The issue with the Sidenode Dueling and Roaming dominance of Revenant, Engineer and Ranger

[GuriGashi.5617]

I think it is extremely weird, that these three classes have the sustain to dominate the sidenode duelist meta in form of Condi Herald, Prot Holo and Core Ranger/Condi Soulbeast, while having unholy sustain and at the same time they outclass every single roamer when running Power Herald/Renegade, Nade Holo and „Sick‘em“ Soulbeast by utilizing high damage and mobility.

What makes it even more oppressing is that no matter whether they decide to run defensive duelist or offensive roamer they don‘t lose too much on the other side of the spectrum.This causes alot of problems for other classes such as Thief or Warrior - I personally don‘t ever play either one, but especially Thief is a good example of a victim during this meta. They don‘t have the damage anymore to +1 these defensive sidenoders effectively and at the same time roamers in form of these three classes do a better job at roaming. Thieves therefore believe that they need buffs, which they don‘t and every light class can confirm that - Revenant, Engineer and Ranger specs have to simply be fixed once and for all - not by adjusting a few modifiers, but by starting to force them to have a trade-off between damage, mobility and sustain, otherwise they will forever stay the first choice for stuff like class stacking. Power Herald/Renegade, Nade Holo and „Sick‘em“ Soulbeast should feel like they are running Berserker amulet and the damage of Condi Herald, Prot Holo and Core Ranger/Condi Soulbeast should be small if they want to run more defensive specs.

Many classes have roamer or sidenoder specs that could work well and achieve great results in AT‘s, but they fade in comparison to the three constant problems in the meta - classic examples of specs that would profit are Reaper, Strength Spellbreaker, Daredevil and a bunch more.

[Downstate.4697]

So no counters exist for any of those? And is it soulbeast or core that is the problem? What is the counter to heavy damage pressure?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

• Ranger is not listed in meta, and it isn't even listed in great. Neither Ranger or Druid or Soulbeast is listed in meta or great.
• Renegade is falling out actually. Condi Herald and Power Herald are making a big comeback after Mender/Marshal removal.
• Nade Holo is fine. It's not even busted. Prot Holo is top Holo right now because it counters Scourge play.
• Good DP Daredevils are kind of MVP right now to be honest. It is actually listed as #1 meta right now and I agree with that from what I've seen in recent AT play. Teams that have a solid DP Daredevil have a significant advantage vs. teams who don't.

[AleCenta.2190]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

• Ranger is not listed in meta, and it isn't even listed in great. Neither Ranger or Druid or Soulbeast is listed in meta or great.
• Renegade is falling out actually. Condi Herald and Power Herald are making a big comeback after Mender/Marshal removal.
• Nade Holo is fine. It's not even busted. Prot Holo is top Holo right now because it counters Scourge play.
• Good DP Daredevils are kind of MVP right now to be honest. It is actually listed as #1 meta right now and I agree with that from what I've seen in recent AT play. Teams that have a solid DP Daredevil have a significant advantage vs. teams who don't.

How can you use metabattle as a reference for talking about meta? That site is dead and the ratings on classes are bad. Revs are meta at high rating but are bad asf at average rating, reaper is meh at high rating but it’s meta at low rating. And those are only 2 examples. Ranger is not listed on metabattle but it’s actually god atm with pet dealing sick amount of dmgs, revs have always been meta and will always be if they can keep doing everything other classes do but in a better/safer way.

Regarding the main topic i don’t think there’s a real solution, thief has been the only good roamer for years and just by changing some small things like initiative costs of sb 5 it fell behind other classes. There will always be classes in a better spot than others and balancing this game is a total mess.

[Quadox.7834]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

• Ranger is not listed in meta, and it isn't even listed in great. Neither Ranger or Druid or Soulbeast is listed in meta or great.
• Renegade is falling out actually. Condi Herald and Power Herald are making a big comeback after Mender/Marshal removal.
• Nade Holo is fine. It's not even busted. Prot Holo is top Holo right now because it counters Scourge play.
• Good DP Daredevils are kind of MVP right now to be honest. It is actually listed as #1 meta right now and I agree with that from what I've seen in recent AT play. Teams that have a solid DP Daredevil have a significant advantage vs. teams who don't.

superspeed is busted on holo (regardlesss if prot or nade)

[GuriGashi.5617]

@FrownyClown.8402 said:So no counters exist for any of those? And is it soulbeast or core that is the problem? What is the counter to heavy damage pressure?

Every class has a counter, but they have less than most this is why they are considered S tier duelists for example, but that is not what this thread is about. It is about them outperforming every other sidenoder and roamer, which isn‘t healthy for the meta and is like a chokehold on build diversity, since there is no incentive to run other sidernoders or roamers in high-level play such as AT‘s

[Zyreva.1078]

@snoow.1694 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:So no counters exist for any of those? And is it soulbeast or core that is the problem? What is the counter to heavy damage pressure?

Every class has a counter, but they have less than most this is why they are considered S tier duelists for example, but that is not what this thread is about. It is about them outperforming every other sidenoder and roamer, which isn‘t healthy for the meta and is like a chokehold on build diversity, since there is no incentive to run other sidernoders or roamers in high-level play such as AT‘s

There hasn't been a monthly AT since the latest PvP balance changes, and daylies aren't neccessarily the best example of competitive high-lvl play. And in the last monthly much more thieves and even mesmers were played than core rangers or sic'em soulbeasts. In fact, those two ranger specs haven't been meta for high lvl competitive PvP for almost a year and it is questionable whether it has changed now, as none of the latest changes should have a significant impact on those classes.

So what exactly is your alleged "ranger domination" based on?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

based on watching recent mats the only rangers i've seen are the occasional druid. somewhat common i guess but not dominant by any means.