Moves that should do truck loads of dmg but dont

[nthmetal.9652]

1 minute ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Exactly 7.

I am sure you could replace "x" by scourge and would still be off better 😉

[DanAlcedo.3281]

2 minutes ago, nthmetal.9652 said:

I am sure you could replace "x" by scourge and would still be off better 😉

 

Not really.

 

The X classes are Utility, which you always want some of.

 

SB brings Bubble.

Mesmer has Fokus Pull.

Soulbeast or any Ranger brings Longbow 5. Which ignores LoS and therefor makes Siege in Towers etc obsolete.

 

But sure, you could replace them with scourge.

Edited July 19, 2021 by DanAlcedo.3281

[SWI.4127]

On 7/19/2021 at 8:51 AM, nthmetal.9652 said:

 

 

We have 9 professions. Each with core and 2 elite specs. 27 specs. And how many are needed in WvW zergs?

 

Tempest

Weaver

Chrono

Scourge

Scrapper

Herald

Renegade

Spellbreaker

Berserker (in some situations)

Firebrand

Dragonhunter

 

Out of the 18 elite specs, 11 being more or less meta is not bad.  Not counting core specs because I don't think anybody realistically expects them to be as good as elite specs in the current state of the game.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

6 hours ago, SWI.4127 said:

 

Tempest

Weaver

Chrono

Scourge

Scrapper

Herald

Renegade

Spellbreaker

Berserker (in some situations)

Firebrand

Dragonhunter

 

Out of the 18 elite specs, 11 being more or less meta is not bad.  Not counting core specs because I don't think anybody realistically expects them to be as good as elite specs in the current state of the game.

 

Why would you ever bring a tempest, weaver, renegade or berserker? 

 

Tempest is out classed by Firebrand and Scrapper by miles. It literally brings nothing to the table you need. 

 

Renegade is a far worse version of herald. 

 

Weaver or more precisely Staff has been a joke for years. 

 

And wtf is berserker doing on this list? 

 

 

Dragon hunter is more of a meme but it's still a guardian at least. 

 

There are exact 7 builds worth playing in squads and 3 of them because of a single skill that's strong enough to carry the class. 

 

I Wish I was wrong

 

 

 

[Aeolus.3615]

On 7/21/2021 at 4:36 AM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

 

Why would you ever bring a tempest, weaver, renegade or berserker? 

 

Tempest is out classed by Firebrand and Scrapper by miles. It literally brings nothing to the table you need. 

 

Renegade is a far worse version of herald. 

 

Weaver or more precisely Staff has been a joke for years. 

 

And wtf is berserker doing on this list? 

 

Dragon hunter is more of a meme but it's still a guardian at least. 

There are exact 7 builds worth playing in squads and 3 of them because of a single skill that's strong enough to carry the class. 

I Wish I was wrong

 

 

 

 

You are completelly wrong,

 

Renegade jalis can have perma alacrity even on power hammer build (diviner stats with some rune will have 100%boon duration so perma alacrity and long stability duration while on stats similiar to zerker and massive boon duration).

Renegade has also condi malyx builds

Herald atm is forgoton mostly in wvw, even on pve  groups m8 prefer a alacrity renegade.

Tempest is still nice to have, weaver is nice for smaller scalling but feels weird to play piano elementals, its a weird spot.

Bezerkers.... why not???? they can do a ton of damage :=)

 

 

The current build comp would be more like: (take this as a joke but its what ic)

 

The fully oveerstacked classes that would overperfom when mass stacked(or as most players hope it will happen)m trully no other classes are needed and some groups only stack this ones :

Necros:

- Core, very good tankines and aoe pressure

- Reapers perma group chill spam and a ton of damage with 2nd life bar, really a ton of damage...

 - Scourge, aoe with condi aoe and aoe and barriers everywhere, very anoying....they also heal right?

 

Engi

- Scrapers lots of them... minstrells scrappers everywhere, we all complain how op scrapper is but we cry to have them in our team.

 

Guardian: 

- Core and DH with burn builds, the guys that cant do much alone, they tend to call friends to gank solo players.

 - Firebrands... more minstrells full stacked spamming... most just press buttons but              generates  boons left and right, so who cares who plays well?

Most players belive its the best healing output class in the game with  the stronguest heals in game.(whenever ic a misntrell FB trying to heal with regen alone...and 1k-2k direct heals 🏅try harder medal for its effort.)

 

Elementalist:

- Tempest, Fresh air tempest due its damage output, can burst even minstrells classes in a few secs, its a broken spec.

 

 

The minor used classes:

Warrior:

- Spellbreaker: shouts with dome for boon denial

 

Revenants:

- Renegades pwoer setup: Perma alacrity to 10 alies, and high stability roads

- Renegades condi:   Renegade/malyx not much to say

- Herald Condi: rare to find but most try to gank many vs solo players since torment needs CC to make superb damage.

- Healign Heralds/ventari: the guys that bough the wrong game....they say that is actually real direct HP healer of the game its aoe heals were nerfed from 14k every 3 sec heals to 5k-6k every 3sec... was never used by 99% of the players, only delusional players still play them, btw they cant heal themselves since its the output modifiers that mekes them dream they even exist....

 

- Thiefls and mesmers.. theres probably alot of them... but we know they are all stealthed...

 

Everything else stays in pve.

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[DanAlcedo.3281]

6 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

 

You are completelly wrong,

 

Renegade jalis can have perma alacrity even on power hammer build (diviner stats with some rune will have 100%boon duration so perma alacrity and long stability duration while on stats similiar to zerker and massive boon duration).

Renegade has also condi malyx builds

Herald atm is forgoton mostly in wvw, even on pve  groups m8 prefer a alacrity renegade.

Tempest is still nice to have, weaver is nice for smaller scalling but feels weird to play piano elementals, its a weird spot.

Bezerkers.... why not???? they can do a ton of damage :=)

 

 

The current build comp would be more like: (take this as a joke but its what ic)

 

The fully oveerstacked classes that would overperfom when mass stacked(or as most players hope it will happen)m trully no other classes are needed and some groups only stack this ones :

Necros:

- Core, very good tankines and aoe pressure

- Reapers perma group chill spam and a ton of damage with 2nd life bar, really a ton of damage...

 - Scourge, aoe with condi aoe and aoe and barriers everywhere, very anoying....they also heal right?

 

Engi

- Scrapers lots of them... minstrells scrappers everywhere, we all complain how op scrapper is but we cry to have them in our team.

 

Guardian: 

- Core and DH with burn builds, the guys that cant do much alone, they tend to call friends to gank solo players.

 - Firebrands... more minstrells full stacked spamming... most just press buttons but              generates  boons left and right, so who cares who plays well?

Most players belive its the best healing output class in the game with  the stronguest heals in game.(whenever ic a misntrell FB trying to heal with regen alone...and 1k-2k direct heals 🏅try harder medal for its effort.)

 

Elementalist:

- Tempest, Fresh air tempest due its damage output, can burst even minstrells classes in a few secs, its a broken spec.

 

 

The minor used classes:

Warrior:

- Spellbreaker: shouts with dome for boon denial

 

Revenants:

- Renegades pwoer setup: Perma alacrity to 10 alies, and high stability roads

- Renegades condi:   Renegade/malyx not much to say

- Herald Condi: rare to find but most try to gank many vs solo players since torment needs CC to make superb damage.

- Healign Heralds/ventari: the guys that bough the wrong game....they say that is actually real direct HP healer of the game its aoe heals were nerfed from 14k every 3 sec heals to 5k-6k every 3sec... was never used by 99% of the players, only delusional players still play them, btw they cant heal themselves since its the output modifiers that mekes them dream they even exist....

 

- Thiefls and mesmers.. theres probably alot of them... but we know they are all stealthed...

 

Everything else stays in pve.

 

 

 

 

Renegade:

 

You run a basically worse version of zerk hammer for a single boon that's not even that impactful? (Why is it still 10 targets btw?) 

 

Add the fact that a single dodge removes 33% critchance. 

 

Where does the team comp gets fury from? 

 

Renegade has self fury but all of them are conditional. 

 

All I see is so many downsides that Herald doesnt have. 

 

 

Tempest:

No Stab, no stealth, no superspeed. 

Healing and condi clear is all it does but that's just the bare minimum a support class needs. 

Also Auras only effect you when you get hit, which you want to avoid in the first place. 

 

Berserker, Reaper and all pure melee builds:

They become unusable when a melee push is impossible. Why play them? 

 

Consistency is king. A build needs to pull its weight in every scenario. 

 

Condi:

Only small scale. Never in squads. 

 

Dragonhunter:

It's a meme. The only upside is that it is still a Guard. But condi is not good in zerks and what is the power variant doing? Drop spin swords under the enemy or scepter 2? That's Weaver levels of useful. 

 

 

Firebrand/Scrapper/Scourge/Herald has everything you would ever need. 

 

You can change some build but you always lose something. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Telgum.6071]

On 7/21/2021 at 5:36 AM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

 

Why would you ever bring a tempest, weaver, renegade or berserker? 

 

Tempest is out classed by Firebrand and Scrapper by miles. It literally brings nothing to the table you need. 

 

Renegade is a far worse version of herald. 

 

Weaver or more precisely Staff has been a joke for years. 

 

And wtf is berserker doing on this list? 

 

 

Dragon hunter is more of a meme but it's still a guardian at least. 

 

There are exact 7 builds worth playing in squads and 3 of them because of a single skill that's strong enough to carry the class. 

 

I Wish I was wrong

 

 

 

You are.

 

In which world is renegade a worse version that herald, when he can put overall more melee damage, use hammer, share Kalla's fervor and put 10-men alacrity? Check the May patch dude, we were seeing renegades on zergs before the patch, imagine now.

 

A well suited Berserker can oneshot a full enemy party. I don't like it, but it's high risk, very high reward.

 

Can't tell much about DH but I know commanders request them if there are too much firebrands.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

9 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

You are.

 

In which world is renegade a worse version that herald, when he can put overall more melee damage, use hammer, share Kalla's fervor and put 10-men alacrity? Check the May patch dude, we were seeing renegades on zergs before the patch, imagine now.

 

A well suited Berserker can oneshot a full enemy party. I don't like it, but it's high risk, very high reward.

 

Can't tell much about DH but I know commanders request them if there are too much firebrands.

 

I see renegade extremely rarely. 

 

More melee dmg is irrelevant, especially with the mountain of downsides Renegade comes with. 

 

Also if you get into melee range, then there are 2 options. 

 

You already won the fight because the enemy is so bad he could not stop you. Which makes a few % more melee dmg just win more. 

 

Or you are dead because the enemy wanted you to come close so they could bomb you. 

 

Alacrity was always a low impact boon in Wvw. 

It only becomes good in long fights, something does not really happen often. 

 

There is a reason it didn't see much use over the years. Even when it was stronger. 

 

 

Berserker: 

It's a gimmick build (like it always has been) aka it works like ones in a full moon. 

 

 

 

 

[Telgum.6071]

8 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Also if you get into melee range, then there are 2 options. 

 

You already won the fight because the enemy is so bad he could not stop you. Which makes a few % more melee dmg just win more. 

 

Or you are dead because the enemy wanted you to come close so they could bomb you. 

This is not true lol, zergs are not limited to pirate ship, melee train compositions are as meta as ranged compositions.

 

9 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Alacrity was always a low impact boon in Wvw. 

It only becomes good in long fights, something does not really happen often. 

If both zergs are good enough it does. Alacrity is a life saver in long fights, and I doubt it has been as strong as is now, since Renegade is stronger than ever and can keep almost permanent alacrity on 10 men by pressing one single skill.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Actually it's up to the group and the player.

 

Post PoP ICD, Tempest can compete better with scrapper when it comes to support. Less conversion from scrappers gives more space to aurasharing. Auras have less of a chance to negatively impact the zerg, as Frost Aura or Fire Aura won't covert immediately into boons when cleansed. Also auras are unstrippable. 

 

Weavers are glassy but all they need to do is throw down a good meteor shower and see their dps skyrocket to number 1 if they know how to play. 

 

Berserker brings the banner which spellbreaker can't afford to bring and deals massive damage. Even core warrior can spec for dps with banner, might share or shout healing. It's still a role. As long as they make up for it in damage. 

 

Renegade is in the same place as Holosmith imo. They can both provide very good utility in the group (prot, alac, forge and shortbow dmg burst) but they are a bit niche in that you prefer to have scrappers and heralds first. 

 

I saw a couple experimental staff Mirages the other day (when the staff change happened) and they can still hold up quite well. Even have seen core mantra mesmers in an offensive support role. Again, kinda niche, but still has a place. 

 

Finally rangers and thieves. Stance souldbeasts, immob rangers, cleanser/offensive support druids. Can all work. Staff Daredevil, venom share thief, rez Deadeye. Can also work. 

 

Its a matter of skill tbh. Yes numbers matter as well. Without the main comp you can't play, but point is, you are restricted to running 10 of the same party comps. 

 

 

[Aeolus.3615]

8 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

This is not true lol, zergs are not limited to pirate ship, melee train compositions are as meta as ranged compositions.

 

If both zergs are good enough it does. Alacrity is a life saver in long fights, and I doubt it has been as strong as is now, since Renegade is stronger than ever and can keep almost permanent alacrity on 10 men by pressing one single skill.

 

I guess its 2021 and some server havent discovered how strong a  perma alacrity can be for the group... even when takign strutures theres alac revs reducing  siege and shield gens CD's.... while infights it eases players in heavy CD and makes bomb happens fasters.

 

@Telgum.6071

Imagine bzerkers with perma alacitry using their damage trough blocks faster or using shouts and SB  using domes mroe frequentrly,  every mantra on FB's recovring faster so they have more uses per minute etc.

It is  25% Skill Recharge Rate... its like evey one runs a trait that makes everything recharge 25% faster!

And even if u see very often this usage is OK, one should be enough(ok'ish) to support 5-20.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Lazze.9870]

On 7/19/2021 at 6:20 PM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Exactly 7.

 

Needed is a loaded term. But you "need" 4 (FB, scrapper, rev, necro), and you'd want a few spellbreakers for bubbles and a chrono or two for utility. Putting soulbeast in the x cateogry is generous. It's not needed, it's just decent enough. Might as well put DH there for their damage, topping arc on overall damage and burst is more than just a meme.