Menders needs to go

[Crozame.4098]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524

Supports - (not bunkers) still have next to zero damage. Please check your facts before posting false information.

I doubt its next to 0 dmg. For some builds, it has enough dmg to push ppl out of a node.

[Emberheart.8426]

The problem with support specs is baked into the base game mechanics and cannot be fixed without a huge overhaul. Since the game was not initially designed with support specs in mind, Anet did not implement ally targeted skills. This means that when they made support specs they had to make every single support skill an AoE. In other MMOs AoE support is pretty rare and/or on higher cooldowns, with single target being the main form of support. This means that a healer has to choose if they will sustain themselves or their allies and cannot do both at the same time. Really, this is the main reason why they are so tanky in this game.

In addition, there is this little-known thing called an interrupt. Skills that interrupt other casts without CCing, which would be a pretty decent counter since stability would not affect it. Sadly, Anet is really slow with implementing proper counter play. Interrupts do not exist, reveal is very rare and close to useless, and there are barely any anti-mobility tools in this game. There are probably even more problems with counters that I forgot to mention.

[ollbirtan.2915]

@Crozame.4098 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524

Supports - (not bunkers) still have next to zero damage. Please check your facts before posting false information.

I doubt its next to 0 dmg. For some builds, it has enough dmg to push ppl out of a node.

Please, do share those support builds with us then. I am dying to play one myself since apparently I've been in the dark for so many years.

[Crozame.4098]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524

Supports - (not bunkers) still have next to zero damage. Please check your facts before posting false information.

I doubt its next to 0 dmg. For some builds, it has enough dmg to push ppl out of a node.

Please, do share those support builds with us then. I am dying to play one myself since apparently I've been in the dark for so many years.

Sscourge??

[Kuma.1503]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:@"Trevor Boyer.6524"

Supports - (not bunkers) still have next to zero damage. Please check your facts before posting false information.

I doubt its next to 0 dmg. For some builds, it has enough dmg to push ppl out of a node.

Please, do share those support builds with us then. I am dying to play one myself since apparently I've been in the dark for so many years.

I've made a few of them myself, but they're all custom builds made by a gold player, so I can't guarantee they'll win a MAT or anything.

Support Scrapper

My build specifically for countering Burn DH + Scourge comps. Turns their burning into Aegis and regen, and if there are any immob druids lurking about trying to abuse their synergy with sword of justice, then it's free resistance as well.

It doesn't have much off-node pressure, but it does have plenty of means to push you off node between mortars, acid bomb, and thunderclap.

Mace/Shield Ventari

Build designed to support allies with massive regen ticks (permenant uptime). You camp glint until you need to swap to Ventari for burst heals. I often top dps on this build because of how much pressure you pump out overtime with your mace skills. Elemental Blast is also good area denial.

Vulnerable to lockdown/focus on its own, but very difficult to kill if you pair it with a Firebrand Support. You can keep the firebrand alive while they provide you with stability and stunbreaks, and you both can cover the node in AoEs that will force the enemy off.

Shocking Aura Tempest

Designed to pair with a Spite Reaper. Against bunkery comps, you two can steamroll your way through teamfights. You provide constant CC with shocking aura which makes it difficult for the opposing team to focus your reaper. Spite reaper struggles to maintain swiftness on its own, and has no sources of fury, but you can provide perma uptime on both with zephyr's boon. You can load up the enemy team with vuln (25 easily) with overload air and lightning orb (both do very good damage despite running menders), this procs Decimate defenses on top of allowing your reaper to deal up to 25% increased damage to your its target.

With Warhorn offhand you can pressure the node with Lightning orb, Windfire, and Dust Storm while filling in space with overload air. Dagger mainhand gives you shocking aura which has both a reduced cooldown and increased uptime thanks to rune of radiance.

Note: Invigorating Torrents over Harmonious conduit is a personal prefrence.

I have a few more, but I'm still testing them.

[ollbirtan.2915]

@Kuma.1503 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:@"Trevor Boyer.6524"

Supports - (not bunkers) still have next to zero damage. Please check your facts before posting false information.

I doubt its next to 0 dmg. For some builds, it has enough dmg to push ppl out of a node.

Please, do share those support builds with us then. I am dying to play one myself since apparently I've been in the dark for so many years.

I've made a few of them myself, but they're all custom builds made by a gold player, so I can't guarantee they'll win a MAT or anything.

Support Scrapper

My build specifically for countering Burn DH + Scourge comps. Turns their burning into Aegis and regen, and if there are any immob druids lurking about trying to abuse their synergy with sword of justice, then it's free resistance as well.

It doesn't have much off-node pressure, but it does have plenty of means to push you off node between mortars, acid bomb, and thunderclap.

Mace/Shield Ventari

Build designed to support allies with massive regen ticks (permenant uptime). You camp glint until you need to swap to Ventari for burst heals. I often top dps on this build because of how much pressure you pump out overtime with your mace skills. Elemental Blast is also good area denial.

Vulnerable to lockdown/focus on its own, but very difficult to kill if you pair it with a Firebrand Support. You can keep the firebrand alive while they provide you with stability and stunbreaks, and you both can cover the node in AoEs that will force the enemy off.

Shocking Aura Tempest

Designed to pair with a Spite Reaper. Against bunkery comps, you two can steamroll your way through teamfights. You provide constant CC with shocking aura which makes it difficult for the opposing team to focus your reaper. Spite reaper struggles to maintain swiftness on its own, and has no sources of fury, but you can provide perma uptime on both with zephyr's boon. You can load up the enemy team with vuln (25 easily) with overload air and lightning orb (both do very good damage despite running menders), this procs

Decimate defenses

on top of allowing your reaper to deal up to 25% increased damage to your its target.

With Warhorn offhand you can pressure the node with Lightning orb, Windfire, and Dust Storm while filling in space with overload air. Dagger mainhand gives you shocking aura which has both a reduced cooldown and increased uptime thanks to rune of radiance.

Note: Invigorating Torrents over Harmonious conduit is a personal prefrence.

I have a few more, but I'm still testing them.

Out of the 3, only tempest barely scratches the 'deal damage AND support (not bunker)" category so please, just don't.

[Enduronex.4865]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524

Supports - (not bunkers) still have next to zero damage. Please check your facts before posting false information.

What are you talking about? Support mender's scourge can do a lot of damage, even considering it is a bunker

[Kuma.1503]

The thing about supports is that they don't seem like they do damage because the vast majority don't dish out high burst damage, but their staying power in teamfights allows them to output a lot of damage over time, sometimes outdoing even their dps.

[ollbirtan.2915]

Mkay, if you think that 100k dps over 10min+ match on a support scourge is a lot of damage, then I don't have any words left for you.

[razaelll.8324]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:Mkay, if you think that 100k dps over 10min+ match on a support scourge is a lot of damage, then I don't have any words left for you.

I dont know why you believe scourge is doing 100K, but when i am on my blood support scourge i am doing between 200-250K dmg which is not bad for support imo

[ollbirtan.2915]

Imagine how much damage proper DPS are doing in that case? Also. scourge aside, can you show me a support (not bunker) guardian, ventari, tempest that can do 200 k dmg over 10 mins fight AND at least double of that in healing? I'm dying to see some videos..

[razaelll.8324]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:Imagine how much damage proper DPS are doing in that case? Also. scourge aside, can you show me a support (not bunker) guardian, ventari, tempest that can do 200 k dmg over 10 mins fight AND at least double of that in healing? I'm dying to see some videos..

All i pointed out is that your number was not correct. I usually do between 15 - 20 % of my team's damage as scourge and about 25 -40% of our team's healing. I am not arguing at all about support and bunkers since i dont have the experience to do so.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

Well sounds like another troll thread.The core problem is still too less dmg from half of the classes in sPvP do trough the feb nerf last year. I also play condi clean bunker(Healbreaker) this season so I can say a little bit about it under classes like Herold, Renegade, Burn DH and Reaper and some thief builds I melt like snow under the sun.

But some builds are just tickling me.

Here my list from worst to better:->Core Ele and Engi-> Mesmer and Ranger in whole there are exceptions to it those classes are in general too bad. Mirage and Soulbeast have been nerfed so hard because they have too much burst in their PvE form(from my opinion even in PvE it is too much) which also cause to have Mirage too less sustain dmg even in PvE(because nerf.) Chrono is the opposite sustain dmg good(in PvE as condi even too good) but too less burst.

While I see some core Mesmer on Metabattle and I didn't know how good they are I know that core Ranger is next after core Ele and Engi. Druid is just outdated and as heal still too weak.

You may know the reason we have so many bunker builds is more then just the lack of dmg is is also the lack of everything else which lead to this Arean:NET also nerfed heal and protection this is why people use something like shield 5 on Healbreaker or the elite on Guardian but there is even more to this . The reason people stay with those skill has also to do how weak the classes are which have access to unblockable skill or would build up their dmg over time. So next is :

->Scourge while Reaper has a lot of dmg Scourge is all over the place. From my Ele sPvP perspective the build has too much chill and crippled. In PvE the build has also too less dmg . So I would reduce the duration of the soft cc (or remove it when it makes more sense)and increase the dmg in general on Scourge. For PvE I would also add some breakbar dmg to the F button which cause fear.

-> Tempest it only a tick but especially the power build need more DPS

So to be 100% correct the reason we have this kind of problem is that a lot of classes got nerfed or were really weak a lot even before the feb nerf last year which makes them after this useless or at least not useful enough to make a different for the meta.

[lare.5129]

I think we need some powerful amults for gems, same mender but 2x each stat. Price is 2000 gems is ok. And remove current mender amulet.It will be fun for me.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@memausz.7264 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:@"Trevor Boyer.6524"

Supports - (not bunkers) still have next to zero damage. Please check your facts before posting false information.

What are you talking about? Support mender's scourge can do a lot of damage, even considering it is a bunker

That's the thing about these "support" anything is that they aren't really support at all...they are just glorified bunkers that do residual support as a consequence of some of their skills that also effect the team, which in most cases is negligible.