Virtuoso or Core Utilities?

[Matt H.6142]

To the forum: will you be loading in all Virtuoso. skills, a mix, or none, and if none, what will you use?

 

I find myself a bit thrown by Virtuoso's utilities.  With other elite specs before, I found it very easy to see myself filling the utility slots with the e-spec exclusive skills, and there was always one for every situation.  Virtuoso is just damage, simple as that.  Not even a stunbreak.  And there is something so beautiful in that. 

 

Core mesmer has some brilliant stunbreaks in Blink, Decoy, and Mirror Images.  Mantra of Concentration even.  It is also lacking in AOE damage.

Still, I think adding stunbreak to Psychic Force or Blade Renewal would just help make the whole kit viable.  I'm not expecting a stunbreak trait considering how much work went into removing the ones that existed before.

 

I think Blink, Decoy (stealth plus blade) and then either Mimic or Mirror Images would make Virtuoso quite fun to play.  (Does anyone else see this as the core mesmer they always wanted?)

Or a mix?

The best V. synergy is Rain of Swords, Sword of Decimation, and then Thousand Cuts, with a spot free for the stunbreak.

 

 

[Tseison.4659]

So in terms of what I’d be running, I’ve placed the skills in order of game mode and what I’d be getting myself into:

 

PvE (Fractals, Raids + Open World)

Healing: Ether Feast

Utilities: Rain of Swords, Sword of Decimation/Blade Renewal and Mimic

Elite: Thousand Cuts

 

My reasons for these is pretty self explanatory, just going for more damage and the Blade of Renewal would just be my emergency button for immunity or blades for CC - Daze. Ether Feast is because if it ends up working as I assume come the beta testing, it should heal for more since we’ll have a lot of “clones” aka blades present.

 

WvW

I don’t roam and usually fight in a team or lend my support in a Zerg. However, with that said, if I’m in the back line I would take the same skills as I would mentioned in PvE, but in a WvW situation where mobility and break-stuns are essential, atleast for me, the skills I’d bring and interchange are:

 

Healing: Ether Feast

Utilities: Blink, Blade Renewal, Mimic, Rain of Swords, possibly Psychic force but if it doesn’t break stun then I’m not taking it, Feedback, Mirror Images and Sword of Decimation.

Elite: Mass Invisibility or Thousand Cuts

 

Overall, that’s pretty much what I’d take but that’s subject to change until I test everything out. I’m worried our new “shatters” root us in place and also the cast time and I’m hoping it doesn’t feel clunky when in the heat of combat. If so, I think to make it fluid, a reduction of the cast time will have to be made in my opinion. 

[Noodle Ant.1605]

psychic force is a stunbreak

 

edit: below the already hard-to-see stunbreak icon is an even-harder-to-see icon of what seems to be the universal evade icon. whether or not it evades or for how long, idk

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Noodle Ant.1605

[Matt H.6142]

Well, that's a welcome part of the kit then!  Evades, blocks and distortion.  I've already seen mirage's high damage mitigation.  Will be interesting to see it on V.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

As someone who mainly roams, blink is just too good to pass. I like the Virt immobilise one and the distort one, so I will try them but probably only the distort will sit on my bar. 

[Salt Mode.3780]

as a person who roams probably only the heal, signet of midnight + blink is way too good to pass up, the elite realistically speaking will never be used so mass invis is the way to go

[Xaylin.1860]

I rarely pass on Blink even just running around in OW. It is just too convenient. But Mirror Images seems to be a valid choice. I'm not a big fan of Decoy but I might try it out for Blade generation with Escape Artist if I somehow end up running Torch (or another additional stealth skill).

[Curunen.8729]

Difficult to say until seeing the traits.

 

Like others, Blink almost never leaves my bar - probably one of the best skills on the entire class. Only time it isn't there is underwater!

 

Heal is unclear - not sure what the sustain of virtuoso will be in terms of traits, whether there is any additional source of healing via traits, cooldown reduction, etc. I want to try the new heal but in general not that fond of sustain abilities that require hitting an enemy to get the most benefit from, but the heal amount looks good so toss up between that or a core heal - maybe ether feast.

 

I really want to try Psychic Force - love this kind of telekinetic ability, quite similar to a skill design I was hoping for. Not sure how useful it will be in different game modes but I will hope to make it work. The 45s cooldown looks horrible though, so hope there is something to help out with that. Would be nice if it was aoe knockdown rather than knockback.

 

Third utility completely open - in wvw as typically smallscale or solo probably some kind of survival skill, maybe a core stealth, maybe blade renewal for the distortion (but the root doesn't look great). If having allied support or large group, maybe Sword of Decimation for the cc. pve maybe Rain of Swords.

 

Elite almost certainly mass invis if with 0-2 allies and thousand cuts if anything more or in pve.

 

But then again in terms of build/equipment templates, I'd probably swap to mirage if running eg solo in wvw simply for the superior mobility and gtfo potential and swap to virtuoso in appropriate situations. In general look forward to having more situational use of templates to make use of the superior damage/ranged potential of virtuoso or the superior surivivability/mobility of mirage. Then I can gear virtuoso eg D/P + maybe Sw/T and focus it on one task, and if in trouble stealth/blink/warclaw out of combat and swap to mirage.

[Tseison.4659]

9 minutes ago, Curunen.8729 said:

Difficult to say until seeing the traits.

 

Like others, Blink almost never leaves my bar - probably one of the best skills on the entire class. Only time it isn't there is underwater!

 

Heal is unclear - not sure what the sustain of virtuoso will be in terms of traits, whether there is any additional source of healing via traits, cooldown reduction, etc. I want to try the new heal but in general not that fond of sustain abilities that require hitting an enemy to get the most benefit from, but the heal amount looks good so toss up between that or a core heal - maybe ether feast.

 

I really want to try Psychic Force - love this kind of telekinetic ability, quite similar to a skill design I was hoping for. Not sure how useful it will be in different game modes but I will hope to make it work. The 45s cooldown looks horrible though, so hope there is something to help out with that. Would be nice if it was aoe knockdown rather than knockback.

 

Third utility completely open - in wvw as typically smallscale or solo probably some kind of survival skill, maybe a core stealth, maybe blade renewal for the distortion (but the root doesn't look great). If having allied support or large group, maybe Sword of Decimation for the cc. pve maybe Rain of Swords.

 

Elite almost certainly mass invis if with 0-2 allies and thousand cuts if anything more or in pve.

 

But then again in terms of build/equipment templates, I'd probably swap to mirage if running eg solo in wvw simply for the superior mobility and gtfo potential and swap to virtuoso in appropriate situations. In general look forward to having more situational use of templates to make use of the superior damage/ranged potential of virtuoso or the superior surivivability/mobility of mirage. Then I can gear virtuoso eg D/P + maybe Sw/T and focus it on one task, and if in trouble stealth/blink/warclaw out of combat and swap to mirage.

 

I still don't think Psychic Force is a stunbreak even though someone mentioned it, it wasn't confirmed in the video or anywhere else online that I've seen. However, if it ends up being one I think that could be somewhat useful since the knockback is pretty far and I guess it would be a good use in WvW if one wanted to get some distance or to escape, but I'm still unsure if I'd use it in that mode since there's better utility skills that I run a lot.

 

Blade Renewal being a channel, you can still move with it just like what Guardians can do with their Renewed Focus so I definitely think that's a plus AND has a shorter cooldown than Renewed Focus as well. But I have a bad feeling people will complain and then it's cooldown will be bumped to 90s...which if that ends up happening, it might as well switch places with Thousand Cuts and become an Elite instead.

[Curunen.8729]

1 minute ago, Tseison.4659 said:

 

I still don't think Psychic Force is a stunbreak even though someone mentioned it, it wasn't confirmed in the video or anywhere else online that I've seen. However, if it ends up being one I think that could be somewhat useful since the knockback is pretty far and I guess it would be a good use in WvW if one wanted to get some distance or to escape, but I'm still unsure if I'd use it in that mode since there's better utility skills that I run a lot.

 

Blade Renewal being a channel, you can still move with it just like what Guardians can do with their Renewed Focus so I definitely think that's a plus AND has a shorter cooldown than Renewed Focus as well. But I have a bad feeling people will complain and then it's cooldown will be bumped to 90s...which if that ends up happening, it might as well switch places with Thousand Cuts and become an Elite instead.

Yeah I'll have to wait and see how it turns out. Love the concept of Psychic Force, just hope it is useful enough to justify.

 

Oh kitten I seem to have missed that with Blade Renewal allowing movement. In that case will probably slot it, though as you said will depend how badly it gets hit with potential nerfs - I can already see the incessant complaints "omg mesmer now have more distortion on top of F4!!1!1!", of course disregarding that F4 is now a block. xD

[Tseison.4659]

4 minutes ago, Curunen.8729 said:

Yeah I'll have to wait and see how it turns out. Love the concept of Psychic Force, just hope it is useful enough to justify.

 

Oh kitten I seem to have missed that with Blade Renewal allowing movement. In that case will probably slot it, though as you said will depend how badly it gets hit with potential nerfs - I can already see the incessant complaints "omg mesmer now have more distortion on top of F4!!1!1!", of course disregarding that F4 is now a block. xD

 

Right haha and don't forget the lovely "Mimic" 😂 but I rarely carry that in WvW and when I do, it's usually for the double Blink. It's times like this when I wish we could slot 4 utilities instead of 3... 😑 Blink is too much of a staple that it almost feels unfair to NEED to bring it and then the last two slots ends up being a much harder decision. 

[Curunen.8729]

Just now, Tseison.4659 said:

 

Right haha and don't forget the lovely "Mimic" 😂 but I rarely carry that in WvW and when I do, it's usually for the double Blink. It's times like this when I wish we could slot 4 utilities instead of 3... 😑 Blink is too much of a staple that it almost feels unfair to NEED to bring it and then the last two slots ends up being a much harder decision. 

Omg I didn't even think Mimic onto Blade Renewal. 😮 Yeah there will definitely be whining about virtuoso chaining distortion into block into distortion "perma invuln" etc, conveniently ignoring cooldowns, lack of visual clutter and so on.

 

lol, compounded by what looks like almost zero mobility on virtuoso that blink is even more necessary as I doubt virtuoso will be able to tank hits like a warrior. (please Anet don't read this and nerf blink further... it's perfectly fine now!)

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

14 minutes ago, Curunen.8729 said:

Omg I didn't even think Mimic onto Blade Renewal. 😮 Yeah there will definitely be whining about virtuoso chaining distortion into block into distortion "perma invuln" etc, conveniently ignoring cooldowns, lack of visual clutter and so on.

 

lol, compounded by what looks like almost zero mobility on virtuoso that blink is even more necessary as I doubt virtuoso will be able to tank hits like a warrior. (please Anet don't read this and nerf blink further... it's perfectly fine now!)

I don't think there will be whining. 

Blade renewal is a channeling so while in distortion you can't do anything, plus it prevents point capture. 

F4 is a channeling block so you can't do anything either plus unbloackables still work. 

People will just stow weapons waiting for it to end to burst you. 

 

You can tell what you want the new F4 is trash imo. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Curunen.8729]

Just now, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I don't think there will be whining. 

Blade renewal is a channeling so while in distortion you can't do anything, plus it prevents point capture. 

F4 is a channeling block so you can't do anything either plus unbloackables still work. 

People will just stow weapons waiting for it to burst you. 

 

You can tell what you want the new F4 is trash imo. 

Fair point, I don't pvp anymore so didn't think about the capture point contribution.

 

I think in principle people will complain unless it ends up being totally useless that nobody takes it (though I reckon we have to see the traits first as who knows, there may be additional enhancements to consider), because it's another invuln on mesmer.

 

Yeah I know F4 is just a block, my comment was just tongue in cheek given in a slightly different vein how mirage cloak evades have been effectively seen by some as "invulns", and while block of course has more counterplay in terms of unblockables, it's still an incoming damage neutering ability on mesmer.

[Tseison.4659]

7 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I don't think there will be whining. 

Blade renewal is a channeling so while in distortion you can't do anything, plus it prevents point capture. 

F4 is a channeling block so you can't do anything either plus unbloackables still work. 

People will just stow weapons waiting for it to end to burst you. 

 

You can tell what you want the new F4 is trash imo. 

I mean, Guardians with Renewed Focus when active, people still unload everything *shrugs* and this is mostly in talks for a WvW situation and not so much PvP. Regardless if it's a channel, the Distortion is still immunity to everything and gives us time to get some distance, think of our next plan of action and give us time for other skills to go off cooldown.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

im sure im not the only one who has done it but i slowed down the video to 0.25x speed and managed to get this. this is the best image i could get, not sure if anyone else has something better

 

https://i.imgur.com/0BTdj8l.jpg

 

because the text is super blurry im not going to try to read it, but the icons are still there and still somewhat visible. ive interpreted what the icons probably mean, but the missing fine print could possibly say "unfinished skill" or "troll showcase skill" for all i know

Edited August 6, 2021 by Noodle Ant.1605

[Tseison.4659]

2 minutes ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

im sure im not the only one who has done it but i slowed down the video to 0.25x speed and managed to get this. this is the best image i could get, not sure if anyone else has something better

 

https://i.imgur.com/0BTdj8l.jpg

 

because the text is super blurry im not going to try to read it, but the icons are still there and still somewhat visible. ive interpreted what the icons probably mean, but the missing fine print could possibly say "unfinished skill" or "troll showcase skill" for all i know

Interesting! Thanks for sharing that! It’s nice to know for some people that it breakstun too, maybe that’ll help people decide if they’ll take it up in PvP/WvW. However, with that said I still won’t add it to my utility bar (in terms of WvW mostly) due to Blink being too much of a staple, then mirror images and then the final one could be blade renewal for extra defence + F4.

[Sodeni.6041]

The utilities are lackluster. I wish they would give us an offhand dagger and slap on the AOE utility on the 5th skill or combine both AOE utilities since they basically do the same and are not worth using 2 slots.

[Tseison.4659]

42 minutes ago, Sodeni.6041 said:

The utilities are lackluster. I wish they would give us an offhand dagger and slap on the AOE utility on the 5th skill or combine both AOE utilities since they basically do the same and are not worth using 2 slots.

I was saying the exact thing when they did the Virtuoso Trailer in it that, Sword of Decimation and Rain of Swords have no reason to be separate when they’re essentially the same, except one immobilizes. They could have easily had it where at the end of Rain of swords, it immobilizes enemies OR have it immobilize first and then continue the duration of rain of swords since it’s easy to run out of anyways.

 

Combining the two utilities does free up an extra space to incorporate perhaps another mobility/evade or condi cleanse skill. *shrugs*
 

In terms of the off hand dagger, a lot of us wanted one and it would’ve been nice to get a phantasmal dagger illusion, but it is what it is I guess…..

[Curunen.8729]

4 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

im sure im not the only one who has done it but i slowed down the video to 0.25x speed and managed to get this. this is the best image i could get, not sure if anyone else has something better

 

https://i.imgur.com/0BTdj8l.jpg

 

because the text is super blurry im not going to try to read it, but the icons are still there and still somewhat visible. ive interpreted what the icons probably mean, but the missing fine print could possibly say "unfinished skill" or "troll showcase skill" for all i know

Thanks for taking that screenshot!

 

Certainly does look like the evade symbol at the bottom.

 

And almost likely the stunbreak symbol above it.

 

If so, and it is both an evade and stunbreak then kitten fantastic - I'll definitely endeavour to have this on the bar! 😄 Just hope there is some kind of cooldown reduction trait.

 

Edit - I just found the place on the video, that was really quick, good job on the capture!

 

  

3 hours ago, Tseison.4659 said:

I was saying the exact thing when they did the Virtuoso Trailer in it that, Sword of Decimation and Rain of Swords have no reason to be separate when they’re essentially the same, except one immobilizes. They could have easily had it where at the end of Rain of swords, it immobilizes enemies OR have it immobilize first and then continue the duration of rain of swords since it’s easy to run out of anyways.

 

Combining the two utilities does free up an extra space to incorporate perhaps another mobility/evade or condi cleanse skill. *shrugs*
 

In terms of the off hand dagger, a lot of us wanted one and it would’ve been nice to get a phantasmal dagger illusion, but it is what it is I guess…..

It seems another case of Mirage Advance and Illusionary Ambush. They could almost be branching evolutions for a single ability rather than two separate abilities, not sure what the reasoning was for this design given limited utility slots.

Edit2: on reflection I suppose given how the game works it does kind of function that way as separate skills - giving the player a choice but not expecting both to be taken together.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Curunen.8729

[Tseison.4659]

47 minutes ago, Curunen.8729 said:

Thanks for taking that screenshot!

 

Certainly does look like the evade symbol at the bottom.

 

And almost likely the stunbreak symbol above it.

 

If so, and it is both an evade and stunbreak then kitten fantastic - I'll definitely endeavour to have this on the bar! 😄 Just hope there is some kind of cooldown reduction trait.

 

Edit - I just found the place on the video, that was really quick, good job on the capture!

 

  

It seems another case of Mirage Advance and Illusionary Ambush. They could almost be branching evolutions for a single ability rather than two separate abilities, not sure what the reasoning was for this design given limited utility slots.

Edit2: on reflection I suppose given how the game works it does kind of function that way as separate skills - giving the player a choice but not expecting both to be taken together.

Yeah it definitely can be situational but as mentioned, it’s just common sense for them to just condense the two together and create something different as those two skills are literally the same, just one immobilizes and deals damage while the other is consecutive damage. 🤷‍♂️ Oh well. I mean in a WvW “maybe” I’ll bring it for zergs but with all the condi cleanses, boons etc… don’t think it’s really worth bringing atleast for me.

[Loboling.5293]

I'm looking for ways to build wombo-combos with Virtuoso, primarily centered around that Elite skill, and finding ways to keep people in it. I still never got over the removal of stacking fire fields. Using the FGS along with lighting flash (blink), on an immobilized target was a game winning move. I'm hoping with Virtuoso having no clear improvements to survivability, that it'll maintain very high burst damage. Especially since they made it into a aoe line that you can't move once unleashed. It'll make it harder to pull off damage, so to balance it out, it should hit harder than most mesmer skills. Which gets me all excited. 

I'm still hoping they give Mesmers double daggers, instead of just 1. I really doubt that will happen, but it would allow them to add something like a short aoe stun and a block that works like old retal, damaging attackers. (2 seconds) 

Regardless, Virtuoso is about setting up big burst combos in my opinion, but it'll be more vulnerable than even base mesmer.