Lightning Reflexes and Hornet Sting Suggestion

Can we have these two to be directiobal skills?So depending on walking direction we do a dodge roll via skill?Would give tgose two more use and you could evade towards your target not just away from it.

Also Hornet sting needs the evade frame as soon as it starts to be animated witgout any delay.

Yeah for the longest time I was thinking the same, even for the thief's roll for initiative and the revenant's riposting shadow (hell even some weapon skills that make the player dodge BACK should become directional...)

Kinda weird to say, roll BACK into danger when you're trying to run away from it when its behind you

@ProtoMarcus.7649 said:Yeah for the longest time I was thinking the same, even for the thief's roll for initiative and the revenant's riposting shadow (hell even some weapon skills that make the player dodge BACK should become directional...)

Kinda weird to say, roll BACK into danger when you're trying to run away from it when its behind you

I also could serve as a gap closer and you could skip AoEs in front of you.Also also i would finally have a directly available gap closer on sword which would be fantastic.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:Also Hornet sting needs the evade frame as soon as it starts to be animated witgout any delay.Agreed - I recall participating in threads about that in the past. As far as I know, making Hornet Sting an instant evade has been requested since the game was released.

This would be a nice change. I'm so used to about-facing that I don't mind it as much now, but this would be a huge benefit to positioning properly with Lightning Reflexes when immobilized.

I saw this and I wanted to be don't f with my lightning reflexes but gdamn another all net shot by the QR

I'd love those changes.whether that happens... I'm highly doubtful.

Why aren't either of those abilities like a mesmer blink or a thief steal?So clunky...They should both be instacast.no wind up at alland more time between sword 2's second ability. WOuld make the Ranger a lot more evasive.As it is now, you are forced to use the second leap very quickly.Maybe I want to wait for my target to come to me before I decide to use 2nd leap

@"ProtoMarcus.7649" said:Yeah for the longest time I was thinking the same, even for the thief's roll for initiative and the revenant's riposting shadow (hell even some weapon skills that make the player dodge BACK should become directional...)

Kinda weird to say, roll BACK into danger when you're trying to run away from it when its behind you

Eh. Practice makes perfect to be honest. Warriors may get off easy, but there's nothing wrong with raising the skill cap a bit. Also, you can nullify this by binding About Face to a key and just using that immediately before beginning the animations which is what a lot of thieves do for forward rolls. It's doing this or just being very good with the camera that usually discerns the decent/good thieves from the bad ones. Ranger is super strong right now as a whole and I think keeping the skill barriers there is generally a good idea. Perhaps their associated kits just need to be stronger...

Of every "roll" skill in the game, Death's Retreat is definitely the worst because it only moves away from the direction of the target no matter which way your camera is angled or facing; if you wish to close the gap, you need to deselect the target + about face + skill cast (x times) + about face + re-target which can be a huge pain to do into mobile professions or ones with stealth which you may just lose.

The faster dodge responsiveness may be a good request but be careful what you wish for. Odds are this won't come with increased frames, and there's a reason Death Blossom is considered to be terrible; you can punish the ending recovery frames because it only evades for the first portion of the animation. It might seem subtle or no big deal, but this gives the enemy a way longer time to respond to it to interrupt and punish, whereas there is only the beginning of the cast to punish LR/Sting.

If there's one change to make to LR it should be that the Wilderness Knowledge trait procs its cleanses and fury at the beginning of the cast (immediately following the innate cleanses it has) and not at the end after the roll. It causes torment to double-tick during its cleanse period and generally feels kind of clunky for this reason.

@DeceiverX.8361What? His suggestion is more a qol, haveing an extra key just do something that could be a bit more intiuitve doesn't make it less skillfull it's just cleans up the gameplay and skill full gameplay should be more about knowing when to use the skill and activating it at the correct time.

The evade frame on hornets sting would make it better because you often get hit with the skills you were trying to dodge.

personally I'd rather just have it work opposite of the attack chain simply due to the fact that since the auto attack on sword got reworked sword lacks a solid gap closer and once again having to about face to do something that feels clunky and unituitve.

(This is the dumb argument I hear when people don't want them to make it easier to dodge jump, the low threshold makes it super clunky)

As for the cleanse I'm with you but all additions on to skills (beast skill traits, cleanses, ect) in the game happen at time damage portion is applied/skill is channled.

I dislike jump dodge just because it rewards macro abusers more than legitimate players. There's also no reason not to use it.

In the case of the rolls, there are arguments that can be made about positioning. Point and Click aim (Whirlwind Attack) is slower to activate in general, and WASD-input limits possible angles. I speak as a thief player here that I genuinely prefer having the roll as it is versus other skills because it allows for me to play better and reposition more accurately much faster with lots of practice. LR's animation is just a bit clunkier than Withdraw and RFI's. I'd really suggest you try the thief out and use those animations if you haven't; I think you'll understand that with the better animation comes way better gameplay. LR seems to have a slight cast delay, and the removal of that would probably be the more impactful QoL change.

Maybe the evade frames for Hornet Sting just need to be moved more towards the center of the animation. Again, I speak as someone with thousands of hours on D/D thief: Death Blossom not evading until the end is horrible and is often defined as being one of the primary reasons D/D isn't a competitive kit in the PvP formats; it's just too punishable. I won't argue for or against it specifically for the ranger because I don't use the weapon, but per my original statement: Be careful what you wish for. If you front-load the evade, it becomes Death Blossom and suffers all of its weaknesses.

For whiffing the evade, this is more or less a problem in the game in general right now: It's hard to evade anything because animations from powercreep have gotten so short or simply don't exist.

Edit: For the cleanse on LR, not all skills apply at the end of the animation. Withdraw's/RFI's extra cleanse when traited with Trickster does not, and the new DE rifle stealth on dodge roll also currently applies on dodge activation and not the end (although this is changing to activate at the end due to self-reveal caused from in-flight projectiles).

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

I think you'll understand that with the better animation comes way better gameplay. LR seems to have a slight cast delay, and the removal of that would probably be the more impactful QoL change.

Indeed. See below.

Maybe the evade frames for Hornet Sting just need to be moved more towards the center of the animation

Skills like Hornet Sting needs to have evade frames throughout the whole animation, activating instantly when you press the key. If they ever were to make a QoL improvements patch, the evading skills, across all professions, would be a good start, and get rid of artificial delays that simply makes the game feel slower for no good reason whatsoever.

I want to be able to use a skill like Hornet Sting based on reaction only, and not having to rely on prediction or beacuse of the fact that I know a specific encounter. The skill is simply too damn slow to use as a reaction tool.

I've been on about this since release, yet Anet still fails to see how simple little things like this would improve the gameplay tenfold.

@DeceiverX.8361

Maybe the evade frames for Hornet Sting just need to be moved more towards the center of the animation. Again, I speak as someone with thousands of hours on D/D thief: Death Blossom not evading until the end is horrible and is often defined as being one of the primary reasons D/D isn't a competitive kit in the PvP formats; it's just too punishable. I won't argue for or against it specifically for the ranger because I don't use the weapon, but per my original statement: Be careful what you wish for. If you front-load the evade, it becomes Death Blossom and suffers all of its weaknesses.

I am not talking about putting the evade frame just in front if the animation. I want the evade throughout the whole animation, from start to finish like a dodge roll. As soon as you press the button it should evade and end as soon you stand still again.Low aftercast ofc. I mean deadblossom should get the same treatment and all other evade skills should just to be vlar here that this is an annoying QoL demanding issue.

I have no problems making both of those abilities go where I want to. About face and just movement management.

I just want the damage removed from Lightning Reflexes. LR just stops dead in its tracks if someone has a shock aura. It's not like other stun breakers with damage that can at least provide some breathing room if that happens. Stomp launches, Glyph of Equality dazes, "You are all Weaklings!" applies weakness, and even Darkrazor's Daring stuns the NPC summon instead of the player.

@"Wondrouswall.7169" said:I just want the damage removed from Lightning Reflexes. LR just stops dead in its tracks if someone has a shock aura. It's not like other stun breakers with damage that can at least provide some breathing room if that happens. Stomp launches, Glyph of Equality dazes, "You are all Weaklings!" applies weakness, and even Darkrazor's Daring stuns the NPC summon instead of the player.

Yeah this could be removed. A daze on the dmg would be another option, but this probably wont justify its CD anymore so i stick to the former.

Yeah. Nothin' fancy needs to be added to it if the damage were removed. A stun break with evade that provides 10s of vigor and removes immobilize on a 30s cooldown is good enough on its own. If anything were to be added, I'd probably want chill and cripple conditions added onto the list of conditions it removes. Could still remain at its current cooldown with that.

@Wondrouswall.7169 said:Yeah. Nothin' fancy needs to be added to it if the damage were removed. A stun break with evade that provides 10s of vigor and removes immobilize on a 30s cooldown is good enough on its own. If anything were to be added, I'd probably want chill and cripple conditions added onto the list of conditions it removes. Could still remain at its current cooldown with that.

Directional controlabbility would still be sweet. I mean twist of fate of weaver is a directional evade and stunbreak and has 2 charges. Dont know why LR or withdraw from thief cant have this.

HS as a weaponskill would benefit greatly from this, it would give PvE finally some use outside from power dps and evading nukes and monarchsleap could be used in a nice conjunction now without interupting the flow.

Twist of Fate is not a directional skill. The player can move in any direction during the animation once activated, far different from having to aim a directional arrow prompt before casting and moving only towards that direction.

@Wondrouswall.7169 said:Twist of Fate is not a directional skill. The player can move in any direction during the animation once activated, far different from having to aim a directional arrow prompt before casting and moving only towards that direction.

Thats a fair point but you know what i try to get ad. It has far more degrees of freedom and is overall the better skill. A directional component on LR and HS would thus be fair.

The problem isn't even the evade frame, it is the 1/2 second wind up cast time of Hornet Sting.It should behave like Debilitaring Arc on the Daredevil staff, or at least be halfed.

We dont need even any directional arrows. Something as simple as if there is no target selected to leap forward otherwise leap in opposite direction would fix most of the issues if not all. And it should not require a complete rework.

@anduriell.6280 said:We dont need even any directional arrows. Something as simple as if there is no target selected to leap forward otherwise leap in opposite direction would fix most of the issues if not all. And it should not require a complete rework.

For HS this would be a bit disadvantagous though. But atleast as a travelling tool it would have its use.But directional would be more versatile in and outside if combat.