Power Creep is Out of Control

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Nothing ... a boon isn't a theme. That's like asking what sound is blue. That question doesn't make sense. Classes have themes, not boons. 

 

I can't even tell you what the class definitions actually are except based on my personal interpretation from playing them ... but I can tell you that in some form, those definitions exist and they determine what things a class gets and doesn't get ... even if we don't know them. 

Being ablet to cast spell faster or being able to use spells on cd faster seems like a normal thing all classes have. How can that be called a theme?

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Or you just play the classes that have healing dps and boons and still have healing boons and dps. There is a very clear problem with some classes having every effect in the game with out giving any thing up for it.

There's no such class at the moment. In fact, i don't think there ever was. The closest was probably the infamous chaos chrono, and some of the Firebrand builds, but not even those ever had access to everything without having to give up something in exchange.

 

Chaos chrono could give out practically all boons, but had no healing, and its dps was also heavily lacking to say the least. FB doesn't have full boon coverage (i.e. it lacks access to alacrity), and out of dps, heal and support can do at best two at the same time (and can't really reach its full dps potential in dual role mode). Scourge has no quickness and alacrity (and cannot both heal and dps). The new alacrity mirage lacks heal and quickness (and some boons it can give are purely theoretical, because they depend on staff bounce, so can't really be given to the whole squad).

None of these builds can replace ranger spirits or warrior banners. Warriors can't heal or give out most boons (including the critical alac and quickness ones). Druid can heal, and give out some boons, but not quickness or alac (nor can it dps). DPS ranger builds are even worse at buffing others, cannot heal, and take a significant dps hit for having to take spirits.

And so on, and so on.

 

If you disagree, please, do point out that build i missed that has access to everything.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Being ablet to cast spell faster or being able to use spells on cd faster seems like a normal thing all classes have. How can that be called a theme?

That question doesn't make sense; I'm not claiming that casting is faster seems like a normal thing that all classes have so it can't be called a theme.

 

Classes have some definition that determines what they get and don't get. What to you seems to be normal or not is irrelevant to that. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

There's no such class at the moment. In fact, i don't think there ever was. The closest was probably the infamous chaos chrono, and some of the Firebrand builds, but not even those ever had access to everything without having to give up something in exchange.

 

 

 

Chaos chrono could give out practically all boons, but had no healing, and its dps was also heavily lacking to say the least. FB doesn't have full boon coverage (i.e. it lacks access to alacrity), and out of dps, heal and support can do at best two at the same time (and can't really reach its full dps potential in dual role mode). Scourge has no quickness and alacrity. The new alacrity mirage lacks heal and quickness (and some boons it can give are purely theoretical, because they depend on staff bounce, so can't really be given to the whole squad).

None of these builds can replace ranger spirits or warrior banners. Warriors can't heal or give out most boons (including the critical alac and quickness ones). Druid can heal, and give out some boons, but not quickness or alac (nor can it dps). DPS ranger builds are even worse at buffing others, cannot heal, and take a significant dps hit for having to take spirits.

And so on, and so on.

 

If you disagree, please, do point out that build i missed that has access to everything.

 

 

We are not talking about every boon and i am not asking for all of the boons even on ele just the power creeped boons of quinkess and alacrity. There are classes who have one of these boons and fill an dps roll.

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't get your question. Classes have some definition that determines what they get and don't get. What to you seems to be normal or not is irrelevant to that. 

That these boons "brake" the point of balancing in gw2. CD is the mana of gw2 that keeps skill in balanced and from being spammed. Effects like quinkess letting ppl cast faster get away from cast times. Effects like alacrity brake the cd of down time between skills (its worst when the alacrity skill hits the skill that is giving the alacrity making a loop of cdr.

 

That why they are the strongest boons in the game and to only give them to a hand full of classes is both a power creep of the game over all and is nerf to classes with out.

[Kodama.6453]

13 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

In one game type?

 

The way gw2 is balanced has a lot to do with cd and cast times so boons that effect these things are the strongest effects in the game.

 

Thf cant use them as support even ele has quickness but self only and very limanted.

They clearly made these changes around PvE. They wanted to make classes good PvE supports and nothing else.

 

And thief can use it as support. My god, look up stolen skills. 

 

Time in a bottle is a skill which gives both alacrity and quickness to 10 surrounding allies.

Detonate plasma is a skill that grants all boons except alacrity to 10 surrounding allies (so including quickness).

 

Boon thief has been a viable build for boon support in these encounters. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

We are not talking about every boon and i am not asking for all of the boons even on ele just the power creeped boons of quinkess and alacrity. There are classes who have one of these boons and fill an dps roll.

Well, you were talking about every boon (and more).

 

2 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

There is a very clear problem with some classes having every effect in the game with out giving any thing up for it.

So, please, do tell me, what are those "some classes" that can "have every effect in the game with out giving any thing up for it"? Because i don't see even one.

 

No class can have "every effect in the game", and for what they do have, they have to give up something for it.

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

They clearly made these changes around PvE. They wanted to make classes good PvE supports and nothing else.

 

And thief can use it as support. My god, look up stolen skills. 

 

Time in a bottle is a skill which gives both alacrity and quickness to 10 surrounding allies.

Detonate plasma is a skill that grants all bosons except alacrity to 10 surrounding allies (so including quickness).

 

Boon thief has been a viable build for boon support in these encounters. 

It carried over to wvw and spvp so its not important the point of the balance but how it effects the same over all.

 

I guess there is that for thf but how reliable is it? Maybe we can ask for a QOL for support thf then to chose what they steal and what the steal can do lol.

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Jski.6180 said:

That these boons "brake" the point of balancing in gw2. CD is the mana of gw2 that keeps skill in balanced and from being spammed. Effects like quinkess letting ppl cast faster get away from cast times. Effects like alacrity brake the cd of down time between skills (its worst when the alacrity skill hits the skill that is giving the alacrity making a loop of cdr.

 

That why they are the strongest boons in the game and to only give them to a hand full of classes is both a power creep of the game over all and is nerf to classes with out.

That doesn't change ANYTHING I have said so far. Whether you think these abilities break the game or not has NOTHING to do who you think should have those abilities. In fact, the claim you make that they break balancing in GW2 only further magnifies how absurd the idea is that ele get those abilities. 

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, you were talking about every boon (and more).

 

So, please, do tell me, what are those "some classes" that can "have every effect in the game with out giving any thing up for it"? Because i don't see even one.

 

No class can have "every effect in the game", and for what they do have, they have to give up something for it.

That IS the ideal balancing behind ele being able to do every thing in the game (but not realty).

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Jski.6180 said:

That IS the ideal balancing behind ele being able to do every thing in the game (but not realty).

No, that's just your contrived idea of what it should be. That's clearly not what Anet intends for the class. 

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't change ANYTHING I have said so far. Whether you think these abilities break the game or not has NOTHING to do who you think should have those abilities. In fact, the claim you make that they break balancing in GW2 only further magnifies how absurd the idea is that ele get those abilities. 

If every one feels they need these boons and will often only bring classes who have these boons i am not sure how being with out these boons "fixes" the games. It seems to me its more of making haves and have nots.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

That IS the ideal balancing behind ele being able to do every thing in the game (but not realty).

That does not asnwer my question. Again, what are those mythical classes you claim can do everything at once at no cost?

 

Also, notice, that at the moment there's no class that truly can do everything. Why would we want to introduce one now?

Edited May 16, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Jski.6180 said:

If every one feels they need these boons and will often only bring classes who have these boons i am not sure how being with out these boons "fixes" the games. It seems to me its more of making haves and have nots.

Except not everyone feels or plays that way ... so you are wrong. Again, if you choose to play that way, that's not a problem Anet needs to fix ... just make different choices. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

No, that's just your contrived idea of what it should be. That's clearly not what Anet intends for the class. 

I do not understand ele has been balanced in that way for years now they intend. Its like you forgot every thing added to this game over the last 8 years lol.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

I do not understand ele has been balanced in that way for years now they intend. Its like you forgot every thing added to this game over the last 8 years lol.

That doesn't make sense ... ele has NOT been balanced in a way that they can do everything ever that justifies your idea they should have whatever boons you think they should. They have a theme just like every other class. You don't even understand the class you play. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That does not asnwer my question. Again, what are those mythical classes you claim can do everything at once at no cost?

 

Also, notice, that at the moment there's no class that truly can do everything. Why would we want to introduce one now?

FB can dps heal and give boons. Scorges can dps give boons (sadly not the strong ones) and give barrier (in some whats that is a strong boon) as well as heal on some level. Marz can dps heal and give strong boons. Even scraper to a point can dps (all be it weeker then most) give strog boons and heal. Every class in the game can dps but not every class can give strong boons.

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't make sense ... ele has NOT been balanced in a way that they can do everything ever. They have a theme just like every other class. You don't even understand the class you play. 

Seeing how you know the ele class what is is balanced for? Just being able to say what its not being balanced for means you understand the class.

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, Jski.6180 said:

FB can dps heal and give boons. Scorges can dps give boons (sadly not the strong ones) and give barrier (in some whats that is a strong boon) as well as heal on some level. Marz can dps heal and give strong boons. Even scraper to a point can dps (all be it weeker then most) give strog boons and heal. Every class in the game can dps but not every class can give strong boons.

I gave those examples in my original post. I also clearly mentioned what each of those builds had to sacrifice for it. So, again, where's that example that can do everything at once at no cost? Because you're not giving me one.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

Seeing how you know the ele class what is is balanced for? Just being able to say what its not being balanced for means you understand the class.

I know it's not balanced to be everything so it should have whatever abilities you think it should have. Anet determines the class definition, not you. For someone that admits they don't know what Anet is thinking ... you sure got lots of insight to what you think they do. #contradictions

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Except not everyone feels or plays that way ... so you are wrong. Again, if you choose to play that way, that's not a problem Anet needs to fix ... just make different choices. 

But you should be able to chose to have it. That the thing and where all of this started even from you about being able to choose to use an effect or skill. This is missing from a lot of classes but it was added to classes who lacked it before. That is power creep and its not good for the game to only power creep a few classes in the game.

 

 

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I gave those examples in my original post. I also clearly mentioned what each of those builds had to sacrifice for it. So, again, where's that example that can do everything at once at no cost? Because you're not giving me one.

No cost i am confused once you hit the bench mark of an fight dps and healing what is the point of going above and beyond that?

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Jski.6180 said:

But you should be able to chose to have it. That the thing and where all of this started even from you about being able to choose to use an effect or skill. This is missing from a lot of classes but it was added to classes who lacked it before. That is power creep and its not good for the game to only power creep a few classes in the game.

 

 

That doesn't make sense ... players don't get to choose what skills your class has. But there are other choices you have so you don't need them and can play how you want. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I know it's not balanced to be everything so it should have whatever abilities you think it should have. Anet determines the class definition, not you. For someone that admits they don't know what Anet is thinking ... you sure got lots of insight to what you think they do. #contradictions

And anet defind it that support classes should get aggressive boons like quinkess and alacrity.

[Jski.6180]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't make sense ... players don't get to choose what skills your class has. 

That what elite spec are.