Friday rolls around. A little extra time sat and sunday make that diamond tier.

All in all, the comparative effort is about the same when accounting for time spent overall, byt pvp and wvw are by far easier and "faster" to get if you even passively play those modes.

[Ragebru.1397]

@"Wisty.4135" said:Fun fact - it took me less time to get a full set of WvW leggies than it did for Raid Leggies. Theoretically, yes, jt takes less time for PVE, but there's a lot of factors at play that drastically increase this time... Notably, clear times. A FC static of average raiding skill takes 4-6 hours. On average. Usually more, though, whereas in a pvp season you show up every day, play 5-6 matches, and you have the final track done in no time. Faster if you win. Or wvw, show up K-train for 2-3 hours a night and you are usually at least mithril tier by the time Friday rolls around. A little extra time sat and sunday make that diamond tier.

All in all, the comparative effort is about the same when accounting for time spent overall, byt pvp and wvw are by far easier and "faster" to get if you even passively play those modes.

Those numbers are posted as achieving max rewards /week. So, no.. 2-3 hours a night wont get you the final chest in wvw every week. Which means you'd need to nearly double the time frame making it around 40 weeks for WvW. Playing just a few PvP matches every night would probably get you a third of the way, so you're looking at somewhere around 50 weeks.

It's funny to me that none of these arguments weigh all three equally. Which really shows that this system in itself is flawed. You can't just focus on one entity here, a few comments above mentioned that you can WvW at lvl 5... hm, no. They bumped the min to 60. You take the route of PvP, and even that requires a positive WR.

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:Legendary armor is the primary reward for raids, pvp and wvw are the alternative methods that takes longer, but have a lower skill cap. There is a similar design decision with ascended rings. The primary method is fractals, only takes 10 pristine relics which can be earned from 1 cm+t4 run, the alternative is 35 laurels, which would take about a month to earn. Now with the ls there are now other methods of gettings rings, but fractals still are the fastest and most efficient.

Which is why Raids have unique skins that you can ONLY acquire in the raids. You can acquire ascended gear from nearly every thing you do in the game. WvW, Open World, Raids, PvP, Bosses- all of which are pretty equal in terms of gearing.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:Why does this argument always turn into a debate of afk farming and buying your way through content? If you actually play the game like a normal person it takes much less time to get the pve gear. But by all means if you want to argue that flipping camps for 500 hours is an easy way to get legendary armor then try it out yourself. Personally I would find raiding a couple times a week to be far easier.

Typically only raiders are able to do full raid clears and it’s not something a random player can expect to do. If they do go the raid route, you have to account for all of the time it takes for them to gain experience on how to do each raid encounter.

I would expect that someone trying to get pve legendary armor would become a raider though. Just like its not recommended to play wvw entirely solo just flipping objectives, its not really recommended to do raids casually in pugs. Raids become much easier with a guild, both in learning the fights and then efficiently farming them.

Yes they would probably eventually become a raider but there’s still time spent getting to the point that they can participated in experiences clear group. Some may get lucky and join a guild’s clear group who will carry them as they learn and eventually pull their weight. However, sPvP and WvW do not require this “learning period” as you can jump right in earning your time-gated rewards are the same rate you would if you were a veteran in that game mode.

I dont think anyone is questioning the time spent learning raids. And besides, most new pvp and wvw players arent able to play nearly 400 games a season or finish the skirmish reward track every week. If its a question of obtaining legendary armor as someone who is dedicated to the gamemode, pve is far quicker. If you then assume the player is a veteran of the gamemode, pve is even faster.

It’s not about whether people are questioning the time but them ignoring it completely. Getting armor through raids is quicker only if they’re already an established raider. Someone brand new is not going to immediately be off doing full clears. They’re going to have to spend time learning the mechanics for all of the fights as well as their rotation(s). This learning phase makes it take much longer to obtain legendary armor than from the other modes.

[Ragebru.1397]

I dont think anyone is questioning the time spent learning raids. And besides, most new pvp and wvw players arent able to play nearly 400 games a season or finish the skirmish reward track every week. If its a question of obtaining legendary armor as someone who is dedicated to the gamemode, pve is far quicker. If you then assume the player is a veteran of the gamemode, pve is even faster.

It’s not about whether people are questioning the time but them ignoring it completely. Getting armor through raids is quicker only if they’re already an established raider. Someone brand new is not going to immediately be off doing full clears. They’re going to have to spend time learning the mechanics for all of the fights as well as their rotation(s). This learning phase makes it take much longer to obtain legendary armor than from the other modes.

Uhm, no.. You literally just proved my point. If you think there isn't a learning curve for PvP or WvW, you're terribly mistaken. Being able to identify every ability in the game is crucial to climbing the ladders. A new player in WvW won't understand the importance of boon sharing, or what to even do. (it also requires a substantial amount of knowledge of other classes and specs). In raids, you learn your role. You learn the boss mechanics. You rinse, you repeat. How many updates have raid bosses received since they released? How often do raiders have to relearn an entire fight due to changes in mechanics? Because all you have to do, is look at old patch notes, and start adding up how frequently talents and abilities change (ONLY for WvW/PvP rebalancing).

[Ayrilana.1396]

@jwhite.7012 said:

I dont think anyone is questioning the time spent learning raids. And besides, most new pvp and wvw players arent able to play nearly 400 games a season or finish the skirmish reward track every week. If its a question of obtaining legendary armor as someone who is dedicated to the gamemode, pve is far quicker. If you then assume the player is a veteran of the gamemode, pve is even faster.

It’s not about whether people are questioning the time but them ignoring it completely. Getting armor through raids is quicker only if they’re already an established raider. Someone brand new is not going to immediately be off doing full clears. They’re going to have to spend time learning the mechanics for all of the fights as well as their rotation(s). This learning phase makes it take much longer to obtain legendary armor than from the other modes.

Uhm, no.. You literally just proved my point. If you think there isn't a learning curve for PvP or WvW, you're terribly mistaken. Being able to identify every ability in the game is crucial to climbing the ladders. A new player in WvW won't understand the importance of boon sharing, or what to even do. (it also requires a substantial amount of knowledge of other classes and specs). In raids, you learn your role. You learn the boss mechanics. You rinse, you repeat. How many updates have raid bosses received since they released? How often do raiders have to relearn an entire fight due to changes in mechanics? Because all you have to do, is look at old patch notes, and start adding up how frequently talents and abilities change (ONLY for WvW/PvP rebalancing).

There’s no learning curve for either, or at the very least, it’s small.

For WvW you can mindlessly follow a zerg, cap a camp every 10 min, repair SMC every 10 min assuming its being attacked, or escort a yak every five min. None of it requires any learning other than the existence of these methods. There’s literally no personal skill needed as well. You simply do things to maintain your participation as you gain pips with each tick. You don’t need to know anything about your class/build.

For sPvP, it’s easier as you just have to be present in the match. You gain a fixed amount of pips if you lose and a fixed amount of pips if you win. You gain progress regardless. The average win rate has been stated as 50%.

For raids, you need to spend time learning the proper rotation for your class/build. You most likely will need to know more than one. You will also need to learn the mechanics of each raid boss and this often results in numerous failures which costs time. Outside of the learning phase, you have the time it takes to complete the raids. Getting 4-hour clears is from groups that know everything very well and have very little downtime. A new player is highly unlikely to be is such a group. They are also highly unlikely to be doing full clears right away.

This is something that you’re continuously dismissing, or at the very least, downplaying.

[Zok.4956]

@jwhite.7012 said:

I dont think anyone is questioning the time spent learning raids. And besides, most new pvp and wvw players arent able to play nearly 400 games a season or finish the skirmish reward track every week. If its a question of obtaining legendary armor as someone who is dedicated to the gamemode, pve is far quicker. If you then assume the player is a veteran of the gamemode, pve is even faster.

It’s not about whether people are questioning the time but them ignoring it completely. Getting armor through raids is quicker only if they’re already an established raider. Someone brand new is not going to immediately be off doing full clears. They’re going to have to spend time learning the mechanics for all of the fights as well as their rotation(s). This learning phase makes it take much longer to obtain legendary armor than from the other modes.

Uhm, no.. You literally just proved my point. If you think there isn't a learning curve for PvP or WvW, you're terribly mistaken. Being able to identify every ability in the game is crucial to climbing the ladders. A new player in WvW won't understand the importance of boon sharing, or what to even do. (it also requires a substantial amount of knowledge of other classes and specs).

You do not need to know anything about boon sharing when you run with a karma-train or when you just want to farm pips in WvW.

If a player just wants to farm pips/tickets for legendaries, there is not much skill required. The requirement in WvW is not about personal skill, but instead about how much time a player spends in WvW. And that's because what a player can do in WvW is highly dependent on the server they're a member of.

[Ragebru.1397]

This is something that you’re continuously dismissing, or at the very least, downplaying.

You're implying that people can't be carried through a raid. If you couldn't be carried, then there wouldn't even be the availability to "purchase" runs. I get anywhere between 60-100 pings from the GW2 Raid academy every single day- mind you, that's just the NA side that i partake in. Currently, there are 2 full group as we speak doing FC's. When I hop on to WvW, there's like 5-10 people in the off BL's.

I'm not downplaying your raids, and if you would look at the original post and my argument- it's that the time involved is drastically off-scaled.

WvW - 22 weeks, 18hrs/ week, 396 hrs total. Are you telling me, that it takes 396 hours to learn to raid?

PvP - 19 weeks with a higher than 55% WR, plus you must additionally repeat the final chest 24 times. 670 Pips required just to get to the final chest. 4320 pips additionally, 4990 pips in total, 10 pips for a win, 3 for a loss. If you win every single game- That's still 499 games with a 100% WR. Factor in queue times and match times.. you should hopefully get the point by now.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@"jwhite.7012" said:

This is something that you’re continuously dismissing, or at the very least, downplaying.

You're implying that people can't be carried through a raid. If you couldn't be carried, then there wouldn't even be the availability to "purchase" runs. I get anywhere between 60-100 pings from the GW2 Raid academy every single day- mind you, that's just the NA side that i partake in. Currently, there are 2 full group as we speak doing FC's. When I hop on to WvW, there's like 5-10 people in the off BL's.

The average new player is not going to join a group that will continuously carry them. It’s misleading to use that has a basis.

Also, the number of players in WvW doesn’t negatively affect your ability to obtain and maintain pips. The lower the your server population on a map, the better as it’ll increase the likelihood of getting the outmanned buff.

I'm not downplaying your raids, and if you would look at the original post and my argument- it's that the time involved is drastically off-scaled.

It’s only off-so-called because you’re focusing solely on the time to do them in optimal conditions while ignoring everything that goes into preparing a new player to even succeed at raids. The other two game modes don’t really require any prior training and such in order to earn pips.

WvW - 22 weeks, 18hrs/ week, 396 hrs total. Are you telling me, that it takes 396 hours to learn to raid?

You’re intentionally leaving out the time it would take someone to do the raids and applying all of it towards the learning phase. This is misleading.

PvP - 19 weeks with a higher than 55% WR, plus you must additionally repeat the final chest 24 times. 670 Pips required just to get to the final chest. 4320 pips additionally, 4990 pips in total, 10 pips for a win, 3 for a loss. If you win every single game- That's still 499 games with a 100% WR. Factor in queue times and match times.. you should hopefully get the point by now.

The point that the times are similar? Yes, I got it.

[Ragebru.1397]

@Zok.4956 said:

@jwhite.7012 said:

I dont think anyone is questioning the time spent learning raids. And besides, most new pvp and wvw players arent able to play nearly 400 games a season or finish the skirmish reward track every week. If its a question of obtaining legendary armor as someone who is dedicated to the gamemode, pve is far quicker. If you then assume the player is a veteran of the gamemode, pve is even faster.

It’s not about whether people are questioning the time but them ignoring it completely. Getting armor through raids is quicker only if they’re already an established raider. Someone brand new is not going to immediately be off doing full clears. They’re going to have to spend time learning the mechanics for all of the fights as well as their rotation(s). This learning phase makes it take much longer to obtain legendary armor than from the other modes.

Uhm, no.. You literally just proved my point. If you think there isn't a learning curve for PvP or WvW, you're terribly mistaken. Being able to identify every ability in the game is crucial to climbing the ladders. A new player in WvW won't understand the importance of boon sharing, or what to even do. (it also requires a substantial amount of knowledge of other classes and specs).

You do not need to know anything about boon sharing when you run with a karma-train or when you just want to farm pips in WvW.

If a player just wants to farm pips/tickets for legendaries, there is not much skill required. The requirement in WvW is not about personal skill, but instead about how much time a player spends in WvW. And that's because what a player can do in WvW is highly dependent on the server they're a member of.

I should also mention that those 22 weeks of 18hrs /week are active gameplay. Passively flipping camps every 10 minutes won't give you the WvW experience required to lvl up and gain the additional WvW tickets. WvW commander trains are reliant on multiple factors- ie. server occupancy, availability, frequency. My server specifically has 2 well known tags that frequently run. They run for 2-3 hours every night. Since we're matched with t1, more often than not they play more defense than offense. During the off hours, we have random commanders that run for 30min to an hour. Usually not overly successful runs.

Do you need boosters for Raids? Because the minimum breakdowns also factors in using WvW/PvP boosters. I have something like 30 birthday boosters left, a new player would not have that.

[Ragebru.1397]

WvW - 22 weeks, 18hrs/ week, 396 hrs total. Are you telling me, that it takes 396 hours to learn to raid?

You’re intentionally leaving out the time it would take someone to do the raids and applying all of it towards the learning phase. This is misleading.

It's already been said that an "average group" needs 4-6 hours to clear. So assuming you take the time to learn the raids, and then spend your 4-6 hours /week for the minimum of 6 weeks you're still looking at 24-36 hours of "experienced raiding". So are you still trying to say that the average gamer cannot learn the raid with the remaining 350 hours of spare time?

[Ayrilana.1396]

@jwhite.7012 said:

@Zok.4956 said:

@jwhite.7012 said:

I dont think anyone is questioning the time spent learning raids. And besides, most new pvp and wvw players arent able to play nearly 400 games a season or finish the skirmish reward track every week. If its a question of obtaining legendary armor as someone who is dedicated to the gamemode, pve is far quicker. If you then assume the player is a veteran of the gamemode, pve is even faster.

It’s not about whether people are questioning the time but them ignoring it completely. Getting armor through raids is quicker only if they’re already an established raider. Someone brand new is not going to immediately be off doing full clears. They’re going to have to spend time learning the mechanics for all of the fights as well as their rotation(s). This learning phase makes it take much longer to obtain legendary armor than from the other modes.

Uhm, no.. You literally just proved my point. If you think there isn't a learning curve for PvP or WvW, you're terribly mistaken. Being able to identify every ability in the game is crucial to climbing the ladders. A new player in WvW won't understand the importance of boon sharing, or what to even do. (it also requires a substantial amount of knowledge of other classes and specs).

You do not need to know anything about boon sharing when you run with a karma-train or when you just want to farm pips in WvW.

If a player just wants to farm pips/tickets for legendaries, there is not much skill required. The requirement in WvW is not about personal skill, but instead about how much time a player spends in WvW. And that's because what a player can do in WvW is highly dependent on the server they're a member of.

I should also mention that those 22 weeks of 18hrs /week are active gameplay. Passively flipping camps every 10 minutes won't give you the WvW experience required to lvl up and gain the additional WvW tickets.

What tickets? They’re solely contained with the skirmish reward track. If you meant pips the new player would maybe at most be short by one towards the second half of doing WvW over someone who was more active.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@"jwhite.7012" said:

WvW - 22 weeks, 18hrs/ week, 396 hrs total. Are you telling me, that it takes 396 hours to learn to raid?

You’re intentionally leaving out the time it would take someone to do the raids and applying all of it towards the learning phase. This is misleading.

It's already been said that an "average group" needs 4-6 hours to clear. So assuming you take the time to learn the raids, and then spend your 4-6 hours /week for the minimum of 6 weeks you're still looking at 24-36 hours of "experienced raiding". So are you still trying to say that the average gamer cannot learn the raid with the remaining 350 hours of spare time?

It’s been said by whom? Exactly from whom are you getting this average from? Those fast clear times are from experienced raiders with little downtime and no fails; not players new to raids. I mean, if you’re going to use the average time of highly experienced players then it’s only fair to apply that same “notion” to the other modes. Someone that is already highly experienced in WvW will likely complete the skirmish reward track in much less time than 18 hours.

I suggest that you do a raid training and see just how long it takes a group of new players to beat a boss.

[Ragebru.1397]

What tickets? They’re solely contained with the skirmish reward track. If you meant pips the new player would maybe at most be short by one towards the second half of doing WvW over someone who was more active.

My apologies, not tickets, the 3000 badges of honor required.

[Ragebru.1397]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"jwhite.7012" said:

WvW - 22 weeks, 18hrs/ week, 396 hrs total. Are you telling me, that it takes 396 hours to learn to raid?

You’re intentionally leaving out the time it would take someone to do the raids and applying all of it towards the learning phase. This is misleading.

It's already been said that an "average group" needs 4-6 hours to clear. So assuming you take the time to learn the raids, and then spend your 4-6 hours /week for the minimum of 6 weeks you're still looking at 24-36 hours of "experienced raiding". So are you still trying to say that the average gamer cannot learn the raid with the remaining 350 hours of spare time?

It’s been said by whom? Exactly from whom are you getting this average from? Those fast clear times are from experienced raiders with little downtime; not players new to raids. I mean, if you’re going to use the average time of highly experienced players then it’s only fair to apply that same “notion” to the other modes. Someone that is already highly experienced in WvW will likely complete the skirmish reward track in much less time than 18 hours.

I suggest that you do a raid training and see just how long it takes a group of new players to beat a boss.

Scroll up. There have been several posts on here saying that veteran clears take as little as 2-3 hours. Average clears take 4-6 hours.

You cant gain the skirmish reward track faster than 18 hours. Hop in to WvW, look above your map. It's time gated. Which ironically is the entirety of this post.