So i heard discussions so is tempest viable for anything anymore?

Just curious since i don't have pof.

It's overblown. Tempest isn't the best as far as damage anymore, weaver is (on ele). You give up ferocity (Elements of rage) and +120 while in fire attunement as well as +7% damage while under swiftness (with an organized group it's easy).

Tempest has more survivability in WvW because you don't lock yourself out of attunements and also overloads break stun. On weaver you basically have twist of fate.

tl;dr viable? absolutely. Preferred by the top 1-5% of raiders/fractallers? no.

• SnowCrows: no tempest in their benchmarks, meaning high-performing raiders won't be choosing tempest
• Discretize: similarly, no tempest, meaning high-performing fractallers aren't choosing tempest
• MetaBattle: there are a number of high-scoring tempest builds
  • PvP: Nothing
  • Fractals: Staff and a Mightshare build (also an underwater build , but that applies to two instances only, so ..meh)
  • Open world: two strong builds
  • Raid: healer (although you'll get a lot of discussion about that)
  • WvW: midline auramancer

Snowcrows provides a Tempest Healing build: https://snowcrows.com/raids/elementalist/tempest/healing/It's a build that I've seen used a lot on Dhuum and sometimes even Matthias.

Other than this Healing build that is marginally useful at very specific encounters, Tempest isn't very good at the moment because Weaver is better at nearly everything else.

So is the question because healing is not up to par on tempest?

Aura-share tempest is my favorite support spec to play in smallscale WvW. It does fantastic healing and a decent spread of boons (mostly regen, vigor, and protection).

The auras themselves could use improvement. Only getting a 10% direct damage reduction for Frost Aura for example is pretty outdated nowadays. Something as simple as making it a 10% reduction for direct damage and condition damage would help immensely.

@Axl.8924 said:So is the question because healing is not up to par on tempest?

No actually the amount of healing on Tempest is greater than most of the competition. But what Tempest lacks is offensive buffs, things like spotter and spirits that Druids have.

TL;DR: Support Tempest is a good build to carry bad groups, but there's no reason to ever pick one (as either support or dps) in any semi-decent group.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Axl.8924" said:So is the question because healing is not up to par on tempest?

Yes!

And to fix that, they need to move aurashare to the tempest line, and improve buffs on auras on the other lines.This way you could be an offensive aurashare buffer (with fire and air), a defensive one (with water and earth) or a mix of those.

From here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/48446/the-trait-changes-the-elementalist-needs-more-synergy

Tempest Elite spec is about staying longer in attunements and overloading them for greater effects. It relies on caster centered AoEs and group support.

• New trait effective conduit replaces latent stamina: Using skills from an attunment reduces the recharge of its overload.
• tempestuous aria change buffs and conditions to be dependent on the shout (element) and include shout CD reduction.
• harmonious conduit change the buff according to the overload used (fire 5% dmg and condi dmg, air 10% crit dmg, earth -10% dmg and condi reduction, water 10% healing effectiveness)
• Elemental bastion moved to major master (replaces invigorating torrents) and remove frost aura on hit (becomes just auras apply heal)
• Hardy conduit move the improved protection to earth line, overloads provide protection and barrier
• powerful auras moved from water traitline and replaces major grandmaster elemental bastion

This gives the tempest the option to buff allies by sharing auras, improving shouts or being more selfish and focusing on its own overloads to complete them successfully and frequently. The reduced recharge on overloads could be a flat percentage but seems more interesting giving it a reduced recharge per skill use, making that weapons with faster casting times (scepter, dagger) can overload faster than slow ones (staff). The changes try to combine well with the options on each traitline and lets the tempest (by moving aura share from water) becomes a full offensive (fire/air/tempest) or defensive (water/earth/tempest) support or even a mix of those. Tempest can also focus on being more selfish and versatile by focusing on overloading more frequent and successfully at the cost of sharing auras and heals.

@"lLobo.7960" said:And to fix that, they need to move aurashare to the tempest line, and improve buffs on auras on the other lines.This way you could be an offensive aurashare buffer (with fire and air), a defensive one (with water and earth) or a mix of those.

I guess for PVP purposes this would be nice, but even with your changes Tempest lacks an offensive buff unless they make Harmonious Conduit apply to the group instead of only on the Elementalist.

I was wondering about something, Air Overload gives https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Static_Charge to the group, which provides extra damage (but is very weak). Could this be reworked to be a "proper" offensive damage buff for the group? just thinking out loud here.

Tempest has more survivability in WvW because you don't lock yourself out of attunements and also overloads break stun. On weaver you basically have twist of fate.

Overloading locks yourself OUT of attunements.For staff, core ele is more balanced and sustainable than tempest if you're looking to do DPS.Weaver is better high-end especially with group support for DPS.Tempest is the best at pure-support, except it's a lot worse than the other supports used in the gamemode (fb, chrono, scrapper)

I kick tempests from my zergs. I'm yet to find staff eles who can actually play who prefer tempest over either core ele or weaver.

Tempest is used by some roaming groups, but in zergs / group play it's pretty bad. And even in roaming, i'm pretty sure FB is just better.

@Etheri.5406 said:

Tempest has more survivability in WvW because you don't lock yourself out of attunements and also overloads break stun. On weaver you basically have twist of fate.

what build does core ele staff use

@bara yaoi.3824 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

Tempest has more survivability in WvW because you don't lock yourself out of attunements and also overloads break stun. On weaver you basically have twist of fate.

Fire / water / arcana is the only build worth running. It has better self-sustain than tempest with water/arcana synergy giving it good self heals, cleanse and mobility.Before you could go fire / air / arcana or fire / air / water too, but weaver is better than air if you're looking to push more DPS. So only the fire / water / arcana one is worth running, particularly if you don't have the support / cleanse you need to stay alive and do your job.

My idea was similar giving the boons from overloads longer up time and add some extra boon specific at each overload end(e.g fire overload quickness) and giving fire overload a 30% greater range + some push for the warhorn.(more might)

Besides this Ele is in a really bad shape not necessarily because its DPS sunk a lot but with each patch the rotation changed and keeping track of it is impossible I'm very sure 95-99% doing it wrong right now.(I'm not an exception) besides this the newest is just a nightmare again. Most of the problems came from constant tinkering on the glyph of storm and the change of alacrity to a boon.

About the glyph since the fire version is the one with more DPS now I don't know any working Tempest rotation besides ignoring the changes. Also it reduce the usefulness of the class because with the wind version also came vulnerability.

@Etheri.5406 said:

Tempest has more survivability in WvW because you don't lock yourself out of attunements and also overloads break stun. On weaver you basically have twist of fate.

To be fair, what you say about damage potential is only true in wvw where you'd be forced to stay at max range. If you can go in melee and can utilize the two offensive overloads, tempest will outdamage core ele. Of course, I can only see this work in pve.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

Tempest has more survivability in WvW because you don't lock yourself out of attunements and also overloads break stun. On weaver you basically have twist of fate.

Yeah the post i'm replying to particularly mentions WvW; i didn't restate it but i'm talking about WvW.

But for PvE the same reasoning goes : weaver is strictly better for high-end DPS. I guess for easymode DPS, FA tempest is still a thing. We found tempest's niche bois : easy to play for relatively high performance compared to other specs, great for openworld and low-end gameplay. Tempest = reaper confirmed?!

@Etheri.5406 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:

Tempest has more survivability in WvW because you don't lock yourself out of attunements and also overloads break stun. On weaver you basically have twist of fate.

Yeah, tempest is easier to play, especially FA. It also does have the best performance for open world and other solo content when compared to the rest of the ele specs. But that really isn't saying much, considering that ele in general is just not that good. Other classes have way better options.

So what kind of gear should i aim for then? full heal gear?

A combination of healing, vitality and boon duration would probably be optimal (although you can get very good boon uptime using just Sigil of Concentration and Rune of Leadership, so concentration may be optional).

Full minstrel tempest for wvw is fun. Dagger/focus and staff. Dagger water 2 needs a serious buff imo and needs to grant frost aura.

So do you think auras will be buffed? or is that problematic?

Who knows if anet will rework or buff auras. If they do, great. It's what's needed to keep support tempest relevant. Funny though, the average minstrel tempest usually is more effective than the average minstrel FB not due to class mechanics but due to player skill level. Average player on mini FB doesn't really know wtf they are doing. Positioning is absolute key for a mini FB to be effective at all. An average mini temp is usually a player who conscientiously chose a non meta spec and has the know how to apply it still. Meta is about numbers when the player is fully able to bring what that class can provide. How many people do you know that can do that? I can full rush a zerg going in with air overload right on them, lay down static field after, go in earth eat an ez burst, lay down earth 4 and earth 3, by the time my zerg's frontline comes in i have made enemy use stab from traits or skills, slowed their advance, shifted focus, and have repositioned back to midline with lightning flash in water to sustain the push. I haven't seen an average FB provide that kind of application yet. Just the same old "DURRR FB META DURRRR"

We have aura traits in 5 or 6 different lines. Please merge some of them and give aura share easier access to fury and might aoe without giving up must-have traits. Put prot on auras with elemental bastion please God.