Power Creep is Out of Control

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

And anet defind it that support classes should get aggressive boons like quinkess and alacrity.

Anet never 'defind' anything like that. That doesn't make sense. Anet gave the appropriate boons to the classes whose themes they fit. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

That what elite spec are.

That makes NO sense to what I just posted. Elite specs do not allow players to choose the skills a class has. That's pre-determined by Anet in the design. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Anet never 'defended' anything like that. That doesn't make sense. 

They made scraper more able to support by giving it quinkness they could of given it any number of effects and skill but they chose quickness. Merz for alacrity. Agen these boons are different from every thing else in the game.

[Astralporing.1957]

5 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

No cost i am confused once you hit the bench mark of an fight dps and healing what is the point of going above and beyond that?

You might want to take a look at the cost/gain breakdown i gave  (again - assuming you ever did that). Then rething the question you just asked, and why it doesn't make sense in this context at all.

Also, it seems you are trying to shift the goalposts quite mightily here.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

They made scraper more able to support by giving it quinkness they could of given it any number of effects and skill but they chose quickness. Merz for alacrity. Agen these boons are different from every thing else in the game.

OK ... but you don't know if Anet 'defind' support classes like that. You're just making that stuff up as you go. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That makes NO sense to what I just posted. Elite specs do not allow players to choose the skills a class has. That's pre-determined by Anet in the design. 

That is the design of the game and what anet chose for the game a class can chose there skill by using an elite spec to fill a different roll and by use of different skills from the elite spec! Right now we are only lacking different rolls though lack of elite specs.

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You might want to take a look at the cost/gain breakdown i gave  (again - assuming you ever did that). Then rething the question you just asked, and why it doesn't make sense in this context at all.

Its pointless as long as you do enofe dps to kill a boss or player your good the more dmg is just time save but that dose nothing for the game. That what max min is. Same could be said for def skill and effects.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

You would have to remove soo much from the FB class maybe even the gurd class over all to make other support classes as viable. Its better to just ask for them to add to lesser support classes to bring them up.

No, it's not.

 

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

I do not have to respond to any thing and that you feel you need a responds show that you need to be reminded that your not an anet dev.

 

If you don't plan to respond then why are you still quoting me? You don't "have to respond", but it's another thing when you don't have anything valid to respond with despite still """responding""" while quoting the posts you don't want to respond to, so just pointing out the obvious. 😁

 

Me or you "not being anet dev" is as irrelevant as it was before, still not sure why you keep repeating it. And apprently neither are you.

 

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

to bog down the chat about balancing and power creep so that how i see such things and why i do not response to them.

"Bog down the chat about balancing and power creep"? You're literally THE one person cheering for more power creep here, lmao

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... but you don't know if Anet 'defind' support classes like that. You're just making that stuff up as you go. 

I am not making any thing up they gave scraper quinkness to be more usable as an support. That is meaningful.

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Jski.6180 said:

That is the design of the game and what anet chose for the game a class can chose there skill by using an elite spec to fill a different roll and by use of different skills from the elite spec! Right now we are only lacking different rolls though lack of elite specs.

I have no idea where you are going with this so I'm going to bring you back around to the point:

 

Anet controls the class theme so if a class doesn't have an ability, then it could be because that ability doesn't fit the theme. Elite specs and roles have nothing to do with the idea that giving ele ala/quickness boon share because you claim Anet has 'defind' support classes with these abilities is completely absurd. 

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

I am not making any thing up they gave scraper quinkness to be more usable as an support. That is meaningful.

Ok .. but you can't conclude that's part of how Anet defines support classes. That's just your fabrication. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Astralporing.1957]

5 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Its pointless as long as you do enofe dps to kill a boss or player your good the more dmg is just time save but that dose nothing for the game. That what max min is. Same could be said for def skill and effects.

Balancing costs and gains and arriving at a good combination is definitely not the same as heving everything at no cost. You're shifting goalposts here. Probably because you realized that your original claim had no basis in reality.

 

But i will humour you. Which build has "good enough" combination of dps, heal and all boons in one package? (Hint: it's none of the builds you have already mentioned - they all lack one of those elements. In fact, i don;t think any has even two of them fully)

Edited May 16, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

I have no idea where you are going with this so I'm going to bring you back around to the point:

 

Anet controls the class theme so if a class doesn't have an ability, then it could be because that ability doesn't fit the theme. Elite specs and roles have nothing to do with the idea that giving ele ala/quickness boon share because you claim Anet has 'defind' support classes with these abilities is completely absurd. 

We went over this boons have no theme its how the boons are applied that is the theme. Though auras super speed or fields.

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Jski.6180 said:

We went over this boons have no theme its how the boons are applied that is the theme. Though auras super speed or fields.

OK ... I didn't say boons have theme, so whatever point your trying to make to me doesn't make sense. The things a class gets are related to the theme of the class. If a class doesn't get a boon to share, it's likely that boon share might not fit the theme of the class. 

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Ok .. but you can't conclude that's part of how Anet defines support classes. That's just your fabrication. 

Yes that is anet said.

While the Scrapper can be played as an effective healer, it hasn't had access to the offensive boons it needs to be truly valuable as a support role in group PvE content. As a result, we've seen the Scrapper get very little play outside of WvW. With this update, we're reworking the Scrapper trait Kinetic Stabilizers so that Scrappers can apply the quickness boon on up to five targets, opening up a powerful boon support role for the specialization.

Yes that is anet said. Scraper already can give might and fury on some level so it HAS access to though offensive boons.

 

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Yes that is anet said.

While the Scrapper can be played as an effective healer, it hasn't had access to the offensive boons it needs to be truly valuable as a support role in group PvE content. As a result, we've seen the Scrapper get very little play outside of WvW. With this update, we're reworking the Scrapper trait Kinetic Stabilizers so that Scrappers can apply the quickness boon on up to five targets, opening up a powerful boon support role for the specialization.

Yes that is anet said. Scraper already can give might and fury on some level so it HAS access to though offensive boons.

 

I know what Anet said about Scrapper. There is no relationship between that statement and the conclusion you made that support classes should have quickness/alacrity boon sharing because of whatever definition you think Anet created for support classes. That's simply something you made up to justify your idea that ele should have that ability. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Balancing costs and gains and arriving at a good combination is definitely not the same as heving everything at no cost. You're shifting goalposts here. Probably because you realized that your original claim had no basis in reality.

Balancing by anet may have a cost on there player base and there standing but they can do any thing they want for balancing.

 

There a cost to max min for an pve fight is up to the player and should not be something about playing the "right class" that why i am for giving more classes these strong boons.

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

I know what Anet said about Scrapper. There is no relationship between that statement and the conclusion you made that support classes have quickness/alacrity boon sharing. That's simply something you made up to justify your idea that ele should have that ability. 

So scraper was not made an support class by anet waiting it to be an support class in this way?

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

So scraper was not made an support class by anet waiting it to be an support class in this way?

Sure .. for scrapper, IN THIS WAY, it's what Anet did to make them a better support class ... but that shouldn't lead you to conclude that Anet defines all support classes to have quickness/alacrity boon sharing. That's absurd. There are LOTS of ways for classes to give offensive team support and NOT have quickness/alacrity boon sharing.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure scrapper was ... but that shouldn't lead you to conclude that Anet defines all support classes to have quickness/alacrity boon sharing. That's absurd. There are LOTS of ways for classes to give offensive team support and NOT have quickness/alacrity boon sharing.

 

it hasn't had access to the offensive boons it needs to be truly valuable as a support role in group PvE content

 

I am at a lost what else i can say to you. What boon dose scraper not have access to to make it truly valuable as an support role in pve group content?

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Jski.6180 said:

 

it hasn't had access to the offensive boons it needs to be truly valuable as a support role in group PvE content

 

I am at a lost what else i can say to you. 

You can't say anything else to me ... because it's absurd to conclude that Anet defines support classes to be quickness/alacrity boon sharing just because they gave Scrapper quickness boon-sharing to enhance their offensive support.  

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

You can't say anything else to me ... because it's absurd to conclude that Anet defines support classes to be quickness/alacrity boon sharing just because they gave Scrapper quickness boon-sharing to enhance their offensive support.  

The class can already give out might and fury so anet dose not feel that enofe to be a truly valuable as a support roll in group pve content. So yes anet thinks support classes needs these boons to be valuable to groups.

[Obtena.7952]

38 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

The class can already give out might and fury so anet dose not feel that enofe to be a truly valuable as a support roll in group pve content. So yes anet thinks support classes needs these boons to be valuable to groups.

No, Anet thinks SCRAPPER needs this boon to be be valuable in a support role in group pve content. That should NOT lead you to conclude the same is true for all classes. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

11 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, Anet thinks SCRAPPER needs this boon to be be valuable in a support role in group pve content. That should NOT lead you to conclude the same is true for all classes. 

Now that seems arbitrary.

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Now that seems arbitrary.

Coming from you, I'm not surprised. I can assure there isn't anything arbitrary about me NOT assuming Anet defines support classes to need quickness/alacrity boon sharing just because they gave Scrapper quickness boon-sharing to enhance their offensive support

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952