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Where is the rest of Dragon's Watch?

Musha.4025Musha.4025 Member ✭✭

I get that the real world answer to "where are all of our teammates" is availability of the voice actors, but why don't we get lore explanations about where the important characters are when they don't appear on-screen?

I mean Rox is Charr and there was a Charr civil war! Her involvement in that would have been captivating! At least tell us where she is!
Where has Canach been during the entire Icebrood Saga?
Marjory was with us in episode 1, where did she go?
Taimi? Gorrik? I don't think we hear from either of those 2 throughout the entire Saga.

The Commander has definitely been portrayed as a caring individual, especially towards members of Dragon's Watch. So not keeping up with our friends, keeping up communication with them, or at the very least, simply knowing where they are, makes zero sense for the character, and really disrupts the flow of the story for me.

Comments

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2021

    Gorrik has been in Icebrood Saga, just more in the background. Marjory was deeply affected by the spectre of her sister in episode 1 and took a break, but she's returned as of the Gendarran Fields DRM.

    Rox has been written out, more or less. She's left Charr society/the High Legions to live with the Olmakhan, as she clearly prefers the way of life they carved out for themselves. They don't really need to update us on her anymore because they've resolved her story. As far as I'm concerned she's no longer in Dragon's Watch, or is at most part of the "reserves" that will only be called upon when really needed.

    Taimi has been absent until Champions. She's featured heavily in the first story instance and DRM. Edit: Aside from players often complaining about her, her disease is also getting worse as of S4 (though we haven't heard an update on that since she's reappeared in the DRMs). I don't remember the dialogue exactly, but she's been up to stuff in Rata Sum since then, and the Charr conflict doesn't directly affect her or the Asura so it doesn't make as much sense for her to be there until the dragons get really involved.

    Canach we've yet to hear from, but like you say it's not strange for characters to disappear and resurface randomly. There's just no room for him in the current story. Rytlock, Crecia, Braham, Smodur, Malice, Bangar, Ryland are the main characters of the Saga. I guess you can throw Jormag and Jhavi in there. Everyone else is just tagging along narratively.

    I agree though, it would be nice for the devs to include small mentions/references to DW characters when they're absent (they did this with Kasmeer and Marjory during the Thunderhead Peaks episode, and it was nice to have an explanation for their absence). Canach never joined DW though because he wants to do his own thing for a while after being Anise's "slave." Edit: He adventures with us as an ally as he sees fit, but doesn't have any obligation to DW itself at this point.

    It does seem odd from the player perspective that the Commander wouldn't have knowledge of their allies, or at least inquire. But that's been a constant issue since the personal story ended. Zojja has been recovering from her injuries in HoTs for years, and the Commander has never once inquired about her health or whereabouts since then. And iirc, I don't think any (or at least very few) NPCs have brought her up either beyond some background dialogue in S3.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Zojja gets a very brief mention in Champions, which implies that she's still... not well, to say the least.

    Canach has probably finally collected his winnings and has been living the high life in Elona for a while.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Zojja gets a very brief mention in Champions, which implies that she's still... not well, to say the least.

    I can’t remember any mention of her. Any quotes you can provide?

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Zojja gets a very brief mention in Champions, which implies that she's still... not well, to say the least.

    Canach has probably finally collected his winnings and has been living the high life in Elona for a while.

    In "A Star to Guide Us" Snaff has also heard "all about Taimi", and implies it was from Zojja. Many fans took this to be a subtle nod that she didn't survive, its actually not until recently that we receive any indication she's even still alive.

    Presumably she's in a comatose state and "connected with the spirit world" so to speak.

    I imagine she'll return to save Taimi somehow.

    @ OP:
    I can't remember a single time it wasn't stated directly where everyone is.

    Rox left for the Olmakahn, this is covered in Thunderhead Peaks "Oil Floes" meta, Dragonfall and War Eternal dialogue. Her story was mostly over; she finally found her Warband in the Pact Commander and their allies, and then decided she didn't need a Warband at all and wanted to live freely, and its heavily implied that she intends to start a family in Sandswept Isles although this isn't directly stated.

    Most of her interest in the Olmakahn was in their way of life, how they live together and how they raise their cubs.

    Majory took a break after seeing her sister "come back to live" in ep. 1, but returns in Gendarren Fields later. Her story is mostly over; she avenged her sister's death from Modremoth, and transitioned from being a detective bookworm to being a greatsword-wielding front-line warrior. Its implied that she's left(?) the Priory and joined the Vigil: "This isn't what I signed up for Jhavi, and neither did you".

    Kasmeer has been training the Charr in Mesmer abilities for the war, and she shows up a few times in person. Her story is also mostly resolved, her new outfit in Path of Fire shows she's likely regained her nobility after the events in LS2, HoT and LS3. Her main purpose now is to do what Queen Jennah needs her to, which is currently supporting the Seraph efforts.

    Most of her legwork seems focused on maintaining the treaty with the Charr. I believe this is even stated at one point.

    Taimi is sick with a disease similar to muscular dystrophy and is focusing on finishing her (presumably) final works, such as her thesis, because she wants to leave a legacy behind, and this likely doesn't leave much time for field work. She also probably has PTSD from her near-death experience and being used to attack the Commander and her friends after all her work on Scruffy 2.0. I don't think we see her fight after this, even before the announcement is made that her illness had come out of remission.

    She finally fights Destroyers a bit in Champions, and seems.. distraut. Not just over Primordus, but everything.

    Gorrik has been directly featured in several episodes, and there's not alot Asura technology or know-how could do to help in a Charr civil war, and beyond Jormag its not really much of their business anyway.

    Canach isn't officially a member of Dragon's Watch. Its actually not known if he survived the battle with Kralkatorrik, as alot of people died in those battles, and as far as I know he's not been seen or heard from since. If you look at the character roster you'd probably be surprised just how many people we knew who are implied to've been killed.

    Its confirmed at least that Lady Camilla, Mia Kindleshot and most of the Olmakahn survived.

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  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svennis.3852 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Zojja gets a very brief mention in Champions, which implies that she's still... not well, to say the least.

    I can’t remember any mention of her. Any quotes you can provide?

    ...huh. I went to the wiki, and the line appears to be missing there. Probably because it's easy to miss since it triggers pretty much as soon as you load into Rata Sum.

    I'll have to go through my screenshots and see if I can get the exact quote, but Rytlock comments when you first arrive at Rata Sum near the start of 'Truce' (before the conversation with Gorrik) that he hasn't been in Rata Sum for a while, and the context is 'Zojja'. The voice acting implies that it's a case of being a reminder of something he doesn't want to be reminded of, suggesting that Zojja is dead, still comatose, or otherwise in a bad way.

    (Which is curious, because back in HoT, Zojja showed more signs of having resisted Mordremoth than Logan did... but perhaps that's the problem. She fought harder and it took more out of her as a result.)

  • Tanith.5264Tanith.5264 Member ✭✭✭

    I forget which of the DRM's it occurs in, but if you ask Marjory about Kas during one of them she seems to get rattled and changes the subject. Something along the lines of "Let's not go there now...I mean, she's fine, we're fine" It made me wonder what that portended.

  • Musha.4025Musha.4025 Member ✭✭

    @Tanith.5264 said:
    I forget which of the DRM's it occurs in, but if you ask Marjory about Kas during one of them she seems to get rattled and changes the subject. Something along the lines of "Let's not go there now...I mean, she's fine, we're fine" It made me wonder what that portended.

    Well that's something they've been dealing with since LW3, when Kas just stood there while Balth almost killed Jory. Things Kas said in PoF and what they've said in LW4 and IBS indicates that they've either decided to break up or are trying to work through some stuff.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    At this point in the story, I see that Dragon Watch is at the disbanding time of their life. It is also understandable since we are close to the end of the Elder Dragon Storyline and they may need to start the Commander back to being alone during the beginning of the new storyline set after the Elder Dragon Storyline ending so he/she can start up a new group of companions or he/she becomes more of a solo adventurer.

    Dragon's Watch was formed to be a small group to replace Destiny's Edge with Rytlock being the mentor/veteran member of the group due to how members of Destiny Edge began having issues that lead to their current positions now.

    Now the members of Dragon's Watch are heading into the same direction that caused Destiny Edge to be disband as well with each member having their own personal issues that may force them to leave the group and remain behind.

    Taimi's case is more serious because her condition is confirmed at a critical condition stage and there maybe no cure for it and even if there is, it may require her to stay behind to maintain treatment until they are certain she can go on without it.

    Rox has basically retired already to be a member of the Olmakhan.

    Braham may move on with his life after Icebrood Saga or at the end of the Elder Dragon storyline since his goal in life has been achieved.

    Marjory and Kasmeer is up to debate but I feel they may choose to settle down after the Elder Dragon Storyline ends.

    Rytlock has his own issues and recent story feels like they are preparing for his retirement from the group.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    @Musha.4025 said:
    I mean Rox is Charr and there was a Charr civil war! Her involvement in that would have been captivating! At least tell us where she is!

    Rox left the Legions and Dragon's Watch to become an Olmakhan.

    Where has Canach been during the entire Icebrood Saga?

    He probably stayed in Amnoon to gamble.

    Marjory was with us in episode 1, where did she go?

    Marjory probably didn't fully recover yet from her break down and, unlike Kasmeer and Logan (which are representatives of Queen Jenna's Seraph and Mesmers supporting the Legions), she had no business with the civil war.

    Taimi? Gorrik? I don't think we hear from either of those 2 throughout the entire Saga.

    Taimi has been in Rata Sum, researching. She is in one of the DRMs, shrieking our ears off.

    The Commander has definitely been portrayed as a caring individual, especially towards members of Dragon's Watch. So not keeping up with our friends, keeping up communication with them, or at the very least, simply knowing where they are, makes zero sense for the character, and really disrupts the flow of the story for me.

    We don't know if the commander is keeping contact with them off-screen or not.
    To me, constantly mentioning characters that are absent and irrelevant in current situations would be more disrupting to the flow.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Come to think on it, I've got to wonder if some of the source of tension between Marjory and Kasmeer is an imbalance in status and responsibility.

    When the two got together, Marjory was the senior partner in the detective agency, but they were still reasonably close to being equals. Now, though, Kasmeer has been reinstated to noble status, seems to be fairly high up in the Queen's confidences, and has been given responsibilities to suit that might well be taking her attention away from the relationship (her appearance in the civil war, for instance, points to her being viewed as being at least on a similar level of importance to Logan, when Logan isn't acting as the Pact Marshal). Marjory, however, is pretty much still where she's always been. Combined with the fact that Marjory has been implied to have a certain degree of dislike for the Krytan nobility, and even if she's not consciously thinking in these terms, it might have become an unspoken barrier between them.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Come to think on it, I've got to wonder if some of the source of tension between Marjory and Kasmeer is an imbalance in status and responsibility.

    When the two got together, Marjory was the senior partner in the detective agency, but they were still reasonably close to being equals. Now, though, Kasmeer has been reinstated to noble status, seems to be fairly high up in the Queen's confidences, and has been given responsibilities to suit that might well be taking her attention away from the relationship (her appearance in the civil war, for instance, points to her being viewed as being at least on a similar level of importance to Logan, when Logan isn't acting as the Pact Marshal). Marjory, however, is pretty much still where she's always been. Combined with the fact that Marjory has been implied to have a certain degree of dislike for the Krytan nobility, and even if she's not consciously thinking in these terms, it might have become an unspoken barrier between them.

    Marjory does appear to be heading down the path of something in recent events of Champions. Where they may lead her, we will just have to see.

    Kasmeer on the other hand has basically become a political representative for Kryta when it comes to diplomatic matters so we may consider her retired from Dragon's Watch since she has a new job. Still it is a job that will put her in a lot of positions to constantly return especially when we go to Cantha and future locations in the new Storyline set after the Elder Dragon Storyline to meet new Kingdoms and organizations

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Come to think on it, I've got to wonder if some of the source of tension between Marjory and Kasmeer is an imbalance in status and responsibility.

    When the two got together, Marjory was the senior partner in the detective agency, but they were still reasonably close to being equals. Now, though, Kasmeer has been reinstated to noble status, seems to be fairly high up in the Queen's confidences, and has been given responsibilities to suit that might well be taking her attention away from the relationship (her appearance in the civil war, for instance, points to her being viewed as being at least on a similar level of importance to Logan, when Logan isn't acting as the Pact Marshal). Marjory, however, is pretty much still where she's always been. Combined with the fact that Marjory has been implied to have a certain degree of dislike for the Krytan nobility, and even if she's not consciously thinking in these terms, it might have become an unspoken barrier between them.

    I wish we could actually witness their dynamic. They have barely been in the same room together since season 3, years ago. I honestly never noticed any turbulence in their relationship, but people mention they’ve been on the rocks for a while. My memory isn’t the best when it comes to the test of time, though.

    If they’re going to break up or stay together, I would like to actually see the development there. Personally, I’d like them to thrive as a couple. I am tentatively expecting some relationship drama in EoDs with Marjory and Kasmeer featuring as prominent companions for that expansion. Kasmeer as a diplomatic representative of Kryta, and Marjory coming along to explore her ancestral homeland/act as a potential cultural lens for us. I imagine Kasmeer would be more of a secondary or tertiary character in EoDs working as a diplomat in the background but popping up for relevant scenes with Marjory. They’re long overdue for content/development as a couple one way or another.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svennis.3852 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Come to think on it, I've got to wonder if some of the source of tension between Marjory and Kasmeer is an imbalance in status and responsibility.

    When the two got together, Marjory was the senior partner in the detective agency, but they were still reasonably close to being equals. Now, though, Kasmeer has been reinstated to noble status, seems to be fairly high up in the Queen's confidences, and has been given responsibilities to suit that might well be taking her attention away from the relationship (her appearance in the civil war, for instance, points to her being viewed as being at least on a similar level of importance to Logan, when Logan isn't acting as the Pact Marshal). Marjory, however, is pretty much still where she's always been. Combined with the fact that Marjory has been implied to have a certain degree of dislike for the Krytan nobility, and even if she's not consciously thinking in these terms, it might have become an unspoken barrier between them.

    I wish we could actually witness their dynamic. They have barely been in the same room together since season 3, years ago. I honestly never noticed any turbulence in their relationship, but people mention they’ve been on the rocks for a while. My memory isn’t the best when it comes to the test of time, though.

    If they’re going to break up or stay together, I would like to actually see the development there. Personally, I’d like them to thrive as a couple. I am tentatively expecting some relationship drama in EoDs with Marjory and Kasmeer featuring as prominent companions for that expansion. Kasmeer as a diplomatic representative of Kryta, and Marjory coming along to explore her ancestral homeland/act as a potential cultural lens for us. I imagine Kasmeer would be more of a secondary or tertiary character in EoDs working as a diplomat in the background but popping up for relevant scenes with Marjory. They’re long overdue for content/development as a couple one way or another.

    Agreed, especially since it's starting to feel a bit like Rytlock and Logan still disliking one another in season 1 despite having resolved their differences in the release storyline, because ArenaNet didn't want to commit to season 1 happening after the death of Zhaitan. It felt like they were supposed to have reconciled at the end of PoF, and then they spent most of season 4 together (but off-screen). Now, they're apparently having problems again. Why? Did some other argument brew up offscreen? Because if they're still having difficulties over something that happened over three years ago now, I'm not convinced that they're ever going to recover.

  • Zychuu.7294Zychuu.7294 Member ✭✭✭

    The story is a mess if it comes to keeping up with 'old' characters. As many people mentioned they didn't manage to even confirm or deconfirm Zojja's demise or mention her wellbeing in any way for years now. Looks like Dragon's Watch is getting similar treatment. While I enjoy the story most of the time, I don't expect any decency in this manner anymore unfortunately, which is quite sad.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @Zychuu.7294 said:
    The story is a mess if it comes to keeping up with 'old' characters. As many people mentioned they didn't manage to even confirm or deconfirm Zojja's demise or mention her wellbeing in any way for years now. Looks like Dragon's Watch is getting similar treatment. While I enjoy the story most of the time, I don't expect any decency in this manner anymore unfortunately, which is quite sad.

    Honestly, at this point we should probably assume her vegetable state is a permanent and advanced to a point of no return. Timeline wise it has been years since events of Heart of Thorns (every year in our world on Earth is also a year in Tyria timeline) and last time we heard about Zojja, her mind was already degenerating to a point she can hardly talk from what NPCs have said.

    If we see her again I won't be surprised if there is nothing left of her mind and all we get out of her is gibberish.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    @EdwinLi.1284 said:

    @Zychuu.7294 said:
    The story is a mess if it comes to keeping up with 'old' characters. As many people mentioned they didn't manage to even confirm or deconfirm Zojja's demise or mention her wellbeing in any way for years now. Looks like Dragon's Watch is getting similar treatment. While I enjoy the story most of the time, I don't expect any decency in this manner anymore unfortunately, which is quite sad.

    Honestly, at this point we should probably assume her vegetable state is a permanent and advanced to a point of no return. Timeline wise it has been years since events of Heart of Thorns (every year in our world on Earth is also a year in Tyria timeline) and last time we heard about Zojja, her mind was already degenerating to a point she can hardly talk from what NPCs have said.

    If we see her again I won't be surprised if there is nothing left of her mind and all we get out of her is gibberish.

    GW2 uses unreliable narrators frequently though. What we heard from those NPCs in S3 is, in essence, just a rumor. We have no verifiable statements about Zojja's health -- just gossip. That could easily be proved or disproved based on the writers whims, so for now Zojja is just in limbo. She might as well be a vegetable at this point, though. The devs have stated they intended to use her in S4, but that plot got scrapped (for good reason). So for now I'll believe they're intending to bring her back eventually, but they need to right story beat for it (similar to Malyck lol).

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @Svennis.3852 said:

    @EdwinLi.1284 said:

    @Zychuu.7294 said:
    The story is a mess if it comes to keeping up with 'old' characters. As many people mentioned they didn't manage to even confirm or deconfirm Zojja's demise or mention her wellbeing in any way for years now. Looks like Dragon's Watch is getting similar treatment. While I enjoy the story most of the time, I don't expect any decency in this manner anymore unfortunately, which is quite sad.

    Honestly, at this point we should probably assume her vegetable state is a permanent and advanced to a point of no return. Timeline wise it has been years since events of Heart of Thorns (every year in our world on Earth is also a year in Tyria timeline) and last time we heard about Zojja, her mind was already degenerating to a point she can hardly talk from what NPCs have said.

    If we see her again I won't be surprised if there is nothing left of her mind and all we get out of her is gibberish.

    GW2 uses unreliable narrators frequently though. What we heard from those NPCs in S3 is, in essence, just a rumor. We have no verifiable statements about Zojja's health -- just gossip. That could easily be proved or disproved based on the writers whims, so for now Zojja is just in limbo. She might as well be a vegetable at this point, though. The devs have stated they intended to use her in S4, but that plot got scrapped (for good reason). So for now I'll believe they're intending to bring her back eventually, but they need to right story beat for it (similar to Malyck lol).

    At this point, I think they have completely forgotten about Malyck.

    The developers themselves admited they do sometimes forget characters exists which is why Laranthir was forgotten about after Heart of Thorns until recent events of Icebrood Saga.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    @EdwinLi.1284 said:

    @Svennis.3852 said:

    @EdwinLi.1284 said:

    @Zychuu.7294 said:
    The story is a mess if it comes to keeping up with 'old' characters. As many people mentioned they didn't manage to even confirm or deconfirm Zojja's demise or mention her wellbeing in any way for years now. Looks like Dragon's Watch is getting similar treatment. While I enjoy the story most of the time, I don't expect any decency in this manner anymore unfortunately, which is quite sad.

    Honestly, at this point we should probably assume her vegetable state is a permanent and advanced to a point of no return. Timeline wise it has been years since events of Heart of Thorns (every year in our world on Earth is also a year in Tyria timeline) and last time we heard about Zojja, her mind was already degenerating to a point she can hardly talk from what NPCs have said.

    If we see her again I won't be surprised if there is nothing left of her mind and all we get out of her is gibberish.

    GW2 uses unreliable narrators frequently though. What we heard from those NPCs in S3 is, in essence, just a rumor. We have no verifiable statements about Zojja's health -- just gossip. That could easily be proved or disproved based on the writers whims, so for now Zojja is just in limbo. She might as well be a vegetable at this point, though. The devs have stated they intended to use her in S4, but that plot got scrapped (for good reason). So for now I'll believe they're intending to bring her back eventually, but they need to right story beat for it (similar to Malyck lol).

    At this point, I think they have completely forgotten about Malyck.

    The developers themselves admited they do sometimes forget characters exists which is why Laranthir was forgotten about after Heart of Thorns until recent events of Icebrood Saga.

    I'd be interested to see where they admit to forgetting specific characters. But in their defense, I can't keep track of most anyone outside Destiny's Edge and Dragon's Watch.

  • TeeracK.3601TeeracK.3601 Member ✭✭
    edited January 18, 2021

    I feel like Rox wouldn't want to get involved in the war. She is probably with the Olmakhan since they have been building them up to become her warband and their whole thing is they want nothing to do with wars.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    @TeeracK.3601 said:
    I feel like Rox wouldn't want to get involved in the war. She is probably with the Olmakhan since they have been building them up to become her warband and their whole thing is they want nothing to do with wars.

    As of now the Olmakhan and Rox are only called on if they are taking the fight to the Elder Dragon. So only expect returns during the final battles against Elder Dragons.

    Rox has basically retired from Dragon's watch at this point.

    What happens to Rox and the Olmakhan after in the new storyline after Elder Dragon Storyline ends is up to speculation since chances are that they become reduced more to cameo appearances.