Why are necros so weak. Is this a joke? Is Anet blind?

[mortrialus.3062]

https://i.imgur.com/hDGRVhk.jpg

 

8.5k auto attacks aren't nearly enough. 

 

This wasn't even like they had focused me and had their team charged with 25 might while their team stacked up 25 vulnerability on me and then went for the kill in a coordinated burst.  They were chasing a teammate and unintentionally cleaved me for more than half my base health. 

 

Seriously, my class's optimal build does literally 700 damage on auto attack with max investment, when you add clones and their reduced attack speed to the equation its effectively 1400 if you have clones attacking.  Meanwhile necros are straight up hitting for 8.5k on auto attack chains. 

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Boons go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
A-net should simply change max self-stacking might to 10 and additional 10 from outside sources like friends for total of 20.
Sometimes you play this game and wonder if this damage is even possible, because when you try it you'll deal like 40% of it most of the time.

[trunks.5249]

42 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

https://i.imgur.com/hDGRVhk.jpg

 

8.5k auto attacks aren't nearly enough. 

 

This wasn't even like they had focused me and had their team charged with 25 might while their team stacked up 25 vulnerability on me and then went for the kill in a coordinated burst.  They were chasing a teammate and unintentionally cleaved me for more than half my base health. 

 

Seriously, my class's optimal build does literally 700 damage on auto attack with max investment, when you add clones and their reduced attack speed to the equation its effectively 1400 if you have clones attacking.  Meanwhile necros are straight up hitting for 8.5k on auto attack chains. 

 

then you got the wrong build going. i have seen nercro wipe out teams before. i have seen crazy tank builds.. that being said i have also seen necro die super fast. it all depends on your build and skill set

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

To get hit with 9k on a blood reaper means you have to have 25 vulnerable, chilled, no protection, probably wearing light armor with no defense mods at all…
 

You make that obvious by conveniently hiding the rest of your screen.

 

Also you yourself are playing Scourge. You know that the reason people play reaper is because tanky scourge builds exist and reapers are the only way to kill them

Edited July 23, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Just a little math here because i want to end this definitively with no arguments:

 

Let's say you were fighting an opposing Blood Magic Reaper:

Spite/Blood Magic/Reaper

 

1100 (Max damage on a level 80 Reaper with an ascended greatsword)

1.13 Damage coefficient for Life Reap

3200 Power (Berserker Amulet with Eagle Runes, and 25 Traited Might stacks)

3.37 Modfiers (Eagle Runes Modifier+25 Vulnerability + Spiteful Talisman[meaning you have 0 boons] + Cold Shoulder + Soul Eater + Sigil of Compounding [meaning you have 12 conditions] + Sigil of Exploitation

1880 Armor (The lowest possible armor you can have...meaning no toughness, and light armor, and no damage reduction modifiers at all.)

 

1100*1.13*3200*3.37/1880 = 7,130

 

Now...I don't know what else you'd have to do to take 8,500 damage on a blood magic reaper...but this probably means that the reaper wasn't actually blood magic...that in actuality, the opposing enemy scourge was blood magic, and you were being attacked from a full on zerk reaper using SoulReaping/Spite/Reaper, which would mean

 

1100*1.13*3200 *3.67/1880 =7764

 

Even this isn't enough damage. The only possible way is to have an extra 300 power (for a total of 3500 power, which could come from teammates providing stat buffs. 1100*1.13*3500 *3.67/1880 =8492,

 

Alternatively if the match was played in colosseum with the attack buff, that would make the reaper do 9-10k Life Reaps (which assumes the attack buff doesn't count as a modifier, but instead a straight up 20% increase in global damage!)

 

In conclusion, this is quiet possibly the highest possible damage you could every take from a Life Reap, in the most ideal conditions imaginable.

Edited July 23, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[anjo.6143]

18 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Just a little math here because i want to end this definitively with no arguments:

 

Let's say you were fighting an opposing Blood Magic Reaper:

Spite/Blood Magic/Reaper

 

1100 (A level 80 Reaper with an ascended greatsword)

1.13 Damage coefficient for Life Reap

3200 Power (Berserker Amulet with Eagle Runes, and 25 Traited Might stacks)

3.37 Modfiers (Eagle Runes Modifier+25 Vulnerability + Spiteful Talisman[meaning you have 0 boons] + Cold Shoulder + Soul Eater + Sigil of Compounding [meaning you have 12 conditions] + Sigil of Exploitation

1880 Armor (The lowest possible armor you can have...meaning no toughness, and light armor, and no damage reduction modifiers at all.)

 

1100*1.13*3200*3.37/1880 = 7,130

 

Now...I don't know what else you'd have to do to take 8,500 damage on a blood magic reaper...but this probably means that the reaper wasn't actually blood magic...that in actuality, the opposing enemy scourge was blood magic, and you were being attacked from a full on zerk reaper using SoulReaping/Spite/Reaper, which would mean

 

1100*1.13*3200 *3.67/1880 =7764

 

Even this isn't enough damage. The only possible way is to have an extra 300 power (for a total of 3500 power, which could come from teammates providing stat buffs. 1100*1.13*3500 *3.67/1880 =8492,

 

Alternatively if the match was played in colosseum with the attack buff, that would make the reaper do 9-10k Life Reaps (which assumes the attack buff doesn't count as a modifier, but instead a straight up 20% increase in global damage!)

 

In conclusion, this is quiet possibly the highest possible damage you could every take from a Life Reap, in the most ideal conditions imaginable.

 

This is supposed to mean reaper does low damage? 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

10 minutes ago, anjo.6143 said:

 

This is supposed to mean reaper does low damage? 

 

In order to do that kind of damage on a reaper, you need to be full and i mean full on zerker...the opponent has to have 12 conditions, including 25 stacks of vulnerability, no buffs and light armor with no modifers, while you have to have 25 might, power buffs from allies and meet all the requirements for the damage modifiers...and maybe even colosseum buffs.

 

By taking these modifiers, it also means your team has to generate the majority of the conditions, like vulnerability, which is hard to apply on a full zerk reaper without swapping damage mod traits for condition application traits.

 

In other words, this is the type of damage you would expect when smacking a raid boss or a golem in a raid scenario. If that happens to you in PVP well...i hate to say this but it's L2P.

 

Does Reaper do a lot of autoattack damage? Yes if you stand around like a golem, you are gonna get hit by  big auto's. If you actually move around, give yourself buffs, and cleanse your conditions, and kite, you're not going to get hit by a 3rd in-series auto attack for 10k.

Edited July 23, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

In order to do that kind of damage on a reaper, you need to be full and i mean full on zerker...the opponent has to have 12 conditions, including 25 stacks of vulnerability, no buffs and light armor with no modifers, while you have to have 25 might, power buffs from allies and meet all the requirements for the damage modifiers...and maybe even colosseum buffs.

 

By taking these modifiers, it also means your team has to generate the majority of the conditions, like vulnerability, which is hard to apply on a full zerk reaper without swapping damage mod traits for condition application traits.

 

In other words, this is the type of damage you would expect when smacking a raid boss or a golem in a raid scenario. If that happens to you in PVP well...i hate to say this but it's L2P.

 

Does Reaper do a lot of autoattack damage? Yes if you stand around like a golem, you are gonna get hit by  big auto's. If you actually move around, give yourself buffs, and cleanse your conditions, and kite, you're not going to get hit by a 3rd in-series auto attack for 10k.

To be fair, if it is eagle runs, and exploitation sigil a Spite/Soulreaping/Reaper at 25 might stacks + chill can hit 9k on a light armor target without sigil of compounding or vulnerability so long as they are under 50% HP. Over 50% hp its more like 6.7k hp.

With compounding (12 conditions) and 25 vulnerability the same target would take ~13k hp below 50% hp, 9.3k above 50% hp. So OP taking 8.8k sounds about right if they did not have Chill on them.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

7 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

To be fair, if it is eagle runs, and exploitation sigil a Spite/Soulreaping/Reaper at 25 might stacks + chill can hit 9k on a light armor target without sigil of compounding or vulnerability so long as they are under 50% HP. Over 50% hp its more like 6.7k hp.

With compounding (12 conditions) and 25 vulnerability the same target would take ~13k hp below 50% hp, 9.3k above 50% hp. So OP taking 8.8k sounds about right if they did not have Chill on them.

 

lol...and what equation would you be using to get those numbers exactly?

 

I don't mean to be aggressive, but it's really annoying when people just shout random numbers based on hunches. Go and do the math yourself, and go and confirm those in-game. I've mained reaper for like 3 years. I know how much damage they are capable of doing, and 13k auto's is impossible to do without ALL of the constraints named above AND the opponent has to be naked AND you need the colosseum buff...which assumes the buff doesn't count as a damage modifier (which it probably is).

Edited July 23, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Dadnir.5038]

5 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Seriously, my class's optimal build does literally 700 damage on auto attack with max investment,

Unless you're using a condi build there is no profession that's caped at such amount of damage with "max investment". And it would be foolish to compare a condi build strike damages to a power build strike damages.

 

In a similar situation to your's, with max investment, Mind spike (Mesmer's sword's 3rd AA strike) would have been able to go beyond 9k on a foe without boons in sPvP for example. (Not even looking at the clones damage because they are negligible anyway)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3OSXmNaA-zZIPj4lAFsAMxA

Spiteful Talisman: 10%

Close to Death: 20%

Soul Barbs: 10%

Soul Eater: 10%

Cold Shoulder: 10%

Eagle Runes: 10%

Exploitation: 5%

Crit Damage in Shroud: 265%

Life Reap vs 2000 armor target: 1722

 

1.1*1.2*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.05*2.65 = 5.37749289‬
5.37749289‬ * 1722 = 9260.04275658

 

With 25 vulnerability:

9260.04275658*1.25 = 11,575.053445725‬ (not including sigil of compounding here)

with Sigil of Compounding and 2 conditions: 11,806.5545146395‬

With 12 conditions: 12,964.059859212‬

 

All assuming target is below 50%. For targets above 50% reduce the numbers by 38.6%

No coliseum buff needed, just a glass cannon target without protection and you doing what reapers do best, stack self might and vuln on the target then go into shroud and 111111 spam.

 

If I give you numbers, its because I already brought up the builder, made the build, and did the full damage calculation.

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[Bear.9568]

6 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

To get hit with 9k on a blood reaper means you have to have 25 vulnerable, chilled, no protection, probably wearing light armor with no defense mods at all…
 

You make that obvious by conveniently hiding the rest of your screen.

 

Also you yourself are playing Scourge. You know that the reason people play reaper is because tanky scourge builds exist and reapers are the only way to kill them

 

-Armor does not matter in pvp, it's an amulet based system. 

-25 stacks of vulnerability in 3's is ridiculous, just shows the over application of conditions.

-People play reaper because it's a brain dead build along with the rest of the class. 

 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3OSXmNaA-zZIPj4lAFsAMxA

Spiteful Talisman: 10%

Close to Death: 20%

Soul Barbs: 10%

Soul Eater: 10%

Cold Shoulder: 10%

Eagle Runes: 10%

Exploitation: 5%

Crit Damage in Shroud: 265%

Life Reap vs 2000 armor target: 1722

 

1.1*1.2*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.05*2.65 = 5.37749289‬
5.37749289‬ * 1722 = 9260.04275658

 

With 25 vulnerability:

9260.04275658*1.25 = 11,575.053445725‬ (not including sigil of compounding here)

with Sigil of Compounding and 2 conditions: 11,806.5545146395‬

With 12 conditions: 12,964.059859212‬

 

All assuming target is below 50%. For targets above 50% reduce the numbers by 38.6%

No coliseum buff needed, just a glass cannon target without protection and you doing what reapers do best, stack self might and vuln on the target then go into shroud and 111111 spam.

 

If I give you numbers, its because I already brought up the builder, made the build, and did the full damage calculation.

 

and this is not the equation on the wiki.

 

its weapon damage*skill coefficient*Power stat*damage modifiers divided by armor*damage reduction modifiers

 

There is a Pemdas you aren’t following, and that’s why your numbers are completely wrong.

 

You can even go and confirm it. You are gonna barely scratch 7k on a light armor golem

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

and this is not the equation on the wiki.

 

its weapon damage*skill coefficient*Power stat*damage modifiers divided by armor*damage reduction modifiers

 

There is a Pemdas you aren’t following, and that’s why your numbers are completely wrong.

 

You can even go and confirm it. You are gonna barely scratch 7k on a light armor golem

weapon damage*skill coefficient*Power/Armor is where the 1722 Life Reap comes from everything else is crit damage*Damage modifiers.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

weapon damage*skill coefficient*Power/Armor is where the 1722 Life Reap comes from everything else is crit damage*Damage modifiers.

That’s not correct. All damage modifiers are treated before dividing by armor and defensive modifiers. I’ve actually stated before on another thread that the wiki doesn’t explicitly make that clear and someone points that out in the discussion section of the wiki.

 

you’re  also treating vulnerability as if it’s not a damage modifier…and it’s treated before dividing. 
 

Again you can go and confirm your own numbers. Your not gonna hit 13k with a Life Reap on a paper golem. It’s gonna be in the range of 7-8k

 

 

[RedAvenged.5217]

3 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Just a little math here because i want to end this definitively with no arguments:

 

Let's say you were fighting an opposing Blood Magic Reaper:

Spite/Blood Magic/Reaper

 

1100 (Max damage on a level 80 Reaper with an ascended greatsword)

1.13 Damage coefficient for Life Reap

3200 Power (Berserker Amulet with Eagle Runes, and 25 Traited Might stacks)

3.37 Modfiers (Eagle Runes Modifier+25 Vulnerability + Spiteful Talisman[meaning you have 0 boons] + Cold Shoulder + Soul Eater + Sigil of Compounding [meaning you have 12 conditions] + Sigil of Exploitation

1880 Armor (The lowest possible armor you can have...meaning no toughness, and light armor, and no damage reduction modifiers at all.)

 

1100*1.13*3200*3.37/1880 = 7,130

 

Now...I don't know what else you'd have to do to take 8,500 damage on a blood magic reaper...but this probably means that the reaper wasn't actually blood magic...that in actuality, the opposing enemy scourge was blood magic, and you were being attacked from a full on zerk reaper using SoulReaping/Spite/Reaper, which would mean

 

1100*1.13*3200 *3.67/1880 =7764

 

Even this isn't enough damage. The only possible way is to have an extra 300 power (for a total of 3500 power, which could come from teammates providing stat buffs. 1100*1.13*3500 *3.67/1880 =8492,

 

Alternatively if the match was played in colosseum with the attack buff, that would make the reaper do 9-10k Life Reaps (which assumes the attack buff doesn't count as a modifier, but instead a straight up 20% increase in global damage!)

 

In conclusion, this is quiet possibly the highest possible damage you could every take from a Life Reap, in the most ideal conditions imaginable.

Just so you know spite isn’t gonna add much damage at least with the meta traits-

you will probably go against a soul reaping reaper with +10% dmg during shroud and maybe also the trait that adds 300 ferocity.

 

On top of that some people might also be spite with the lesser common traits such as +20% dmg when under 50% hp.

 

this isn’t too unbelievable 

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

9 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Just so you know spite isn’t gonna add much damage at least with the meta traits-

you will probably go against a soul reaping reaper with +10% dmg during shroud and maybe also the trait that adds 300 ferocity.

 

On top of that some people might also be spite with the lesser common traits such as +20% dmg when under 50% hp.

 

this isn’t too unbelievable 

the spite is for trained Might which gives you an extra 250 power, as well as the ability to stack might in the first place. Spite basically gives you 30% damage modifiers+ 250 extra might, and the actual ability to give yourself might at all. This is more than 300 ferocity (20%)+the 10%major trait in SR if you were to choose between the two

 

In terms of build craft, taking spite means low critical chance, which is why nobody takes spite+blood.

 

the build with spite + blood is more generous because we assume you are critically striking…and it’s no where close to the actual meta, which you will typically see 3-4K life reaps max.

 

again go and test it out in game yourself. Numbers don’t lie, you can’t hit anywhere close to 13k on a paper golem unless you are full on zerk and meet a bunch of requirements

Edited July 23, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[RedAvenged.5217]

3 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

the spite is for trained Might which gives you an extra 250 power, as well as the ability to stack might in the first place. Spite basically gives you 30% damage modifiers+ 250 extra might, and the actual ability to give yourself might at all. This is more than 300 ferocity (20%)+the 10%major trait in SR if you were to choose between the two

 

In terms of build craft, taking spite means low critical chance, which is why nobody takes spite+blood.

 

the build with spite + blood is more generous…and it’s still no where close to the actual meta, which you will typically see 3-4K life reaps max.

 

again go and test it out in game yourself. Numbers don’t lie, you can’t hit anywhere close to 13k on a paper golem unless you are full on zerk and meet a bunch of requirements

You realize you can get might without the trait that only gives 5 might right?

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

6 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

You realize you can get might without the trait that only gives 5 might right?

How does the meta BM Reaper give themselves might?

 

also you can check my hypothesis is correct because you can see in the linked image, the blurred out names are from different players (one is a longer name the other a shorter name) meaning that the reaper wasn’t blood magic landing vampirism procs, it was the scourge.

[RedAvenged.5217]

Just now, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

How does the meta BM Reaper give themselves might?

 

also you can check my hypothesis is correct because you can see in the linked image, the blurred out names are from different players (one is a longer name the other a shorter name) meaning that the reaper wasn’t blood magic landing vampirism procs, it was the scourge.

If you are in a team fight it’s not uncommon to get max might.

 

I do believe you are leaving some stuff out- I don’t remember seeing you add in 10% from soul eater. I also don’t see the point in claiming it’s blood and spite- as as far as meta goes you could actually get away with spite top mid top and soul reaping top top mid as long as you have support. And this will have ez access to max might and vuln in team fights

 

anyways your calculations are fine but you left some stuff out and the guy has screens of it hitting harder than you say is the maximum- so I don’t really see what the point of the calculation is

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

27 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

That’s not correct. All damage modifiers are treated before dividing by armor and defensive modifiers. I’ve actually stated before on another thread that the wiki doesn’t explicitly make that clear and someone points that out in the discussion section of the wiki.

 

 

You do realize that multiplying a fraction by another number is no different that multiplying just the numerator by that number and then dividing by the denominator right?

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

5 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

I do believe you are leaving some stuff out- I don’t remember seeing you add in 10% from soul eater. I also don’t see the point in claiming it’s blood and spite- as as far as meta goes you could actually get away with spite top mid top and soul reaping top top mid as long as you have support. And this will have ez access to max might and vuln in team fights

 

I literally said this 

 

JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

3.37 Modfiers (Eagle Runes Modifier+25 Vulnerability + Spiteful Talisman[meaning you have 0 boons] + Cold Shoulder + Soul Eater + Sigil of Compounding [meaning you have 12 conditions] + Sigil of Exploitation

 

JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Now...I don't know what else you'd have to do to take 8,500 damage on a blood magic reaper...but this probably means that the reaper wasn't actually blood magic...that in actuality, the opposing enemy scourge was blood magic, and you were being attacked from a full on zerk reaper using SoulReaping/Spite/Reaper, which would mean...

 

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You do realize that multiplying a fraction by another number is no different that multiplying just the numerator by that number and then dividing by the denominator right?

Your telling me there is no difference between what you and I did and yet we have completely different answers? 
 

The mistake you made is that you’re not supposed to multiply damage modifiers. Your supposed to add them, because damage modifiers are additive.

 

Say you had 10 , 30 and 60 percent damage modifiers. 
 

doing 1.1*1.3*1.6 gives you 228% or 2.28 which is wrong.

 

You are supposed to add damage modifiers like this

 

10%+30%+60% = 100% or 1.0<——and that’s the number that goes into the equation.

Edited July 23, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Well, imgur is having server errors so I cant get you my screen shot (I'll try again later), but my Life Slash is hitting for 6985 on the Light Golem in the PvP lobby and it is roughly half the strength of Life Reap... So looks like that my 13k figure is more correct than you thought there mate.

 

(For those that don't know Life Slash is the second part of the Reaper Shroud AA Chain and has a coefficient of 0.613. Life Reap is 1.13)

FWIW the only damage modifiers that are additive are those from sigils, and potions/utilities. Modifiers from runes, and traits are multiplicative.

You were right that I'd never hit the light golem for that 13k though, kitten thing dies before I can.

Edit: Life-Slash Got the link.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

(For those that don't know Life Slash is the second part of the Reaper Shroud AA Chain and has a coefficient of 0.613. Life Reap is 1.13)
 

So you think that having twice the damage coefficient means you’ll do twice the damage? Lol