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Suggestion /hi & /hiall

Zelanard.5806

By Zelanard.5806
in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

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Zelanard.5806

Zelanard.5806

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Write /hi and everything that comes after, to every one on my friendlist.Write / hiall and everything comes after, to everyone on my friends and followers list.

In other mmos, this have made me able to stay in touch with people on my friend list. It would also be a great way to invite people to open world activities, such as jumping puzzles, HP trains or Event trains.I know, I know there's the LFG for that, but it would still be nice to be able to do it with people you've played with before, without having to write to a lot of people separately, or is that just me?

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starlinvf.1358

starlinvf.1358

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@Zelanard.5806 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Yeah, that would be just as fun as the people constantly doing "reply all" to all-office emails.

But if it could be turned off in chat, then sure.

I fail to see the relation, but I fully agree that people should be able to turn it off.

Its a form of unintentional spam on systems aren't designed to act as public forums. Chat rooms are an example of a public forum..... everyone participating knows the others exist, and can interact with them in a broadcast style of communication. But in a PM based system, individuals don't know about the existence of others, and now suddenly you're seeing responses to conversations you might not be a part of, now showing up in a PM system that is normally given higher notification priority over standard chat, and no longer has the benefit of being separated by one-to-one responses to dictate context.

Which begs the question as to why this should even be explored as a feature, when creating a new opt-in side channel that has all the benefits, but none of the problems. This is why Chat groups in Skype are a thing. This is why Guild chat is its own channel, and not part of the PM system.

And most importantly this..... this is why THIS story needs to be known by every Admin that even remotely touches a communication platform.

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/exchange/2004/04/08/me-too/

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Zelanard.5806

Zelanard.5806

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@starlinvf.1358 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Yeah, that would be just as fun as the people constantly doing "reply all" to all-office emails.

But if it could be turned off in chat, then sure.

I fail to see the relation, but I fully agree that people should be able to turn it off.

Its a form of unintentional spam on systems aren't designed to act as public forums. Chat rooms are an example of a public forum..... everyone participating knows the others exist, and can interact with them in a broadcast style of communication. But in a PM based system, individuals don't know about the existence of others, and now suddenly you're seeing responses to conversations you might not be a part of, now showing up in a PM system that is normally given higher notification priority over standard chat, and no longer has the benefit of being separated by one-to-one responses to dictate context.

Which begs the question as to why this should even be explored as a feature, when creating a new opt-in side channel that has all the benefits, but none of the problems. This is why Chat groups in Skype are a thing. This is why Guild chat is its own channel, and not part of the PM system.

And most importantly this..... this is why THIS story needs to be known by every Admin that even remotely touches a communication platform.

According to that logic, it is spam to write to people on my friendlist that "hey you wanna join me in this?"... No, that is not spam.

We're not talking about an ongoing conversation channel, we're talking about a broadcast to the friendlist to INITIATE contact.

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artemis.6781

artemis.6781

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@Zelanard.5806 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Yeah, that would be just as fun as the people constantly doing "reply all" to all-office emails.

But if it could be turned off in chat, then sure.

I fail to see the relation, but I fully agree that people should be able to turn it off.

Its a form of unintentional spam on systems aren't designed to act as public forums. Chat rooms are an example of a public forum..... everyone participating knows the others exist, and can interact with them in a broadcast style of communication. But in a PM based system, individuals don't know about the existence of others, and now suddenly you're seeing responses to conversations you might not be a part of, now showing up in a PM system that is normally given higher notification priority over standard chat, and no longer has the benefit of being separated by one-to-one responses to dictate context.

Which begs the question as to why this should even be explored as a feature, when creating a new opt-in side channel that has all the benefits, but none of the problems. This is why Chat groups in Skype are a thing. This is why Guild chat is its own channel, and not part of the PM system.

And most importantly this..... this is why THIS story needs to be known by every Admin that even remotely touches a communication platform.

According to that logic, it is spam to write to people on my friendlist that "hey you wanna join me in this?"... No, that is not spam.

We're not talking about an ongoing conversation channel, we're talking about a broadcast to the friendlist to INITIATE contact.

But the problem is that you can put people on your friends list without their consent. Therefore sending out a mass email to people on your friends list could be spam.

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Aerronix.9752

Aerronix.9752

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@"Zelanard.5806" said:Write /hi and everything that comes after, to every one on my friendlist.Write / hiall and everything comes after, to everyone on my friends and followers list.

In other mmos, this have made me able to stay in touch with people on my friend list. It would also be a great way to invite people to open world activities, such as jumping puzzles, HP trains or Event trains.I know, I know there's the LFG for that, but it would still be nice to be able to do it with people you've played with before, without having to write to a lot of people separately, or is that just me?

I don't see this occurring \ feature add as this would be spam and would violate the Rules of Conduct - https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/ item number 4:

"When communicating in Guild Wars 2 using global chat (including, without limitation, server wide chat and use of the whisper command), you may not spam, flood, or make duplicate posts. For more information, please see the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement."

As the intention of "Everything that comes after" is to hit everyone on a list.Sorry :(

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Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

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@Zelanard.5806 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Yeah, that would be just as fun as the people constantly doing "reply all" to all-office emails.

But if it could be turned off in chat, then sure.

I fail to see the relation, but I fully agree that people should be able to turn it off.I guess you never worked at a big company. Reply all is a thing there. Where I work this is no longer allowed to be used by employees because of all the pointless reply all spam we got and they finally got sick of it.

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Zelanard.5806

Zelanard.5806

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@Gehenna.3625 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Yeah, that would be just as fun as the people constantly doing "reply all" to all-office emails.

But if it could be turned off in chat, then sure.

I fail to see the relation, but I fully agree that people should be able to turn it off.I guess you never worked at a big company. Reply all is a thing there. Where I work this is no longer allowed to be used by employees because of all the pointless reply all spam we got and they finally got sick of it.

Yes it's a thing there. BUT IT'S NOT A PART OF THIS SUGGESTION. It's not a reply system and there would be no way to reply to all in the system, if someone try to reply, they would have to whisper one person... o.O

@artemis.6781 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:Yeah, that would be just as fun as the people constantly doing "reply all" to all-office emails.

But if it could be turned off in chat, then sure.

I fail to see the relation, but I fully agree that people should be able to turn it off.

Its a form of unintentional spam on systems aren't designed to act as public forums. Chat rooms are an example of a public forum..... everyone participating knows the others exist, and can interact with them in a broadcast style of communication. But in a PM based system, individuals don't know about the existence of others, and now suddenly you're seeing responses to conversations you might not be a part of, now showing up in a PM system that is normally given higher notification priority over standard chat, and no longer has the benefit of being separated by one-to-one responses to dictate context.

Which begs the question as to why this should even be explored as a feature, when creating a new opt-in side channel that has all the benefits, but none of the problems. This is why Chat groups in Skype are a thing. This is why Guild chat is its own channel, and not part of the PM system.

And most importantly this..... this is why THIS story needs to be known by every Admin that even remotely touches a communication platform.

According to that logic, it is spam to write to people on my friendlist that "hey you wanna join me in this?"... No, that is not spam.

We're not talking about an ongoing conversation channel, we're talking about a broadcast to the friendlist to INITIATE contact.

But the problem is that you can put people on your friends list without their consent. Therefore sending out a mass email to people on your friends list could be spam.

I fail to see the issue here... I mean, I can write to them whether they've set me on their friend list or not... That is no different than the whispers system. Also if they can block incoming messages of that type, WHY would it be a problem?So no, it is not spam, it is spam if someone repeatedly send the same message over and over again.

@Zelanard.5806 said:Write /hi and everything that comes after, to every one on my friendlist.Write / hiall and everything comes after, to everyone on my friends and followers list.

In other mmos, this have made me able to stay in touch with people on my friend list. It would also be a great way to invite people to open world activities, such as jumping puzzles, HP trains or Event trains.I know, I know there's the LFG for that, but it would still be nice to be able to do it with people you've played with before, without having to write to a lot of people separately, or is that just me?

I don't see this occurring \ feature add as this would be spam and would violate the Rules of Conduct -
item number 4:

"When communicating in Guild Wars 2 using global chat (including, without limitation, server wide chat and use of the whisper command), you may not spam, flood, or make duplicate posts. For more information, please see the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement."

As the intention of "Everything that comes after" is to hit everyone on a list.Sorry :(

The system, would not make duplicate posts, it would not flood and it would not make any of the other things you're talking about here... It would write once to a group of people... If that is spam, then so is any message written in any chat in the game.

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Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

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@Zelanard.5806 said:Yes it's a thing there. BUT IT'S NOT A PART OF THIS SUGGESTION. It's not a reply system and there would be no way to reply to all in the system, if someone try to reply, they would have to whisper one person... o.O

Well, the point was that there are similarities in both situations. It's not a 100% analogy but when you start spamming /hiall to a bunch of people who didn't ask for this, it's a similar effect as the reply to all situation. That's the relation. Clearly he wasn't saying that this was part of your suggestion, but it has to be mutable because a lot of people on friends lists may not want to get spammed by multiple people doing this /hiall to them when they are in the middle of something especially.

The thing is, you might like this option, but I'm not assuming all your friends like it too. And not just your friends of course but everybody's friends because it would be a game wide addition.

All in all I'm not a fan of this idea, but if they do it, then I hope it's muted by default.

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Zelanard.5806

Zelanard.5806

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@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:Yes it's a thing there. BUT IT'S NOT A PART OF THIS SUGGESTION. It's not a reply system and there would be no way to reply to all in the system, if someone try to reply, they would have to whisper one person... o.O

Well, the point was that there are similarities in both situations. It's not a 100% analogy but when you start spamming /hiall to a bunch of people who didn't ask for this, it's a similar effect as the reply to all situation. That's the relation. Clearly he wasn't saying that this was part of your suggestion, but it has to be mutable because a lot of people on friends lists may not want to get spammed by multiple people doing this /hiall to them when they are in the middle of something especially.

The thing is, you might like this option, but I'm not assuming all your friends like it too. And not just your friends of course but everybody's friends because it would be a game wide addition.

All in all I'm not a fan of this idea, but if they do it, then I hope it's muted by default.

I have a very different perspective right there: If the people on my friend list does not want me to contact them, then I need them to not be on my friend list.I also fully disagree that there can be any comparison between spam mail and greeting the room when you walk into it or inviting your friends, or the people who consider you a friend, to take part in an activity with you.

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Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

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I have a very different perspective right there: If the people on my friend list does not want me to contact them, then I need them to not be on my friend list.

There are other reasons to have people on your friend’s list than being actual friends. For example I have WvW commanders on my list, players who host Hero point runs in HoT and PoF, players who have advertised that they will port on certain jumping puzzles, and other players who do certain specific content or services. They don’t know me and besides that niche I don’t know them. I’m not going to want a group message going to them and they wouldn’t want a group message from me.

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Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

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@Zelanard.5806 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:Yes it's a thing there. BUT IT'S NOT A PART OF THIS SUGGESTION. It's not a reply system and there would be no way to reply to all in the system, if someone try to reply, they would have to whisper one person... o.O

Well, the point was that there are similarities in both situations. It's not a 100% analogy but when you start spamming /hiall to a bunch of people who didn't ask for this, it's a similar effect as the reply to all situation. That's the relation. Clearly he wasn't saying that this was part of your suggestion, but it has to be mutable because a lot of people on friends lists may not want to get spammed by multiple people doing this /hiall to them when they are in the middle of something especially.

The thing is, you might like this option, but I'm not assuming all your friends like it too. And not just your friends of course but everybody's friends because it would be a game wide addition.

All in all I'm not a fan of this idea, but if they do it, then I hope it's muted by default.

I have a very different perspective right there: If the people on my friend list does not want me to contact them, then I need them to not be on my friend list.I also fully disagree that there can be any comparison between spam mail and greeting the room when you walk into it or inviting your friends, or the people who consider you a friend, to take part in an activity with you.

Well, I think that you have some strange ideas. First of all, the friend list is not linked to a chat room so when you send a hi to all your friends at the same time and they all reply in chat individually, how are you going to manage that? So I think it's a terrible idea, because if 12 of your friends reply then you have to talk to 12 of them separately anyway. And what if they all type /hiall then everybody gets lots of /hialls from everybody. And that's where the comparison comes in with the reply to all because that's what will happen. You need to start thinking about what happens after such a feature is introduced, because if you have 20 friends online and they all reply with /hiall and they have different friends also on their lists it just goes on and on and everybody's spamming /hiall to each other and then it becomes a total mess.

Secondly, you should realise that not everybody wants to talk all the time even if you're friends. So if you are requiring everybody to reply every time you want it, in my view you are a poor friend because you're not considerate to them. People don't have to respond. I know if I just started a boss fight and am busy, I'm not going to reply till I'm done.

Overall, it makes more sense to use discord or teamspeak or whatever for that to be honest. But you really have to think about the moment after you send /hiall to your entire friend list and then get a lot of replies back at the same time and it just sort of creates all kinds of pointless chat traffic. That also goes against the server performance by the way as chat traffic is also data that is transferred between players. So no, when you think about the domino effect this can have and the amount of chat messages this will generate, we'd be better off without it.

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starlinvf.1358

starlinvf.1358

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@Gehenna.3625 said:

@Zelanard.5806 said:Yes it's a thing there. BUT IT'S NOT A PART OF THIS SUGGESTION. It's not a reply system and there would be no way to reply to all in the system, if someone try to reply, they would have to whisper one person... o.O

Well, the point was that there are similarities in both situations. It's not a 100% analogy but when you start spamming /hiall to a bunch of people who didn't ask for this, it's a similar effect as the reply to all situation. That's the relation. Clearly he wasn't saying that this was part of your suggestion, but it has to be mutable because a lot of people on friends lists may not want to get spammed by multiple people doing this /hiall to them when they are in the middle of something especially.

The thing is, you might like this option, but I'm not assuming all your friends like it too. And not just your friends of course but everybody's friends because it would be a game wide addition.

All in all I'm not a fan of this idea, but if they do it, then I hope it's muted by default.

I have a very different perspective right there: If the people on my friend list does not want me to contact them, then I need them to not be on my friend list.I also fully disagree that there can be any comparison between spam mail and greeting the room when you walk into it or inviting your friends, or the people who consider you a friend, to take part in an activity with you.

Well, I think that you have some strange ideas. First of all, the friend list is not linked to a chat room so when you send a hi to all your friends at the same time and they all reply in chat individually, how are you going to manage that? So I think it's a terrible idea, because if 12 of your friends reply then you have to talk to 12 of them separately anyway. And what if they all type /hiall then everybody gets lots of /hialls from everybody. And that's where the comparison comes in with the reply to all because that's what will happen. You need to start thinking about what happens after such a feature is introduced, because if you have 20 friends online and they all reply with /hiall and they have different friends also on their lists it just goes on and on and everybody's spamming /hiall to each other and then it becomes a total mess.

Secondly, you should realise that not everybody wants to talk all the time even if you're friends. So if you are requiring everybody to reply every time you want it, in my view you are a poor friend because you're not considerate to them. People don't have to respond. I know if I just started a boss fight and am busy, I'm not going to reply till I'm done.

Overall, it makes more sense to use discord or teamspeak or whatever for that to be honest. But you really have to think about the moment after you send /hiall to your entire friend list and then get a lot of replies back at the same time and it just sort of creates all kinds of pointless chat traffic. That also goes against the server performance by the way as chat traffic is also data that is transferred between players. So no, when you think about the domino effect this can have and the amount of chat messages this will generate, we'd be better off without it.

I think you just described a less automated version of the Facebook/Twitter notification storm.

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