How would you change Griffon Stance

I would like to see more use out of Griffon stance but as it stands I don't see it all in any of the game modes. If I were to make a suggestion it would be to change it to a gap closer (maybe something like 600-800 units?) and give it some damage on connect (something around the 800 ballpark), and its stance would grant something akin to hits inflicting immobi for 1 second or Slow. It would have its use in being a nice active damage utility (something that ranger lacks), a gap closer/mobility (something they are good at and would be good for pvp/wvw), and the stance effect would be a nice tool for defiance break bar/ pve.

Definitely a lot of similarity with GS#3 leap but its just an idea off the top of my head with regards to thinking how to maintain the tematics of griffon and also how to make it useful. Share your ideas!

breaks stuns

Ammo system: 2 charges. 20s recharge. 5s CD.Evades attacks and on succesful evade it refills endurance (amount differs depending on gamemode) . After activation it grants vigor.No animation, so you can evade mid animation of other skills.Cast instant.

Hover in the air and perma-evade like a true griffon.

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Hover in the air and perma-evade like a true griffon.

the meme potential is strong here

How about we add some kind of a Reveal in it or one of the stances that can actually reveal a thief and not be countered by Shadow Meld? Since Rangers are supposed to be hunters why can't we be the hard counter to thief that likes to stalk and kill without being seen?

My idea is...pick one of choice...

Griffon stance active . . .

1-No falling dmg on player,Falling dmg heal you.or2-Evade inc dmg 4sec gain endurance evey hit you evade.or3-Evade projectile 4sec Stance end gain swiffness 1sec per bullet has evade.or4-Gain vigor and destroy enemy endurance bar.or5-Consume 3condition and Your attack gain weakness ??sec( ??=number stack you consume).

After Griffon stance end1-you gain vigor.or2-you gain swiffness.or3-Your pet skill CD reset.or4-You gain endurance bar.or5-something useful...

Change it to Jackal Stance and give us portal

@oOStaticOo.9467 said:How about we add some kind of a Reveal in it or one of the stances that can actually reveal a thief and not be countered by Shadow Meld? Since Rangers are supposed to be hunters why can't we be the hard counter to thief that likes to stalk and kill without being seen?

It would make sense to put it in Griffon Stance and call it something like Eagle Eye or Eagle Sight.

The stance should be 4s evade (with trait would be 6s) meanwhile the ranger can attack. Plus the vigor.That would empower the soulbeast as melee fighter, right now it lacks the sustain to do it. Visually the effect could be like the one from distortion which the players are already familiar with (from mirage) and will recognise quickly.

Reveal should be in Warnhorn's hunters call as ranged AoE and sic'em as PbAoE (no target needed). If any of those skills reveal should gain reduced CD.

One wolf pack should do splash damage around the target.

Bear should have CD reduced to 20 secs, increased base duration to 6 seconds (9S traited). no need to nerf the heal it is a very situational extra heal. I don't think soulbeast needs more base healing in bear, but needs more sources of healing ticks.

Vulture stance instead might, should apply poison and bleeding. Additionally should steal health based in the number of conditions the target has.

Leader of the pack should apply full duration so the stances could become relevant in a party.

Aditionaly Soulbeast needs limited boon rip to be able to stand a chance against heavy boon meta.

loving the ideas these are awesome

@Silverkung.9127 said:My idea is...pick one of choice...

Griffon stance active . . .

1-No falling dmg on player,Falling dmg heal you.or2-Evade inc dmg 4sec gain endurance evey hit you evade.or3-Evade projectile 4sec Stance end gain swiffness 1sec per bullet has evade.or4-Gain vigor and destroy enemy endurance bar.or5-Consume 3condition and Your attack gain weakness ??sec( ??=number stack you consume).

After Griffon stance end1-you gain vigor.or2-you gain swiffness.or3-Your pet skill CD reset.or4-You gain endurance bar.or5-something useful...

Love 2 with vigor after

@anduriell.6280 said:The stance should be 4s evade (with trait would be 6s) meanwhile the ranger can attack. Plus the vigor.That would empower the soulbeast as melee fighter, right now it lacks the sustain to do it. Visually the effect could be like the one from distortion which the players are already familiar with (from mirage) and will recognise quickly.

Reveal should be in Warnhorn's hunters call as ranged AoE and sic'em as PbAoE (no target needed). If any of those skills reveal should gain reduced CD.

One wolf pack should do splash damage around the target.

Bear should have CD reduced to 20 secs, increased base duration to 6 seconds (9S traited). no need to nerf the heal it is a very situational extra heal. I don't think soulbeast needs more base healing in bear, but needs more sources of healing ticks.

Vulture stance instead might, should apply poison and bleeding. Additionally should steal health based in the number of conditions the target has.

Leader of the pack should apply full duration so the stances could become relevant in a party.

Aditionaly Soulbeast needs limited boon rip to be able to stand a chance against heavy boon meta.

4 sec auto evade while attacking sounds a bit insane. I dont think it'd be a wise idea, it'd go the mirage route where people start screeching about it being OP. Maybe if it could be triggered by something, so it could be countered.

Like a throwaway idea if you're stunned and activate griffon stance then it evades incomming attacks. If you activate it outside of stun it grants endurance and vigor.

@ChartFish.1308 said:

4 sec auto evade while attacking sounds a bit insane. I dont think it'd be a wise idea, it'd go the mirage route where people start screeching about it being OP. Maybe if it could be triggered by something, so it could be countered.

Like a throwaway idea if you're stunned and activate griffon stance then it evades incomming attacks. If you activate it outside of stun it grants endurance and vigor.Actually 6 seconds traited. Once every 45 seconds.It has the CD of an elite skill stances don't have a trait to reduce cooldown.Not very different from a warrior playing double endure pain with 10 seconds total immunity (when traited in wvw) while being able to attack and passive gain stability + stunbreak. And resistance from signet is around 6 secs.Ele and mirage has also massive access to immunes.

As i said if soulbeast should to be played as melee contender needs that kind of defense (and more). Unflinching fortitude(3s) or stone signet(3s) can't compete against other classes.

@anduriell.6280 said:Actually 6 seconds traited. Once every 45 seconds.It has the CD of an elite skill stances don't have a trait to reduce cooldown.Not very different from a warrior playing double endure pain with 10 seconds total immunity (when traited in wvw) while being able to attack and passive gain stability + stunbreak. And resistance from signet is around 6 secs.Ele and mirage has also massive access to immunes.

As i said if soulbeast should to be played as melee contender needs that kind of defense (and more). Unflinching fortitude(3s) or stone signet(3s) can't compete against other classes.

The thing is endure pain or stone signet, while granting immunity to power attacks, doesnt grant immunity to being attacked. If you evade everything then theres virtually nothing that can touch you unless it was applied pre-duration. That's the big thing. A warrior hit with dagger auto might not take any power damage, but the conditions will still apply. Any pull or cc could still be applied. If this was a thing, then for up to 6 seconds nothing could touch you.

Mind you mirage cloak only lasts about 1/2 seconds and it's largely the same type of invulnerability.

I don't think Griffon Stance should grant immunity, and if it did then something like AoE immunity would be more reasonable.

As far as what I'd like to see it be...first and foremost the might generation needs to be removed for the skill to have proper potential. There is no need for this and it has very little impact unless someone is spam-attacking you while you are Smokescale evading. Bad synergy with the skill that holds it back.Otherwise, playing on evades and dodges is a good niche for it. It competes too much in identity with Lightning Reflexes and needs to be differentiated enough to not only be worth taking on its own, but also in tandem with LR without there being overlap like there currently is. This could be done by granting something like dodge endurance cost reduction or dodge frame duration increase. At this point it's a terrible value skill and needs to see significant buffs.

Griffon Stance (30s cooldown)

Refill endurance and gain superspeed when you evade an attack.

• Duration: 4s
• Superspeed (3 sec): Movement speed is greatly increased.
• Endurance Gain: 50
• Breaks Stun

  ---

This turns Griffon Stance into a survival utility for disengage, hopefully allowing us to perform better in outnumbered situations.

On another note, I think Leader of the Pack should be changed as well. The changes I propose will slightly lower Stance effectiveness on ourselves, while increasing the effectiveness on our allies.

Leader of the Pack

Stance skills gain reduced recharge and grant their effects to nearby allies.

• Number of Allied Targets: 5
• Personal Duration: 100%
• Allied Duration: 100%
• Radius: 400
• Recharge Reduced: 20%

Since griffon is a mix of lion and eagle, I'd suggest these:Griffin stance duration: 6secsLion's might=> Grant 4stack of might 6sec duration every second for whole duration of stanceEagle eye => Grant +100 precision for duration of stance40sec Recharge time1.5sec cast time

Lion's might won't get boon duration bonus from moa or concentration...

@"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:Since griffon is a mix of lion and eagle, I'd suggest these:Griffin stance duration: 6secsLion's might=> Grant 4stack of might 6sec duration every second for whole duration of stanceEagle eye => Grant +100 precision for duration of stance40sec Recharge time1.5sec cast time

Lion's might won't get boon duration bonus from moa or concentration...

No offense, but your suggestion is extremely underwhelming.

1. Stances are generally instant cast. Your proposed cast time is the same as Spiritual Reprieve.
2. The might will scale as follows: 4, 8, 16, 20, 24, 25, 21, 17, 13, 9, 5, 0 over the course of 12 seconds. Not only is this effect very weak (as might is easy to generate), but your proposed durations are very short and it encourages hitting for a single big attack once you hit 25 stacks of might before it quickly winds down into nothing.
3. 100 precision is roughly equivalent to an additional 5% critical chance (that only lasts 6 seconds). Again, a very weak effect that will realistically have no impact on a fight.
4. 40 second cooldown coupled with low-impact effects and an extraordinarily long cast time would make Griffon Stance significantly worse than it already is.
5. You even put a restriction on the might so that it doesn't get affected by the boon duration from Moa Stance or Sigil of Concentration...

Sorry, but your idea appears very poorly thought out. I would take the current iteration over this in a heartbeat.

Griffon Stance - Stunbreaker. Gain 100 Endurance and superspeed. While active, Endurance gain is increased by 100% (or whatever the solution to make for unlimited Endurance). Stance and Superspeed, 2 second effect. 30 second cooldown.

At the end of the day this would just be a worse version of Elixir S in some ways, but it'd be shareable so....

I would rework it completely. Ranger does not need more endurance, we already have multiple ways to get vigor or increase endurance regen.I would make Griffon Stance the first ranger stance with an ammo system.I would also change it to grant resistance with duration increasing per ally in a certain radius. This would make it stronger in a group setting while not being op in 1 ON 1 settings.Base duration 1s with max bonus of 5s when within certain radius of 5 allies.Max ammo system charges and recharge timing would need to be adjusted for balance.It would also be an AOE reveal as others have suggested. We need more counter play against stealth in this game.

@GUFF.5692 said:I would rework it completely. Ranger does not need more endurance, we already have multiple ways to get vigor or increase endurance regen.I would make Griffon Stance the first ranger stance with an ammo system.I would also change it to grant resistance with duration increasing per ally in a certain radius. This would make it stronger in a group setting while not being op in 1 ON 1 settings.Base duration 1s with max bonus of 5s when within certain radius of 5 allies.Max ammo system charges and recharge timing would need to be adjusted for balance.It would also be an AOE reveal as others have suggested. We need more counter play against stealth in this game.

The problem with 1s of resistance when you're alone is that it's too weak to actually be useful (only negates a single tick of condi).

It needs to have a 4 second duration base on a 30 second cooldown to be on par with Featherfoot Grace. To balance it with 2 charges, it can't be a stunbreak. Extending the duration of the resistance by 1 second per ally (max 5 allies) is also too strong. This would result in 18 seconds of resistance every 30 seconds from 1 ranger alone. Instead, extending the duration by .5 seconds per ally would be a better alternative. So, instead of 9 seconds per charge and 18 seconds for both, it would be 6.5 seconds per charge and 13 seconds for both when you're near 5 allies.

@GUFF.5692 said:I would rework it completely. Ranger does not need more endurance, we already have multiple ways to get vigor or increase endurance regen.I would make Griffon Stance the first ranger stance with an ammo system.I would also change it to grant resistance with duration increasing per ally in a certain radius. This would make it stronger in a group setting while not being op in 1 ON 1 settings.Base duration 1s with max bonus of 5s when within certain radius of 5 allies.Max ammo system charges and recharge timing would need to be adjusted for balance.It would also be an AOE reveal as others have suggested. We need more counter play against stealth in this game.

My guess is that since they have named it Griffon Stance and already have the animation created, it will need to stay themed accordingly, and I don't really see those fitting the skill much. I would be more than happy to continue to have its mechanic centered around endurance/evasion. Yes, we have a lot of options to increase our evasiveness as rangers, but I don't think we have too many. My problem is that, unless it has changed without my knowledge, the endurance regeneration does not stack with Vigor. The skill itself should be able to be fully benefited from regardless of Vigor uptime, which is why I have believe a dodge reduction cost would be the best choice for still keeping close to the same thematic purpose that it currently fulfills.

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:Since griffon is a mix of lion and eagle, I'd suggest these:Griffin stance duration: 6secsLion's might=> Grant 4stack of might 6sec duration every second for whole duration of stanceEagle eye => Grant +100 precision for duration of stance40sec Recharge time1.5sec cast time

Lion's might won't get boon duration bonus from moa or concentration...

2. The might will scale as follows: 4, 8, 16, 20, 24, 25, 21, 17, 13, 9, 5, 0 over the course of 12 seconds. Not only is this effect very weak (as might is easy to generate), but your proposed durations are very short and it encourages hitting for a single big attack once you hit 25 stacks of might before it quickly winds down into nothing.
3. 100 precision is roughly equivalent to an additional 5% critical chance (that only lasts 6 seconds). Again, a very weak effect that will realistically have no impact on a fight.

The only skill that can generate stable 24 stacks might is strength of pack but that's an elite skill with 75sec cooldown 60 when traited...Other hard ways are to use diviner amulet with moa stance in conjunction with these:sigil of courage -> can get max 5 stacksCoW -> 6stacks for 10 secsRicochet -> too much time to build up might and at max I could generate not more than 15 stacks but who AA forever just to generate might in pvpPreci swipe -> one stack might on last chain mehhhhhPotent Ally -> works only when crit strike... But resounding timbre is so good to pass out for potent ally... So mehhhhConsume plasma -> in middle of battle??? Meehhhh ... Opponent snatches away my plasma most of the time. Coz they got more hard CC's than me...

But when equipping for quick burst build, either zerk, Marauder,... Boon duration is.... Idk unreliable.... My point is, stable might generator for 6secs... 24 stacks should stay for 6secs...

Eagle eye(this is not spotter's eye)-> that's +100 precision every second for entire duration.... So you get whopping extra 28.5% crit chance at the peak 6th second... Skirmishing grand Master trait vicious quarry is the only other thing capable of giving you that during fury...

And this stance if used in conjunction with OWP, could wipe out mid easily with LB 5 alone.... I hope so... ;)

The fact that I wished it shouldn't get boon duration bonus from moa or concentration is, people already bickering about moa stance and boon uptime... So....that....

And also remember, it's a stance... So leader of pack will share it with allies for 3 secs... So... Anything higher than this , ppl will demand a Nerf... I think...

Cast time 1.5 secs.... It can be made insta cast, but then again, SotP is powerful skill yet it has 1 sec cast time... And this griffon stance merges attributes of two animals(lion and eagle) so ranger body needs some time to adapt to stance ;) :p

Recharge time-> we can reduce it to 30secs but ... Idk... Might sound OP... Coz DPS skills should have long recharge time else, gameplay won't be fun for others

If you think this is underwhelming, idk... I ran out of ideas.... :/

@Crystal Paladin.3871

A Soulbeast can keep perma 25 stacks of might by using a traited WH5 with Sigil of Battle and merging with boon duration.

And yes, those effects are still underwhelming. A ramping 5% crit chance for 6 seconds and ramping 4 stacks of might with OWP + barrage would never wipe mid. I don't even feel like I need to explain why.

Anyways, I already detailed why your suggestion is worse than the current iteration. I won't repeat myself.