Mirage DE condi shatter 31.115k benchmark

Hi all :)Since the Mirage reveal i was hoping for a clone-based dps build for PvE, something fresh and funny instead of the phantasm camper builds to which we are used to.But then the only mirage build that came out is a cMesm buff and i was a bit disappointed, on the paper there is so much potential in the ambush and it's share mechanic.

So i tried to build something new, choosing all the traits pushing into clone generation, ambushes, shatters and cmesm build.First i focused on shatters and this is the best result i had:

Then, thanks to a friend's idea, i realised that the clone created with the trait"Deceptive Evasion" (that creates a clone on dodge) spawns with the ambush ready. This synchronizes a lot in the build behaviour and resulted in better dps and simpler gameplay.

• Normal boons + vigor(70% solo uptime, need some help to 100% but very possible. Also Condi mirage has it in benchmark so i put it)
• Full viper or 67% duration with viper + sinister is same dps from some test, pizza+toxic crystal.
• Duel: x-3-3 || Illu: 1-3-2 || Mrg: 3-3-1. berserker runes, malice + geomancy. Sword is to proc Fencer's finesse, almost got same damage with torch.

The fact is that this damage is not the top. Far away from the DPS builds. Still """""""viable"""""", probably, but this needs a consistent buff to be optimal.I very hope that this is gonna be a thing because it's different, it's frenzied, is what i imagine a mesmer should beAlso doesn't have a big ramp-up time, doesn't loose much damage changing target and has more cleave damage.

How to improve it? Focusing on that traits that don't affect the normal condi mirage build, or at least in a minimal part: (PvE Only)

1. BUG: Axe trait in mirage traitbar doesn't affect clone's ambush and only spawns 2 Phantasmal axes. Fixing this is a good dps increase, cause more confusion and more attacks from an illusion will proc bleeding more.
2. Increase the duration of Condies on shatters: a) Base confusion-on-shatter on illusion traitbar, b)Base torment-on-shatter from illu master trait, c) Base confusion-on-blinds from grandmaster on duelings (only for the phantasm build)
3. Add a "Increased Torment duration by X%" in "Main the disillusioned" trait in Illusion. Cause torment is a core condi on axe and is frustrating to cap only confusion in this build, also it'll looks like better!
4. Change the trait "Phantasmal Fury" in dueling to give Fury to all illusions, clones included. Cause if you use the DE build, all the traits are useles in that column, and more crits means more bleeding
5. EXTRA >! Add, or change confusion duration trait, to have a "Confusion damage increased by x%". Like a lot of classes have refering to their top condition. (PS: DE shatter has confusion as the main condition)
6. EXTRA >! Split condition duration from Mirage traits, to give 20%-->10% in "Dune cloak" and 10% baseline or in "Riddle of sand" or in another traitline i dunno

Thanks all and sorry for the bad english, mesmer confused me so much :D

TLDR:

This is the kind of build Anet should aim to improve, not a pistol duelist build. It answers a lot of complaints about mesmer AoE DPS and provides a shattering DPS build. Hope they take steps to make this the best build for Mirage in raids.

Can we get a gw2skills build link?

Nice build!

Probably a noobish question, but where does your alacrity come from? And what are the "Normal boons?"

@Coulter.2315 said:This is the kind of build Anet should aim to improve, not a pistol duelist build. It answers a lot of complaints about mesmer AoE DPS and provides a shattering DPS build. Hope they take steps to make this the best build for Mirage in raids.

Yeah. Honestly it's not the top AoE damage, but still much higher than normal phantasm builds

@UrMom.4205 said:Can we get a gw2skills build link?

Edited :dizzy:

@LiesAndErr.2085 said:Nice build!

Probably a noobish question, but where does your alacrity come from? And what are the "Normal boons?"

"Normal boons" is the standard boon set for testing in a realistic raid envionment. The alacrity will come from a chrono or a renegade in my party!

@Mich.1793 said:

@UrMom.4205 said:Can we get a gw2skills build link?

thats nice to see . this is what i wanted from a dps mes build .

obviously HI baseline would improve this buildi don't think anet will give mesmer a trait that increase torment damage or duration for pvp reasons.f2 condition stack should be buffed a lot in pve .fury trait can be changed to : illusion gain fury .speed of sand baseline (it's stupid anyway .) replace it with a new trait : when you are under effect or vigor , touching mirage mirror will also do a f2 shatter on yourself with all traited effects .

Have you done a benchmark without using crystal sands? I ask because its really only useful on stationary targets imo, if they move then not all of the shards are goingto hit them, and the mirror might be out of your way.

YES! Well done!

Thank you for taking the time to post this and at least somewhat validate DE, IH and even Axe. DE with IH is very powerful and extremely fluid to play - especially if you dodge during axe 2 straight into ambush.

I'm not a pve numbers guy so wouldn't have been able to do this kind of test, so I'm grateful that you have as it is in support of in my opinion the best and most fun Mirage playstyle and one that Anet should be looking to push Mirage further down.

@Coulter.2315 said:This is the kind of build Anet should aim to improve, not a pistol duelist build. It answers a lot of complaints about mesmer AoE DPS and provides a shattering DPS build. Hope they take steps to make this the best build for Mirage in raids.

Hell yes, I fully agree - more unique and more fun than the boring phantasm way.

This is a cool build, thanks for posting it. A friend of mine has been theorycrafting something similar for a bit and it looks really close. This changes targets much better than the standard condition Mirage build, and overall looks like a lot of fun. I might see if I can't get my guild to let me try this sometime on something like Sabetha just to see what numbers I can pull.

This is awesome and I am very glad to see a build like this! To echo the other posters, I also agree that this is the sort of build that ANET should be focusing on when making Mirage tweaks, since it actually offers a far different playstyle than what we’re used to.

I do have some questions about your build:

1. I didn’t realize you can proc Fencer’s Fineness on your own without actually using sword clones, which is really cool! However, in your video, you do not use any OH sword skills. Based on this, could you potentially drop the sword for a torch (or pistol and pick up Duelist’s Discipline) and use the Prestige/P.Duelists for more DPS in your rotation?

2. Another method of generating Confusion on shatter is through Blinding Dissipation/Ineptitude (instead of DE), of which applies a longer stack of confusion (albeit slightly over Riddle of Sands). Have you tried running Blinding Dissipation/Ineptitude and using Self-Deception (w/Jaunt, C.Oasis, or C.Shards) for clone generation to see if that helps with the DPS, or does the benefit of having the clone spawn with an ambush from DE more powerful?

3. To follow on the previous point, I believe that Self-Deception generates more clones with Jaunt/C.Shards/C.Oasis slotted since DE is limited to endurance. Based on the video, I think you could slip in some more Mind Wracks (for confusion/torment) in between your CoFs if you ran this way. Thoughts?

In any case, thank you for the time and awesome guide/video!! Keep up the great work!!Edit: Formatting

Thank you so much for the positive feedback!

@Curunen.8729 said:Thank you for taking the time to post this and at least somewhat validate DE, IH and even Axe. DE with IH is very powerful and extremely fluid to play - especially if you dodge during axe 2 straight into ambush.

Yeah it's very cool, btw you need to dodge after the #2 clone spawns and only spawns after the skill animation is complete

@LordSheep.4610 said:

1. I didn’t realize you can proc Fencer’s Fineness on your own without actually using sword clones, which is really cool! However, in your video, you do not use any OH sword skills. Based on this, could you potentially drop the sword for a torch (or pistol and pick up Duelist’s Discipline) and use the Prestige/P.Duelists for more DPS in your rotation?

Yes it procs even if you don't use any sword skill, but only if a sword is equipped so trait + torch won't work (tested :P). So what's triggering that trait? It's the axe ambush aaaand probably it's a bug too, sadly (that's the motivation in choosing the sword instead of the torch, so you could see that xD).

@LordSheep.4610 said:

2. Another method of generating Confusion on shatter is through Blinding Dissipation/Ineptitude (instead of DE), of which applies a longer stack of confusion (albeit slightly over Riddle of Sands). Have you tried running Blinding Dissipation/Ineptitude and using Self-Deception (w/Jaunt, C.Oasis, or C.Shards) for clone generation to see if that helps with the DPS, or does the benefit of having the clone spawn with an ambush from DE more powerful?

3. To follow on the previous point, I believe that Self-Deception generates more clones with Jaunt/C.Shards/C.Oasis slotted since DE is limited to endurance. Based on the video, I think you could slip in some more Mind Wracks (for confusion/torment) in between your CoFs if you ran this way. Thoughts?Well i do tried duel 3-1-2, but not in combination with Self-Deception. Honestly, yes it could be better, but need some testing and also will make mandatory Jaunt as elite for clone generation

@Mich.1793 said:Thank you so much for the positive feedback!

@Curunen.8729 said:Thank you for taking the time to post this and at least somewhat validate DE, IH and even Axe. DE with IH is very powerful and extremely fluid to play - especially if you dodge during axe 2 straight into ambush.

Oh? I've been dodging towards the end of the animation and didn't pay much attention to the axe2 clone over the DE clone, but yeah you're right it won't trigger until it's spawned. So generally it's a triple ambush if having 1 clone out and then the DE clone, without the axe2 clone joining in unless you dodge after axe2 finishes. Thanks for pointing that out - sometimes I tend to not notice certain things for ages!

I made a similar shatter build, and got similar results. I did find a usage issue, though. The buffed shatters is really good for killing small enemies faster, but overall it is really difficult to keep track of shatters alongside of everything else. The sustained clone build does similar damage to the shatter build, but not having to keep track of shatters makes it lower maintenance.

Nice testing,I tried something similar when PoF was released, with Blinding Dissipation & Ineptitude & Mirror Images instead of Crystal Sands, had similar results too (always around 30k, could be pushed a bit).The Shatter builds are much more fun to play than the normal AFK ones, if only they were slightly more powerful. :'(

This 31k i had can be pushed for sure. I'm not the rotation master, didn't have infusions, didn't check spreadsheet for the build and probably renegade runes are better.

Btw as you can see, there is a mean 35-40 confusion stacks on the golem. How does confusion works on most bosses? How many seconds does it proc on skill?I've never investigated on this honestly and could be a fair good dps. I mean, 40 stacks do around 6k damage and if this happens every 3 seconds is 2k dps more

EDIT: thanks to Xioulious from Reddit managed to get this New traits 32.2k on large and 28k on small hitboxGw2Skill build

This is not even a DE build, we could call it Mirage IH Chaos, or Infinite Chaos Mirage :dizzy:

@Mich.1793 said:EDIT: thanks to Xioulious from Reddit managed to get this New traits 32.2k on large and 28k on small hitboxGw2Skill build

This is not even a DE build, we could call it Mirage IH Chaos, or Infinite Chaos Mirage :dizzy:

:D Duelling/Chaos/Mirage is awesome across all game modes including pvp and wvw.

I'm glad to learn how you've optimised it for pve dps and I'll be sure to adapt when doing t4 fractals.

@Curunen.8729 said:

@Mich.1793 said:EDIT: thanks to Xioulious from Reddit managed to get this

New traits 32.2k on large and 28k on small hitbox

Gw2Skill build

This is not even a DE build, we could call it Mirage IH Chaos, or Infinite Chaos Mirage :dizzy:

Perfect! I'm new to mesmer and I've been trying all sorts of things to make a build that feels right and can be easily adapted to other content. Chaos wasn't fitting in my mind, so I more or less ignored it. But after trying it, it feels really versatile.

This is the open world variant I've been using. It's working really well and it feels great in combat!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnELDNohFMDWoBMMjlZjqMAqtczf+7//3MEWhPA-jxxHQBjTfAteCAzT9Hyt/AAOFADU5XGVCSIgFrBA-e

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:

@Mich.1793 said:EDIT: thanks to Xioulious from Reddit managed to get this

New traits 32.2k on large and 28k on small hitbox

Gw2Skill build

This is not even a DE build, we could call it Mirage IH Chaos, or Infinite Chaos Mirage :dizzy:

I don't want to go on a tangent and derail this thread, but I have to say that a solid combo with Chaos is traited Mirror heal with adventurer runes - an extra dodge every 12s. Mind you that's more useful for wvw roaming. Anyway in general I think Illusions (the traitline) is a bit of a red herring with mirage and the real deal lies with Chaos and Duelling (just like Chrono had amazing synergy with Illusions and Inspiration).

Without the extra torment and confusion from Illusions, is it even worth shattering?

@Levetty.1279 said:Without the extra torment and confusion from Illusions, is it even worth shattering?

No, and oddly, if you are using axe clones, IH, DE, SD, and AoS all hurt your DPS because they all interrupt your clone autos, and don't do enough to make up for losing auto #3. Lingering Thoughts does do enough damage to make up for replacing clones, even without a field, but it's close, with a field it's a boost. The highest damage I could get was Mirage 2 or 3/3/3, Dueling any/any/1, Chaos 1/2/3. Open with AoS, then spawn clones and use utilities and axe 2 when available (plus weapon and prestige if using geomancy or torch) . AoS should only be used to retarget.

FInally someone benchmarked my build! And finally a shattter build has merit. Phantasms are boring.

@Kobeathris.3645 said:

@Levetty.1279 said:Without the extra torment and confusion from Illusions, is it even worth shattering?

Axes of Symmetry is also an evade, but if it does lose DPS it isn't much.

That said, the biggest problem with these shatter builds is that they spend so much on generating clones. When I tested my dueling/illusions/mirage shatter build, I quickly found that it plays almost exactly like the clone build, except that it uses a Cry of Frustration every 21 second. If you're dealing with smaller enemies, Mind Wrack is also useful, but aside from that the build really doesn't shatter much at all. The only clone generating skills I've needed are Lingering Thoughts and Self--Deception, and that includes spamming mind wrack against hordes of smaller enemies.

Maybe if you're in PVP you'll need more clones, but in PVE even Self-Deception can be overkill at times. That said, here is my mythical "shatter" build.

Dueling: 3,2,1Illusions: 1,3,1Mirage: 1,3,3Gear: All Vipers, Berserker Runes, Sigil of Malice + GeomancyWeapons: Axe/Torch + Pistol. Scepter/Pistol if ranged attacks are needed.Utilities: False Oasis, Crystal Sands, the two condi Signets, Jaunt.

I've been using this for fractals and wandering the overworld. A keen eye will notice that this build is a mere 2 traits off of the phantasm build. That isn't by accident: the build can either use clones if it wants to, or phantasms if it wants to. If I know I'll need phantasms coming up, it is really easy to swap to Phantasmal Haste from Maim the Disillusioned, and Self-Deception to another random trait. Then I use the healing signet, and I can maintain 3 phantasms pretty easily.

The rotation I go through is usually re-cast The Prestige, then go Crystal Sands -> Lingering Thoughts -> Jaunt -> Lingering Thoughts -> Axes of Symmetry -> Cry of Frustration. I open with Crystal Sands because the mirror provides much needed defense while spamming axe 2 against the forge, otherwise I have to dodge mid rotation and that forces me to float my hands. If I'm fighting a particularly stubborn enemy I'll weapon swap, then a second later use Lingering Thoughts -> Jaunt -> Jaunt- > Mind Wrack. By then, most vets are also dead. If there is an elite or something, I'll just spawn the phantasms and use whatever skills I haven't used yet, maintaining a standard damage rotation.

I do wonder why everyone uses the chaos line for the clone build instead of illusions.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I do wonder why everyone uses the chaos line for the clone build instead of illusions.

Because it gives higher theoretical damage in a benchmark?Chaotic Persistence = Huge condi duration increase.Descent into Madness = Free damage.Also even more damage with Chaotic Interruption and Ineptitude.