Is there chance for fix or it's going to stay that way ? warrior vs conditions!

[Luna.6203]

When it comes to direct damage warrior is ok. Prolly not top but not worst. its balanced right..

When it comes to condition damage warrior is F* completely.

 

i found there recent post about warrior vs condi weaver. I remember i made post about that year ago. it only gets worse since than. btw i still remember times where 50% pvp players were condition mirage.

 

But now!

healing signed -> useless. (except passive bonus)
berserker stance -> useless.
featherfoot grade -> useless.

if revenge counter was bad trail because of all full counter dmg nerfs -> 20% damage increase from nothing is still nothing. New resistance change killed last usefull effect in that trait. But we are supposed to use magebane chain anyway so who cares right ?

if you swap/change effect on certain boons. You might revisit skills with that effect and maybe rework them so they do something similar ?! Why don't we have access to new 35% condition dmg reduction instead of immunity. it's still nerf but at least something.. better than nothing. Why skills that gave use condition immunity(resistance) before dont give us at least resolution or condi. clean instead?

 

I don't understand why almost nobody talks about it. All i see is berserker and rifle. but spellbreaker used to be good/enjoyable pvp spec. it still is but when you face heavy condition pressure.. it's just hopeless.

 

i'm really wonder if you are going to address this or not ? you literally broke main warrior pvp utilities. Do you care ? Cuz if not . i mean i can reroll or not play right..
BUT
i can't imagine being developer, fundamentally broken something and ignore it.

 

Or am i wrong ?! im F n00b that missing something ? i'm open to suggestions from fellow warriors. just keep on mind im 100% fine when i face power based enemies. But conditions ? WHAT THE **** IM SUPPOSED TO DO ?! well shake it off still works right? but that not enough and it takes long time to recharge and often time i jump from one fight to another and cooldown is on and now what ?! im dead..

 

I'm sorry for rant but when i enter arena. it's like ohh there are condition based. OK im dead better luck next time. I'm like paper. i can fight rock! so condition is scissors? NO condition is like lighter! i just disappear in flame on contact.

 

Please tell me. Do you plan to rework these skills or you'll let them rot amongst many other useless warrior skills ?

 

 

[nthmetal.9652]

10 minutes ago, Luna.6203 said:

i can't imagine being developer, fundamentally broken something and ignore it.

Welcome to GW2 (though I am not convinced other MMOs really do this better). In February last year, we had massive nerfs on WvW warrior due to:

- passively triggering traits in the defense traitline on 300s cooldown

- massive damage loss due to CC

- no adaption of any traits to address these changes - like for example Strength traitline Hammer trait still increases damage on hammer. Very useful, if your weapon does next to do damage thanks to high levels of CC.

 

Then we were additionally hit by double-bubble-nerf by reducing the number of targets and additionally halving the number of pulses. 

 

But there are more things broken about warrior. For a profession that is basically forced to go into melee, if you want to do anything (becase rifle and longbow still suck, thanks to the massive amounts of reflect and block in zerg context), you have no reliable source of big stab (only Dolyak Signet comes to mind, anything else gives just one or two stacks, not enough to keep you moving), you have no meaningful access to protection, nothing to keep you save from conditions for a limited amount of time - hell, your access to resolution even comes from hardened armor and one meditation on a 35s cooldown.

And even if you build around cleanses, you clearly don't have enough. Now if all that was counterbalanced by big damage at least, that would have been something, but even that isn't there.

 

Now, I know there are ways you can build for big damage, but that also mean you basically do NOTHING else anymore. Not very useful. Unlike Scourge for example. True, might not be the biggest amount of damage, that probably goes to weaver and rev, but while scourge applies damage, they also corrupt boon, chill or fear people, provide area denial, and all of that at range - and not physical projectile blockable / reflectable range stuff, but with nice AoEs.

 

So, yes, there are things fundamentally broken, and it's way more than the things you might be facing as A PvPer. And yes, these things can stay broken for months. For years.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

You CAN build a tanky character that deals respectable damage in WvW. But with the Resistance/Resolution Changes it can be rough still versus condi.

 

Spend some time in the Build Editor and tweak things on your build, but remember that there is more leeway for a functional WvW build than there is for a PvP build at the moment. You can blame the lazy mentality that the balance team has with removing gear from PvP rather than actually nerfing overperforming specs for that fiasco.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 hour ago, Luna.6203 said:

I don't understand why almost nobody talks about it. All i see is berserker and rifle. but spellbreaker used to be good/enjoyable pvp spec. it still is but when you face heavy condition pressure.. it's just hopeless.

That's because Spellbreaker > Core > Berserker in terms of sustain.

 

Every warrior knows that. I mean, since it's introduction Spellbreaker has been the go to due to Full Counter, boonrip and the Tether, a valuable warrior skill which forces an enemy to fight you on melee.

 

Couple that with the fact that Spellbreaker itself rn has the greatest condi denial of all specs (may be small, but Imminent Threat does almost double your chances of survival against condi dmg, unlike Warrior or Berserker) made it ideal for any play warrior saw some participation in.

 

So to me, who I have already grinded Spellbreaker and want to focus on Core and Zerker more (due to the fun gameplay), I prefer a "buff" to those specs (more T2 and T3 burst/adrenaline consumption synergies, which buff Core but not the superior Spellbreaker, or changes to Berserker for better gameplay).

 

Basically this meta is difficult for spellbreaker, but the real issue is that it severy guts Berserker and Warrior. 

[Aaron.1294]

Anet seems to be unable to even see old skills getting more and more worthless, buggy, sometimes I even wonder why they exist in the 1st place? And lemme clarify I don't think it's problem is associated with CCs dealing no dmg, bcuz we still deal a big chunk of it. But the amount of buggy, worthless and troublesome skills is too overwhelming. We literally got no changes for our weapons for 7 years even tho we are "supposed" to be weapon masters yet they're feeling clunky and old. And to think Anet had the audacity to rework shortbow and sword on revenant . Cool

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Aaron.1294

[nthmetal.9652]

29 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Couple that with the fact that Spellbreaker itself rn has the greatest condi denial of all specs (may be small, but Imminent Threat does almost double your chances of survival against condi dmg, unlike Warrior or Berserker) made it ideal for any play warrior saw some participation in.

Errrm, what about Guardian / Firebrand, with their virtues trait? Or do you mean as a combination of cleanses and resolution? In either way, I find that kind of iffy, to argue like that. Or do you mean purely in PvP?
I'd say, the greatest condi denial of all specs, regardless of gamemode still comes from scrapper, thanks to the amount of conversion. Scrappers are still basically what keeps a whole zerg alive in WvW. No amount of spellbreakers will do that. And against condi-heavy enemies I doubt that Imminent Threat, even paired with Hardened Armor, and shake it off AND the shrug it off trait from discipline, is going to help you much against conditions.

[Aaron.1294]

@nthmetal.9652 u forgot about mending

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Just now, nthmetal.9652 said:

Errrm, what about Guardian / Firebrand, with their virtues trait? Or do you mean as a combination of cleanses and resolution? In either way, I find that kind of iffy, to argue like that. Or do you mean purely in PvP?
I'd say, the greatest condi denial of all specs, regardless of gamemode still comes from scrapper, thanks to the amount of conversion. Scrappers are still basically what keeps a whole zerg alive in WvW. No amount of spellbreakers will do that. And against condi-heavy enemies I doubt that Imminent Threat, even paired with Hardened Armor, and shake it off AND the shrug it off trait from discipline, is going to help you much against conditions.

Yeah I was referring to Warrior specs only. Sorry if I didn't clarify it as needed.

 

The additional Resolution in Imminent Threat may not help per se, but it's still a second soucre of resolution, one that imo, should have been present in Core to promote more flavor in gameplay and buildcraft. Warrior has a lot of burst cleansing potential, but due to us staying melee and usually eating the full application of wells, close range abilities like shatters, virtues or fields, a constant denial of conditions, rather than removal of them is where we lean the most. In which case, Spellbreaker denying all that with Full Counter (+Revenge Counter, although it has been nerfed now) has been a detrimental issue for any warrior buffs regarding condi cleanse/resistance (hah the irony).

 

I doubt these changes will go. I just hope Anet sells their new warrior espec well, or else no expac money from me.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

You know what warrior needs?

 

Gain might when struck, 0 ICD. Slap it into Defense somewhere, probably Defy Pain's Slot.

 

You know what warrior also needs?

 

Gain Resolution when activating a burst. Not on hit. On activation. Slap that into Defense as well, I vote Hardened Armor in addition to its current effects.

[Infusion.7149]

49 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You know what warrior needs?

 

Gain might when struck, 0 ICD. Slap it into Defense somewhere, probably Defy Pain's Slot.

 

You know what warrior also needs?

 

Gain Resolution when activating a burst. Not on hit. On activation. Slap that into Defense as well, I vote Hardened Armor in addition to its current effects.

Lol that would be a cool hot idea for Berserker : gets "angrier" and more might when hit. That would definitely help a bit with its viability in competitive.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

43 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Lol that would be a cool hot idea for Berserker : gets "angrier" and more might when hit. That would definitely help a bit with its viability in competitive.

Nah. That is definitely a defense thing, so put it into defense. Though I can see the theme working with Berserker as well.

[Luna.6203]

I definitely agree that spellbreaker can be tanky and pull decent damage. 1st problem is when you fight someone also tanky with heals and barriers. But its tanky vs tanky... draw fight. Its okay/fair enough. This is for power damage. Where you are tanky so it's not problem chase people a bit with clunky movement skills since you can sustain it and block/counter/dodge. no problem there. well still compare tanky weaver and tanky spellbreaker.. no comment.. not point of this topic anyway. plus skilled weavers are rare and in that case they are better than me anyway i guess.

 

But when it comes to condition damage. you have low damage and no resistance. You are at position where you have to chase target to melee range with poor damage and absolutely no defence against condition damage. Before patch it was still unpromising fight. few second of condition resistance and push with poor damage and CC as best as you can, dodge crap.. one mistake and poof! you gone. But okay i had some utilities i messed up and loose/ or won ?.. great.

 

Now i don't really understand what makes spellbreaker tanky against condition. Pls show me build or related skills i don't see any. you went from few skills with few sec immunity to 0 skills. And here is problem. Whats the point of these skills now ? what the benefit to choose these skills ? ignore non-damage effect ? Why ? Why would you chose that over skills that just remove conditions like you could before and with berserker stance and heal signet to suppress condition damage. Its gone and not even 35% replacement have been added. You have nothing now.. zero.

 

So question is same. why skills that supposed to suppress condition damage does not doing that anymore not even by 35%.

BTW. Would you use any of these skills now ? would you activate healing signed now ? Would you use one of your utility slot for berserker stance? i dont even talk about others cuz they were underperforming before.

 

Just adjust skills that gave us resistance before to something similar or something else but something usefull. Dont let these skills rot as useless garbage in already huge arsenal of other warrior's useless skills.

 

bit off topic:

I like warrior in pve still. i like some changes like brave stride, i know peak performance still rulez but for open world, story, exploring/farming. i like brave stride a lot it's just convenient. And i like warrior in pvp until i'm taking S* amount of condition damage and there is nothing to press. So i open my build and there is nothing to choose to fix that. 8( i just don't understand how you can play warrior in competitive pvp now. Most of warriors that i met in pvp were horrible. no offence. is there any good warrior now ? is it even possible.. some miraculous build that i'm missing? maybe some good duo combo that provide warrior support ? i dont know. i really don't know. i hope it change since im looking forward to play new gw2 expansion. in worst case i can just avoid pvp but its part of game that i liked. pity.

 

EDIT: there is lot of answers that showed up when i was typing. i think way the other warriors doing now is just focus heavily on condi clean and pure damage. i'll give it try tomorrow.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Luna.6203

[sneakytails.5629]

I stopped relying on Resistance a long time ago (way before the big change) and just went with clears, even though clears are not even close to enough.

 

I actually don't care about dying to condi in WvW because its skilless chumps hiding behind tank stats while they barf out condi's left and right mostly through lame AOE attacks.

 

I have more respect for power permastealth deadeye's.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

16 minutes ago, sneakytails.5629 said:

I stopped relying on Resistance a long time ago (way before the big change) and just went with clears, even though clears are not even close to enough.

 

I actually don't care about dying to condi in WvW because its skilless chumps hiding behind tank stats while they barf out condi's left and right mostly through lame AOE attacks.

 

I have more respect for power permastealth deadeye's.

Amen.

 

I've never relief on resistance myself tbh. My utility bar has been mending, bull's charge, fgj, and sio since Feb 2020.

 

I'm embracing more condition duration reduction traits, runes, and food atm.

[Aaron.1294]

berserker stance should have immunity to all condies, but not as a boon, as stance effect in addition to adrenaline

Also getting 28 adrenaline in 4 sec from a skill with 40 sec cd is a lil bit underwhelming

Edited May 18, 2021 by Aaron.1294

[sneakytails.5629]

41 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Amen.

 

I've never relief on resistance myself tbh. My utility bar has been mending, bull's charge, fgj, and sio since Feb 2020.

 

I'm embracing more condition duration reduction traits, runes, and food atm.

 

I was running that same utility bar all this week. Normally I stack stun breaks with Dolyak Stance, Balanced Stance, and Rousing Resilience. It was nice to BC into a massive F1 after popping FGJ.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, sneakytails.5629 said:

 

I was running that same utility bar all this week. Normally I stack stun breaks with Dolyak Stance, Balanced Stance, and Rousing Resilience. It was nice to BC into a massive F1 after popping FGJ.

It always is. You'll down sloppy players every time. I settled on that bar with my sentinel build and never looked back for over a year.

[crewthief.8649]

21 minutes ago, Aaron.1294 said:

berserker stance should have immunity to all condies, but not as a boon, as stance effect in addition to adrenaline

Also getting 28 adrenaline in 4 sec from a skill with 40 sec cd is a lil bit underwhelming

That’s how it used to work.

[sneakytails.5629]

Would you care to share your build?

 

I would like to set it up for an extra armor set and try it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, sneakytails.5629 said:

Would you care to share your build?

 

I would like to set it up for an extra armor set and try it.

Who? me?

[sneakytails.5629]

11 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Who? me?

 

Yeah, sorry i messed up the quote from your earlier post. I would like to try your build if you could link it. Thanks.

Edited May 18, 2021 by sneakytails.5629

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

28 minutes ago, sneakytails.5629 said:

 

Yeah, sorry i messed up the quote from your earlier post. I would like to try your build if you could link it. Thanks.

I DM'd you my build along with a few variations to try.

[sneakytails.5629]

Thank you.

[Luna.6203]

9 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I stopped relying on Resistance a long time ago (way before the big change) and just went with clears, even though clears are not even close to enough.

 

9 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Amen.

 

I've never relief on resistance myself tbh. My utility bar has been mending, bull's charge, fgj, and sio since Feb 2020.

 

I'm embracing more condition duration reduction traits, runes, and food atm.

...

I think this is reason why nobody talks about it. i'm starting to see how you guys play warrior now a days. my build is old school and i heavily rely on resistance. and this is where "WHAT TF IM SUPPOSED TO DO NOW " came from. i had 100% reduction and now 0. you know it's really WTF situation for me.

 

So my playstyle wasnt meta anyway. than why nerf it from 100% to 0 is 1st question. And 2nd question is how can you change boon effect and not touch skills with that effect. at this point i repeat my self but its broken.

This is good idea:

8 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

berserker stance should have immunity to all condies, but not as a boon, as stance effect in addition to adrenaline

other stance enduring pain works that way.

 

But healing signet should do something as well. maybe just remove Xcondi on use. its meh.. i didn't even realized that mending removes 5xcondi now. it used to be 2 or 3 i dont remember. But it wast that powerfull.

 

Also im talking about instanced pvp not WvW.. both unranked and ranked. btw it's cool ranked pvp is now 2v2. no more afk and bots in 5 man team. So far all my teammates in 2v2 were playing and tried to win. hooray!

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Yeah well, healing Signet had been gutted before even the resistance nerf. So I personally never used it, except for a meme spellbreaker build with multiple passive healing sources and life steal. 

 

Featherfoot I used mostly is zerg gear for on demand superspeed and resistance which helped a lot with my bubbles. Sometimes I had it on my Strength Spellbreaker instead of SIO for more pressure towards enemies. 

 

The only thing that has altered my game play is Zerker Stance on Power (Strength) Berserker, where it provided me with good immunity (CCing enemy even if the AoEs were plenty) and then spamming 4 decapitates. 

 

In which case I switched to a Defense variant of Power Zerker and I'm aight.