How much damage per second in WvW zerg fights is "good"?

[Fog.3768]

Hello, just started using ArchDPS to track my damage per second in WvW zerg fights. I was just wondering what is a good number per second that would be considered good, or to aim for? Thanks.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Depends on your class tbh. It's more about benchmarks than it is dps. Like, you need to smartly place your dmg in bombs to get huge value out of it, instead of tagging 1 or 2 enemies with your attacks.

 

I suppose you should aim for at least 100k + in quick zerg v zerg encounters, where either zerg gets wiped after the push. For long term fights, save your dmg for spikes even if it lowers you overall dmg. Instead of say continuously increasing overall dmg by attacking that said 1 or 2 targets if it's not rly necessary. Basically what's known as "chasing" after a single target. 

 

If you play Herald you are expected to be in the top dmg tiers, scourge comes second. Special stuff like Berserker and Weaver can either be bad, or top DPS. 

 

Just go with the flow and always aim to be in the top 5 of your squad.

[Fog.3768]

Thank you, this is very helpful! I am playing a Dragonhunter, what do you think would be good per second for that?

[Junkpile.7439]

Sometimes i do +20k under second. Need to remember that main thing is to be top damage dealer at least couple sec. Pro tip is attack first before other players and push print screen fast.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Junkpile.7439

[God.2708]

So as a broad brush over 2k DPS is considerable passable/average in a typical open field large scale fight. (Edit: Assuming the fight lasts at least ~60s)

If you want to put a bit more work in, post fight click your name and someone elses name who's playing the same class. It will bring up a little charts of skill use and a damage over time graph. You want your peaks to be at similar time frames, that indicates you are dealing damage at the same time, which is way more important than dealing 'the most' damage.

Doing that can also be revealing on what skills you are struggling with. If you click someone on the same class who's got double your damage, you can see that they dealt way more damage with skills x or y than you, so maybe you need to work on placing those skills better (or using those skills).

Edited June 20, 2021 by God.2708

[XenesisII.1540]

Heh, damage relies on your enemy actually standing around taking your damage long enough, it's not like in pve where everything is practically standing in your red rings most of the time.

 

Worry more about timing and placement.

[SWI.4127]

15 hours ago, Fog.3768 said:

Thank you, this is very helpful! I am playing a Dragonhunter, what do you think would be good per second for that?

 

It depends on the fights, because sometimes there will be a lot of downtime where nobody is doing damage, other times you can one-push a group and do like 20k dps.  Just compare yourself to other people in the squad.  DH should be near the top.  Only getting beat by good Weavers. 

 

Also things are kind of skewed in no downstate week, since a lot of damage normally comes from cleaving downs.

[Lord Meowalot.3690]

DPS is sometimes a bit difficult to benchmark around a specific per second number. Fights can vary a lot depending on things like terrain, commanding style, etc. 

 

Compare your per second and total damage figures to other power DHs in your squad. Check to see which skills contribute the most to their damage and how often they use the skills then compare them to your own. If you run often enough, you'll start to notice the names of top DHs in your server and you can use them to benchmark against. 

 

You can benchmark against other classes as well, but it may not be as useful. For example, if I am on scourge, I am not expecting to out dps top weavers and DHs so I am looking to out dps and out strip other scourges instead.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

your dmg is okay, if ur not the last of your type of class within the zerg, and if the enemy group dies 😛

that to be said, if u stand long near the enemy and nothing dies, something is wrong. inexperienced dps often don't klick their stuff when pressured or position wrong and tank the bomb/cc instead of dropping their dmg... mostly also running non proper builds or classes even.

 

it doesn't directly matter, the highest dmg is just the best build that got the best hits in really, combined with the experience a player has in terms of "what do i klick when to do most work"

 

it is usually a coreguard, dh, weaver, herald, sometimes a berserker. if scourge is veryhigh dps, it runs a weird set or the other dps are just extremly bad ^^

[SWI.4127]

3 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

 if scourge is veryhigh dps, it runs a weird set or the other dps are just extremly bad ^^

 

It depends.  If you onepush a group, scourge can easily be up there among the top DPS if they dropped all their wells, shades, and breach.  If it's a longer fight though, then well cooldowns come into play and other classes with shorter cooldowns should be higher. 

[Lyralia.2945]

Keep in mind that depending on ArcDPS settings the data can be a bit confusing or misleading. Someone who does very consistent damage but doesn't really "burst" can in some situations be less desirable than someone who front loads their burst into a shorter time but does less overall damage through an encounter. That generates downs. Pressure can be good too, though.

 

Also keep in mind that certain classes are doing indirect damage through sustaining others or buffing them.

If you are learning, take as much survivability as you can stay comfortable with and practice positioning and timing your bursts (if your build is more bursty rather than sustained damage).

Just because a group is in front of a burn guard (for example) doesn't always mean they should burst right away because people might be doing their healing rotation or have buffs up during a push. Try to figure out the times where your burst will do the most damage. Due to the various ranges in this game positioning matters way more than you would think as far as how much damage you can do.

 

I might get very huge numbers on my build vs groups but even if I am doing the #1 spots damage, the ranking can be kinda deceptive because some of those other players might have buffed me or had their burst timed in such a manner that it might have generated more downs. It kinda feels like surfing in a way getting used to when you can burst and ride the wave out without dying. If you go with a very glass build, you will end up needing to factor in positioning even more. You can take stuff like reflects and heals that do a % of your damage to cover any stat disparity in some cases depending on the class and build. You said you are a guardian so timing your reflects and blocks so you can cleave into an opening is essential. Don't be afraid to back off and sit in the back line when you are on cooldowns too, so you can save the heals for when you need them. This is all assuming you are going for a pure dps role. Make sure to give stab etc to the people that need it up closer, etc.

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Sahfur.5612
typo

[ArchonWing.9480]

People are not golems so it can be hard to use this information. Pirate ship fights will inherently have lower dps, and also fights that go too fast so people inflate their numbers by dpsing downs lol (not this week though). In addition the size of the fight matters. If there are 50 people, you'll have higher dps just because you're less likely to whiff or someone didn't dodge. The supports in your group matters.

 

What's far more important is your spike damage, which is the top of your graph if you click on your own name, and is it comparable to the others of your class and definitely more than support classes. You should be looking at like 3-4k dps burst and 2k sustained.

 

You should set arcdps to log and then upload the logs to https://dps.report/

 

You can set up logging in menu options (alt-shift-t). Here's an example: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/351063966744707085/687839385764495441/arcdps_log_setup.png

 

That will give you a lot more useful info about the context, and also less about random anecdotes.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[LetoII.3782]

20k at the right moment beats 250k broadcast every time.