Positive Things About Mirage?

[zealex.9410]

@Unknown.3976 said:I don't understand why u guys choose to engage with Zealex, his stance on mirage is already well known. He's advocating for no changes and that is a laughable stance since Anet always make changes, moreso if an elite spec is broken and unpopular.

Of u think thats my stance on mirage then u dont know my stance on mirage.

[Refia Montes.3205]

Whatever your stance is... don't expect not to receive some flak after making a statement as "nerf Chrono" cause Chrono is already good as is, and is already pretty balanced compared to the current Elite Specs. Nobody wants Chrono to be nerfed only you. Yes, Mirage needs buffs but that doesn't mean Chrono needs some nerfs... it will just make Chrono useless.

[Exciton.8942]

Chrono is strong because it fixes a lot of core mesmer problems.

I am pretty sure if you only allow core professions in PvP, mesmer will be the worst by a sizeable margin.

Mirage has cool concepts but inherits core mesmer problems and some trait even amplifies the problem(infinite horizon). We have to face issues like how to keep clones alive; how to deal with the conflict between phantasms and clones; how to deal with the conflict between shatter and illusion power again.

If there should be any chrono nerf, it should be the continuum split. I don't see anything else too strong on chrono. However, if they do nerf CS, then they need to give back the power to some long CD skills of core mesmer, like moa and timewarp.

[zealex.9410]

@"Refia Montes.3205" said:Whatever your stance is... don't expect not to receive some flak after making a statement as "nerf Chrono" cause Chrono is already good as is, and is already pretty balanced compared to the current Elite Specs. Nobody wants Chrono to be nerfed only you. Yes, Mirage needs buffs but that doesn't mean Chrono needs some nerfs... it will just make Chrono useless.

I didnt say nerf chrono into oblivion but chrono and a few other specs clearly stand out from the rest. And sure i will take some flak if it makes sense.

[Abelisk.4527]

@Daishi.6027 said:It has positives, but all is vain.

We get Mobility, and a bit more doge. But our out put is no different than core Mesmer, which is pretty bad.Except maybe PvE is okay now cuz Phantasmal force, but even so Chrono does the same and offers more to a group.

I guess open world we can drop phants and kite better now, but that doesn't accomplish anything for the main end game rewarding parts of content.

Maybe Havoc in WvW will be fun? Maybe Soloing bosses will be more fun?

PvP will have uninterrupted actions that'll be cool, but apart from stomps it makes little difference other than saying you don't need to actively cover your phant summons and heal, cuz you can just doge. But phant summons shouldn't need to be covered as much as they are in the first place so lol.

Actually, core mesmer is taken for condi dps in raids, not Chrono. With Mirage, the expertise in Dune Shroud will almost be equivalent to the 30% expertise from Chaos (and even that isn't guaranteed), but with Dune Shroud bleeds are almost a given.

There could also be a shatter build incorporated with Mirage, plus you have axe with does extra condi. It'll be interesting testing Mirage on golems.

[Abelisk.4527]

@R E F L H E X.8413 said:I dont have much positive to say about it one weapon with three skills cant even interchange skills to power or condi replacements on the weapon set, like 4 new utilities that dont look great and require a traitline that has one good use (dodge cc) and the one class that could use an overhaul and benefit from having its f skills changed into something else is the one class thats remaining the same having to use clones and shatter them when a power build already doesnt support that gameplay very well like gs+sw/torch youre not a clone factory and would benefit from some kind of scourge/reaper makeover

If you have nothing positive to say then don't post something negative lol, OP's point is to make a thread unlike all the other hate/constructive posts on here.

[Esplen.3940]

@Abelisk.4527 said:Actually, core mesmer is taken for condi dps in raids, not Chrono. With Mirage, the expertise in Dune Shroud will almost be equivalent to the 30% expertise from Chaos (and even that isn't guaranteed), but with Dune Shroud bleeds are almost a given.

There could also be a shatter build incorporated with Mirage, plus you have axe with does extra condi. It'll be interesting testing Mirage on golems.

Chaos provides 100-270 Condition Damage (realistic 100), and 0-33% Condition Duration (realistic 9-21%, peak 27-33% only attained with Chaos boonshare Chronos, usually).Mirage provides conditional 150 Condition Damage (realistic uptime ??? not 100% though), and conditional 20% Conditional Duration (realistic uptime 100%).

Note: this post, like most of my posts, is PvE.

Also, Condi Mesmer is weaker than Power Mesmer in most encounters, and Mirage makes Condi Mesmer weaker unless taken solely for stats (Axe is a powerful weapon, but not being able to use Axe2 makes it significantly worse than Scepter). You can't slot Jaunt on many bosses because Moa is extremely necessary (people suck at cc).If Mirage is taken solely for stats, it's comparable to Chaos and the lack of dodge mobility ends up hurting more than it helps on most bosses (you have a smaller margin of error or window of mistakes). It also competes with the same line as Chaos as Illusions and Dueling add significantly more damage than Chaos or Mirage could with their options.

[Abelisk.4527]

Unlike mes, you can keep using skills when using Mirage Cloak (dodging). The superspeed can get you away from AoEs, but you will likely need to utilize aboutface or right-click strafing to use superspeed properly (as sidestepping and backstepping isn't effective with superspeed).

Also, Sand Shards does extra DPS, especially with viper the power damage coupled with the 2 stacks of bleeding will pile up. Mirage has very strong melee potential. I think that axe 2 needs to be a short evade, so that you can hit enemies with ease.

[Esplen.3940]

@Abelisk.4527 said:Unlike mes, you can keep using skills when using Mirage Cloak (dodging). The superspeed can get you away from AoEs, but you will likely need to utilize aboutface or right-click strafing to use superspeed properly (as sidestepping and backstepping isn't effective with superspeed).

So what is it. Can you get out of AoE's or keep using skills (what skills would you keep using? Auto attacks? Scepter3)?Also, the amount of keystrokes necessary to run forward in combat (not towards your enemies) is silly and an unrealistic expectation to place upon players. Aboutface doesn't instantly turn your character/camera around. If you hold w you'll make a spiral because it literally just turns your camera around as if you were to move your mouse really fast. We have 0.75s to do the dodge, so if we wanted to maximize the movement, you'd have to aboutface -> dodge -> forward movement or a similar setup with right click panning.

Also, Sand Shards does extra DPS, especially with viper the power damage coupled with the 2 stacks of bleeding will pile up. Mirage has very strong melee potential. I think that axe 2 needs to be a short evade, so that you can hit enemies with ease.

Sand Shards DPS bonus is negligible IF it even comes out. The range is slightly more than melee, although one of the advantages of Condi Mesmer is that they are not melee (see: Cairn, Deimos, Matthias mechanics) and therefore able to position safely or continue damage while focusing on positioning.

Assuming best case scenario (melee ranger, 5 GotL, Pinpoint Distribution, Banner of Strength, 25 might, 100% vigor uptime, 1 dodge roll every 7.5s), you get 679 dps, not counting the power damage (unrealistic to calculate due to boss Toughness).

679 dps if you:Maintain 100% uptime of every Condition Damage buff.Dodge as soon as it's available, everytime.Maintain 100% uptime of Vigor.Always dodge in melee.

And you could technically increase that by slotting in Deceptions for Mirrors, but those all drop your DPS (including Sand Shards), especially if you already have range.

Lastly: Axe2 may have an issue with evading, but that's not why it's a bad skill to use in Raids. It's bad because it spawns a clone, severely lowering your damage output.

Just to note: Pistol Phantasm has 12 stacks of Bleed every 6.6s, possibly faster with Quickness or Alacrity. 4 of these stacks are 6s duration (literally double the DPS of Sand Shards right there), while 8 of them are 5s duration (3.33x the damage of Sand Shards). So one Pistol Phantasm outputs ~5x the damage of a single Sand Shard not counting the power damage (which actually has coefficients). Oh, and you maintain 3 of these guys.

[Abelisk.4527]

It would be nice if they replaced the clone with some sort of axe phantasm, that would alleviate all the issues. Removing it would help too.

I think Sand Shards is mainly for bursting, so it would work in PvP/WvW. The power DPS on Sand Shards isn't that bad either.

[Esplen.3940]

@Abelisk.4527 said:It would be nice if they replaced the clone with some sort of axe phantasm, that would alleviate all the issues. Removing it would help too.

Mainhands don't get Phantasms, and the weapon does need a clone gen skill. The issue is that it spawns a clone when you don't want it to, and doesn't guarantee one when you do want it to.

I think Sand Shards is mainly for bursting, so it would work in PvP/WvW. The power DPS on Sand Shards isn't that bad either.

False. The power scaling is so low that you may as well auto attack. You also apply more conditions by doing just that.

[Abelisk.4527]

Well what if autoattack AND use Sand shards? 133 (0.5) which is around 1k damage on crit if going, say, Viper's.

I guess that is neglegible, and Elusive Mind is simply better, although the expertise is nice. Hmm...

[Esplen.3940]

Ok, then at best it's ~900 dps increase.

But at the cost of not having a dodge button it's not justified. It makes it unusable against all bosses where you'd even bring a Condi Mes over a Power Mes.

Keep in mind, 100% Vigor uptime is not something you'd be remotely close to having unless you ran something extremely off-meta like a boonshare deadeye. Additionally, GotL isn't usually kept at at 5 stacks with 100% uptime (definitely possible, but not realistic), and most groups also won't be running Engineers, so you won't have Pinpoint Distribution.

You're sacrificing an awful lot to get less than 1k dps.

[Daishi.6027]

I want to find positive things about Mirage.The concept of Mirage; I absolutely love.I love the theme.I love the skills, and the visuals.I love the idea that went into it...

Now maybe I'm just being hyperbolic,and maybe I just have an ignorant or shallow perspective.

But at the end of the day, it still feels inferior to Core thief in every other way, while trying to move in on the archetype, regardless of Condi or Power. And don't even get me started on the comparison with DD. ("Hey mes you want ur third doge?... yeah? yeah??... Well it's just wayyy over there! Go get it!.. Better yet, spend a cooldown on ur way!")

Now I'm happy thief thrives, this is nothing against them.And we don't need to BE them, but it does need to be effective, and it does need to have some coherent synergy that isn't self defeating.Because no matter how fun you make make it, it will cease to be such if it is not on par with the rest of the world.

I guess yes it can condi in raids.And maybe Condi Mirage in raid is going to be good, maybe even needed?But if that is the only destination where we are headed across the game types, I have to say I'm disappoint.

This clouds my ability to view positives.

[Abelisk.4527]

Raids have always been like that though.. you can literally run anything in open world.

[Miroe.2054]

I like mirage a lot. In GW1 i've played a distortion/illusory weapon Mesmer/Warrior. Here's a list:

1. There are now 3 times as many skills that cause retargeting
2. Which means "Acting as a clone" is now a viable strategy
3. Axe is capable of bursting people (2/2/3/shatter) as good as Greatsword (4/2/3/shatter).
4. Which means that I can now play "complete melee mesmer"
5. Which means superspeed on clones is not required anymore
6. huge leap with the sword ambush on a 10s cooldown. helps in jp's, gap closer, overall mobility
7. With Domination/Dueling/Mirage and mentioned sword ambush I can now stun on dodge.
8. Mirage mirror gives evasion, ambush skills and dishes out weakness in melee.
9. Which means my opponent will waste his attention waiting for me to crack it with jaunt just to lose me to a retarget skill 2s later.
10. This is an elite spec delivers more support for offensive play than chrono
11. This elite spec is more interesting for solo play and roaming than chrono (if I use a mount or traveller amulet)
12. Even if all 11 points above turn out to be practically ineffective, simply changing the numbers will fix it.

[Esplen.3940]

@Miroe.2054 said:I like mirage a lot. In GW1 i've played a distortion/illusory weapon Mesmer/Warrior. Here's a list:

1. There are now 3 times as many skills that cause retargeting
2. Which means "Acting as a clone" is now a viable strategy
3. Axe is capable of bursting people (2/2/3/shatter) as good as Greatsword (4/2/3/shatter).
4. Which means that I can now play "complete melee mesmer"
5. Which means superspeed on clones is not required anymore
6. huge leap with the sword ambush on a 10s cooldown. helps in jp's, gap closer, overall mobility
7. With Domination/Dueling/Mirage and mentioned sword ambush I can now stun on dodge.
8. Mirage mirror gives evasion, ambush skills and dishes out weakness in melee.
9. Which means my opponent will waste his attention waiting for me to crack it with jaunt just to lose me to a retarget skill 2s later.
10. This is an elite spec delivers more support for offensive play than chrono
11. This elite spec is more interesting for solo play and roaming than chrono (if I use a mount or traveller amulet)
12. Even if all 11 points above turn out to be practically ineffective, simply changing the numbers will fix it.

1. There are 2 skills that cause retarget, both of which are on Mirage. That's infinitely more.
2. That was how original Mesmer was supposed to be played, but it never took off because you can (and will) be able to spot the real one after a single action.
3. False. 423Shatter GS is instantaneous, 223Shatter takes 1.75s as well as not spawning Illusions if the target moves away from your initial casting points.
4. Considering Sword has been the strongest weapon Mesmer has since release of the game, you could always play complete melee Mesmer.
5. Superspeed on clones was never necessary, afaik.
6. You do not want a non-ground target leap for JP's. However, the mobility on it is very nice.
7. What's the dueling for? And that doesn't really have much to do with Mirage, it's simply Dom doing Dom things.
8. You're just listing out skill facts. What does that have to do with Mirage?
9. So you're going to play into his prediction?
10. That is false. Chronomancer gives you all of your offensive abilities twice.
11. This is an opinion, but we all have our own.
12. That is false. Changing numbers does not fix mechanical issues. Tempest was a support spec. It got numbers tweaked. Is it a good support spec?

[Miroe.2054]

@Esplen.3940 said:

1. There are 2 skills that cause retarget, both of which are on Mirage. That's infinitely more.
2. That was how original Mesmer was supposed to be played, but it never took off because you can (and will) be able to spot the real one after a single action.
3. False. 423Shatter GS is instantaneous, 223Shatter takes 1.75s as well as not spawning Illusions if the target moves away from your initial casting points.
4. Considering Sword has been the strongest weapon Mesmer has since release of the game, you could always play complete melee Mesmer.
5. Superspeed on clones was never necessary, afaik.
6. You do not want a non-ground target leap for JP's. However, the mobility on it is very nice.
7. What's the dueling for? And that doesn't really have much to do with Mirage, it's simply Dom doing Dom things.
8. You're just listing out skill facts. What does that have to do with Mirage?
9. So you're going to play into his prediction?
10. That is false. Chronomancer gives you all of your offensive abilities twice.
11. This is an opinion, but we all have our own.
12. That is false. Changing numbers does not fix mechanical issues. Tempest was a support spec. It got numbers tweaked. Is it a good support spec?

1. Yea you're right, I thought decoy would also retarget. It doesn't
2. There are still times in PvP when someone will be fooled by a solitary clone. Increasing that chance is a plus in my book.
3. He would have to shadowstep or move along the direction of your attack despite cripple and torment and then stand in mirage #2. Also your opponent sees the berserker/projectile coming and you can't delay the burst from that point. And there is also the fee off hand on axe and whatever that is doing. It's also a burst weapon with some pro's and con's.
4. Sword doesn't do a whole lot of damage. It primarily lets you survive in melee. And if you have no secondary main hand you waste a lot of cd's and adaptability.
5. (EDIT: The Forum doesnt let me skip numbers in lists, when saving a comment they will re-assign themselves)
6. (EDIT)
7. Dueling for Deceptive evasion, Mirage for shared cloak and ambushes, so the sword clones do the daze leap and domination to turn daze into stun.
8. Mirage mirror is the Mirage exclusive pick up item. I'm listing the advantages of it.
9. Yes, somehow people see the necessity to pick up the mirror as a weakness that allows counterplay. For which the Mirage has built in skills to counterplay the counterplay
10. How will you fit all of your abilities into 6 seconds? Exept most of your clone generating skills of course because they are used up by then. Also 75-106 seconds cooldown. Compare this with offensive doges, ambush skills, new engage skills and a burst weapon.
11. Okay then let's just say it has way more combat mobility and the ability to choose your battles.
12. Umm, yes? You can play healing Tempest in raids. The reason tempest is not played as much is because it is not better than druid. The more elite specs come into the game and the more support builds will rival for the raid spots. That does not make the increasing number of support specs that are not currently raid meta bad.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Miroe.2054 said:

2. There are still times in PvP when someone will be fooled by a solitary clone. Increasing that chance is a plus in my book.

No, not in any game mode or skill level where this would be of any significance.

Sure, you can rofl stomp over inexperienced players all you want, Daredevils who 1-shot ambush (from an inexperienced players perspective) or Dragonhunters or any class with gimmick burst can do as well. Doesn't mean all classes get balanced around that level of skill though.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for the original idea of Mesmer to work, but that will never be the case with this level of AI ingame.

[Esplen.3940]

@Miroe.2054 said:I like mirage a lot. In GW1 i've played a distortion/illusory weapon Mesmer/Warrior. Here's a list:

1. There are now 3 times as many skills that cause retargeting
2. There are 2 skills that cause retarget, both of which are on Mirage. That's infinitely more.
3. Yea you're right, I thought decoy would also retarget. It doesn't
5. Which means "Acting as a clone" is now a viable strategy
6. That was how original Mesmer was supposed to be played, but it never took off because you can (and will) be able to spot the real one after a single action.
7. There are still times in PvP when someone will be fooled by a solitary clone. Increasing that chance is a plus in my book.
8. If they're that bad, then it won't matter what shiny new tools you get. As for players who aren't new to PvP, you can spot the real Mesmer/Mirage pretty quickly as the clones can only auto attack and ambush. Additionally, both of the illusion retarget abilities work smoother on clones than the player, making it distinctly obvious who the real player is without exceptional reaction time/play by the Mirage. And again, as soon as you do another action, it's obvious who the real one is. Note that no action is an action and will make you obvious, as will attacking as clones attack at a different rate than players.
9. Axe is capable of bursting people (2/2/3/shatter) as good as Greatsword (4/2/3/shatter).
10. False. 423Shatter GS is instantaneous, 223Shatter takes 1.75s as well as not spawning Illusions if the target moves away from your initial casting points.
11. He would have to shadowstep or move along the direction of your attack despite cripple and torment and then stand in mirage #2. Also your opponent sees the berserker/projectile coming and you can't delay the burst from that point. And there is also the fee off hand on axe and whatever that is doing. It's also a burst weapon with some pro's and con's.
12. No, he would have to simply take 1 step in any direction except the direction you initiated Axe2 to prevent the clone from spawning. Additionally, the GS burst does not require a Phantasm spawn to work and
    is instantaneous
    . Yes, Axe has a "free offhand", but for Condi burst, the options are Torch/Pistol.
13. Which means that I can now play "complete melee mesmer"
14. Considering Sword has been the strongest weapon Mesmer has since release of the game, you could always play complete melee Mesmer.
15. Sword doesn't do a whole lot of damage. It primarily lets you survive in melee. And if you have no secondary main hand you waste a lot of cd's and adaptability.
16. Umm... Sword is quite literally our strongest direct damage weapon set, along with having the most versatility, strengths, and fewest weaknesses. There's a reason why it has been dominating the PvE meta since release and has been used in many PvP and WvW setups. The only drawback is it's melee and has no condi application. Inversely, axe is melee and has no power application (as of pre-PoF numbers).
17. Which means superspeed on clones is not required anymore
18. Superspeed on clones was never necessary, afaik.
19. (EDIT: The Forum doesnt let me skip numbers in lists, when saving a comment they will re-assign themselves)
21. huge leap with the sword ambush on a 10s cooldown. helps in jp's, gap closer, overall mobility
22. You do not want a non-ground target leap for JP's. However, the mobility on it is very nice.
23. (EDIT)
25. With Domination/Dueling/Mirage and mentioned sword ambush I can now stun on dodge.
26. What's the dueling for? And that doesn't really have much to do with Mirage, it's simply Dom doing Dom things.
27. Dueling for Deceptive evasion, Mirage for shared cloak and ambushes, so the sword clones do the daze leap and domination to turn daze into stun.
28. Clones don't get your traits, so your clones will be Dazing. Additionally, Dazes and Stuns do not stack duration. This wouldn't be a huge issue (see: Diversion staggering) if not for the fact that Leaps and staggering AI is nigh impossible. Also, the clones can get caught on terrain pretty easily (there's a reason why Sword3 no longer causes a clone to Leap and instead spawns them next to opponents).
29. Mirage mirror gives evasion, ambush skills and dishes out weakness in melee.
30. You're just listing out skill facts. What does that have to do with Mirage?
31. Mirage mirror is the Mirage exclusive pick up item. I'm listing the advantages of it.
32. The disadvantage is that it's a pick-up item and, because it lasts for 4 seconds, telegraphs your path. Pair that with you trying to act like a clone but getting random positioning means that you end up fighting against the purpose of pretending to be a clone. Mirrors are not a substitute for Endurance Regen yet are expected to be just that. At the end of the day, they're predictable and that's not good when you're trying to play mindgames.
33. Which means my opponent will waste his attention waiting for me to crack it with jaunt just to lose me to a retarget skill 2s later.
34. So you're going to play into his prediction?
35. Yes, somehow people see the necessity to pick up the mirror as a weakness that allows counterplay. For which the Mirage has built in skills to counterplay the counterplay
36. Like what? You can't counterplay the fact that they see a Mirror. If you decide that you want to use Axe3 after grabbing the Mirror, you can't Ambush and you waste most of the evade frames using your retarget ability. If you wait until after you use your ambush, they can just ignore it (axe) or just start attacking you. I'm not 100% sure on this interaction but if they start casting an ability on you, it might still finish on you when you use retargets, as long as they don't target a clone. It might depend on combat options and may be completely impossible. I didn't test this interaction and have no need to for PvE.
37. This is an elite spec delivers more support for offensive play than chrono
38. That is false. Chronomancer gives you all of your
    offensive
    abilities twice.
39. How will you fit all of your abilities into 6 seconds? Exept most of your clone generating skills of course because they are used up by then. Also 75-106 seconds cooldown. Compare this with offensive doges, ambush skills, new engage skills and a burst weapon.
40. You don't use all your abilities in 6 seconds. You use all the abilities you need or want at the time. Also, with Quickness you can get 9 abilities out in 6 seconds. Mesmer doesn't have long abilities. The longest cast time on an ability is a Mantra, which you shouldn't be charging during CS because it reverts back to Mantra afterward. Ignoring them and blocking abilities, the longest cast time on Mesmer is 2s with Confusing Images, followed by 1¼s on certain utilities and 1¾s with Spear (oh boy, underwater CS). With Quickness, you have more than enough time to cast what you need and sometimes enough to cast something else on top of that.
41. This elite spec is more interesting for solo play and roaming than chrono (if I use a mount or traveller amulet)
42. This is an opinion, but we all have our own.
43. Okay then let's just say it has way more combat mobility and the ability to choose your battles.
44. Except it doesn't. It doesn't gain any options that allow it to cherry pick battles. The "combat mobility" it gains is not a gain, it simply overwrites previous combat mobility (Sword leaps replaced with Axe dash, Blinks replaced with IA/MA, dodging replaced with Jaunt). And while, in some cases, you can run both, you end up hurting your build significantly. This argument reminds me of a mythical 30/30/30/30/30 Mesmer build that once dominated the PvP meta. You can choose your options before combat and have this or that. Mirage does not change that by giving you this and that.
45. Even if all 11 points above turn out to be practically ineffective, simply changing the numbers will fix it.
46. That is false. Changing numbers does not fix mechanical issues. Tempest was a support spec. It got numbers tweaked. Is it a good support spec?
47. Umm, yes? You can play healing Tempest in raids. The reason tempest is not played as much is because it is not better than druid. The more elite specs come into the game and the more support builds will rival for the raid spots. That does not make the increasing number of support specs that are not currently raid meta bad.
48. If you're talking about Elemental Bastion healing tempest, yes it works and it improves upon what a healing elementalist can do, however Tempest is and was not a good support line, so it got numbers tweaked. This resulted in it becoming a damage boost to most fights compared to core elementalist. Healing is not the only role of a support, and I would call it a bit hard to say that the purpose of Tempest as a support spec was to become a healer. If you look at what Tempest actually gives in terms of supporting and healing, it's all on really long cooldowns. The healing is mostly already there from core and what it gains is some utility on awkwardly long cooldowns, paired with traits that give minimal supportive bonuses.

Something something too much time on your hands, Esplen.

[FaboBabo.3581]

Are ppl really thinking Mirrage has less mobility then Chrono?Ok we gotta go through it; On Paper Chrono has more movementspeed, but he reaches the bonus movespeed cap - > Traveler runes won't higher it.

So lets put movespeed runes on Mirrage. Now we got the same movespeed in general. Now chrono has the 300 unit dodgeroll every 10 seconds. Mirrage has the 600 units sword ambush every 10 seconds. Chrono has Blink. Mirrage still has Blink too. Chrono has phase retreat. Mirrage has Phase retreat. Chrono has nothing more. Mirrage has Jaunt. Mirrage has Illusionary Ambush. Mirrage has Mirage advance.

As long as your building for it (with movepseed runes) Mirrage will have 100% more mobility then Chrono.If we DONT take Movespeed runes on Mirrage, we gotta go through a long Maths, im really not intereseted in.

To finish ; Jumps/Blinks etc are in most cases the better movement then just running, which makes me very happing getting a lot of that, and not a boring 25% movement, which i could get from runes if im interested.

[Esplen.3940]

@FaboBabo.3581 said:Are ppl really thinking Mirrage has less mobility then Chrono?Ok we gotta go through it; On Paper Chrono has more movementspeed, but he reaches the bonus movespeed cap - > Traveler runes won't higher it.

So lets put movespeed runes on Mirrage. Now we got the same movespeed in general. Now chrono has the 300 unit dodgeroll every 10 seconds. Mirrage has the 600 units sword ambush every 10 seconds. Chrono has Blink. Mirrage still has Blink too. Chrono has phase retreat. Mirrage has Phase retreat. Chrono has nothing more. Mirrage has Jaunt. Mirrage has Illusionary Ambush. Mirrage has Mirage advance.

As long as your building for it (with movepseed runes) Mirrage will have 100% more mobility then Chrono.If we DONT take Movespeed runes on Mirrage, we gotta go through a long Maths, im really not intereseted in.

To finish ; Jumps/Blinks etc are in most cases the better movement then just running, which makes me very happing getting a lot of that, and not a boring 25% movement, which i could get from runes if im interested.

Technically you have more mobility as a Chrono with CS.You can do 6 blinks with 2 utilities and a Staff.

Mirage and Core Mesmer can't get anywhere close to that mobility.

The rotation is: Mimic -> CS during aftercast (otherwise it will be on full CD, it has a long aftercast) -> Blink x1 or x2 -> Phase Retreat (as CS ends) -> (If Mimic is up Blink again) -> Phase Retreat + Mimic -> Blink x2

for more details.

[Conncept.7638]

Devs: "Here are new deception skills, only one is really deceptive though, the rest require you to walk into a node to get the mirage effect that is supposed to confuse people with your clones, and clones don't just walk around. Heck, several of the skills even point you out as the player. Oh, and they all summon mirrors."

Players: "Why not just call them mirror skills then? Or, how about we have them maintain the "lost among your clones" thing instead of having them break it?"

Devs: "What? Why would we do that?"

[Esplen.3940]

They tried to merge classes in gen2 elites to give us "multiclasses". Mirrors would be neat, but we have a skill called Mirror and it's already confusing enough (why would Mirror not be a Mirror).But ANet decided that they should be called Deceptions because of the name, not the functionality. I suppose they also took Mirage Advance and copy pasted Shadowstep but then nerfed it (???) because reasons.

Honestly, they're more similar to Tricks than Deceptions.Trick is a type of skill type that provide various cunning maneuvers.Deception is a skill type focusing on stealth and avoiding damage.

Of course, the actual utilities end up being just rehashes of Manipulation skills, but they can't say that they gave us the same skills twice.

Manipulation is a skill type used to evade attacks, mislead opponents, redirect forces or to simply escape from a deadly situation. Many of these skills focus on the aspect of control, turning what could have been a player's end into an opponent's undoing.

Either way, we're stuck with Deceptions now, whether or not they're actually Deceptions (or deceptive).

[glenndevis.8327]

I think the ambushes (if balanced/buffed) are an interesting mechanic.Detargetting is cool (but we need more access to it.)