Why is Damage Tempest being nerfed?

Okay so, I get it - Weaver is the new kid on the block and most everyone aiming for Meta builds in content is running it but I have to say I genuinely hate the Weaver Staff DPS builds that are Meta for raids and such, they're really quite tedious and just don't feel fun at all.

Now that's subjective so I'll get to the point, I've loved D/D Tempest since the launch of HoT both in PvE and PvP, it's fast and fun to play but also gives that good punch of damage to make it feel powerful enough to kill most anything solo if you can keep yourself up, which is half the fun of the build frankly.

So I have to ask, why did this really trash-talked and hated build that is definitely effective in the hands of the right player get it's damage reduced by 10% with the Tempest Defense nerf? this feels so completely unnecessary and just a further push to kill off anybody playing a Tempest that's not a healer in PvP and just a kick in the teeth for those playing the same builds in PvE - 20% Damage against disabled foes is unacceptable but the ludicrously powerful abilities of the Firebrand are perfectly fine? Seriously?

Shouldn't there be a focus on keeping other builds and weapons more viable for all aspects of the game? I'm aware true balance is not really possible and I don't expect as such but a nerf of any sort to D/D Tempest, which most serious players will laugh off stage, is just so strange to me.

To clarify, I'm going to add that this is primarily a problem with PvP rather than PvE - and that yes, I am aware a Weaver can run it but it's a shame to see it nerfed in PvP as well as it'll likely effect Tempest builds harder than Weavers.

(P.s I love playing Firebrand by the way but that doesn't change how massively str0g it is at a base)(PP.s Removed some shoddy theory and added some clarification)

finally someone who doesnt tunnelvision meteor changes.

yes for most power builds (esp pvp related) it was another huge nerf without any compensation. FA ran it, lightning rod ran it.

@shinta.8906 said:finally someone who doesnt tunnelvision meteor changes.

yes for most power builds (esp pvp related) it was another huge nerf without any compensation. FA ran it, lightning rod ran it.

Indeed! It's really quite irritating that the Meta build changes hog the spotlight and possibly the dev's attention when these kind of balance changes happen and the community get vocal.

Saying that I have faith in ArenaNet's staff to keep an eye on the lesser played but still popular alternatives, I just hope they take a closer look into this change and try to find a better balance for those not running Weaver.

I expected another MS complain as well. Anyways, tempest defense had absolutely 0 reasons to get nerfed outside of pve, but even there, it was just used for one raid boss.

@steki.1478 said:I expected another MS complain as well. Anyways, tempest defense had absolutely 0 reasons to get nerfed outside of pve, but even there, it was just used for one raid boss.

It was also used in almost all fractals and was one of the reasons why weaver had no competition in terms of dps there. You could reach 100k+ dps during burst phases. Try doing that with a different profession.

@steki.1478 said:I expected another MS complain as well. Anyways, tempest defense had absolutely 0 reasons to get nerfed outside of pve, but even there, it was just used for one raid boss.

Honestly, Tempest Defense nerf is irrelevant in PvE. Makes no difference.

Totaly agree with the op on most of what he said i actualy came to the forums to make a similar themed theread myselff when i seen this one but for me im mostly a staff pve player and feel prety disgusted in many of the ele/tempest nerffs.As of last patch dps tempest is down to around 10k dps how is that remotely fair to have so many penaltys such as low base hp/light armour/complex rotation/high skill cap all rolled in to one with no pay off for it ?I cant help but feel like all these changes are designed to force us on to the weaver whether we like it or not and trust me i dont like it and probably never will for alot of reasons mainly coz it strips the ele of the things that made it great i.e flexablity when i look at the weaver all i see is pre nerffed tempest dps at the cost of every defencive trait and utility .I seem to remeber before POF release we got told the new elite specs where not going to replace the old ones and that they would still be relevant feels like empty words right now as far as tempest is concerned.

There's always the risk of creating a support spec that is too effective at dealing damage as well. With that in mind, one way to allow tempests to deal more dps could be to reverse the nerf to Harmonious Conduit. Because its mutually exclusive with Invigorating Torrents, it would effectively make the player choose between dps and support. Buffs to overloads would benefit support tempests too (and buffs to core skills would buff weaver).

@Feanor.2358 said:Honestly, Tempest Defense nerf is irrelevant in PvE. Makes no difference.

IIRC it was used by weavers in fractals to greatly increase burst damage on stunned bosses. The cumulative effect of all the damage modifiers allowed some weavers to reach insanely high dps during the brief stun interval. It effectively made fights so short that players could skip boss mechanics on Nightmare fractal.

To answer your question OP, it's because, whatever the profession, anet tend to try quite a few irrelevant nerfs before nerfing the right thing and fail to revert the irrelevant nerfs after nerfing the right thing. It's the way anet handle balance which is lacking and leave deep scars on all professions achieving unstable balance that leave the professions in a sorry state after numerous number tweeks.

There is quite a few mechanisms in the game that need rework. Be it the elementalist ability to hit the same foe more than once per second with the same skill, the necromancer's shroud, the scourge shroud skills, ranger's spirit... and plenty others, all of these mechanisms badly need a rework, a "cleanse" but anet can't help nerfing everything around, hurting the professions as a whole instead of changing the right thing. They've handled balance like this for almost 6 whole years now and it's worse every years.

@ThiBash.5634 said:IIRC it was used by weavers in fractals to greatly increase burst damage on stunned bosses. The cumulative effect of all the damage modifiers allowed some weavers to reach insanely high dps during the brief stun interval. It effectively made fights so short that players could skip boss mechanics on Nightmare fractal.

It was, but the advantage over using Arcane/Bountiful Power wasn't that big, with Arcane performing better on multiple fights. Now you just play Arcane everywhere. The lowered burst isn't due to the lost damage modifiers, it's due to the crippled Meteor Shower. And it is still high enough to skip boss mechanics. So like I said, it made no real difference.

because the balance team does not consider pvp a game mode much like how druid healing was nerfed for pve and they just decided not to take the extra effort to skill split

@"Feanor.2358" said:It was, but the advantage over using Arcane/Bountiful Power wasn't that big, with Arcane performing better on multiple fights. Now you just play Arcane everywhere. The lowered burst isn't due to the lost damage modifiers, it's due to the crippled Meteor Shower. And it is still high enough to skip boss mechanics. So like I said, it made no real difference.

You're right, my mistake. I didn't get that from your first post, sorry. Snow Crow's new speedclear run basically confirmed what you said too.

Because Anet needs to sell PoF to people who are happy with HoT only raids

I'm okay with Tempest damage getting nerfed, it is a support spec so the damage imo should never of been so high, so long as they buff the support Tempest can do or give it something unique to Tempest only then it'll be fine

@Feanor.2358 said:

@steki.1478 said:I expected another MS complain as well. Anyways, tempest defense had absolutely 0 reasons to get nerfed outside of pve, but even there, it was just used for one raid boss.

Tempest defence was maybe not that good at raids but certainly amazing in fractals.

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@steki.1478 said:I expected another MS complain as well. Anyways, tempest defense had absolutely 0 reasons to get nerfed outside of pve, but even there, it was just used for one raid boss.

And it was outperformed by Bountiful Power on about half the fights. Now it is outperformed basically on all of them. So what difference did it make? Made you switch your traits? Grand achievement, huh?

@Feanor.2358 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@steki.1478 said:I expected another MS complain as well. Anyways, tempest defense had absolutely 0 reasons to get nerfed outside of pve, but even there, it was just used for one raid boss.

Bountiful power was maybe stronger then tempest defence but i think tempest defence and bolt to the heart were beter overal

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@steki.1478 said:I expected another MS complain as well. Anyways, tempest defense had absolutely 0 reasons to get nerfed outside of pve, but even there, it was just used for one raid boss.

More like 6+. The uptime of the damage modifier from TD is not all that great.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@steki.1478 said:I expected another MS complain as well. Anyways, tempest defense had absolutely 0 reasons to get nerfed outside of pve, but even there, it was just used for one raid boss.

Sry, i accidentaly posted the comment that i was writing before without relising i ready wrote something so i changed it as fast as i could. You are right, bountiful power is greater IF you dont have enough dps to phase the boss during the time he is stuned. Then bolt to the heart and tempest defence were better. But right now there is no discusion that bountiful power is better

Edit: the diference is that target that is stuned in fractals takes 50% more damage and that improve sigil of impact, bolt to the heart and tempest defence massively

Better question is to ask why tempest is not getting the same treatment as the scorge class as they fill the AoE dmg / support / tankly roll.