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Strike Mission Problems

There are very clearly two different player bases for this game, those who want a challenge, and those who do not. I feel for Anet having to try and decide which of these two groups gets the attention in a given content release.

Some people will probably disagree with me, but I don't think you should be allowed to participate in the strike missions that require lots of cc until after you've unlocked the Icebrood mastery for them. People complain about LFM having requirements like raid KP, but then don't even put the effort into having the mastery done to be able to help the group succeed, which is even easier than getting proper gear. At least if everyone had the mastery, you can increase the chance of not failing the cc bars that lead to wipes on BS and WoJ. Strikes have other problems too, but this one is something that should have been implemented from the beginning. You need the mastery to get the rewards, so why not make it a proper gate for entry instead of this half in half out thing?

Comments

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2020

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:
    There are very clearly two different player bases for this game, those who want a challenge, and those who do not. I feel for Anet having to try and decide which of these two groups gets the attention in a given content release.

    They already did and the answer is neither. Strikes are based on the misconception that the game is doing a bad job of preparing players for raids while also assuming that people not having an interest to "challenge themselves" isn't a (major) thing at all.

    Ultimatly striles don't really have a (real) target audiace, they're "too hard" for the casuals and too easy for the "hardcores".

    As for deciding for one of these groups I feel like at this point going for the side of the playerbase that seeks more challenging content is the only thing that still makes sense. Strikes already accumulated too much of a stigma to be serviceable for the casual part of the playerbase.

    If they ever want to introduce dungeon / raid like content for the casual player base they need a fresh start with the stated goal of providing casual friendly instanced group content.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:
    You need the mastery to get the rewards, so why not make it a proper gate for entry instead of this half in half out thing?

    I guess it's because that would prevent players with knowledge of how CC works in this game from participating in the content without first unlocking the mastery. Plus training a mastery takes time and is very boring, preventing players from enjoying some content by forcing them to do something boring/tedious isn't a good idea.

    You are also assuming that a player with the mastery knows what it actually does on the boss. CC is a much bigger problem in the game as there is hardly any information on break bars inside the game, and barely any training about it.

  • Vilin.8056Vilin.8056 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:
    There are very clearly two different player bases for this game, those who want a challenge, and those who do not. I feel for Anet having to try and decide which of these two groups gets the attention in a given content release.

    They already did and the answer is neither. Strikes are based on the misconception that the game is doing a bad job of preparing players for raids while also assuming that people not having an interest to "challenge themselves" isn't a (major) thing at all.

    Ultimatly striles don't really have a (real) target audiace, they're "too hard" for the casuals and too easy for the "hardcores".

    As for deciding for one of these groups I feel like at this point going for the side of the playerbase that seeks more challenging content is the only thing that still makes sense. Strikes already accumulated too much of a stigma to be serviceable for the casual part of the playerbase.

    If they ever want to introduce dungeon / raid like content for the casual player base they need a fresh start with the stated goal of providing casual friendly instanced group content.

    I think as long as a constant dose new/casual players get to witness how support roles such as heal brands, heal scourges or alacgades function in a squad instance, the content has served its purpose.

    Casual players never had the opportunity to experience with these without joining a raid game. Likewise, if Anet nerf the difficulty any further, there will be no place for these roles.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tails.9372 said:
    As for deciding for one of these groups I feel like at this point going for the side of the playerbase that seeks more challenging content is the only thing that still makes sense. Strikes already accumulated too much of a stigma to be serviceable for the casual part of the playerbase.

    If they ever want to introduce dungeon / raid like content for the casual player base they need a fresh start with the stated goal of providing casual friendly instanced group content.

    Strikes are casual friendly and people could learn if they started with the easy ones and progress to Woj and BS which can't really be classified as hard. They are also super fast.
    Community really overestimates the strikes' difficulty. If I can compare to WoW these are of the entry 5 man dungeon difficulty or even lower, most of those dungeons had much more complex mechanics. And that was really casual for most in Wow.
    I don't know what this community has with instanced content and all the crazy requirements (LI for strikes, LOL) and impatience. Public instances also don't seem to work because everyone leaves after 1 min. I guess the community in this game really is the most casual out there.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:
    There are very clearly two different player bases for this game, those who want a challenge, and those who do not. I feel for Anet having to try and decide which of these two groups gets the attention in a given content release.

    They already did and the answer is neither. Strikes are based on the misconception that the game is doing a bad job of preparing players for raids while also assuming that people not having an interest to "challenge themselves" isn't a (major) thing at all.

    Ultimatly striles don't really have a (real) target audiace, they're "too hard" for the casuals and too easy for the "hardcores".

    As for deciding for one of these groups I feel like at this point going for the side of the playerbase that seeks more challenging content is the only thing that still makes sense. Strikes already accumulated too much of a stigma to be serviceable for the casual part of the playerbase.

    If they ever want to introduce dungeon / raid like content for the casual player base they need a fresh start with the stated goal of providing casual friendly instanced group content.

    What I don't get is why have Strike Missions at all if their goal is to magically lead to raids yet they fired the raid team?

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2020

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:
    There are very clearly two different player bases for this game, those who want a challenge, and those who do not. I feel for Anet having to try and decide which of these two groups gets the attention in a given content release.

    They already did and the answer is neither. Strikes are based on the misconception that the game is doing a bad job of preparing players for raids while also assuming that people not having an interest to "challenge themselves" isn't a (major) thing at all.

    Ultimatly striles don't really have a (real) target audiace, they're "too hard" for the casuals and too easy for the "hardcores".

    As for deciding for one of these groups I feel like at this point going for the side of the playerbase that seeks more challenging content is the only thing that still makes sense. Strikes already accumulated too much of a stigma to be serviceable for the casual part of the playerbase.

    If they ever want to introduce dungeon / raid like content for the casual player base they need a fresh start with the stated goal of providing casual friendly instanced group content.

    We already have that its called personal story, expansion story and living world stories group content for 1-5 players

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:
    There are very clearly two different player bases for this game, those who want a challenge, and those who do not. I feel for Anet having to try and decide which of these two groups gets the attention in a given content release.

    They already did and the answer is neither. Strikes are based on the misconception that the game is doing a bad job of preparing players for raids while also assuming that people not having an interest to "challenge themselves" isn't a (major) thing at all.

    Ultimatly striles don't really have a (real) target audiace, they're "too hard" for the casuals and too easy for the "hardcores".

    As for deciding for one of these groups I feel like at this point going for the side of the playerbase that seeks more challenging content is the only thing that still makes sense. Strikes already accumulated too much of a stigma to be serviceable for the casual part of the playerbase.

    If they ever want to introduce dungeon / raid like content for the casual player base they need a fresh start with the stated goal of providing casual friendly instanced group content.

    What I don't get is why have Strike Missions at all if their goal is to magically lead to raids yet they fired the raid team?

    Were is the info that they fired the raid team, Im quite positive that its the same people doing strike bosses and fractals now that before made the raids.

  • Vilin.8056Vilin.8056 Member ✭✭✭

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:
    There are very clearly two different player bases for this game, those who want a challenge, and those who do not. I feel for Anet having to try and decide which of these two groups gets the attention in a given content release.

    They already did and the answer is neither. Strikes are based on the misconception that the game is doing a bad job of preparing players for raids while also assuming that people not having an interest to "challenge themselves" isn't a (major) thing at all.

    Ultimatly striles don't really have a (real) target audiace, they're "too hard" for the casuals and too easy for the "hardcores".

    As for deciding for one of these groups I feel like at this point going for the side of the playerbase that seeks more challenging content is the only thing that still makes sense. Strikes already accumulated too much of a stigma to be serviceable for the casual part of the playerbase.

    If they ever want to introduce dungeon / raid like content for the casual player base they need a fresh start with the stated goal of providing casual friendly instanced group content.

    What I don't get is why have Strike Missions at all if their goal is to magically lead to raids yet they fired the raid team?

    I don't think the strike advertised raid in anyway.
    It's just something that, to an extent, helps closing in on the skill gap.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2020

    You can't change the playerbase, you can only change how you make groups, what groups you join, and what you play yourself.
    I do strikes basically daily and have even done Cold War about 80 times so far.

    Some observations:

    • pinging the special action before using it results in more people using it on the CC bar
    • groups with clear roles in the LFG , especially if you make them yourself are likely to go smoother
    • playing a scourge with blood magic makes Whisper of Jormag and Boneskinner much easier and also Cold War when Frigid footfalls is active (the melee range DOT chill field with 10% max health armor ignoring damage)
    • when there is typically nonlethal infrequent damage (i.e. Shiverpeak/fraenir) , you're better off with cQBs for more squad DPS if you have a druid (heal over time , protection) + alacrity renegade (protection)
    • people still fail the Voice + Claw CC bar when they merge in random groups and there's really lame excuses such as "can't see the CC bar" when it's super obvious since they're merged
    • the healing of PUG tempests is generally higher than that of druids
    • "everyone welcome" usually results in people running random stuff
    • weekend players are usually much more casual to the point asking them what they are running results in them pinging an offmeta weapon and asking them what build they use results in confusion and angst (which means if you are not the squad leader you should probably leave if they aren't kicked)
    • people think meme builds such as longbow camping rangers or double pistol thieves count as DPS

    Statistics per boss (all are 2597 armor , which is the same as test golem):

    • Icebrood Construct: ~11.7 million health (2 Bonus chests = 4 min , ~ 4.9K DPS average across 10 people which is extremely lenient)
    • Voice+ Claw : ~8.3 million health each (Gold = 3 min , ~4.6K DPS average if cleaved/epi bounced or double that ~10K DPS average if they are permanently apart)
    • Fraenir : ~12.4 million health (Gold = 3 min , ~6.9K DPS average ; silver = 5 min , ~4K DPS average but you need to factor in the icebrood construct phase)
      ** Icebrood Construct (Fraenir) : ~8.3 million health (adding this in you have ~11.5K DPS average for gold tier in 3 min)

    • Boneskinner: ~ 21 million health (Gold = 3 min, ~11.6K DPS average ; Silver = 5 min , ~7K DPS average)

    • Whisper of Jormag : ~24.8 million health (Gold = 3 min , ~13.7K DPS average ; Silver = 5 min , ~8K DPS average)
    • Varinia (Cold War) : ~18 million health (chests are based off the mobs killed in first half, Varinia has a 7 min timer so you can have ~ 4.2K DPS average and still get full chests)

    I think the special action reliance makes people more lazy in learning their builds actually, it's a crutch for not knowing what skills on the build used do. Instead of requiring masteries they ought to scale the CC bar down and lower the amount of CC coming from the special action, otherwise it would be contrary to the goal of making strikes accessible.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Were is the info that they fired the raid team, Im quite positive that its the same people doing strike bosses and fractals now that before made the raids.

    Not sure about the entire team but the Raid lead Crystal Reid no longer works for Arenanet. Benjamin Arnold who also worked on many Raids (and fractals) left too and was only re-hired in February 2020. I'm sure a lot of the other Raid developers also left (and maybe some more are coming back)

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2020

    @Cuks.8241 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:
    As for deciding for one of these groups I feel like at this point going for the side of the playerbase that seeks more challenging content is the only thing that still makes sense. Strikes already accumulated too much of a stigma to be serviceable for the casual part of the playerbase.

    If they ever want to introduce dungeon / raid like content for the casual player base they need a fresh start with the stated goal of providing casual friendly instanced group content.

    Strikes are casual friendly

    Doesn't matter, like I said they: "already accumulated too much of a stigma to be serviceable for the casual part of the playerbase".

    The fact that Shiverpeaks Pass is essentially just "me and the boys beating up a DPS golem" is irrelevant, it's a strike mission which are perceived as a "stepping stone to raids" so most casuals just stay away from it.

    @Cuks.8241 said:
    and people could learn

    Here is the thing: the overwhelming majority of casuals doesn't care about "learning", at all. And you can't make them either. If they feel like something is a bother they just leave. A-Net is never going to reach mass appeal with their non main story instanced content releases if they continue to fail to understand this.

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:
    There are very clearly two different player bases for this game, those who want a challenge, and those who do not. I feel for Anet having to try and decide which of these two groups gets the attention in a given content release.

    They already did and the answer is neither. Strikes are based on the misconception that the game is doing a bad job of preparing players for raids while also assuming that people not having an interest to "challenge themselves" isn't a (major) thing at all.

    Ultimatly striles don't really have a (real) target audiace, they're "too hard" for the casuals and too easy for the "hardcores".

    As for deciding for one of these groups I feel like at this point going for the side of the playerbase that seeks more challenging content is the only thing that still makes sense. Strikes already accumulated too much of a stigma to be serviceable for the casual part of the playerbase.

    If they ever want to introduce dungeon / raid like content for the casual player base they need a fresh start with the stated goal of providing casual friendly instanced group content.

    We already have that its called personal story, expansion story and living world stories group content for 1-5 players

    Which is not the same thing as your typical dungeon / raid style content as there is basically no replay value (nor is there a decent hub like we have for e.g. fractals). But it shows that people are not opposed to instanced content. Story dungeons don't have the stigma of being "hardcore content" and it's the second most popular content in the game iirc. despite it not being nearly as rewarding as most of the other content.