Power Creep is Out of Control

[Sobx.1758]

^yeah, I already tried explaining it to him, but he just doesn't seem to understand. Apparently if you can't give 10-man alacrity then you're automatically out of the pve squads, because everyone needs to stack the same buff for a full group of something 🤪

[Jski.6180]

39 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Because being able to dps., and having access to alacrity does not mean you can get everything else as well. Go 10x such class? suddenly you have no quickness, no heal, etc.

Good luck with such a composition.

Or you just play the classes that have healing dps and boons and still have healing boons and dps. There is a very clear problem with some classes having every effect in the game with out giving any thing up for it. There seems to be no relenting from anet to fix this as well so the only real chose is to ask anet for the same treatment for all of the other classes. This is simply the out come of the power creep in this game. To fix the power creep it self would mean taking away a LOT from classes and that could be seen as un-fun.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Or you just play the classes that have healing dps and boons and still have healing boons and dps. There is a very clear problem with some classes having every effect in the game with out giving any thing up for it. There seems to be no relenting from anet to fix this as well

 

Like which classes/builds EXACTLY?

And what would be that great composition where everyone having alacrity access is optimal?

3 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

so the only real chose is to ask anet for the same treatment for all of the other classes. This is simply the out come of the power creep in this game. To fix the power creep it self would mean taking away a LOT from classes and that could be seen as un-fun.

LOL, no. But I see this in the end is all about "buff ele" -again 😁

Edited May 16, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jski.6180]

12 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Like which classes/builds EXACTLY?

And what would be that great composition where everyone having alacrity access is optimal?

FB scorge marz condi builds.

 

Alacrity and quinkness are the path going forward for support in pve it seems. Anet has made a chose here by giving scraper quinkess and marz alacrity they have made a statement that support needs these aggressive boons to be viable. You simply cant add these support effects to non support classes call them support and forget about every other class that has been define as support for years and give them nothing thinking it will work out. For what ever reason this carry over to spvp and wvw so the only thing you can do as a player is point this out and try to get other classes such effects.

 

Lets give druid quinkness lets give "support thf" alacrity lets give tempest alacrity lets even give scorge quikness even though its already got barrier a type of aggressive def that lets you play more aggressive over all in combat.

 

Its all about the power creep added in with the last update and the classes that where missed.

 

"LOL, no. But I see this in the end is all about "buff ele" -again 😁"

 

That cool for you but i am not going to stop asking. Your not an anet dev. you should realize this.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Jski.6180

[Kodama.6453]

@Jski.6180

Anet did not say that a class needs to either have quickness or alacrity to be a viable support.

 

The statement is that you need some kind of offensive buff for the party to contribute to the overall damage.

Druid is a prime example to show that alacrity and quickness are not the only ways to achieve that.

 

Druid can keep up 25 stacks might by themselves as well as  it has access to several unique offensive buffs for the party (frost spirit, sun spirit, spotter).

That's why druid already is a highly desirable support in PvE. It doesn't need alacrity or quickness, it is already a great support.

 

Scrapper on the other hand had nothing in terms of offensive buffs.

Scrapper can't give 25 might to the team. The only unique buff the class has is pinpoint distribution, which is located on a dps trait line, meaning that they can't get access to it without extremely gimping their supportive qualities.

 

Giving them one of the major offensive boons (alacrity or quickness) was just a simple solution for them to give the class a desirable offensive boon to make it viable. It is just easier to implement than making up another unique buff which would actually be desired by a squad.

 

Quickness also was a natural fit for scrapper thematically, since it was already established in the scrapper trait line (applied force) and also feeds into their thematic of "using momentum to hit harder".

[Jski.6180]

9 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

@Jski.6180

Anet did not say that a class needs to either have quickness or alacrity to be a viable support.

 

The statement is that you need some kind of offensive buff for the party to contribute to the overall damage.

Druid is a prime example to show that alacrity and quickness are not the only ways to achieve that.

 

Druid can keep up 25 stacks might by themselves as well as  it has access to several unique offensive buffs for the party (frost spirit, sun spirit, spotter).

That's why druid already is a highly desirable support in PvE. It doesn't need alacrity or quickness, it is already a great support.

 

Scrapper on the other hand had nothing in terms of offensive buffs.

Scrapper can't give 25 might to the team. The only unique buff the class has is pinpoint distribution, which is located on a dps trait line, meaning that they can't get access to it without extremely gimping their supportive qualities.

 

Giving them one of the major offensive boons (alacrity or quickness) was just a simple solution for them to give the class a desirable offensive boon to make it viable. It is just easier to implement than making up another unique buff which would actually be desired by a squad.

 

Quickness also was a natural fit for scrapper thematically, since it was already established in the scrapper trait line (applied force) and also feeds into their thematic of "using momentum to hit harder".

But that is what they did though there action and more then likely going forward that will be a requirement to being an support class. They could of early gave scraper more might and more fury but they chose quinkness to make it more usable as an support. Merz no one saw coming but giving it 10 target alacrity and might shows us that anet wants there support classes need more then just might and fury to be viable for support.

 

The way the game runes now might is not hard to get and for the most part fury is not hard to get as well. The only thing that holding back support classes now is the lack of these boons to be on part with the newer power creeped support clasess.

 

I am not sure why quinkness needs to be thematically for a classes as you have quinkness on sigil and on many classes that have nothing to do with "time." Even alacrity is kind of silly to keep thematically as they given it to marz but mostly took it away from chron the "time" class. That and you can make the argument that time magic has nothing to do with attking faster to getting your cd faster much like might is not a fire only effect but all over the places for magic types as well as protection is not an earthly only thing as its also all over. Very much a side note but the boons them self have no thematically to them but the means how the class apply them are or you need to remove boons from a lot of classes that dont fit there magic type.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

FB scorge marz condi builds.

 

Alacrity and quinkness are the path going forward for support in pve it seems. Anet has made a chose here by giving scraper quinkess and marz alacrity they have made a statement that support needs these aggressive boons to be viable. You simply cant add these support effects to non support classes call them support and forget about every other class that has been define as support for years and give them nothing thinking it will work out. For what ever reason this carry over to spvp and wvw so the only thing you can do as a player is point this out and try to get other classes such effects.

 

Lets give druid quinkness lets give "support thf" alacrity lets give tempest alacrity lets even give scorge quikness even though its already got barrier a type of aggressive def that lets you play more aggressive over all in combat.

 

Its all about the power creep added in with the last update and the classes that where missed.

What's a marz?

 

I mean if there's a build like the current perma 25might, ala, full dps condi mirage then the response here is to nerf those builds, not add more of them to the game. The point stands that no group needs everyone to provide same buffs because it makes no sense and as such "you get that buff or you're not viable" still is nonsense in most cases.

 

Quote

"LOL, no. But I see this in the end is all about "buff ele" -again 😁"

 

That cool for you but i am not going to stop asking. Your not an anet dev. you should realize this.

Me not being anet is irrelevant, not sure why you even mention anything like that. Not sure if you noticed, but I'll keep pointing out when you make no sense simply for the sake of screaming "buff me!", which is all you were doing in your last xx posts.

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jski.6180]

8 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What's a marz?

 

I mean if there's a build like the current perma 25might, ala, full dps condi mirage then the response here is to nerf those builds, not add more of them to the game. The point stands that no group needs everyone to provide same buffs because it makes no sense and as such "you get that buff or you're not viable" still is nonsense in most cases.

 

Me not being anet is irrelevant, not sure why you even mention anything like that. Not sure if you noticed, but I'll keep pointing out when you make no sense simply for the sake of screaming "buff me!", which is all you were doing in your last xx posts.

 

 

 

That is the build and it seems to be what anet wanted to do. I am not sure if they could not see it being perma might and alacrity but that is what going on. You would have to do significant nerfs to fix the current state of the game to bring ti back to "normal" support levels and i do not think anet has it in them. They would have to destroy FB something we all know they will not do. So i chose working with what anet is showing us right now and that is power creep. The only thing we can ask for is that power creep to be shared to all of the support classes that lack this power creep.

 

It is very important because your giving blunt response to points of views. As if your gate keeping for anet. The squeeke wheel gets fixed is a good staying here and the screaming "buff me!" is the squeek. Stop telling ppl not to squeek! Your not an anet dev.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Jski.6180

[Sobx.1758]

13 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

You would have to do significant nerfs to fix the current state of the game to bring ti back to "normal" support levels

I don't see the problem with that.

13 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

and i do not think anet has it in them.

You're free to think that, but in the end that doesn't change anything.

13 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

They would have to destroy FB something we all know they will not do.

Don't think they'd need to "destroy" it.

13 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

So i chose working with what anet is showing us right now and that is power creep. The only thing we can ask for is that power creep to be shared to all of the support classes that lack this power creep.

 

It is very important because your giving blunt response to points of views. As if your gate keeping for anet. The squeeke wheel gets fixed is a good staying here and the screaming "buff me!" is the squeek. Stop telling ppl not to squeek! Your not an anet dev.

"blunt response to point of views"? What do you even mean? The only "point of view" that's consistently seen in your last xx posts is "buff the only class I play", which is worthless in any actual discussion, because you don't hold a specific opinion in regards of any given thread, but instead revert into "whatever, just buff me". It wouldn't be a huge problem to me if you didn't try to deceive "the average reader" by comming up with pseudo-justification like -to get the latest example- the one in your last post, where you claim "this is what arena net seems to want, so buff my class". Meanwhile your ACTUAL OPINION here is "I don't care, just buff my class" and that's your ACTUAL OPINION in any other thread from what I've seen lately.

 

How am I "gate keeping for anet"?

 

I you want to use that analogy then the squeeky wheel here is the overperforming build that does too much (or everything), you're not "fixing the squeeky wheel", you decide that you want your class to join the squeeky wheel party and you're ready to sacrifice everything on the way to get there, including turning everything into broken kitten. Want to fix the squeeky wheel, then keep crying about overperfoming builds instead of crying about not enough overperforming builds. (inb4 "if everything is overperforming then nothing is", which is just false and shortsighted considering everything works in a given, already existing environment and not in a seperate build/class bubble irrelevant of the content it's being used in)

 

And once more, me not being anet dev has nothing to do with anything being said here, what point are you trying to make by typing this out again?

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

I don't see the problem with that.

You're free to think that, but in the end that doesn't change anything.

Don't think they'd need to "destroy" it.

"blunt response to point of views"? What do you even mean? The only "point of view" that's consistently seen in your last xx posts is "buff the only class I play", which is worthless in any actual discussion, because you don't hold a specific opinion in regards of any given thread, but instead revert into "whatever, just buff me". It wouldn't be a huge problem to me if you didn't try to deceive "the average reader" by comming up with pseudo-justification like -to get the latest example- the one in your last post, where you claim "this is what arena net seems to want, so buff my class". Meanwhile your ACTUAL OPINION here is "I don't care, just buff my class" and that's your ACTUAL OPINION in any other thread from what I've seen lately.

 

How am I "gate keeping for anet"?

 

I you want to use that analogy then the squeeky wheel here is the overperforming build that does too much (or everything), you're not "fixing the squeeky wheel", you decide that you want your class to join the squeeky wheel party and you're ready to sacrifice everything on the way to get there, including turning everything into broken kitten. Want to fix the squeeky wheel, then keep crying about overperfoming builds instead of crying about not enough overperforming builds. (inb4 "if everything is overperforming then nothing is", which is just false and shortsighted considering everything works in a given, already existing environment and not in a seperate build/class bubble irrelevant of the content it's being used in)

 

And once more, me not being anet dev has nothing to do with anything being said here, what point are you trying to make by typing this out again?

If you dont think anet will destroy FB then asking for power creep for every other support class is the only way.

 

Your not an anet dev. all i need to say.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

If you dont think anet will destroy FB then asking for power creep for every other support class is the only way.

I said I don't think they'd need to "destroy" it, because "destroying" would suggest making it unplayable. It has nothing to do with you trying to tell me I somehow "don't think anet will destroy fb", try understanding what you read, otherwise answering to something you made up is kind of pointless.

So no, "asking for powercreep" is still not the only way.

 

3 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Your not an anet dev. all i need to say.

You actually didn't respond to ANYTHING in my post, this is hilarious, good job 🙄

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I said I don't think they'd need to "destroy" it, because "destroying" would suggest making it unplayable. It has nothing to do with you trying to tell me I somehow "don't think anet will destroy fb", try understanding what you read, otherwise answering to something you made up is kind of pointless.

So no, "asking for powercreep" is still not the only way.

 

You actually didn't respond to ANYTHING in my post, this is hilarious, good job 🙄

You would have to remove soo much from the FB class maybe even the gurd class over all to make other support classes as viable. Its better to just ask for them to add to lesser support classes to bring them up.

 

I do not have to respond to any thing and that you feel you need a responds show that you need to be reminded that your not an anet dev. I find the prison attks more of means to bog down the chat about balancing and power creep so that how i see such things and why i do not response to them.

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

For a class to be a support now you need to have aggressive boons and it seems thoughts boons are alacrity or quinkess. 

That's a completely contrived conclusion. Again .. you are willing to say anything to get what you want, even if it's not true or doesn't make sense. I think in this case, it's both.  

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Virdo.1540]

On 5/14/2021 at 6:50 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

My favorite part is Mirage staff ambush. 

 

"Hey we made this skill super powerful now" 

 

..."Oh btw you still only have one dodge have fun facetanking at least you got alacrity now!"

 

 

 

 

 

well its not like they dodge less. its only an half dodge bar, so the endurance generation should be untouched.

[Obtena.7952]

9 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

He was desperately trying to prevent scrapper from getting quickness before the update and since it didn't work he just shifted to wanting elementalist to get alacrity it seems.

Yeah, envy is a powerful feeling but typically does not lead to a logical conclusion. None of his ideas work because they lack a fundamental understanding of why Anet makes changes and they also a lack of willingness to understand the changes as well. Not a good mix.

 

They just assume the changes are wrong because it's not what they want. It's absurd to claim ele needs quickness and/or alacrity boon sharing because it's not a proper support class without them ... because obviously how he defines what a proper support class is relevant right?  That's nonsense. 

 

At least it's better than the "Hey, that class has it, so I should have it" we were getting before ... but not by much. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

14 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's a completely contrived conclusion. Again .. you are willing to say anything to get what you want, even if it's not true or doesn't make sense. I think in this case, it's both.  

This is what anet wants for support classes or you would see scraper only get might on super speed or merz get fury on its staff skill.

[Obtena.7952]

13 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

This is what anet wants for support classes or you would see scraper only get might on super speed or merz get fury on its staff skill.

No, you don't know how Anet defines 'support' classes and you can't conclude that Anet wants all support classes to have ala/quickness boon sharing. That's more absurdity.  I mean, it's funny you accuse other people of not being Anet devs ... but then you say something like this that only an Anet dev would actually know is true or not ... maybe you need to take a rest here. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

No, you don't know how Anet defines 'support' classes and you can't conclude that Anet wants all support classes to have ala/quickness boon sharing. That's more absurdity. 

They called scraper an support only due to its use in wvw but not used in pve so they felt there was a need to give it quickness. If anet did not feel an support class did not need quinkness then they could of given scraper might fury any number of boons to make it in there mind an support class in pve but they gave it quinkness. As scraper lacks any of the other boons in a large amount anet could of given them cap might or perma fury and called them an support but that not what happen.

 

You realy need to stop talking about the person talking and more about the ideal. I have no ideal about what anet is thinking but nor do you. We can only guess what going on and deal with what we have in-front of us. Anet made a chose for support and as far as we know this is the way support is going from here on out. This is the power creep they added to the game but not to all of the support classes so there room to ask for it to carry over to the other support classes.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

I have no ideal about what anet is thinking 

Clearly, yet you still make statements that indicate you know Anet's definition of support class and that definition means support classes should all have alacrity/quickness boon sharing. I guess contradicting yourself isn't out of the question for you as long as it means you can double talk your way around people's critical assessment of your posts. 

 

I don't need to know what Anet is thinking to know that your contrived ideas about why ele should get alacrity/quickness boon-sharing don't make sense. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Clearly, yet you still make statements about how you know Anet's definition of support class and how all support classes are getting alacrity./quickness boon sharing

 

I don't need to know what Anet is thinking to know that your contrived ideas about why ele should get alacrity/quickness boon-sharing don't make sense. 

It made no reason for scraper to get quickness and marz to get alacrity. I am not going to question the power creep it self other then that anet felt they needed to add it to these classes.

 

I am not sure why you cant add these effect to other classes who do not have it why are these boons only for these current classes its on? Lets remove ele form this why cant durid or support thf have these boons for support?

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

I am not sure why you cant add these effect to other classes who do not have it why are these boons only for these current classes its on? Lets remove ele form this why cant durid or support thf have these boons for support?

Well, it's not a prerequisite that you understand why Anet does things to 'approve' of their changes or not ... You simply aren't willing to accept there is a reason for it, even if you don't know it. It's not really that hard to understand why one class gets a thing and another doesn't. I think it's pretty obvious. If a thing doesn't fit the theme of the class, it's not likely to get that thing. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, it's not that you don't understand ... it's that you aren't willing to accept the reasons you have been given. If it doesn't fit the theme of the class, it's not likely to get it. 

But what is quickness and alacrity theme you find these effects all over the places as is i am sure they are not theme as boons but how they are applied. Scraper is applying though super speed (it realty should be though wells or lighting fields) but that has nothing to do with quickness it self but the theme of the class. Even ele has some quickness but its very very limented and non supported. What about that tells you about quickness as a theme boon?

[Kodama.6453]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

It made no reason for scraper to get quickness and marz to get alacrity. I am not going to question the power creep it self other then that anet felt they needed to add it to these classes.

 

I am not sure why you cant add these effect to other classes who do not have it why are these boons only for these current classes its on? Lets remove ele form this why cant durid or support thf have these boons for support?

Druid is already one of the very best supports in the game without these boons!

 

It does not need quickness, since it has really potent group buffs thanks to frost spirit, sun spirit and spotter.

That's why it doesn't get quickness.

 

Why don't you get it? Quickness and alacrity are not the only strong buffs in this game!

 

Oh and btw, thief does have access to quickness and other powerful buffs.

You should look up stolen skills from raid bosses/strike bosses.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

What about that tells you about quickness as a theme boon?

Nothing ... a boon isn't a theme. That's like asking what sound is blue. That question doesn't make sense. Classes have themes, not boons. 

 

I can't even tell you what the class definitions actually are except based on my personal interpretation from playing them ... but I can tell you that in some form, those definitions exist and they determine what things a class gets and doesn't get ... even if we don't know them. 

 

I get you want to make this an argument with me, but the fact is that it's irrelevant if we know what the class theme is or not and there isn't any argument to be had why ele doesn't have ala/quickness boon-sharing ... the answer is as simple as "because Anet doesn't think it's appropriate for ele to have it". 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Druid is already one of the very best supports in the game without these boons!

 

It does not need quickness, since it has really potent group buffs thanks to frost spirit, sun spirit and spotter.

That's why it doesn't get quickness.

 

Why don't you get it? Quickness and alacrity are not the only strong buffs in this game!

 

Oh and btw, thief does have access to quickness and other powerful buffs.

You should look up stolen skills from raid bosses/strike bosses.

In one game type?

 

The way gw2 is balanced has a lot to do with cd and cast times so boons that effect these things are the strongest effects in the game.

 

Thf cant use them as support even ele has quickness but self only and very limanted.