Scourge needs to be overhauled

I'd have thought that the OG scourge boss in Caudecus' Manor would have demonstrated that mobile heavy AOE fields are OP. In fact, the major tactic in that dungeon is to immobilize Turmaine so his OP moving AOE doesn't wipe the party.

When a proto scourge dungeon boss can easily wipe a 5 player team... What on Tyria makes ANET think it's OK for pvp?

I've just come from 2 straight losses against the same scourges. This class should be suspended from PvP until it's set reasonably.

The scourge meta was pretty rampant in WvW, luckily it got a needed nerf recently. Scourge is still strong, but at least it isn't completely brain dead to use.

I think if they copy the nerfs that they did in WvW into the PvP, scourge will be a little more tolerable.

Personally i am not holding my breath, Anet is terrible about balancing.

Mesmer is retardedly op when dueling and needs a massive rework.

That said Necromancer is even worst, it single handed removed melee combat from PVP. That is way way way worst than a relatively op dueling class.

Funny, I make the same argument regarding Mirage. Both specs are broken for PvP by design, not numbers. A similar case could be made against Firebrand. But overhauls and reworks are not going to happen, so we're gonna have to hope they can at least get the number shuffling right. But I think no matter what they do save for absolutely gutting those specs, they've changed PvP forever and they're not going away. Only hope now is they design better specs for PvP in the next expansion and then with those out they will feel more free to gut those 3 specs and make them unviable in PvP.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:What on Tyria makes ANET think it's OK for pvp ?i dont think they thinkjust want to sell necro cuz the previous necro when he use his mechanic he lose healing skill and utilities and elite skill and became immune to conventional healing for a good reasonguess what they did just to sell remove all that and gave the boon converter beast an AOE condi for no reasonand that why i think we ll become Palawa Joko BFF in this living world season cuz he is the scourge of vabbi and as you saw in pvp ANET love scourges

I can't even remember how many times I've solo'd Caudecus Manor 1-3 because no one joined my LFG until after I finished the whole thing.

@mortrialus.3062 said:I can't even remember how many times I've solo'd Caudecus Manor 1-3 because no one joined my LFG until after I finished the whole thing.

That's not possible or at least highly improbable … especially with regard to P2 which is the path that has the Scourge style boss, Turmaine. I don't believe it.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:I can't even remember how many times I've solo'd Caudecus Manor 1-3 because no one joined my LFG until after I finished the whole thing.

He's also not a scourge. He's using the old fashion Plague before it was reworked into Plaguelands :lol:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:I can't even remember how many times I've solo'd Caudecus Manor 1-3 because no one joined my LFG until after I finished the whole thing.

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:I'd have thought that the OG scourge boss in Caudecus' Manor would have demonstrated that mobile heavy AOE fields are OP. In fact, the major tactic in that dungeon is to immobilize Turmaine so his OP moving AOE doesn't wipe the party.

When a proto scourge dungeon boss can easily wipe a 5 player team... What on Tyria makes ANET think it's OK for pvp?

I've just come from 2 straight losses against the same scourges. This class should be suspended from PvP until it's set reasonably.

Probably because a ranger dressed in blues can wipe the floor with an ascended scourge relatively quickly. Hell a single ranger can wipe out multiple scourges without batting an eyelash. Player base just doesn't like to play ranger, that' not a "scourge is OP" problem, it's a player problem.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:I'd have thought that the OG scourge boss in Caudecus' Manor would have demonstrated that mobile heavy AOE fields are OP. In fact, the major tactic in that dungeon is to immobilize Turmaine so his OP moving AOE doesn't wipe the party.

Mmm. It's five up, ten down, can't you burst 'em down in that time?

@Chuck.2864 said:Funny, I make the same argument regarding Mirage. Both specs are broken for PvP by design, not numbers. A similar case could be made against Firebrand. But overhauls and reworks are not going to happen, so we're gonna have to hope they can at least get the number shuffling right. But I think no matter what they do save for absolutely gutting those specs, they've changed PvP forever and they're not going away. Only hope now is they design better specs for PvP in the next expansion and then with those out they will feel more free to gut those 3 specs and make them unviable in PvP.

Pretty much this. It's the base design of mirage and scourge (and to a less extent, firebrand) that is busted. There's no numbers change that either won't render them useless or overpowered. When you can only be at extremes, and nowhere in the middle, there is bad design at play.

Other specs can easily uptuned or downtuned with numbers adjustments. Holo, Soulbeast, Deadeye, Renegade, Spellbreaker, and Weaver can all be adjusted with simple numbers changes and not be broken overpowered or underpowered. The same cannot be said for mirage, scourge, and firebrand.

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:I'd have thought that the OG scourge boss in Caudecus' Manor would have demonstrated that mobile heavy AOE fields are OP. In fact, the major tactic in that dungeon is to immobilize Turmaine so his OP moving AOE doesn't wipe the party.

When a proto scourge dungeon boss can easily wipe a 5 player team... What on Tyria makes ANET think it's OK for pvp?

I've just come from 2 straight losses against the same scourges. This class should be suspended from PvP until it's set reasonably.

Pretty much agree with this, though the play-style of conquest does discourage the use of ranged classes that aren't standing on nodes, and heavily encourages classes that bully things AWAY from them, while holding that node. In the end, I believe that the Scourge hate in conquest stems from this aspect. In other words, it isn't really that Scourge is OP, in fact it is one of the weaker classes if not the weakest, when it comes down to sheer 1v1 prowess, when not worrying about a node cap. It's the natural dynamic of conquest matches, that shuffles player positioning in such a way that Scourge becomes abusive.

@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:Scourge doesn't even have […] the highest boon rip […]As a necro main, thank you for saying this. I've been saying for ages that Scourge has mediocre total boonrip and absolutely no bulk boonrip capabilities. The lack of bulk boonrip makes it a poor boonrip platform. Nobody cares about 1x boonrips, it's the bulk boonrips that are valuable and scourge doesn't have bulk boonrips.

Scourge is dead in solo queue. It's literally non-functional without a firebrand and it has no playmaking capabilities beyond damage which everyone has. Power Reaper has a better toolkit for leaderboard grinding.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Pretty much agree with this, though the play-style of conquest does discourage the use of ranged classes that aren't standing on nodes, and heavily encourages classes that bully things AWAY from them, while holding that node.

This is not how Conquest works. The only time anyone needs to be on a node is if they are defending a held node, otherwise there is no reason to camp a node, particularly since being on a node means you are exposed to all sorts of punishment.

The value of ranged classes is that they can engage a foe without putting themselves at risk. In conquest this is particularly useful because it means they can force a defender off a node without having to expose themselves by being on the node themselves. Ranged classes are also highly valuable in that having long range is the only way to pressure high mobility classes that would otherwise just kite everything. This is why LB ranger is a credible threat to a thief's life, while much higher damage melee classes are completely incapable of bringing down a thief.

Denials notwithstanding, Scourges are crushing it in ranked and they need to be trimmed back.

Like many players I feel mirage is still the biggest offender. The sand savant cooldown nerf is very noticable and it makes scourge less spammy and hard to deal with. Reaper is almost on par with scourge now so just a slight nerf to scourge like should make it perfect but by no means is it as broken as you make it out to be.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:Denials notwithstanding, Scourges are crushing it in ranked and they need to be trimmed back.

But not mesmer. Am I right guys.

@Ithilwen.1529 said:Denials notwithstanding, Scourges are crushing it in ranked and they need to be trimmed back.

Ah yes, but Mesmers are fine. Ecks DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE