Thief Elite Specialization Prediction & Speculation Discussion

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

 E-spec actually bring things from other prof. So boon corrup can be possible

Not to mention that thief already has boonsteal, so it would be augmenting something that already existed.

 

Stealing a karka's prot, stab and retal was hilarious back in the day.

[AikijinX.6258]

11 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It's reasoning that falls down as soon as you remember that there's nothing preventing the elite specialisation from using any other scepter in the game. No existing elite specialisation weapon is used in a way where the skills involved only makes sense when specifically using the skin that came with the elite specialisation. 

Yeah, it can be something like bladesworn and their perma gunblade

Edited October 5, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[Geoff Fey.1035]

2 hours ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

It's reasoning that falls down as soon as you remember that there's nothing preventing the elite specialisation from using any other scepter in the game. No existing elite specialisation weapon is used in a way where the skills involved only makes sense when specifically using the skin that came with the elite specialisation. 

There's a couple skins that already look  odd when used by any profession.

Don't forget Thief already set a precedent of using existing skins in a weird way when Daredevil first came out we only had Gandalf-style staves (only 2 truly melee style staves were Bo & Daredevil Staff). Ascalonian Staff (among others) could be considered a "melee" staff, but staves in concept were originally all spellcaster and Daredevil upset that applecart (with Revenant tagging along).

 

[draxynnic.3719]

21 hours ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

Yeah, it can be something like bladesworn and their perma gunblade

If that would be the case, it would be its own special weapon rather than a scepter. That said, we know thief is getting scepter unless there's been a sharp turn since the first beta, and that looks like a scepter, so Occam's razor says it is a scepter.

 

19 hours ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

There's a couple skins that already look  odd when used by any profession.

Don't forget Thief already set a precedent of using existing skins in a weird way when Daredevil first came out we only had Gandalf-style staves (only 2 truly melee style staves were Bo & Daredevil Staff). Ascalonian Staff (among others) could be considered a "melee" staff, but staves in concept were originally all spellcaster and Daredevil upset that applecart (with Revenant tagging along).

 

And despite the presence of what may be sharp edge, that silhouette looks about as effective as a physical weapon as a lot of those "Gandalf-style staves" you're talking about.

 

If they wanted thief to use a blunt melee weapon, they could have used mace, if they wanted a sharp hafted melee weapon, they could have used axe. They used scepter. And it looks like a pretty standard "orb within claw" style scepter that would fit in with a lot of existing skins.

 

Here's the thing - however much a lot of you apparently don't like it, it WAS possible to make a ranged spellcaster assassin build in GW1 (without using a secondary profession). Given that this is Cantha, and that this is the one thing you could do with the GW1 assassin that you really can't do with GW2 thief, I'm pretty sure this is exactly the angle they're going for. They've already used staff as a quarterstaff, as you observed yourself, and if they ever want to have a thief with a caster weapon that's capable of autoattack, scepter is the one shot they have at that before they have to turn some other weapon into a caster weapon... and it would look pretty silly using scepter as a melee weapon if mace or axe ends up being used as a spellcasting weapon later. I'm not talking silly as in a couple of cherrypicked skills that are basically "we have this skin as an environmental weapon, might as well make an exotic out of it". I'm talking about pretty much every currently existing skill looking out of place, while tons of axe and mace skills that would be perfectly functional are going to waste.

 

Furthermore, the reasoning I was responding to was claiming that the weapon would have a very specific functionality that required that specific form in order to happen... which would require it to be a bladesworn-like class-mechanic-that-replaces-a-weapon rather than a regular weapon, since existing scepters obviously can't all be expected to have a blade which channels the enemy's blood into an orb. But, as I said above: it looks like a scepter, the datamine indicates that they were planning a scepter, Occam's razor says it's a regular scepter, which means that whatever it does, it has to be compatible with other scepter skins. Daredevil (and revenant) staff skills are just about physically striking the target, so while those "Gandalf staves" aren't exactly optimised for the job, they're still (mostly) solid sticks with some extra mass at the striking end and will do the job. While most scepter skins would not fit AikijinX's conjecture.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

31 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

They've already used staff as a quarterstaff, as you observed yourself, and if they ever want to have a thief with a caster weapon that's capable of autoattack, scepter is the one shot they have at that before they have to turn some other weapon into a caster weapon... and it would look pretty silly using scepter as a melee weapon if mace or axe ends up being used as a spellcasting weapon later.

Necromancer (Core-Axe), Mesmer (Core-Greatsword) already have the precedent of using a melee weapon as a spellcasting weapon. Mesmer (Mirage) I would argue is more "spellcaster-y" in its slashing, and the auto-attack #3 of Guardian (Firebrand) is essentially a spell making a giant blue slash.

There's plenty of opportunity for them to make it into a melee weapon (if they wanted a blunt 2-handed melee for Daredevil they could have used a Hammer) and plenty of opportunity to make it into a spellcasting weapon.

Just gave the skins as an example that skins don't matter, it all depends on the profession using it if it looks weird or not.

 

[Gibson.4036]

Skins don't really matter, but neither does "they made lazors shoot out a greatsword!".  A greatsword isn't just a staff you use at melee, and a staff isn't just a greatsword you use to cast spells. If I shoot lazors out my greatsword, no one's going to look at me and say, "Look at that staff wielder!"

The thing is that a scepter is really just a symbolic/magical mace. You brandish one or wave it at people, the other you use to thunk people. They're really the same object, with the difference between them almost entirely being defined by their use. That's why it would make no sense to give Thief a scepter and have them run around bonking people with it. I bonk you with my scepter, you're going to say, "Hey, stop hitting me with that mace!"

Maces were often wielded by leaders in early medieval times because they had the symbolic appearance of a ruling scepter. If you see a mace in contemporary times, it's being held in some sort of ceremony and is really just a scepter. They're variations on the same object, defined by how you use them.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 10/7/2021 at 12:49 AM, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

Necromancer (Core-Axe), Mesmer (Core-Greatsword) already have the precedent of using a melee weapon as a spellcasting weapon. Mesmer (Mirage) I would argue is more "spellcaster-y" in its slashing, and the auto-attack #3 of Guardian (Firebrand) is essentially a spell making a giant blue slash.

There's plenty of opportunity for them to make it into a melee weapon (if they wanted a blunt 2-handed melee for Daredevil they could have used a Hammer) and plenty of opportunity to make it into a spellcasting weapon.

Just gave the skins as an example that skins don't matter, it all depends on the profession using it if it looks weird or not.

 

Know what both of those have in common? They already have scepter (and staff) as caster weapons. So they needed to convert other weapons into spellcasting weapons to get more than those two.

 

Same observation applies to elementalist or virtuoso dagger, incidentally.

 

For thief, there's really no good reason for scepter to be a melee weapon now when mace and axe are still available. Particularly since, as Gibson points out, the difference between a mace and a scepter is basically that maces are optimised for hitting things with, while scepters aren't.

[Dawanarth.4601]

And for the Hammer/Staff situation, it's not quite as easy since a hammer is quite different than a quarterstaff

[Legion.4198]

As others have already speculated, Shadow Form or Shadow Shroud are strong candidates for being the inspiration for main mechanic of the Elite Spec, with the former being a popular choice for the Caster Assassin playstyle back in Gw1. Meanwhile, Siphon Speed (steal speed), Siphon Strength (steal damage), and Shadow Theft (steal attributes) were vampire-like skills that could replace steal. 

If it gets some kind of team quickness or alacrity, it would be neat to name the skill Deadly Paradox, one of the skills usually used by Caster Assassins back in Gw1.

Other skills used by Caster Assassins that could make a come back, in one form or another, either as weapon or utility skill include: 

• Iron Palm: Target touched foe suffers damage, if that foe is suffering from a hex or condition that foe is knocked down.
• Entangling Asp: (knocks down and poison target )
• Signet of Toxic Shock:  If target foe is suffering from Poison, that foe takes extra damage.
• Dancing Daggers:  Send out three Dancing Daggers at target foe doing damage. It is already in-game as the Dancing Dagger, in singular, but maybe it could be changed to shuriken or kunai instead.
• Augury of Death:  Inflict Deep Wound condition and Shadow Step to target foe the next time damage would drop this foe's Health below 50%.
• Shroud of Distress: Healing skill. If you are below 50% Health, you gain regeneration and a 75% chance to block attacks.

Less orthodox, and more in line with exploring demonic and shadow themes would be to take what used to be monster skills, like Demonic Agility, and give it a Gw2 spin either as a trait or a skill. 

Besides that, I would expect an emphasis on offensive/defensive shadow step skills, plenty to take inspiration from, and perhaps some kind of shadow clone/s.  

Edited October 8, 2021 by Legion.4198