Don't like the POF expansion area's very much.

[yann.1946]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@keenedge.9675 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:The grenade issue is: how vines can have the intelligence to target you and throw you attacks? Like every kitten living being wants to kill you, its very annoying. Next step will be the grass will poison you.

People said ( and still say) about Orr too. It's an end-game map, you can't just run from mobs. Fight or die.

or simply uninstall and find another game. why does endgame have to be so different from the rest of it?

The endgame of Gw2 is raids, not open world, and this game has always been labeled as casual friendly.

most of base game is casual, the expansions certainly arent. and if they launch on steam in this state, the reviews are gonna tare them to pieces.

If you keep complaining about the current game's state (that has been in that state for many years now) and keep writing about quitting the game instead of learning it (

most recent one

), then why are you still here, playing the game? I can't imagine the game reverting its difficulty levels to the starting maps, it would be pretty stupid and boring.

i havent played for over 6 months now. and people still claim that this is a casual game, when only the start of it is .there is a name for that: BAIT AND SWITCH!!. have fun with the next round of DRMs.before the expansions, i was praising the game, and trying to get my buddies to play it too.now its the exact opposite. imagine buying a western book, and the last half of it is sci fi. same deal.the core game had one audience, the expansions are for a completely different type of players.its basically 2 DIFFERENT GAMES. that would only make sense for those , who DIDNT like the first part.core lovers dont get any expansions. and you have a game without a start. BRILLIANT

Thankfully! Can you imagine three expansion's worth of core gameplay? This game would have shut down years ago!

over a million players liked core enough to pay for the expansion. if the expansions had been near as good, they would had boasted with theperformance. they didnt. they halfed the price instead. money talks, bull... walks

You're right. That's why the next expansion will cater to players who actually play the game and put money toward it. Presumably, those players expect a degree of challenge that goes beyond a walking simulator plus auto-attack. You said it yourself. People who loved the core game and wanted more of that found somewhere else to spend their money.

You can talk about how wildly successful the core game was, but the fact is that's a fantasy. Maybe GW2 isn't wildly successful now, but it's neither here nor there. Going back to the beginning isn't going to happen because that plan already failed. That's why we find ourselves where we are.

it is called the sunk fallacy. youtube has some videos about it, watch them and learn.

Not really, it depends on whether you think its reasonable for people to return. Please only use logical fallacies when applicable

[Sobx.1758]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Also wanted to add a couple of general combat tips:

1) Keep your eye on the enemy, not on your skill bar. Get into the habit of making quick glances, but don't allow your eyes to remain on your bar. I know it seems obvious, but it's easy to not realize you're doing it and a fraction of a second is all it takes to miss what should be obvious visual cues. In fact, you might try some practice runs against bosses that give you trouble where instead of focusing on dealing damage you just watch the boss for those visual cues and see how well you can avoid them when you aren't busy trying to perform a rotation.

2) Stay in motion. If you notice many of the attacks in this fight are projectiles or have "spreading" circles. The indicator appears under your feet well before the attack lands, so if you're already moving you shouldn't have to dodge. This will let you reserve those dodges for attacks that can't be avoided by simply moving out of the way. If you're at close range, strafe in a tight circle around the boss. Especially against larger, slower enemies this will often force them to turn before they can attack you and directional attacks are likely to miss.

if i can miss it in a fraction of second, then it isnt that obvious. that is literally the blink of an eye. and circlestrafing is often impossible due to knockbacks and adds.and none of them are casual mechanics either.

Usually it's not just "fraction of second".Usually you CAN easly keep circling the boss."Casual" doesn't mean you always win no matter what you do. The game doesn't stop being "casual" just because.... it has mechanics or rules.

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@keenedge.9675 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:The grenade issue is: how vines can have the intelligence to target you and throw you attacks? Like every kitten living being wants to kill you, its very annoying. Next step will be the grass will poison you.

People said ( and still say) about Orr too. It's an end-game map, you can't just run from mobs. Fight or die.

or simply uninstall and find another game. why does endgame have to be so different from the rest of it?

The endgame of Gw2 is raids, not open world, and this game has always been labeled as casual friendly.

most of base game is casual, the expansions certainly arent. and if they launch on steam in this state, the reviews are gonna tare them to pieces.

If you keep complaining about the current game's state (that has been in that state for many years now) and keep writing about quitting the game instead of learning it (

most recent one

), then why are you still here, playing the game? I can't imagine the game reverting its difficulty levels to the starting maps, it would be pretty stupid and boring.

i havent played for over 6 months now.

Lurking on the forum of the game you don't enjoy or even play (at least that's what you claim) for past 6 months just to keep complaining that you don't like it is pretty unhealthy and to be honest completely pointless.

and people still claim that this is a casual game, when only the start of it is .there is a name for that: BAIT AND SWITCH!!. have fun with the next round of DRMs.

Nah, it's still pretty casual, meaning you don't need to chase the level cap and catch up with gear treadmill after every addition to the game. Nobody said the game will not utilize its mechanics, which is apparently what you're complaining about. Like it or not, it's still an action mmorpg and leaving it at "starting zone level" would be just way too stagnant/boring.(and what is this random throw in with drms? What do you mean? What's the relevance here?)

video games has you sitting on a chair and pushing buttons, how is that healthy in any way? each click i give one of these threads makes it grow in size andrelevance, so its not pointless either. in fact , YOU are helping my side, by coming here to argue. if its only a couple of weirdos, then the thread will die in a couple of days.note, how many times we have had this kind of topic coming back. always started by different people. and the same handful of people come back to defend it.

Oh, I was talking about the mental health (and this is not supposed to be some cheap jab at you, this just seems like some unhealthy obsession to push people away from the thing they like

just because you don't like it

), not the "playing games = sitting = not moving = unhealthy!" take you're doing here.Nothing we do here is somehow "helping your case", this game will never revert to core. You claim (hopefully falsely, just to pretend you're making a strong stance or something) you don't play this game for 6 months and yet you constantly lurk this forum just to complain. This is weird.This game won't change to your desired core experience, so have fun with that o/

i read the forums, as you doi write on them, same as you ( you prolly do it WAY more than me)but. because i have a different opinion, than you, i am a crazy person now?i am not surprised to see you use the shame tactics to make me go away. but i AM offended, and i will report youif you dont like my opinion, then DONT READ IT

Did you even understand what you read? I play the game, so I participate on the forum. You don't play the game for half a year now (as you claim), you dislike it and yet you keep lurking the forum apparently just to tell

everyone else enjoying the game

that everything's so bad and people will/should stop playing (because that's pretty much all you do). Nobody cares you think people shouldn't enjoy it, if you prefer playing something else

then play something else

and participate on that game's forum. Try undestanding what you read, it was never about "just being on the forum" in a vacuum.

And I didn't say you're "crazy", mental health is about much more than just labeling someone "normal"/"crazy". Stop putting words in my mouth.

i didnt, YOU LITERALLY LABELLED ME WITH "MENTAL ISSUES" BECAUSE I HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION.

Nope, "your different opinion" has nothing to do with anything I wrote, so stop putting words in my mouth.

and i will be back in the next thread about the expansions too. the only ones, who can stop me are anet.

Nobody "wants to stop you", your obsession about game "you don't even play" is just weird -have fun with that though.

yep, way more fun than in the expansions.

I think you've meant to say "way more boring", but somehow mistyped it as "fun". :D

that should put things into perspective. its also obvious, why the aggro range is so much bigger in pof.its motivation for players to grind out the skyscale. they actually used a nasty F2P design in a PAID EXPANSION.

No, it's not, skyscale has nothing to do with that.

[Sobx.1758]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@BlueJin.4127 said:

@brgmns.9235 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

You may well be having trouble with the game, but that doesn't necessarily make a game hard core. If you don't agree, you can make a post on the forums and ask for the communities opinions on whether this game is hard core or not, difficult or not. My guess is only a small percentage of people will say it's hard core.

From my point of view this is a casual MMO that has become slightly less casual due to more grinding to get specific rewards. But most of that grinding is something that you don't need to do quickly and can be done over time.

Asking the hardcore base (people that post on forums aren’t the majority and by naitire are rarely casual even if they call themselves that) what they think the difficulty is doesn’t really work well lol.

Having played EQ at launch, we can probably agree it was hardcore, and most any MMO thats launched since then I’d say in today’s MMO this game is fairly hardcore for a newer player.

Veteran players don’t realize that because you have everything unlocked, fly around, have a great friend base to do what you need so honestly your opinion is so far obscured it’s basically useless. A brain surgeon telling a resident removing an appendix is trivial didn’t make it so.

The core game was fairly simple, easier than that honestly. HoT is a pain for new players. Constant events where your story takes you, half the time no one there to help you so you can barely get to the green marker. Veteran mobs are kind of tough and everywhere. It’s a maze on a massive scale up, down and underground so just knowing where to go is a pain. (green quest marker doesn’t say it’s up or down from current location like hero points do). Overall this isn’t casual by today’s standards at all.

Just running events with crowds isn’t casual. The mechanics aren’t hard, but aren’t simple either, it’s really fast paced because 90% of the people know what they are doing and the rest us are basically along for the ride so learning exactly what to do isn’t easy playing from behind most of the time. That’s not casual, that’s like joking a boss fight in a raid without any concept of what to do.

I’m not basing the game, it is what it is and I’m still playing it and like it a lot, but saying it’s causal and not hardcore by today’s standards isn’t accurate, at least to a new player.

No veteran was born good at this game. Veterans didn't have all mounts and masteries magically unlocked from the beginning of the game. They started from scratch just like any player that starts playing from today. Players improve over time. If a player is having trouble with HoT, it's not because they're casual; it's because they didn't improve enough since they started. Plenty of new and casual players have no trouble integrating into HoT. I never felt that HoT was too hard when I first stepped in and I was a casual barely a month into the game at the time. There is definitely a jump in difficulty curve, but nothing that can't be overcome by casually upgrading gears, builds, and learning to play a profession. Being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

I also cannot say that running events with crowds isn't casual. I was no veteran when I started playing HoT. When I returned to the game from a break, I had no idea what Drizzlewood was like. And I only recently got into fractals. Everybody already knew what they were doing, and I was just following them around clueless. After a couple of runs of just mindlessly following them, I learned the "mechanics" while not even trying to learn. I'd say that is very much casual. Again, being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

"plenty and casual" . AFAIK, hot usually has less than a 1000 players there. we know that it sold over a million at launch, prolly double that now.1000 may seem like a lot, bit it really isnt, when they have sold 2000 times as many copies. thats an approval rate of 0,2 %

So much implied misinformation here. It did sell 4 million PRE launch because no one had really played it and no one knew there wouldn't be much end game. It also lost a tremendous amount of players after a few months, because there was nothing to do for people who didn't want to either run dungeons or do event chains in Orr.

I had guild back then too and I watched them fall. Anet didn't introduce Fractals and ascended gear early on because those 4 million people were playing. They introduced harder, grindier stuff because so many people were leaving.

You really believe all 4 million of those people made it six months, because I was there and I can assure that that's not the case. I watched my two sons stop playing after they got their BIS gear. I watched others in my guild walk away and some of them later came back. But let's not pretend that you know why those 4 million people were playing or anyone knows what they wanted or even what a majority of them wanted..

Anet introduced harder content because people were leaving. If what they were doing was working they'd never have changed it. Why would they?

so THE MAJORITY of players left , because there was only HARDCORE content left to do in a CASUAL game...what a shockerand the harder content didnt bring the majority back either. do we need to discuss this further?

The majority players left because there were dungeons? I find that really hard to believe. The stuff in the game wasn't hard core, it was relatively easy yes even for casuals. Casual doesn't have to equal bad player. And many casuals are decent enough at the game. Many could learn dungeons with the right group, but everything else in the game at launch, was casual. And tons of players slipped away because there was nothing at all to do at end game that challenged them. When that stuff was added more people came back.

We can go back and forth on this pretty much forever. The only real problem now is people jumping into expansion content before they've learned the basics.

if i can finish the core game without learning the basics, then there is something wrong WITH THE GAME. and if "the basics" only become relevant in the expansionsthen it isnt "basic" but "advanced". you wanna try again?

I don't have to try again. You're making a claim you can't back up. You believe this so strongly that the amount of confirmation bias in your replies is too vast to comment on.

The basics aren't only relevant in the expansion. There is a ramp up. It's already been mention in this thread.

Dry Top is harder than Orr. Silverwastes is harder than Dry Top. Season 2 is harder than the core story. And of course, dungeons and fractals exist in the core game and if you play them you learn how to play. It's not really Anet's fault that you're skipping those.

Plenty of casual players played through and learned how to play because learning the basics was important to them. It was a focus. Some people just walk around and look at the pretty colors and range everything with a pet, or play a necro with minions and they think they're good enough because they can get through most of the core world. But the core world even still has some challenges that was task them.

Doing the harder events in the core world would train you. The events from Season 1 like the toxic spore events are harder with harder enemies. Orr itself has some pretty hard enemies. If you just avoid and ignore them because they're hard enemies instead of learning how to take them on, you're just ignoring the game.

Does the game have a learning curve at points? Sure it does. Does that mean that the game isn't casual. Nope. Everything has a learning curve. Not every casual has the same attitude. Not every casual thinks the same. Claiming all casuals think like you is probably a mistake. The same way that all casuals don't think like me.

if i can finish the core game without learning the basics, then there is something wrong WITH THE GAME. and if "the basics" only become relevant in the expansions

then it isnt "basic" but "advanced". you wanna try again?

Yes, true -if you could finish core without learning the basics then there was something wrong with the game. Luckily expansions try to fix that issue, so now you can learn how to actually use the basics while playing the game ^^

[Vayne.8563]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@BlueJin.4127 said:

@brgmns.9235 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

You may well be having trouble with the game, but that doesn't necessarily make a game hard core. If you don't agree, you can make a post on the forums and ask for the communities opinions on whether this game is hard core or not, difficult or not. My guess is only a small percentage of people will say it's hard core.

From my point of view this is a casual MMO that has become slightly less casual due to more grinding to get specific rewards. But most of that grinding is something that you don't need to do quickly and can be done over time.

Asking the hardcore base (people that post on forums aren’t the majority and by naitire are rarely casual even if they call themselves that) what they think the difficulty is doesn’t really work well lol.

Having played EQ at launch, we can probably agree it was hardcore, and most any MMO thats launched since then I’d say in today’s MMO this game is fairly hardcore for a newer player.

Veteran players don’t realize that because you have everything unlocked, fly around, have a great friend base to do what you need so honestly your opinion is so far obscured it’s basically useless. A brain surgeon telling a resident removing an appendix is trivial didn’t make it so.

The core game was fairly simple, easier than that honestly. HoT is a pain for new players. Constant events where your story takes you, half the time no one there to help you so you can barely get to the green marker. Veteran mobs are kind of tough and everywhere. It’s a maze on a massive scale up, down and underground so just knowing where to go is a pain. (green quest marker doesn’t say it’s up or down from current location like hero points do). Overall this isn’t casual by today’s standards at all.

Just running events with crowds isn’t casual. The mechanics aren’t hard, but aren’t simple either, it’s really fast paced because 90% of the people know what they are doing and the rest us are basically along for the ride so learning exactly what to do isn’t easy playing from behind most of the time. That’s not casual, that’s like joking a boss fight in a raid without any concept of what to do.

I’m not basing the game, it is what it is and I’m still playing it and like it a lot, but saying it’s causal and not hardcore by today’s standards isn’t accurate, at least to a new player.

No veteran was born good at this game. Veterans didn't have all mounts and masteries magically unlocked from the beginning of the game. They started from scratch just like any player that starts playing from today. Players improve over time. If a player is having trouble with HoT, it's not because they're casual; it's because they didn't improve enough since they started. Plenty of new and casual players have no trouble integrating into HoT. I never felt that HoT was too hard when I first stepped in and I was a casual barely a month into the game at the time. There is definitely a jump in difficulty curve, but nothing that can't be overcome by casually upgrading gears, builds, and learning to play a profession. Being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

I also cannot say that running events with crowds isn't casual. I was no veteran when I started playing HoT. When I returned to the game from a break, I had no idea what Drizzlewood was like. And I only recently got into fractals. Everybody already knew what they were doing, and I was just following them around clueless. After a couple of runs of just mindlessly following them, I learned the "mechanics" while not even trying to learn. I'd say that is very much casual. Again, being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

"plenty and casual" . AFAIK, hot usually has less than a 1000 players there. we know that it sold over a million at launch, prolly double that now.1000 may seem like a lot, bit it really isnt, when they have sold 2000 times as many copies. thats an approval rate of 0,2 %

So much implied misinformation here. It did sell 4 million PRE launch because no one had really played it and no one knew there wouldn't be much end game. It also lost a tremendous amount of players after a few months, because there was nothing to do for people who didn't want to either run dungeons or do event chains in Orr.

I had guild back then too and I watched them fall. Anet didn't introduce Fractals and ascended gear early on because those 4 million people were playing. They introduced harder, grindier stuff because so many people were leaving.

You really believe all 4 million of those people made it six months, because I was there and I can assure that that's not the case. I watched my two sons stop playing after they got their BIS gear. I watched others in my guild walk away and some of them later came back. But let's not pretend that you know why those 4 million people were playing or anyone knows what they wanted or even what a majority of them wanted..

Anet introduced harder content because people were leaving. If what they were doing was working they'd never have changed it. Why would they?

so THE MAJORITY of players left , because there was only HARDCORE content left to do in a CASUAL game...what a shockerand the harder content didnt bring the majority back either. do we need to discuss this further?

The majority players left because there were dungeons? I find that really hard to believe. The stuff in the game wasn't hard core, it was relatively easy yes even for casuals. Casual doesn't have to equal bad player. And many casuals are decent enough at the game. Many could learn dungeons with the right group, but everything else in the game at launch, was casual. And tons of players slipped away because there was nothing at all to do at end game that challenged them. When that stuff was added more people came back.

We can go back and forth on this pretty much forever. The only real problem now is people jumping into expansion content before they've learned the basics.

if i can finish the core game without learning the basics, then there is something wrong WITH THE GAME. and if "the basics" only become relevant in the expansionsthen it isnt "basic" but "advanced". you wanna try again?

I don't have to try again. You're making a claim you can't back up. You believe this so strongly that the amount of confirmation bias in your replies is too vast to comment on.

The basics aren't only relevant in the expansion. There is a ramp up. It's already been mention in this thread.

Dry Top is harder than Orr. Silverwastes is harder than Dry Top. Season 2 is harder than the core story. And of course, dungeons and fractals exist in the core game and if you play them you learn how to play. It's not really Anet's fault that you're skipping those.

Plenty of casual players played through and learned how to play because learning the basics was important to them. It was a focus. Some people just walk around and look at the pretty colors and range everything with a pet, or play a necro with minions and they think they're good enough because they can get through most of the core world. But the core world even still has some challenges that was task them.

Doing the harder events in the core world would train you. The events from Season 1 like the toxic spore events are harder with harder enemies. Orr itself has some pretty hard enemies. If you just avoid and ignore them because they're hard enemies instead of learning how to take them on, you're just ignoring the game.

Does the game have a learning curve at points? Sure it does. Does that mean that the game isn't casual. Nope. Everything has a learning curve. Not every casual has the same attitude. Not every casual thinks the same. Claiming all casuals think like you is probably a mistake. The same way that all casuals don't think like me.

if i can finish the core game without learning the basics, then there is something wrong WITH THE GAME. and if "the basics" only become relevant in the expansions

then it isnt "basic" but "advanced". you wanna try again?

Yes, true -if you could finish core without learning the basics then there was something wrong with the game. Luckily expansions try to fix that issue, so now you can learn how to actually use the basics while playing the game ^^Actually what a lot of players tend to discount is that when you play S2 after core and before HoT that increased difficulty actually ramps up much smoother than a lot of players care to admit.It's not so much about the Expansions "fixing" the issue so much as a natural progression that some players flat out ignore due to the game's business model.The "basics" are decently and gradually taught to the player.But very few players are unable to negotiate content past the first Orr map. They are not representative of any player I have ever played with regardless how "casual". Misused jargon and invented statistics do not change this. I've never met a player who struggles with this game the way @battledrone.8315 claims to let alone screams bloody murder as often about it not being their fault while inventing fake statistics about player count and pretending to speak for a group of players he is clearly not part of.

This is what I was trying to say. I'm not a great player of this game. It takes me longer to get through stuff than a lot of younger players. I'm 59 years old with a bad shoulder and all sorts of problems that make it harder to play, not the least of which is 300 ping. And there are some instances I had to do a few times to learn how to beat them.

But I do very very little PvP and I'm not very good at it. I don't raid at all, though I've tried a couple. I know i could get good enough to do anything in the game, but I'm not interested in raids or PvP. I do like WvW, and play some of that, not usually in a zerg either. I just play casually. And I expect harder core players to beat me, because they live there.

I had very little problem with Orr even before the nerf. I had to learn to survive in dungeons and fractals. I still aren't great at stuff like T4 fractals but with guild group I can get carried through most of the time. I mean Sirens Reef at T4 isn't casual content to me. But I perservere.

I love stuff like jumping puzzles and some of the mini games. And I can get through all of the story content solo but I often duo stuff with my wife. You can be casual and play with a friend, which can help you through stuff. There's very little stuff you have to solo.

Casual doesn't have to mean solo. It doesn't have to mean bad. But if I have to redo an instance five, six times till I learn it or figure it out, that's acceptible to me.

I think some people think that dying means the game is too hard. Dying in this game is an attrition mechanic. There's no real penalty for it. It means you need to learn something or do something different.

Older gamers tend to see death as "losing". People who played games like call of Duty or any 3D Shooter sees death as a normal part of the game. It's probably because in the old days we had checkpoints instead of game saves and we had to just not die to continue. Dying, fighting back to where I was to try again always felt punishing. Doesn't happen so much in this game. It's just not that bad.

For some people if they keep dying they don't really figure out how to stop dying. I ask people I know for advice if I get stuck or go with a friend. From the point of view of harder core players, I'm absolute casual. From the point of view of casual people I'm probably quite hard core. But I've helped dozens if not hundreds of casuals players over the years to learn the game better.

If anyone on a US server is a casual player who thinks the game is too hard, I'm happy to help them out, particularly if they can jump on voice so I can talk them through some stuff.

Regardless, PoF can be annoying at places, but I don't think it's that hard in most places and I don't think it has anything to do with casual vs hard core. It simply annoys some people.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"Vayne.8563" said:Casual doesn't have to mean solo. It doesn't have to mean bad. But if I have to redo an instance five, six times till I learn it or figure it out, that's acceptible to me.I think you make a few decent points in your post and it's worth reinforcing that the "casual friendly" nature of this game has nothing to do with the difficulty level of the extended tutorial (the 1-80 Core content).The things that are meant to provide this accessibility are things like:

• Waypoints
• Gear progression that allows acquisition of BiS gear without gating it behind the hardest content
• A trait system that allows unlimited free respeccing out of combat
• Resurrection that is not class/build dependant
• Lack of fail conditions in Story content
• Every player having a dedicated self heal
• A PvP system with normalized gearing that allows players access to all traits and abilities without gating it behind PvE progress.

The list goes on.Shouting out that the game is not casual because of the need to dodge red circles or counterplay conditions is farcical.

Older gamers tend to see death as "losing". People who played games like call of Duty or any 3D Shooter sees death as a normal part of the game. It's probably because in the old days we had checkpoints instead of game saves and we had to just not die to continue. Dying, fighting back to where I was to try again always felt punishing. Doesn't happen so much in this game. It's just not that bad.This is not an issue confined to older players. This is a reaction to the dismissal of the power fantasy that "death" provides.A quick look at the PvP forums and it's heap of players who confuse "balance" with their own low skill cap bears this out. Many of these posts are written by players far younger than you or I.Regardless, PoF can be annoying at places, but I don't think it's that hard in most places and I don't think it has anything to do with casual vs hard core. It simply annoys some people.PoF becomes much less "annoying" in pretty short order when the player learns to deal a decent amount of damage, mitigate conditions and properly manage aggro with the help of a mount.Good players will adapt.

[Joote.4081]

@"mindcircus.1506" said:

PoF becomes much less "annoying" in pretty short order when the player learns to deal a decent amount of damage, mitigate conditions and properly manage aggro with the help of a mount.Good players will adapt.

I question this. When I first hit POF it was true I had to learn how to deal with the harder than normal creatures and it was annoying.NOW, I can cut through groups of them in short order BUT, the frequency I have to do this is more annoying than when I had a hard time killing one.

Then you add to the fact that the drops from these encounters range from nothing to worth nothing. I get something more valuable from farming a plant.If they gave you a bit of leather or something useful but it's more than not a dirty toenail (trophy) or something along those lines.I spent over a hour farming Minitours and got about 5 vails of blood and 674 dirty toenail trophy's. I hear you say you can always get a few coppers for the toenails and buy your mats, but isn't the joy of crafting partly down to going out and winning the ingredients for yourself?I remember when farming something gave you something, Then, having mobs everywhere was called a farming area and not a kitten annoyance.

[Maikimaik.1974]

@Joote.4081 said:I remember when farming something gave you something, Then, having mobs everywhere was called a farming area and not a kitten annoyance.

Farming for specific mats was never a thing in Gw2.

[mindcircus.1506]

@Joote.4081 said:Then you add to the fact that the drops from these encounters range from nothing to worth nothing. I get something more valuable from farming a plant.If they gave you a bit of leather or something useful but it's more than not a dirty toenail (trophy) or something along those lines.I spent over a hour farming Minitours and got about 5 vails of blood and 674 dirty toenail trophy's. I hear you say you can always get a few coppers for the toenails and buy your mats, but isn't the joy of crafting partly down to going out and winning the ingredients for yourself?I remember when farming something gave you something, Then, having mobs everywhere was called a farming area and not a kitten annoyance.If going out and grinding trash mobs for mats is your idea of a fun gameplay loop then have at er... but as @"Maikimaik.1974" said this has never been an efficient way to gather resources in this game.That said....The thought that you would grind for an entire hour on minotaurs and see only 5 bloods suggests that either:

• You are dramatizing your low returns for posting purposes.
• You are doing something wrong

If I wanted to farm trash mobs for bloods, I would head west from Highjump Ranch in Desert Highlands. I would grab the big group of 5 that roams around the base of the hills, and kite those into the vet, then take care of those. Then I would jump up onto the three plateau areas and take care of the two groups of statics and one group of roaming minotaurs there.Then I would run the Gauntlet of skelk just above those, jump back down and repeat. The only real issue with this rotation would be the possibility of overclearing and having to wait for the first group of minotaurs to respawn.If I were only seeing 5 bloods an hour doing this, a massive red flag would go off that I simply was not doing enough damage. Vendor Trash items such as "toenails" are largely irrelevant in this game.

[Joote.4081]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Joote.4081 said:Then you add to the fact that the drops from these encounters range from nothing to worth nothing. I get something more valuable from farming a plant.If they gave you a bit of leather or something useful but it's more than not a dirty toenail (trophy) or something along those lines.I spent over a hour farming Minitours and got about 5 vails of blood and 674 dirty toenail trophy's. I hear you say you can always get a few coppers for the toenails and buy your mats, but isn't the joy of crafting partly down to going out and winning the ingredients for yourself?I remember when farming something gave you something, Then, having mobs everywhere was called a farming area and not a kitten annoyance.If going out and grinding trash mobs for mats is your idea of a fun gameplay loop then have at er... but as @"Maikimaik.1974" said this has never been an efficient way to gather resources in this game.That said....The thought that you would grind for an entire hour on minotaurs and see only 5 bloods suggests that either:

• You are dramatizing your low returns for posting purposes.
• You are doing something wrong

If I wanted to farm trash mobs for bloods, I would head west from Highjump Ranch in Desert Highlands. I would grab the big group of 5 that roams around the base of the hills, and kite those into the vet, then take care of those. Then I would jump up onto the three plateau areas and take care of the two groups of statics and one group of roaming minotaurs there.Then I would run the Gauntlet of skelk just above those, jump back down and repeat. The only real issue with this rotation would be the possibility of overclearing and having to wait for the first group of minotaurs to respawn.If I were only seeing 5 bloods an hour doing this, a massive red flag would go off that I simply was not doing enough damage. Vendor Trash items such as "toenails" are largely irrelevant in this game.

If your forced to kill-em then you may as well get something for the time wasted. Or is your idea of fun killing 6000 nothing mobs a day for toenails?So you see GW2 is all about farming mobs, but for nothing worth while.

[Maikimaik.1974]

@Joote.4081 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Joote.4081 said:Then you add to the fact that the drops from these encounters range from nothing to worth nothing. I get something more valuable from farming a plant.If they gave you a bit of leather or something useful but it's more than not a dirty toenail (trophy) or something along those lines.I spent over a hour farming Minitours and got about 5 vails of blood and 674 dirty toenail trophy's. I hear you say you can always get a few coppers for the toenails and buy your mats, but isn't the joy of crafting partly down to going out and winning the ingredients for yourself?I remember when farming something gave you something, Then, having mobs everywhere was called a farming area and not a kitten annoyance.If going out and grinding trash mobs for mats is your idea of a fun gameplay loop then have at er... but as @"Maikimaik.1974" said this has never been an efficient way to gather resources in this game.That said....The thought that you would grind for an entire hour on minotaurs and see only 5 bloods suggests that either:

• You are dramatizing your low returns for posting purposes.
• You are doing something wrong

If I wanted to farm trash mobs for bloods, I would head west from Highjump Ranch in Desert Highlands. I would grab the big group of 5 that roams around the base of the hills, and kite those into the vet, then take care of those. Then I would jump up onto the three plateau areas and take care of the two groups of statics and one group of roaming minotaurs there.Then I would run the Gauntlet of skelk just above those, jump back down and repeat. The only real issue with this rotation would be the possibility of overclearing and having to wait for the first group of minotaurs to respawn.If I were only seeing 5 bloods an hour doing this, a massive red flag would go off that I simply was not doing enough damage. Vendor Trash items such as "toenails" are largely irrelevant in this game.

If your forced to kill-em then you may as well get something for the time wasted. Or is your idea of fun killing 6000 nothing mobs a day for toenails?So you see GW2 is all about farming mobs, but for nothing worth while.

Who's forcing you to farm mobs?As I said before, you can easily get away from pretty much any mob by using your jackal.

[mindcircus.1506]

@Joote.4081 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Joote.4081 said:Then you add to the fact that the drops from these encounters range from nothing to worth nothing. I get something more valuable from farming a plant.If they gave you a bit of leather or something useful but it's more than not a dirty toenail (trophy) or something along those lines.I spent over a hour farming Minitours and got about 5 vails of blood and 674 dirty toenail trophy's. I hear you say you can always get a few coppers for the toenails and buy your mats, but isn't the joy of crafting partly down to going out and winning the ingredients for yourself?I remember when farming something gave you something, Then, having mobs everywhere was called a farming area and not a kitten annoyance.If going out and grinding trash mobs for mats is your idea of a fun gameplay loop then have at er... but as @"Maikimaik.1974" said this has never been an efficient way to gather resources in this game.That said....The thought that you would grind for an entire hour on minotaurs and see only 5 bloods suggests that either:

• You are dramatizing your low returns for posting purposes.
• You are doing something wrong

If I wanted to farm trash mobs for bloods, I would head west from Highjump Ranch in Desert Highlands. I would grab the big group of 5 that roams around the base of the hills, and kite those into the vet, then take care of those. Then I would jump up onto the three plateau areas and take care of the two groups of statics and one group of roaming minotaurs there.Then I would run the Gauntlet of skelk just above those, jump back down and repeat. The only real issue with this rotation would be the possibility of overclearing and having to wait for the first group of minotaurs to respawn.If I were only seeing 5 bloods an hour doing this, a massive red flag would go off that I simply was not doing enough damage. Vendor Trash items such as "toenails" are largely irrelevant in this game.

If your forced to kill-em then you may as well get something for the time wasted. Or is your idea of fun killing 6000 nothing mobs a day for toenails?So you see GW2 is all about farming mobs, but for nothing worth while.You are missing the point I think.I don't think grinding mobs for mats is fun at all. I certainly wouldn't kill minotaurs for an hour just for bloods... regardless how many bloods they dropped.

Here is how I approach this game:Do the things I think are fun and use the income generated to fund what I want.I identify the activities I think are fun, and this may change on any given day. Some nights I might feel like doing big metas. Other nights I might want to do some group content with my friends like fractals or DRMs. Some nights all I might want to do is roam WvW other nights I just might smack a golem in raid training and work on a build. Other than the last example, all of these things are exponentially more rewarding than grinding mobs for mats.I take the materials I earn doing the things I enjoy sell what I don't need/want and use the income generated to get the rest.

If I don't enjoy it, I don't do it.This is what this game is about.