Would it be good if ranger would heal over time design?

[anduriell.6280]

I was thinking as design and balance approach to make the ranger to work with Healing over Time (HoT) instead Instant Healing(IH). 

 

For that all healing skills would need to be changed to work as Troll Unguent which means the ranger would get none instant package healing but instead a ticking healing over the next few seconds. 

Examples of this: 

"We Heal As One!" to cast a Lick_Wounds. This would heal the ranger for as long as the rager stay in place so the pet can heal him. If the player moves around it would make the healing much slower as the pet has to be in close proximitiy to the ranger to heal him. CCing the pet would delay also that healing. Some balancing to how much the pet heals is needed anyway. 

Healing Spring : to launch direct healing pulses instead the initial heal, which could be higher for the ranger and lower for allies/pet. It gives the trap an unique utiliy and it's own weaknesess. 

Glyph of Rejuvenation: Could also pulse heal if the Glyphs would use the tether mechanic as suggested. 

Bear_Stance: could be an exception as to promote more Soulbeast melee gameplay as a melee weapon is provided with the spec. Still the base heal could be lowered and the heal-by-condition increased as to give the heal still a counterplay and to make the stances to have a differenciating and rewarding mechanic over normal skills. 

 

To balance this  the class would also need access to more HoT in traits and skills, a good example is  Rugged Growth. It would be fine if Windborne Notes would also HoT while the ranger has reneration, even if the heal is balanced to be around Signet of Renewal passive numbers. More traits like this would be nice, for example in BeastMastery replace Natural Healing so it does small pulsing healing while the pet is within X distance of the ranger.  Or Predator's_Cunning to trigger with more conditions. 

 

This would make ranger to have a distinctive counterplay not limited to specific classes, as means it would be weak to constant pressure if focused. The ranger should have means to fight that having access to mobility as means to keep the distance. The player would also need to learn how to read the combat flow as casting those heal skills as last resort would not work for the class. 

 

As such the class could be re-designed over that concept: Profession which favors ranged combat with projectiles and work in an unison with a pet. 

 

Some artifical limitations brought by Anet could be undone:

1. No access to reliable stability. It is ok for the ranger to have access to short stability burst  as means the class needs to keep being mobile and keep the distance.
2. No access to reliable active defenses: blocks/immunities.  It is ok for the ranger to have some active deffenses as means to allow the HoT to work. 
3. No realiable access to unblockables . It is ok as to have more unblockable projetile as the ranger would need to be able apply some counterpressure if under constant damage. 
4. Pets are very underwhelming with slow movement, slow attacks and low effective health. Pets would need some additional work as to bring less damage, more utility and better survivability but ranger would be more realiant on the pet to be able to kite. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by anduriell.6280
smol correction

[Sobx.1758]

Hilarious how you try to boost the overal healing, while making/gaining more of it as passive effects, but at the same time you try to play it off as "it's to make ranged have a distinctive counterplay", LUL. Especially great would be the heal you're probably using anyways, we heal as one, which you suddenly want to change into lick wounds without being downed, at the same time making the effect to be able to roll over itself, by DELAYING (instead of cancelling) if you're moving around. Totally not for the sake of being ableto pre-cast it before/at the start of the fights and then keep moving to keep that heal pocketed, allowing the cd to tick down, eh? 🙃 

Also gj pretending ranger has no access to reliable active defenses 🙃 

Also gj pretending ranger has no reliable access to unblockable 🙃 

 

Overally it's nothing more than just another silly "buff my class" thread that tries -and fails- to hide its purpose behind a "This would make ranger to have a distinctive counterplay" phrase. Nothing here would make ranger "to have a distinctive counterplay", while at the same time you're using it as a springboard to give the class more passive sustain. Stop pretending.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

This would make ranger to have a distinctive counterplay not limited to specific classes, as means it would be weak to constant pressure if focused. The ranger should have means to fight that having access to mobility as means to keep the distance. The player would also need to learn how to read the combat flow as casting those heal skills as last resort would not work for the class. 

It's interesting to claim these things, but I think you need to bridge that gap better. HoT heal skills somehow would make these things happen? I'm not seeing it ... I'm also wondering why these things need to happen in the first place. I really don't see the problem you are trying to solve by making all heal skills over time. That seems like a severe and unnecessary shift in class design philosophy. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[anbujackson.9564]

Heal over time is already present on elementalist/tempest. There is no need for ranger to be the same. His focus on strong burst healing is fine.

 

In general regeneration is already enough for passive healing. Most of the time you receive damage its high, no point in heal over time there.

[Lazze.9870]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Also gj pretending ranger has no reliable access to unblockable 🙃 

 

Signet of the Hunt is such a great, meta defining skill, isn't it?

 

It has the fewest amounts of unblockable skills in the game together with warrior. They both get the signet which grants unblockable stacks, the ranger version has zero additional effecst, has a useless passive effect and is on a lengthier cooldown.

 

Access, yes. Reliable? Well, the signet works. Viable though? The only "viable" ranger build with reliable access to unblockables is a condi trapper.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Signet of the Hunt is such a great, meta defining skill, isn't it?

Who said anything about meta defining? And who judges it, you? Or the person you kill through their block? And how is this not reliable access? Because you need to pick it?

Apparently DOESN'T COUNT IF NOT META DEFINING! -sure, ok.

 

Quote

Access, yes. Reliable? Well, the signet works. Viable though? Not unless it's a condi trapper build.

So what you are saying is that it IS reliable, it's just that it doesn't fit OP's agenda to be a propeller for a "buff my class" thread, so we need to pretend it's not reliable, because it sounds better this way for the sake of fulfilling the role OP (and apparently you) want it to serve?

 

 

(and you completely left aside the rest of my post, which probably boils down to: in what way any of these changes do anything for the sake of pushing more buffs for the class? What "distinctive counterplay"? What even is this thread?)

Edited July 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Lazze.9870]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Who said anything about meta defining? And who judges it, you? Or the person you kill through their block? And how is this not reliable access? Because you need to pick it?

Apparently DOESN'T COUNT IF NOT META DEFINING! -sure, ok.

 

So what you are saying is that it IS reliable, it's just that it doesn't fit OP's agenda to be a propeller for a "buff my class" thread, so we need to pretend it's not reliable, because it sounds better this way for the sake of fulfilling the role OP (and apparently you) want it to serve?

 

No one? Excuse me, but why the kitten do you think I make the summarization at the bottom?

 

Ranger has no weapon skills that are inherently unblockable, and the only way to make something unblockable is to run a trapper build because traps are unblockable, or to run a garbage signet. They are reliable in the sense that they work, so I can't not call them reliable.

 

But, it is OBJECTIVELY the worst class in the game when it comes to unblockable attacks. That's the relevant statement I'm making. Nothing else.

 

I don't agree with OP's ideas at all.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Sobx.1758]

15 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

No one? Excuse me, but why the kitten do you think I make the summarization at the bottom?

I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to.

If it's a response to "who said anything about meta defining"... well, you did. But the quesiton was more directed at the reasoning why you even decided that it's IN ANY WAY meaningful to mention in the response to what I said and you quoted. Pretty sure it's just you trying to overblow the length a skill needs to go ("be meta defining") to actually matter. But it doesn't. And before that nobody said anything about meta defining.

 

Quote

Ranger has no weapon skills that are inherently unblockable, and the only way to make something unblockable is to run a trapper build because traps are unblockable, or to run a garbage utility slot. They are reliable in the sense that they work.

And isn't that pretty much what reliable means? So why pretend it's not?

Ah, because buff plox. That's why. That's also why I said OP should "stop pretending" that this thread is anything other than that.

 

Quote

It is OBJECTIVELY the worst class in the game when it comes to unblockable attacks. That's the statement I'm making. Nothing else.

 "...when it comes to unblockable attacks". What an interesting, meaningul and broad way to try and value/define a class as a whole that is totally relevant to this thread and my initial response as a whole... DID you even read my whole post there? Because at this point, I'm not sure anymore.

 

15 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

I don't agree with OP's ideas at all.

And despite that, here you are, using those meaningless ideas you disagree with as a springboard for buffing the class. SO unpredictable, not like that's literally what I called him out on in my post, which you also conveniently disregarded, eh?

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Dadnir.5038]

7 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Some artifical limitations brought by Anet could be undone:

1. No access to reliable stability. It is ok for the ranger to have access to short stability burst  as means the class needs to keep being mobile and keep the distance.
2. No access to reliable active defenses: blocks/immunities.  It is ok for the ranger to have some active deffenses as means to allow the HoT to work. 
3. No realiable access to unblockables . It is ok as to have more unblockable projetile as the ranger would need to be able apply some counterpressure if under constant damage. 
4. Pets are very underwhelming with slow movement, slow attacks and low effective health. Pets would need some additional work as to bring less damage, more utility and better survivability but ranger would be more realiant on the pet to be able to kite. 

1. Isn't strength of the pack and dolyak stance (SB) reliable enough for you?
2. Signet of stone, counterattack (GS), Swoop (GS), Stalker strike (Dagger OH), Defy pain (SB), Unflinching fortitude (SB)???
3. Signet of the Hunt is a reliable source of unblockable.
4. True, pet need work. They need work since release of the game.

I don't think having heal skill designed to be "over time" would justify any of the things you hope to see.

 

As for my opinion, I believe that a variety of design is better than a single one and ranger happen to have a nice variety of design when it come the healing skills.

[Lazze.9870]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

"...when it comes to unblockable attacks". What an interesting, meaningul and broad way to try and value/define a class as a whole that is totally relevant to this thread and my initial response as a whole... DID you even read my whole post there? Because at this point, I'm not sure anymore.

 

You're latching on to "no reliable". Which you have every right to do because OP does his usual thing where everything about ranger is overdramatized.

 

I'm saying that sure, it does per definition have "reliable unblockables". But that isn't really interesting in the grand scheme of things. If you're gonna talk about class balance, which is what you are when you're claiming that someone is trying to make something OP or just simply buff things for the sake of buffing them, then it is much more interesting and valueable to talk about the quality and quantity of the unblockables.

 

Signet of the Hunt is garbage. It doesn't see any meaningful use. It pales compared to the skill which it is most identical to. It belongs to a class that lost two traits that provided unblockables, and has zero weapon skills that are inherently unblockable. Fair reasons to give it some QoL change, it has kitten all to do with buffing for the sake of buffing, as much as you'd like to think that. They don't even have to buff the active part, just about anything else than movement speed would make it less of a waste on your utility bar.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Lazze.9870 said:

You're latching on to "no reliable". Which you have every right to do because OP does his usual thing where everything about ranger is overdramatized.

I am "latching onto no reliable", because that's what OP wrote. That's clearly what I commented on and that's also what you tried to -even if just for a moment- turn into "doesn't count because not meta defining".

If you understand that what OP says here is purposefully overdramatized and doesn't make much sense then that's pretty much all there is to it.

 

Quote

Signet of the Hunt is garbage. It doesn't see any meaningful use. It pales compared to the skill which it is most identical to.

You make your own choices. If you were starving for unblockable as much as you try to make it appear, you surely would start slotting it to fill the gap in the build. Except considering the possibilities and versatility of ranger's kit and some of its weapons, it doesn't even look like suddenly flooding the class in unblockables is particularly needed outside of "buff plox so it can be that much easier".

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[necromaniac.7629]

19 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

No one? Excuse me, but why the kitten do you think I make the summarization at the bottom?

 

Ranger has no weapon skills that are inherently unblockable, and the only way to make something unblockable is to run a trapper build because traps are unblockable, or to run a garbage signet. They are reliable in the sense that they work, so I can't not call them reliable.

 

But, it is OBJECTIVELY the worst class in the game when it comes to unblockable attacks. That's the relevant statement I'm making. Nothing else.

 

I don't agree with OP's ideas at all.

Should "having the least access to unblockable attacks" even be an argument though, cause  imo I think there is a good reason why they designer ranger and war that way 🙂

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

On 7/5/2021 at 12:46 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

"We Heal As One!" to cast a Lick_Wounds. This would heal the ranger for as long as the rager stay in place so the pet can heal him. If the player moves around it would make the healing much slower as the pet has to be in close proximitiy to the ranger to heal him. CCing the pet would delay also that healing. Some balancing to how much the pet heals is needed anyway. 

Only if the cooldown countdown of the skill will start after skill function being complete, so unless you've fully used the "heal over time" the skill will sit at 25s cd or whatever. I'm really getting tired of these "I cast it now and wait to use it, then I can cast it again instantly when the previous effect run out" mechanics(waves at traps).

On 7/5/2021 at 12:46 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

Healing Spring : to launch direct healing pulses instead the initial heal, which could be higher for the ranger and lower for allies/pet. It gives the trap an unique utiliy and it's own weaknesess. 

If you want it to function like that, change it's "class" from "Trap" to "Well" since it doesn't behave like a trap in the slightest at this point. It would make more sense to change it into something like: First tick high heal, second tick, medium heal, third tick low heal, etc. and you must be within the area of the skill that've been triggered...

On 7/5/2021 at 12:46 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

Glyph of Rejuvenation: Could also pulse heal if the Glyphs would use the tether mechanic as suggested. 

No, it could be: 
Normal: 1s cast time, 6kwhateverstandardnumberheal, no heals for buddies.
CA version: 5s cast time, 1~1.5k heal per 1 tick/s to you and your closest allies in 360 radius(I'm far too generous here already).

On 7/5/2021 at 12:46 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

Dolyak Stance: could be an exception as to promote more Soulbeast melee gameplay as a melee weapon is provided with the spec. Still the base heal could be lowered and the heal-by-condition increased as to give the heal still a counterplay and to make the stances to have a differenciating and rewarding mechanic over normal skills. 

Not a Bear Stance? I think it's in kinda weird spot, since it's either too strong or too weak depending on who you're facing. I don't see any reason to do changes to it, for now that is.

[anduriell.6280]

17 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Only if the cooldown countdown of the skill will start after skill function being complete, so unless you've fully used the "heal over time" the skill will sit at 25s cd or whatever. I'm really getting tired of these "I cast it now and wait to use it, then I can cast it again instantly when the previous effect run out" mechanics(waves at traps).

If you want it to function like that, change it's "class" from "Trap" to "Well" since it doesn't behave like a trap in the slightest at this point. It would make more sense to change it into something like: First tick high heal, second tick, medium heal, third tick low heal, etc. and you must be within the area of the skill that've been triggered...

No, it could be: 
Normal: 1s cast time, 6kwhateverstandardnumberheal, no heals for buddies.
CA version: 5s cast time, 1~1.5k heal per 1 tick/s to you and your closest allies in 360 radius(I'm far too generous here already).

Not a Bear Stance? I think it's in kinda weird spot, since it's either too strong or too weak depending on who you're facing. I don't see any reason to do changes to it, for now that is.

I agree with all your points, Bear Stance also as it is a mistake from my part. 

 

The exposition is just to give an idea of what i meant, definitely there would be better ways to make it better and balanced, like you pointed out the idea of the Healing Spring to have decreasing healing ticks. The WHaO thing is better explained here so it is not like a instant effect but more like an status effect over the pet or command:

 

It is not that i think Ranger needs that change in the mechanics with HoT, it is just an idea so Anet devs can have a clear and defined balancing mechanics for the long range/pet situation. 

 

Right now they seem to strugle a bit finding a way to balance the class, and are applying random nerfs to see what sticks. Which is not working for the ranger so far, see the current state of the druid which seems to be the future for the soulbeast as well.