Remove Part. for Rep. Walls

We all know the afkers who just want to game the system by repairing walls and doing nothing or little else. Is this an action we really want to incentivize? No. One gets plenty of participation from capturing stuff, killing npcs, and lots from, gasp, killing players. Incentivising repairing walls encourages unnecessarily draining supply that may be dowerly needed later. It's like incentivising building siege and just doesn't belong, not needed, and needs to go asap. Seems like this would be an easy fix. I know PoF is on the horizion, but this should be a simple priority.

Thanks

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:We all know the afkers who just want to game the system by repairing walls and doing nothing or little else. Is this an action we really want to incentivize? No. One gets plenty of participation from capturing stuff, killing npcs, and lots from, gasp, killing players. Incentivising repairing walls encourages unnecessarily draining supply that may be dowerly needed later. It's like incentivising building siege and just doesn't belong, not needed, and needs to go asap. Seems like this would be an easy fix. I know PoF is on the horizion, but this should be a simple priority.

Thanks

I hear you. But do you want people just randomly building seize in bad areas and all Walmart versions?

I don't think we need to change this.

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:We all know the afkers who just want to game the system by repairing walls and doing nothing or little else. Is this an action we really want to incentivize? No. One gets plenty of participation from capturing stuff, killing npcs, and lots from, gasp, killing players. Incentivising repairing walls encourages unnecessarily draining supply that may be dowerly needed later. It's like incentivising building siege and just doesn't belong, not needed, and needs to go asap. Seems like this would be an easy fix. I know PoF is on the horizion, but this should be a simple priority.

Thanks

Repairing walls and building siege are two really different things for a simple reason : a wall needs to be damaged before you can repair it. It's thus not necessarily a waste of supply, and it's usually quite useful. Whatever, it implies an attack, so it's not as easily exploitable than building siege. That's why I'm strongly against punishing wall repairs.

About siege, it's easier to exploit, I can agree with that, but as long as building siege is part of "normal" WvW activity, it shouldn't be punished for the sole reason that some people exploit it.

Repairing some walls (a paper SMC outer walls as an example) may not be the optimal use for the supplies, but its not inherently bad. At least the supplies are going to something marginally useful. If someone is repairing because they think they should, someone should explain to them why its not a good idea. Someone who is doing it just to keep participation is going to find something to do. Might as well fix a wall vs finding someone to trade camp captures with.

I sometimes WvW for a few hours and honestly being able to tap a wall or gate occasionally to refresh my participation timer is useful. Also, I don't think it's a bad thing for the game to encourage the maintenance of keeps and towers, especially if they are substantially upgraded. I'm happy with how things are with regards to walls and doors.

There should be no participation for building siege either. These are just no brainers. There's plenty of things to do that increase and maintain participation without these sabotaging practices.

its not bad to encouragee rep and sieges. so ppl do it.

but trolls, rewards or none will do it anyway.

therefore how ro deal with trolls is the issue

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:There should be no participation for building siege either. These are just no brainers. There's plenty of things to do that increase and maintain participation without these sabotaging practices.

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Nevertheless, sieges are a part of the game WvW, and even if you consider them "no brainers", they are part of the game, and they're useful. I'm still wondering how you actually open an objective... Do you just smash the door ? (Tell about no brainer) Or are you just looking for fights in the open space ? This is not what WvW is designed for.

I understand there can be trolls who build siege to waste supply. I also understand there can be unexperienced players that don't know where to put siege, or when it's roughly a waste to repair walls. Yet none of these is a sufficient reason to remove that game mechanic from WvW. Don't throw the baby with the bathwater.

I don't think this is a problem. Squeezing the ways roamers and scouts get participation and eke out a little wxp is not a good idea. We need scouts and roamers more than we need to punish a handful of people of whose gameplay you do not approve.

Building siege does not give participation, maybe cannons/oils/mortars, but the rest won't.

What we need to avoid AFKing is gradual participation and prioritizing War Score.

No action from defending an objective should count until the location scores. And the participation should count more the more of that defense is your doing. You just repair 1% of a wall that is never repaired 100%? You get just 1% participation. You repair a wall that gets repaired 100%? You get participation relative to your repair. You attack players who run away? Use siege disablers? Kill an invader?

Take into account all what happened during a defense, determine how much of it happened because of a player, and reward accordingly.

Since War Score determines what world gets more pips and rewards, getting more War Score and being more responsible of getting War Score should be what determines how much a player is rewarded too.

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:What we need to avoid AFKing is gradual participation and prioritizing War Score.

No action from defending an objective should count until the location scores. And the participation should count more the more of that defense is your doing. You just repair 1% of a wall that is never repaired 100%? You get just 1% participation. You repair a wall that gets repaired 100%? You get participation relative to your repair. You attack players who run away? Use siege disablers? Kill an invader?

Take into account all what happened during a defense, determine how much of it happened because of a player, and reward accordingly.

Since War Score determines what world gets more pips and rewards, getting more War Score and being more responsible of getting War Score should be what determines how much a player is rewarded too.

Would that also include the participation percent of killing an enemy player, or capping a tower?

@diamondgirl.6315 said:I don't think this is a problem. Squeezing the ways roamers and scouts get participation and eke out a little wxp is not a good idea. We need scouts and roamers more than we need to punish a handful of people of whose gameplay you do not approve.

When did I ever bring up WXP? I didn't. I'm talking about participation. I spend half my play time roaming by myself. I have 0 issue maintaining tier 6 without repairing anything. And if you are truly "scouting," staying in one structure to keep an eye on it, then you're in a squad, part of a team, and you should have squad participation. If there's no organized group to respond to your stationary scouting, then you're serving nothing as there would be no one to respond to your calls. Better to just run around and cap camps, kill dolyaks, kill sentries, etc.

All I'm seeing is a bunch of whining and excuses from people who like to repair walls and don't want to play the game.

@ThomasC.1056 said:

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:There should be no participation for building siege either. These are just no brainers. There's plenty of things to do that increase and maintain participation without these sabotaging practices.

Games are mostly based on incentives. If you get rid of the incentives for something that is destructive to WvW, i.e. a bunch of people standing around and wasting supply repairing walls being attacked, then that behavior will be decreased. There are lots of ways to maintain participation without it. Hence, no brainer. If you can't maintain above T3 participation without repairing a wall, then I think you need to work at the other no brainer ways of gaining participation.

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:

@diamondgirl.6315 said:I don't think this is a problem. Squeezing the ways roamers and scouts get participation and eke out a little wxp is not a good idea. We need scouts and roamers more than we need to punish a handful of people of whose gameplay you do not approve.

No, I brought up wxp. You are rather making my point, which is that people contribute in ways that don't relate to how you think they should be playing. There are people who scout and aren't in a squad, and a lot of the time they ARE the people who 'run around and cap camps, kill dolyaks, kill sentries, etc.' Run back from spawn, repair a tower wall, make note in mapchat of some enemies, wait out 30 seconds of RI at a camp and take it with whoever else is running by... no need to take up a participation slot from the map commander, who may have his/her three scout spots already full with people who are, as you mentioned, stationary scouting a particular objective.

"I have 0 issue maintaining tier 6 without repairing anything. " That's great. I am just not sure why you want to strip any methods of gaining participation that you don't personally use, for the sake of maybe sticking it to a small number of people.

@diamondgirl.6315 said:I am just not sure why you want to strip any methods of gaining participation that you don't personally use, for the sake of maybe sticking it to a small number of people.

Because I want those spots taken by people who actually want to play, don't want to game the system, and not sit in a long que or get discouraged and not even play because there's a massive que on EB. Because I want people on a map to actually attack, defend, join a squad, participate, and not sit around SM. PARTICIPATE!!!!

I think it should stay the way it is. Those 1-2 players repping wall(s) could very well be the ones who just got your commander some time before the enemy blasts through.

Either that or they're genuinely working on achievements like defending objectives or repair master... lord knows. They're technically 'playing' the game correctly, then.

@Zephyra.4709 said:I think it should stay the way it is. Those 1-2 players repping wall(s) could very well be the ones who just got your commander some time before the enemy blasts through.

This or they could just be the random player who happens to scout an enemy zerg, and alert a commander to get to the tower/keep ASAP,

If your server has good map control, then that 10 supply here and there will not make a difference, as the dollies from the camps should be continuously getting supply to the towers/keep and if needed SMC.

i think most of these happen because of player ignorance because new players come in casually. so have a guy rp as wvw guide every raid so he can teach new guys. and in the end, more people are informed how to play the game good for your server.

How about we stop caring for little issues like that and start talking about important game changes?

what big issues?

This is like the 5th time this type of thing has been posted. Why do you care what others do? They are not cheating! To repair walls and treb things are part of WvW. I suggest you focus on yourself my friend!