never forget

[felix.2386]

Berserker has been in a great place with strong support, power, and condition builds that are successful in all content.

- Anet 29th April 2021.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

The world we live in...🚶‍♂️

[crewthief.8649]

On 6/4/2021 at 11:33 PM, felix.2386 said:

Berserker has been in a great place with strong support, power, and condition builds that are successful in all content.

- Anet 29th April 2021.

Prime evidence that they do not know the state of their own game. Pretty incompetent, to be completely honest.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, crewthief.8649 said:

Prime evidence that they do not know the state of their own game. Pretty incompetent, to be completely honest.

While I'm not thrilled about the existing trait gaps in non-berserker mode and a few other things, this is not prime evidence that Anet doesn't know their game state. It is prime evidence that players think they know better than Anet does on how the game should work when they don't. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[felix.2386]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

While I'm not thrilled about the existing trait gaps in non-berserker mode and a few other things, this is not prime evidence that Anet doesn't know their game state. It is prime evidence that players think they know better than Anet does on how the game should work when they don't. 

yes, i agree with anet, berserker is in a great place in support/power/condi in all modes

 -Obtena

 

it's more like the prime evidence of Obtena thinking he knows better then everybody else while making basically 0 sense

Edited June 6, 2021 by felix.2386

[Obtena.7952]

34 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

yes, i agree with anet, berserker is in a great place in support/power/condi in all modes

 -Obtena

 

it's more like the prime evidence of Obtena thinking he knows better then everybody else while making basically 0 sense

That doesn't make sense. What I think does not affect Anet concluding berserker is in a great place. In fact, you didn't actually READ my post because I don't believe that's the case. Maybe you should take a breath and try harder to comprehend things people post, assuming you read them at all. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[DKRathalos.9625]

42 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

While I'm not thrilled about the existing trait gaps in non-berserker mode and a few other things, this is not prime evidence that Anet doesn't know their game state.

Then let me ask you this, what is considered to be the prime evidence that Anet doesn't know their game state?

[cryorion.9532]

46 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

While I'm not thrilled about the existing trait gaps in non-berserker mode and a few other things, this is not prime evidence that Anet doesn't know their game state. It is prime evidence that players think they know better than Anet does on how the game should work when they don't. 

Anet didn't even intend to touch condi firebrand and only did so after outcry from people on reddit with all of those memes. It is pretty obvious that they didn't know (or didn't care) about how overperforming FB was (and still is) in terms of damage and kit it has available. Which is pure incompetence, how can they not know that after making conditions in PvE much stronger due to Exposed change, Firebrand would be number one condition build that would be absolutely busted without nerfs and they only touch Firebrand after people's outcry? Hmm... I can only think of that they would release fast nerfs after that balance patch, which only shows how blind and not well-thought some of their changes are.

Condition firebrand was most likely the strongest condition build in fractals that rivaled power builds due to how fast they could ramp up condition burst and other stackable buffs the class has. Anet even admitted it AFTER people's outcry. Hmmmm...

And guess what, the espec is still overpowered, still has insane condi burst peaks and fast condi ramp up 🤷‍♂️ Oh wow, but Anet knows better than players, right?

Edited June 6, 2021 by cryorion.9532

[Obtena.7952]

21 minutes ago, DKRathalos.9625 said:

Then let me ask you this, what is considered to be the prime evidence that Anet doesn't know their game state?

Certainly not posts from people that complain with out even being able to read other people's posts. I mean, literally post I'm not happy with Berserker and the OP turns around and says I'm agreeing with Anet's view of Berserker ... like WTF man. That's just head in the sand, not listening to what people have to say nonsense. 

 

Let me put to you this way. No one can know if Anet does or doesn't know their game state because we don't know Anet's targets and we don't know how they are assessing if those targets are being hit. I think it is safe to assume that Anet is not too concerned about the game state, given how willing they are to change it all the time to whatever they want it to be. 

 

What I CAN tell you that if people make good feedback threads instead of ... whatever this steaming loaf of a thread is ... Anet pays attention to that. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Grand Marshal.4098]

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Not posts from players that complain with out even being able to read other people's posts. 

 

Let me put to you this way. No one can know if Anet does or doesn't know their game state because we don't know Anet's targets and we don't know how they are assessing if those targets are being hit. 

 

What I CAN tell you that if people make good feedback threads instead of ... whatever this steaming loaf of a thread is ... Anet pays attention to that. 

I don't disagree, but so far after tens and tens, if not hundreds of highly elaborative posts concerning warrior balance, the Omnibus being the greatest example, where we try to check each other's ideas to avoid "power creep" as much as possible, none of the most obvious of matters have been even referenced by Anet, just to keep us warriors invested.

 

Instead of meme-ing...Just like with other professions! We call out for a meaningful Banner QoL change, be it moving the double standards in Tactics, utilization of banners as mobile buffs even at the cost of stats provided etc. only to get some questionable changes in traits which instead of improving buildcrafting they tunnel vision the existing builds even more and some weird "light field" addition which is both OOC on warriors and servers little to no purpose when Guardians are around.

 

At this point, I believe it's safe to admit that players have waited long enough and since we finally get some form of "Balance", seeing huge issues not getting addressed is going to lead us to even less understanding towards Anet's part.

 

Do they intend of balancing the game entirely on their own, with their own "meta" or non-"meta" in mind? Quite possibly. Should that be a reason for us not to suggest improvement to those spots where we know our class is suffering (not talking about allowing more role versatility, rather better performance in our current roles)? At the very least, Anet needs to come out and say "Hey, we don't want to change that, better stop asking for it, we don't want the game to be altered in that part" etc.

[Obtena.7952]

9 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I don't disagree, but so far after tens and tens, if not hundreds of highly elaborative posts concerning warrior balance, the Omnibus being the greatest example, where we try to check each other's ideas to avoid "power creep" as much as possible, none of the most obvious of matters have been even referenced by Anet, just to keep us warriors invested.

Sure, so the question here is how Anet makes that conclusion. Not to assume our ideas of 'balance' are better and argue Anet doesn't have clue. That's going to get people no where. 

 

I made a thread about why I thought Berserker v2 was deficient in it's design. While I believe Anet took notice of the dissatisfaction people had, their response and change updates to Berserker didn't address the design deficiencies of the espec. I could only conclude from that is as right or wrong as I was, Anet controls the design and if they can, they will 'fix' it as they see fit by making some adjustments to the numbers before completely reworking it. 

 

All this to say ... whatever I felt was deficient about the spec didn't seem all that relevant to Anet if their answer was simply to pump up some of it's numbers so it was more attractive to play. 

 

TLDR: Seems to me Anet's biggest concern is that a class/espec met some threshold for being played to be 'in a good place'. If you want fixes to something, I guess the answer is to stop playing it to impact their measures of what is 'good'. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[cryorion.9532]

53 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Let me put to you this way. No one can know if Anet does or doesn't know their game state because we don't know Anet's targets and we don't know how they are assessing if those targets are being hit. I think it is safe to assume that Anet is not too concerned about the game state, given how willing they are to change it all the time to whatever they want it to be. 

 

What I CAN tell you that if people make good feedback threads instead of ... whatever this steaming loaf of a thread is ... Anet pays attention to that. 

No one knows how to make a good feedback thread because no one knows Anet's targets and no one knows how Anet is assessing if those targets are being hit. Makes sense.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

This is where a forum post would probably set our fears to the side for once. Not just for warriors, but for all classes. Devs uploading threads discussing what they are looking at.  Threads explaining why they are looking at a specific thing and if the playerbase has constructive critiscism to add, so they will. Word won't be final, but it would be a huge step towards a better, less surprising balance patch, than those instant out-of-nowhere (sometimes) changes. 

 

Granted players can't know balance as well as many imply, but I'll be damned if like the 20ish active warriors I see in this forum in particular, don't collectively know how the class operates.

[Obtena.7952]

18 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

No one knows how to make a good feedback thread because no one knows Anet's targets and no one knows how Anet is assessing if those targets are being hit. Makes sense.

That's not what I said. If you don't know what a good feedback thread looks like, you can start by knowing this isn't one of them. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

This is where a forum post would probably set our fears to the side for once. Not just for warriors, but for all classes. Devs uploading threads discussing what they are looking at.  Threads explaining why they are looking at a specific thing and if the playerbase has constructive critiscism to add, so they will. Word won't be final, but it would be a huge step towards a better, less surprising balance patch, than those instant out-of-nowhere (sometimes) changes. 

 

Granted players can't know balance as well as many imply, but I'll be damned if like the 20ish active warriors I see in this forum in particular, don't collectively know how the class operates.

Agreed. I would love to have even a hint of what Anet is looking at to conclude statements like this one. I have no doubt like you that there are people that post who know how the classes they play work. The missing link here is if that knowledge of class mechanics can be a good indicator of how the class SHOULD work. 

[crewthief.8649]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

While I'm not thrilled about the existing trait gaps in non-berserker mode and a few other things, this is not prime evidence that Anet doesn't know their game state. It is prime evidence that players think they know better than Anet does on how the game should work when they don't. 

So, Berserker is performing GREAT in PvP? That was what I was referencing, because it is objectively not performing great in PvP.

Edited June 6, 2021 by crewthief.8649

[Telgum.6071]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

What I CAN tell you that if people make good feedback threads instead of ... whatever this steaming loaf of a thread is ... Anet pays attention to that. 

It has been a year a 4 months since Defy Pain got a CD increase from 90s to 300. Said trait casts Lesser Endure Pain when you drop below 50%HP during 2 seconds.

 

Which means, every 5 minutes you have 2 seconds of no damage. Conditions still works on you though, same with CC.

 

Many posts have been made since that nerf and the answer we got is "Berserker is ok in all game modes". I don't know, you talk some sense but I think Anet's actions don't fit said sense, IMO.

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, crewthief.8649 said:

So, Berserker is performing GREAT in PvP? That was what I was referencing, because it is objectively not performing great in PvP.

I dunno, is it? I don't think you understand what objective means if you believe that. 

[cryorion.9532]

23 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's not what I said. If you don't know what a good feedback thread looks like, you can start by knowing this isn't one of them. 

I just deduced that from your reply. How can people make a good feedback thread if they don't know what is Anet up to? Or just make random feedback thread and hope that it aligns with Anet's vision that no one knows?

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Telgum.6071 said:

It has been a year a 4 months since Defy Pain got a CD increase from 90s to 300. Said trait casts Lesser Endure Pain when you drop below 50%HP during 2 seconds.

 

Which means, every 5 minutes you have 2 seconds of no damage. Conditions still works on you though, same with CC.

 

Many posts have been made since that nerf and the answer we got is "Berserker is ok in all game modes". I don't know, you talk some sense but I think Anet's actions don't fit said sense, IMO.

See here is the problem I have. What makes you think the CD on one trait or skill has ANYTHING to do with how Anet measures and assesses an espec to come to the conclusion it's OK in all game modes? 

 

Again, what we have here is a case of complaining about balance (which we have almost no insight to how Anet is measuring or assessing it) to ask for items to get changed. 

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, cryorion.9532 said:

I just deduced that from your reply. How can people make a good feedback thread if they don't know what is Anet up to? Or just make random feedback thread and hope that it aligns with Anet's vision that no one knows?

Looks like you need to significantly improve your deduction skills then. I think it's very easy to make a good feedback thread. You can start by NOT assuming Anet has no clue about how their game works or how they want it to work. #goodstarts

[crewthief.8649]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I dunno, is it? I don't think you understand what objective means if you believe that. 

It is most certainly not performing great in PvP. You can play games with semantics all you like, but anyone who has played the class for any significant amount of time knows that the Berserker elite specialization is not performing great in PvP. 
 

Personally, it appears you enjoy being contrary for the sake of being contrary. Have fun with that.

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, crewthief.8649 said:

It is most certainly not performing great in PvP. You can play games with semantics all you like, but anyone who has played the class for any significant amount of time knows that the Berserker elite specialization is not performing great in PvP. 
 

Personally, it appears you enjoy being contrary for the sake of being contrary. Have fun with that.

There is no semantics being played ... you said it was OBJECTIVELY not performing great in PvP. You can't say that unless you objectively measured it's performance and it didn't meet the criteria for great performance. So what are your objective criteria and how did you measure it? 

 

So again ... do you know what objective means? It appears you do not because I'm willing to bet my last dollar you haven't measured performance or defined what 'great' PVP performance is. You're just another person that says things they don't understand to make the most noise to get attention. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[cryorion.9532]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Looks like you need to significantly improve your deduction skills then. I think it's very easy to make a good feedback thread. You can start by NOT assuming Anet has no clue about how their game works or how they want it to work. #goodstarts

Oh is that so? What about countless of feedback threads on this forum that are better than this rant thread, threads that point out the issue with possible fixes/suggesstions, yet nothing happens and warrior gets some random changes that make little sense? As you said, we don't know what Anet is up to. And so our feedback is not properly adjusted to Anet's thinking or vision. So...

[Telgum.6071]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

See here is the problem I have. What makes you think the CD on one trait or skill has ANYTHING to do with how Anet measures and assesses an espec to come to the conclusion it's OK in all game modes? 

 

Again, what we have here is a case of complaining about balance (which we have almost no insight to how Anet is measuring or assessing it) to ask for items to get changed. 

Because Anet balances not only around numbers but also around the use (or abuse) of trait lines, there are some good examples in the last patch, including Warrior, Discipline and Tactics. And based on what I see every time I click on both enemy and ally warriors, I doubt Defense fits their intentions and speeches about balancing classes and trait lines. 

Trust me, I would LOVE to talk with more knowledge about what they think, agree or disagree, but with the very little communication they provide is no use.