Climbing out of gold is impossible, Change my mind — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Climbing out of gold is impossible, Change my mind

Okay so here I am, stuck in gold since like 200 games and I came to the conclusion that it is impossible to climb out of it if you don't get placed in platin in the first place or win 10 times in a row (which is pretty much impossible). People are just to braindead in gold, necros who go far instead of fighting with their fb, people who run into a 3-1 in mid instead of waiting for the team and so on I'm sure you saw these people as well. I rarely get close games, it's either you won the dice roll and the enemy team has the idiot or you lost it and you loose 500-200.

So my statement stands, try to change my mind.

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Comments

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭

    i play ranked with a jalis/glint bunker cc build and im in platin now
    https://imgur.com/a/3AtvLq3

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay so here I am, stuck in gold since like 200 games and I came to the conclusion that it is impossible to climb out of it if you don't get placed in platin in the first place or win 10 times in a row (which is pretty much impossible). People are just to braindead in gold, necros who go far instead of fighting with their fb, people who run into a 3-1 in mid instead of waiting for the team and so on I'm sure you saw these people as well. I rarely get close games, it's either you won the dice roll and the enemy team has the idiot or you lost it and you loose 500-200.

    So my statement stands, try to change my mind.

    In my experience, 8 out of 10 games are pre-determined wins/losses. No matter what you do, you will have little impact on the outcome of these games. There is usually 1-2 games out of 10 where you can carry, if you are skilled enough. Theoretically, to go P1 or above you should be able to maintain a win rate between 55-60%; in other words, you will have to be able to sway the outcome of some games.

    I do not mean this in a wrong way, considering how many games you played, maybe you are in gold cuz that is as far as your skill can take you.

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭

    For you, maybe. You need to actually be a better player to move out of gold. The rating ranges for gold are slightly above average, and include a large amount of the population (bell curve centered on 1200 rating). Platinum is something like top 10%.

  • @otto.5684 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay so here I am, stuck in gold since like 200 games and I came to the conclusion that it is impossible to climb out of it if you don't get placed in platin in the first place or win 10 times in a row (which is pretty much impossible). People are just to braindead in gold, necros who go far instead of fighting with their fb, people who run into a 3-1 in mid instead of waiting for the team and so on I'm sure you saw these people as well. I rarely get close games, it's either you won the dice roll and the enemy team has the idiot or you lost it and you loose 500-200.

    So my statement stands, try to change my mind.

    In my experience, 8 out of 10 games are pre-determined wins/losses. No matter what you do, you will have little impact on the outcome of these games. There is usually 1-2 games out of 10 where you can carry, if you are skilled enough. Theoretically, to go P1 or above you should be able to maintain a win rate between 55-60%; in other words, you will have to be able to sway the outcome of some games.

    I do not mean this in a wrong way, considering how many games you played, maybe you are in gold cuz that is as far as your skill can take you.

    Well it's kinda as you said except, and don't get me wrong, I know that you don't try to flame me (or is it bm in this game?) but I just feel like my skill doesn't matter. I can tryhard as much as I want (thief) but even if I get close to plat (I was one game away from it) I get a 5 game loosing streak...

  • @Exedore.6320 said:
    For you, maybe. You need to actually be a better player to move out of gold. The rating ranges for gold are slightly above average, and include a large amount of the population (bell curve centered on 1200 rating). Platinum is something like top 10%.

    Yeah I know that but I feel like it doesn' matter if I'm the better player. I can't carry the player in gold. Like how do you save a game with a fb + scourge on your team who loses a 2v2?

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2018

    @Derenaya.3479 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay so here I am, stuck in gold since like 200 games and I came to the conclusion that it is impossible to climb out of it if you don't get placed in platin in the first place or win 10 times in a row (which is pretty much impossible). People are just to braindead in gold, necros who go far instead of fighting with their fb, people who run into a 3-1 in mid instead of waiting for the team and so on I'm sure you saw these people as well. I rarely get close games, it's either you won the dice roll and the enemy team has the idiot or you lost it and you loose 500-200.

    So my statement stands, try to change my mind.

    In my experience, 8 out of 10 games are pre-determined wins/losses. No matter what you do, you will have little impact on the outcome of these games. There is usually 1-2 games out of 10 where you can carry, if you are skilled enough. Theoretically, to go P1 or above you should be able to maintain a win rate between 55-60%; in other words, you will have to be able to sway the outcome of some games.

    I do not mean this in a wrong way, considering how many games you played, maybe you are in gold cuz that is as far as your skill can take you.

    Well it's kinda as you said except, and don't get me wrong, I know that you don't try to flame me (or is it bm in this game?) but I just feel like my skill doesn't matter. I can tryhard as much as I want (thief) but even if I get close to plat (I was one game away from it) I get a 5 game loosing streak...

    I think it is harder to control games as thief, rev and/or mesmer, then lets say Holo or SB. You are more likely to be at the mercy of RNG :/

  • @otto.5684 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay so here I am, stuck in gold since like 200 games and I came to the conclusion that it is impossible to climb out of it if you don't get placed in platin in the first place or win 10 times in a row (which is pretty much impossible). People are just to braindead in gold, necros who go far instead of fighting with their fb, people who run into a 3-1 in mid instead of waiting for the team and so on I'm sure you saw these people as well. I rarely get close games, it's either you won the dice roll and the enemy team has the idiot or you lost it and you loose 500-200.

    So my statement stands, try to change my mind.

    In my experience, 8 out of 10 games are pre-determined wins/losses. No matter what you do, you will have little impact on the outcome of these games. There is usually 1-2 games out of 10 where you can carry, if you are skilled enough. Theoretically, to go P1 or above you should be able to maintain a win rate between 55-60%; in other words, you will have to be able to sway the outcome of some games.

    I do not mean this in a wrong way, considering how many games you played, maybe you are in gold cuz that is as far as your skill can take you.

    Well it's kinda as you said except, and don't get me wrong, I know that you don't try to flame me (or is it bm in this game?) but I just feel like my skill doesn't matter. I can tryhard as much as I want (thief) but even if I get close to plat (I was one game away from it) I get a 5 game loosing streak...

    I think it is harder to control games as thief, rev and/or mesmer, then lets say Holo or SB. You are more likely to be at the mercy of RNG :/

    Hm yeah that‘s pretty much how feel, if my team‘s kitten I can‘t +1 or decap. But when I look at how long it took Jawgeous to get out of plat 1 I fear that I‘ll never get out of gold.

  • @Arkantos.7460 said:
    i play ranked with a jalis/glint bunker cc build and im in platin now
    https://imgur.com/a/3AtvLq3

    Yeah congratz :D That‘s the winning streak I was talking about in the first post. I mean I get them aswell from time to time but I doesn‘t really help if a loosing streak follows after it.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I usually climb to P2 until i get a losing streak on the last week/day. But I don't care, I have great matches overall, no afk, very few dc, and I feel Q time is shorter in Gold, anyway.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    I just feel like my skill doesn't matter. I can tryhard as much as I want (thief)

    There's your answer, right in your own post.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    I just feel like my skill doesn't matter. I can tryhard as much as I want (thief)

    There's your answer, right in your own post.

    With the ,,I just feel like my skill doesn‘t matter.‘‘ I meant that I can‘t carry my team because they‘re just to stupid for the game. I know that sounds incredibly arrogant but just go and play in gold, you see thing you won‘t be able to forget.

  • Came back to the game last week and placed gold 3. Went something like 12-4 after that soloQ’ing and climbed to plat easily. Think you’re just describing an xp/build issue. I found that when I tried to support my team, it was 90% of the time lackluster and I had to take a more aggressive build to “carry” any potential liabilities to victory. This from a power reaper/rev perspective.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2018

    it is possible, I am going up and down between gold 3 and platin 2 all the time this season and I am not a really good pvp player
    last week I was just one win away from top 250 twice. But it never felt like my contribution do much about the outcome of the game. Matchmaking in this game is mostly luck

  • syszery.1592syszery.1592 Member ✭✭✭

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Well it's kinda as you said except, and don't get me wrong, I know that you don't try to flame me (or is it bm in this game?) but I just feel like my skill doesn't matter. I can tryhard as much as I want (thief) but even if I get close to plat (I was one game away from it) I get a 5 game loosing streak...

    The problem is that one sometimes need to find the correct point to stop and try again the next day. I know it sounds funny, but for me some days are just better in terms of team mates/compositions than others...

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    I kinda get your frustration.
    This season im playing weaver exclusively (and not even the boring mender/bunker variant) and im comfortably in plat 1.

    But - and this is were I kinda agree with you - I duoQ a lot with a friend of mine that is currently in gold 2 and the things I have seen are mind boggling tbh.
    At times it doesnt feel like I have any impact on the game whatsoever (winning 1v2s 'n whatnot). Damage is just so out of wack, that you can't rely on your team winning against certain specs even when they 3v1 or 3v2 it.

    This obviously is an experience issue, so Im not really mad at gold teammates (even tho I get salty at times) but the fact that stuff like core guard or reaper (but not exclusively those) can literally delete multiple unaware players at once, but it really doesn't help with the feeling of helplessness at times.

  • Abazigal.3679Abazigal.3679 Member ✭✭✭

    @syszery.1592 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Well it's kinda as you said except, and don't get me wrong, I know that you don't try to flame me (or is it bm in this game?) but I just feel like my skill doesn't matter. I can tryhard as much as I want (thief) but even if I get close to plat (I was one game away from it) I get a 5 game loosing streak...

    The problem is that one sometimes need to find the correct point to stop and try again the next day. I know it sounds funny, but for me some days are just better in terms of team mates/compositions than others...

    If we start on this assumption, we will all agree that this is totally random, though it's not entirely the case.

    From my experience in all divisions ( except legendary), bronze silver and platinum are more likely balanced in terms of players level. Clearly, most of platinum players have a minimum knowledge. Also, i'd say that anyone that deserves platinum level should be able to easily carry most games in bronze/silver.

    However PoF builds did change things a bit, and i am convinced that some builds ( cough mirage or scourge) are a bit too efficient at very low level, leading to absurd situations in gold division. I just had a game where our scourge kept going mid alone and kept dying there ( over 10 times probably). But can you really blame him, since he probably did climb doing it in lower divisions ?

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    i play a lot with guildies which give me -30 losses sometimes but i've always managed to get back to p1/p2 when playing solo
    i play ranger, mes, rev and nec mainly, and i dont switch before game although i highly recommend filling up a missing role in your team

    maybe map awareness is more important for you as a thief, because it fills many important roles (+1, decapping, stalling)
    200 games isn't a lot btw it took me a lot longer to get first time in plat, i got 2k games right now and can ride to plat almost on demand

    some of your observations:
    -how do you save a game when fb + scourge loses 2v2? --> this is not suprising to me as not only most firebrands are bad in gold, support is quite useless in gold because teammates die anyway no matter how good the support is. I'd rather make it a 3v2 and may you be the killer.
    -people who take 1v3s at mid --> very common yes, but as a thief you have the mobility to reverse snowballing during the game by luring multiple enemies away so that your team recovers

    you'll get there eventually, and when you do you will probably drop numerous times back to gold again
    keep up the good work

  • Derenaya.3479Derenaya.3479 Member ✭✭
    edited December 31, 2018

    @Koen.1327 said:
    i play a lot with guildies which give me -30 losses sometimes but i've always managed to get back to p1/p2 when playing solo
    i play ranger, mes, rev and nec mainly, and i dont switch before game although i highly recommend filling up a missing role in your team

    maybe map awareness is more important for you as a thief, because it fills many important roles (+1, decapping, stalling)
    200 games isn't a lot btw it took me a lot longer to get first time in plat, i got 2k games right now and can ride to plat almost on demand

    some of your observations:
    -how do you save a game when fb + scourge loses 2v2? --> this is not suprising to me as not only most firebrands are bad in gold, support is quite useless in gold because teammates die anyway no matter how good the support is. I'd rather make it a 3v2 and may you be the killer.
    -people who take 1v3s at mid --> very common yes, but as a thief you have the mobility to reverse snowballing during the game by luring multiple enemies away so that your team recovers

    you'll get there eventually, and when you do you will probably drop numerous times back to gold again
    keep up the good work

    Okay thank you for your answer, I guess my problem is that I just expect to much progress in a short time. I‘ll keep trying to rank up then.

    @syszery.1592 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Well it's kinda as you said except, and don't get me wrong, I know that you don't try to flame me (or is it bm in this game?) but I just feel like my skill doesn't matter. I can tryhard as much as I want (thief) but even if I get close to plat (I was one game away from it) I get a 5 game loosing streak...

    The problem is that one sometimes need to find the correct point to stop and try again the next day. I know it sounds funny, but for me some days are just better in terms of team mates/compositions than others...

    Yeah I know what you mean. If I don‘t have holidays I normaly stop after two looses in a row but since I have a lot of time atm I often just try to get my rank to where it was before which sometimes work and sometimes gets worse.

  • I typically climb from Silver 3 to Platinum 2 all by solo queue when I play my main (Guardian) an entire season. So, yes it is possible.

  • Okay I guess my statement was clearly refuted and I'll just try to rank up anyway. So I'd be interessted in your opinion on what would be the best class to carry?

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay I guess my statement was clearly refuted and I'll just try to rank up anyway. So I'd be interessted in your opinion on what would be the best class to carry?

    Boonbeast, Holo, Mirage, the least team-reliant professions are good for that.
    However, it remains a golden rule that if you wanna carry you have to babysit your team, so FB or Scourge as well.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay so here I am, stuck in gold since like 200 games and I came to the conclusion that it is impossible to climb out of it if you don't get placed in platin in the first place or win 10 times in a row (which is pretty much impossible). People are just to braindead in gold, necros who go far instead of fighting with their fb, people who run into a 3-1 in mid instead of waiting for the team and so on I'm sure you saw these people as well. I rarely get close games, it's either you won the dice roll and the enemy team has the idiot or you lost it and you loose 500-200.

    So my statement stands, try to change my mind.

    learn how to farm necros and you ll be at plat in no time or at least that what i did

  • Sampson.2403Sampson.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay I guess my statement was clearly refuted and I'll just try to rank up anyway. So I'd be interessted in your opinion on what would be the best class to carry?

    If you're in gold, the only players that you're going to carry are bronze & silvers. The better question that you should be asking yourself is what role do I want to fill on my team, and how can I get better at it?

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2018

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay so here I am, stuck in gold since like 200 games and I came to the conclusion that it is impossible to climb out of it if you don't get placed in platin in the first place or win 10 times in a row (which is pretty much impossible). People are just to braindead in gold, necros who go far instead of fighting with their fb, people who run into a 3-1 in mid instead of waiting for the team and so on I'm sure you saw these people as well. I rarely get close games, it's either you won the dice roll and the enemy team has the idiot or you lost it and you loose 500-200.

    So my statement stands, try to change my mind.

    Its quite possible. I do it all the time when I'm experimenting. There are a few variables that make it possible:

    • How viable your build is
    • How knowledgeable you are of the build and class you are playing
    • And a bit of luck with getting teammates who want to coordinate
  • everyman.4375everyman.4375 Member ✭✭✭

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay I guess my statement was clearly refuted and I'll just try to rank up anyway. So I'd be interessted in your opinion on what would be the best class to carry?

    Thief or revenant.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay I guess my statement was clearly refuted and I'll just try to rank up anyway. So I'd be interessted in your opinion on what would be the best class to carry?

    Thief or revenant.

    Both Thief and Revenant are the most team dependant profession, extremely bad for solo-carry.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • everyman.4375everyman.4375 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay I guess my statement was clearly refuted and I'll just try to rank up anyway. So I'd be interessted in your opinion on what would be the best class to carry?

    Thief or revenant.

    Both Thief and Revenant are the most team dependant profession, extremely bad for solo-carry.

    Thieves and revenants can have the most impact on a game.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay I guess my statement was clearly refuted and I'll just try to rank up anyway. So I'd be interessted in your opinion on what would be the best class to carry?

    Thief or revenant.

    Both Thief and Revenant are the most team dependant profession, extremely bad for solo-carry.

    Thieves and revenants can have the most impact on a game.

    Only when their Team is already doing well enough to allow them to have an impact.
    Thief nor Revenant can never single handedly carry a match unlike Boonbeast, good Holo or FBs

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • everyman.4375everyman.4375 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay I guess my statement was clearly refuted and I'll just try to rank up anyway. So I'd be interessted in your opinion on what would be the best class to carry?

    Thief or revenant.

    Both Thief and Revenant are the most team dependant profession, extremely bad for solo-carry.

    Thieves and revenants can have the most impact on a game.

    Only when their Team is already doing well enough to allow them to have an impact.
    Thief nor Revenant can never single handedly carry a match unlike Boonbeast, good Holo or FBs

    Boonbeast and holo are duellists wich mean they will likely only impact one node (well not just one but you get the idea) while thieves and revenants will impact every nodes.

  • Kumouta.4985Kumouta.4985 Member ✭✭✭

    i mamaged to climb to p1 eventually so clearly it isn't completely impossible

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay I guess my statement was clearly refuted and I'll just try to rank up anyway. So I'd be interessted in your opinion on what would be the best class to carry?

    Thief or revenant.

    Both Thief and Revenant are the most team dependant profession, extremely bad for solo-carry.

    Thieves and revenants can have the most impact on a game.

    Only when their Team is already doing well enough to allow them to have an impact.
    Thief nor Revenant can never single handedly carry a match unlike Boonbeast, good Holo or FBs

    Boonbeast and holo are duellists wich mean they will likely only impact one node (well not just one but you get the idea) while thieves and revenants will impact every nodes.

    That's exactly why Thieves and Revenants can't solo carry. Their team needs to be already doing well in order for them to be able to rotate, Boonbeast can easily 1v2, hell even stall 1v3s if enemy is dumb, which is exactly whats needed if your team is not good and can't even do even team fights.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • everyman.4375everyman.4375 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay I guess my statement was clearly refuted and I'll just try to rank up anyway. So I'd be interessted in your opinion on what would be the best class to carry?

    Thief or revenant.

    Both Thief and Revenant are the most team dependant profession, extremely bad for solo-carry.

    Thieves and revenants can have the most impact on a game.

    Only when their Team is already doing well enough to allow them to have an impact.
    Thief nor Revenant can never single handedly carry a match unlike Boonbeast, good Holo or FBs

    Boonbeast and holo are duellists wich mean they will likely only impact one node (well not just one but you get the idea) while thieves and revenants will impact every nodes.

    That's exactly why Thieves and Revenants can't solo carry. Their team needs to be already doing well in order for them to be able to rotate, Boonbeast can easily 1v2, hell even stall 1v3s if enemy is dumb, which is exactly whats needed if your team is not good and can't even do even team fights.

    With that logic ele is the best carry in the game.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay I guess my statement was clearly refuted and I'll just try to rank up anyway. So I'd be interessted in your opinion on what would be the best class to carry?

    Thief or revenant.

    Both Thief and Revenant are the most team dependant profession, extremely bad for solo-carry.

    Thieves and revenants can have the most impact on a game.

    Only when their Team is already doing well enough to allow them to have an impact.
    Thief nor Revenant can never single handedly carry a match unlike Boonbeast, good Holo or FBs

    Boonbeast and holo are duellists wich mean they will likely only impact one node (well not just one but you get the idea) while thieves and revenants will impact every nodes.

    That's exactly why Thieves and Revenants can't solo carry. Their team needs to be already doing well in order for them to be able to rotate, Boonbeast can easily 1v2, hell even stall 1v3s if enemy is dumb, which is exactly whats needed if your team is not good and can't even do even team fights.

    With that logic ele is the best carry in the game.

    What the last time you've seen ele kill two people and in an instant rotate and instagib someone else.
    Don't confuse stalling 1v2 on Neutral node with winning 1v2 on your team nodes and then instagibing someone else somewhere else.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • everyman.4375everyman.4375 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Derenaya.3479 said:
    Okay I guess my statement was clearly refuted and I'll just try to rank up anyway. So I'd be interessted in your opinion on what would be the best class to carry?

    Thief or revenant.

    Both Thief and Revenant are the most team dependant profession, extremely bad for solo-carry.

    Thieves and revenants can have the most impact on a game.

    Only when their Team is already doing well enough to allow them to have an impact.
    Thief nor Revenant can never single handedly carry a match unlike Boonbeast, good Holo or FBs

    Boonbeast and holo are duellists wich mean they will likely only impact one node (well not just one but you get the idea) while thieves and revenants will impact every nodes.

    That's exactly why Thieves and Revenants can't solo carry. Their team needs to be already doing well in order for them to be able to rotate, Boonbeast can easily 1v2, hell even stall 1v3s if enemy is dumb, which is exactly whats needed if your team is not good and can't even do even team fights.

    With that logic ele is the best carry in the game.

    What the last time you've seen ele kill two people and in an instant rotate and instagib someone else.
    Don't confuse stalling 1v2 on Neutral node with winning 1v2 on your team nodes and then instagibing someone else somewhere else.

    Realistcly unless the soulbeast is way better he won't win a 1v2.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    I've climbed out of gold playing renegod several times.

    Although now it's best to not take ranked too seriously. There are not enough people playing which causes matchmaking to go haywire. Also the win traders exploiting duo-Q are back in full force this season.

  • Play everything, but focus on what you're best at. From gold 2 to plat 2. EZ

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mysticjedi.6053 said:
    I typically climb from Silver 3 to Platinum 2 all by solo queue when I play my main (Guardian) an entire season. So, yes it is possible.

    If you can make it to P2, how the hell you ended up in silver to begin with.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    Am in a similar situation.

    I can either be at the mercy of my team and play my thief, where I'm reliant on 4 other possible idiots and we'll win or lose no matter what I do (with a rare occurrence where I can play like an absolute god and bring it back - did so early today, very proud, 1/200 games though).

    Or I can duoQ with my firebrand friend, play scourge (about as good as my thief), rotate flawlessly/never die once during the entire match/almost reach 1mil damage/me and the FB get ALL the top stats...and we can still lose because the other 3 are numbskulls.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/383041599103565825/529241054025744424/unknown.png

    Seriously, look at this absolute garbage. It was pretty much that, repeated over and over for 6 hours last night.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Am in a similar situation.

    I can either be at the mercy of my team and play my thief, where I'm reliant on 4 other possible idiots and we'll win or lose no matter what I do (with a rare occurrence where I can play like an absolute god and bring it back - did so early today, very proud, 1/200 games though).

    Or I can duoQ with my firebrand friend, play scourge (about as good as my thief), rotate flawlessly/never die once during the entire match/almost reach 1mil damage/me and the FB get ALL the top stats...and we can still lose because the other 3 are numbskulls.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/383041599103565825/529241054025744424/unknown.png

    Seriously, look at this absolute garbage. It was pretty much that, repeated over and over for 6 hours last night.

    You still died 4 times (19%) which is team average pretty much. Top stats means prolonged fights which means you didnt kill fast enough.
    Also all stats are lower than the enemy team so someone carried their numbskulls harder than you did.

    Not dying is most important factor, especially gold

  • Liza.2758Liza.2758 Member ✭✭
    edited January 1, 2019

    I have a different point of view here.

    I was plat 1 on NA this season. I had a hard time going higher because 90% of games i got some silver gold in my games

    I’m not super good at carrying like some other

    I switched to EU. Wow i have so much better time. The quality and population are so much better. I got to plat 2 very fast

    And I also become so much better player after having to play in more competitive server

    • if you are already in eu. Then I guess. You have to improve yourself
  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Am in a similar situation.

    I can either be at the mercy of my team and play my thief, where I'm reliant on 4 other possible idiots and we'll win or lose no matter what I do (with a rare occurrence where I can play like an absolute god and bring it back - did so early today, very proud, 1/200 games though).

    Or I can duoQ with my firebrand friend, play scourge (about as good as my thief), rotate flawlessly/never die once during the entire match/almost reach 1mil damage/me and the FB get ALL the top stats...and we can still lose because the other 3 are numbskulls.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/383041599103565825/529241054025744424/unknown.png

    Seriously, look at this absolute garbage. It was pretty much that, repeated over and over for 6 hours last night.

    You still died 4 times (19%) which is team average pretty much. Top stats means prolonged fights which means you didnt kill fast enough.
    Also all stats are lower than the enemy team so someone carried their numbskulls harder than you did.

    Not dying is most important factor, especially gold

    In hindsight, I understand how you might've made this assumption - I do not mean that THAT SCREENSHOT RIGHT THERE is the prime example of everything I've just listed, all in one, yadda yadda, I'm a god among men. It's just the only one I bothered to screenshot. Not quite sure what you're trying to get at here, if anything?

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Am in a similar situation.

    I can either be at the mercy of my team and play my thief, where I'm reliant on 4 other possible idiots and we'll win or lose no matter what I do (with a rare occurrence where I can play like an absolute god and bring it back - did so early today, very proud, 1/200 games though).

    Or I can duoQ with my firebrand friend, play scourge (about as good as my thief), rotate flawlessly/never die once during the entire match/almost reach 1mil damage/me and the FB get ALL the top stats...and we can still lose because the other 3 are numbskulls.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/383041599103565825/529241054025744424/unknown.png

    Seriously, look at this absolute garbage. It was pretty much that, repeated over and over for 6 hours last night.

    You still died 4 times (19%) which is team average pretty much. Top stats means prolonged fights which means you didnt kill fast enough.
    Also all stats are lower than the enemy team so someone carried their numbskulls harder than you did.

    Not dying is most important factor, especially gold

    In hindsight, I understand how you might've made this assumption - I do not mean that THAT SCREENSHOT RIGHT THERE is the prime example of everything I've just listed, all in one, yadda yadda, I'm a god among men. It's just the only one I bothered to screenshot. Not quite sure what you're trying to get at here, if anything?

    Just made me confused if the screenshot is not relevant is all

    Id run duelist + roamer instead of fb+scourge so you have better node coverage as indeed you would be dependant on your teammates taking at least 1 node otherwise.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Am in a similar situation.

    I can either be at the mercy of my team and play my thief, where I'm reliant on 4 other possible idiots and we'll win or lose no matter what I do (with a rare occurrence where I can play like an absolute god and bring it back - did so early today, very proud, 1/200 games though).

    Or I can duoQ with my firebrand friend, play scourge (about as good as my thief), rotate flawlessly/never die once during the entire match/almost reach 1mil damage/me and the FB get ALL the top stats...and we can still lose because the other 3 are numbskulls.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/383041599103565825/529241054025744424/unknown.png

    Seriously, look at this absolute garbage. It was pretty much that, repeated over and over for 6 hours last night.

    You still died 4 times (19%) which is team average pretty much. Top stats means prolonged fights which means you didnt kill fast enough.
    Also all stats are lower than the enemy team so someone carried their numbskulls harder than you did.

    Not dying is most important factor, especially gold

    In hindsight, I understand how you might've made this assumption - I do not mean that THAT SCREENSHOT RIGHT THERE is the prime example of everything I've just listed, all in one, yadda yadda, I'm a god among men. It's just the only one I bothered to screenshot. Not quite sure what you're trying to get at here, if anything?

    Just made me confused if the screenshot is not relevant is all

    Id run duelist + roamer instead of fb+scourge so you have better node coverage as indeed you would be dependant on your teammates taking at least 1 node otherwise.

    More of a "Look at the kind of stupid kitten that happens." I don't have screenshots, but I've had necros trying to play decapper (core necros at that, who clearly haven't read their skill tooltips), mirages that feed mid the entire game, warriors who just instantly die (literally, instantly), people who don't know stomping vs. cleaving downs, etc etc. +1'ing the OP, as it were.

    Thanks though, I hadn't thought of that last bit.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2019

    Oh boy, necroposting!
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62751/any-way-to-get-out-of-gold-if-all-i-like-to-play-is-staff-elementalist#latest

    But in all seriousness, progressing up the ladder in ranked GW2 PvP is more of a dice roll than anything else. Low population, party size limits for queues, and excessive bloat options which don't really compete with the low effort meta means that teams are assembled by what is effectively RNG and a lot of matches are decided before they begin.

    It still makes me wonder why, in these circumstances, there is a difference in participation rewards between winners and losers. Not that winners ought not to get more than losers, that's fine, but if we're dealing with what is basically ELO gambling here, why is there a distinction made between the two? If anything, everyone in GW2 PvP should be getting 10 pips per game just for participating in such a withered game mode.

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    If you want to "carry" your team: damage always has, and always will be the way to go.
    Support is good to have, but when you have nothing to support or people just die way too fast anyway because they refuse to kite, its really offers nothing more than some bunkering. Whereas getting kills faster always gives your team a momentum boost and just makes steamrolling a match that much easier.

    So Id say play something like core guard, reaper (just dont stack necros) or even LB soulbeast (which does pretty well in unorganized play imo)

  • Climbing out of gold is more than possible. It just means you have to be good enough to carry the rest of your teammates as much as you can.

    If you cant carry teammates, maybe you dont belong in plat.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not a big PvP player, having played only one ranked season with only dailies and dueling since then. However, I finished my season in platinum and it seemed pretty clear to me that matchmaking, while frustrating at times, absolutely does work.

    If matchmaking doesn't work, why was I stuck in gold 1 initially? Was it bad luck holding me back? If so, then why did changing my build/strategy immediately result in a quick and easy climb all the way up into upper gold 3 after bouncing against that gold 1 ceiling for so many games but never once breaking through? I don't think it was coincidence that the change I made was a shift toward the meta for my class at the time. Do you?

    If matchmaking doesn't work, why did I then hit a new ceiling in plat 1? I got within 2 wins of top 250 with just 3 days left in the season and it felt awesome! Greatness was within my grasp! But it wasn't meant to be and it was easy for me to tell because I had broken into upper plat 1 several times at that point. But just like it was at the beginning of my season, I just couldn't break through that ceiling.

    You're going to win and lose a lot of games that never had a chance to be competitive due to bad matchmaking. But so is everyone else. Those games, while frustrating, don't really impact your rating in the long run because you're as likely to win due to bad matchmaking as you are to lose from it. What matters is that you consistently make enough of an impact to win more of those winnable matches than you lose. If you can do that then you will climb.

    The ceiling tells you when you've reached your limit. You can perhaps get around it with practice, by changing strategy, build, or class. But if you don't change anything you're almost certainly going to find that you can't climb any further.

    It also doesn't really matter what you've achieved before. Remember my little story about being stuck in gold 1? It wasn't because I wasn't capable of playing at a much higher level and it wasn't because of bad luck. It was because the build I was using wasn't producing enough of an impact to shift the balance of wins to losses in my favor over time. Given that, it's entirely possible that you could achieve platinum rank one season, have the meta change on you and then struggle to achieve the same outcome the next season.

    I'm not saying matchmaking is perfect. Far from it. But it seems to do what it's supposed to do, at least from my experience in gold and low platinum tiers.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I'm not a big PvP player, having played only one ranked season with only dailies and dueling since then. However, I finished my season in platinum and it seemed pretty clear to me that matchmaking, while frustrating at times, absolutely does work.

    If matchmaking doesn't work, why was I stuck in gold 1 initially? Was it bad luck holding me back? If so, then why did changing my build/strategy immediately result in a quick and easy climb all the way up into upper gold 3 after bouncing against that gold 1 ceiling for so many games but never once breaking through? I don't think it was coincidence that the change I made was a shift toward the meta for my class at the time. Do you?

    If matchmaking doesn't work, why did I then hit a new ceiling in plat 1? I got within 2 wins of top 250 with just 3 days left in the season and it felt awesome! Greatness was within my grasp! But it wasn't meant to be and it was easy for me to tell because I had broken into upper plat 1 several times at that point. But just like it was at the beginning of my season, I just couldn't break through that ceiling.

    You're going to win and lose a lot of games that never had a chance to be competitive due to bad matchmaking. But so is everyone else. Those games, while frustrating, don't really impact your rating in the long run because you're as likely to win due to bad matchmaking as you are to lose from it. What matters is that you consistently make enough of an impact to win more of those winnable matches than you lose. If you can do that then you will climb.

    The ceiling tells you when you've reached your limit. You can perhaps get around it with practice, by changing strategy, build, or class. But if you don't change anything you're almost certainly going to find that you can't climb any further.

    It also doesn't really matter what you've achieved before. Remember my little story about being stuck in gold 1? It wasn't because I wasn't capable of playing at a much higher level and it wasn't because of bad luck. It was because the build I was using wasn't producing enough of an impact to shift the balance of wins to losses in my favor over time. Given that, it's entirely possible that you could achieve platinum rank one season, have the meta change on you and then struggle to achieve the same outcome the next season.

    I'm not saying matchmaking is perfect. Far from it. But it seems to do what it's supposed to do, at least from my experience in gold and low platinum tiers.

    I don't want to discount your experience - far from it, and in fact I hold it as the gold (heh) standard. However, my experience has been directly contradictory to yours.

    I've gone through 3 warrior builds, all based off metabattle, advice in discord.
    Same for scourge, thief, and 2 for holo (the meta rifle one and a sword/shield purity of purpose cleanse setup - very good at carrying).

    I don't really meet anyone that I can't beat in a 1v1, or even 1v2. I managed to survive a deadeye's pewpew + a warrior's rampage at the same time in the game I just finished several minutes ago, in which we were 75ish (?)points ahead, only to have a DC on our side. They came back just within the timer limit (If someone DCs for long enough you don't lose or gain rank - they came back within that, as I lost rank at the end).

    Anyway. We'd been winning by a significant margin and ended up losing 500-300. I never lost a 1v1 or a 1v2. I even managed to hold a 1v3.

    I'm currently hovering in gold 3 - I almost broke into plat, but a string of losses has brought me down to 1408 rating.

    I don't like to...how to say, toot my own horn? But based on ~200 games in the past several weeks, I am definitely better than the vast majority of gold players.

    There are times, yes, where I -can- carry well enough - two days ago, I even managed to pull off https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/383041599103565825/529466680926273536/unknown.png . I got zero (I think?) top stats, but absolutely obliterated the other team near the end - even got a tell near the end thanking me for pretty much winning the game for them, + what you see in team chat (I indulged in a little bit of strutting, I admit >.>).

    Now, keeping all that in mind...I can see how matchmaking is doing it's job /IN THE LONG RUN/. Very important key phrase there - if someone totally wiped my memory of the season and only showed me the end result, I'd probably go "Oh, yeah, okay, I ended up with ~50% win rate, yadda yadda. That looks fair. Good job anet."

    Unfortunately, as a player, I have to actually suffer through each individual game - the matchmaker doesn't know the difference between a 100-500 loss and a 400-500 loss. It clearly doesn't compensate for DCs on either team, or at least in a way that's easily discernable.

    There's a vast difference in having a 50/50 win/loss ratio where 50% of them are steamrolls and 50% of them are losses due to everything BUT your own skill level (DCs, bots if you're in silver or wherever it is that bots hang out

    In short, my issue is that if matchmaking was designed to maintain a 50/50 win/loss ratio at any cost, it is indeed doing so. However, the statistics don't show what happens on a per-game basis - a 1-500 loss is the same as a 499-500 loss, and it may or may not actually have anything to do with your team or the enemy team.

    Now, I won't claim to be amazing. Perhaps I do, indeed, deserve my g3 ranking. If that IS the case and I'm right where I should be, then why in the HECK am I seeing such massive variance in match quality? If I accept that as truth, I'm seeing things that just...should not be happening if I'm right where I should be.

    So, there's a decent description of my own experiences, which seem to directly contradict yours. And, really, if this is a common experience...we really should demand Anet do better. My current experiences heavily discourage me from playing the game for more than, say...30min a day, and to cherry-pick to play only when things are going well. Something has gone wrong if a game encourages you to play less to do/get more/further.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    I'm not a big PvP player, having played only one ranked season with only dailies and dueling since then. However, I finished my season in platinum and it seemed pretty clear to me that matchmaking, while frustrating at times, absolutely does work.

    If matchmaking doesn't work, why was I stuck in gold 1 initially? Was it bad luck holding me back? If so, then why did changing my build/strategy immediately result in a quick and easy climb all the way up into upper gold 3 after bouncing against that gold 1 ceiling for so many games but never once breaking through? I don't think it was coincidence that the change I made was a shift toward the meta for my class at the time. Do you?

    If matchmaking doesn't work, why did I then hit a new ceiling in plat 1? I got within 2 wins of top 250 with just 3 days left in the season and it felt awesome! Greatness was within my grasp! But it wasn't meant to be and it was easy for me to tell because I had broken into upper plat 1 several times at that point. But just like it was at the beginning of my season, I just couldn't break through that ceiling.

    You're going to win and lose a lot of games that never had a chance to be competitive due to bad matchmaking. But so is everyone else. Those games, while frustrating, don't really impact your rating in the long run because you're as likely to win due to bad matchmaking as you are to lose from it. What matters is that you consistently make enough of an impact to win more of those winnable matches than you lose. If you can do that then you will climb.

    The ceiling tells you when you've reached your limit. You can perhaps get around it with practice, by changing strategy, build, or class. But if you don't change anything you're almost certainly going to find that you can't climb any further.

    It also doesn't really matter what you've achieved before. Remember my little story about being stuck in gold 1? It wasn't because I wasn't capable of playing at a much higher level and it wasn't because of bad luck. It was because the build I was using wasn't producing enough of an impact to shift the balance of wins to losses in my favor over time. Given that, it's entirely possible that you could achieve platinum rank one season, have the meta change on you and then struggle to achieve the same outcome the next season.

    I'm not saying matchmaking is perfect. Far from it. But it seems to do what it's supposed to do, at least from my experience in gold and low platinum tiers.

    I don't want to discount your experience - far from it, and in fact I hold it as the gold (heh) standard. However, my experience has been directly contradictory to yours.

    I've gone through 3 warrior builds, all based off metabattle, advice in discord.
    Same for scourge, thief, and 2 for holo (the meta rifle one and a sword/shield purity of purpose cleanse setup - very good at carrying).

    I don't really meet anyone that I can't beat in a 1v1, or even 1v2. I managed to survive a deadeye's pewpew + a warrior's rampage at the same time in the game I just finished several minutes ago, in which we were 75ish (?)points ahead, only to have a DC on our side. They came back just within the timer limit (If someone DCs for long enough you don't lose or gain rank - they came back within that, as I lost rank at the end).

    Anyway. We'd been winning by a significant margin and ended up losing 500-300. I never lost a 1v1 or a 1v2. I even managed to hold a 1v3.

    I'm currently hovering in gold 3 - I almost broke into plat, but a string of losses has brought me down to 1408 rating.

    I don't like to...how to say, toot my own horn? But based on ~200 games in the past several weeks, I am definitely better than the vast majority of gold players.

    There are times, yes, where I -can- carry well enough - two days ago, I even managed to pull off https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/383041599103565825/529466680926273536/unknown.png . I got zero (I think?) top stats, but absolutely obliterated the other team near the end - even got a tell near the end thanking me for pretty much winning the game for them, + what you see in team chat (I indulged in a little bit of strutting, I admit >.>).

    Now, keeping all that in mind...I can see how matchmaking is doing it's job /IN THE LONG RUN/. Very important key phrase there - if someone totally wiped my memory of the season and only showed me the end result, I'd probably go "Oh, yeah, okay, I ended up with ~50% win rate, yadda yadda. That looks fair. Good job anet."

    Unfortunately, as a player, I have to actually suffer through each individual game - the matchmaker doesn't know the difference between a 100-500 loss and a 400-500 loss. It clearly doesn't compensate for DCs on either team, or at least in a way that's easily discernable.

    There's a vast difference in having a 50/50 win/loss ratio where 50% of them are steamrolls and 50% of them are losses due to everything BUT your own skill level (DCs, bots if you're in silver or wherever it is that bots hang out

    In short, my issue is that if matchmaking was designed to maintain a 50/50 win/loss ratio at any cost, it is indeed doing so. However, the statistics don't show what happens on a per-game basis - a 1-500 loss is the same as a 499-500 loss, and it may or may not actually have anything to do with your team or the enemy team.

    Now, I won't claim to be amazing. Perhaps I do, indeed, deserve my g3 ranking. If that IS the case and I'm right where I should be, then why in the HECK am I seeing such massive variance in match quality? If I accept that as truth, I'm seeing things that just...should not be happening if I'm right where I should be.

    So, there's a decent description of my own experiences, which seem to directly contradict yours. And, really, if this is a common experience...we really should demand Anet do better. My current experiences heavily discourage me from playing the game for more than, say...30min a day, and to cherry-pick to play only when things are going well. Something has gone wrong if a game encourages you to play less to do/get more/further.

    Unfortunately, it's a team game. Kills matter. Surviving matters. But ultimately what wins more games for you is how much of an impact you have on your team's ability to win. We all go on losing streaks, often for reasons beyond our control, but if you're making a positive impact at your rating level then over time you're going to climb. Remember that everyone else is going through the same thing.

    In one of my early matches playing mirage, a very experienced PvP player noticed my terrible rotation and proceeded to call me out on it in chat. I explained that I was new to it and apologized for holding the team back, so we started talking and it turns out he was in the same PvP guild with me! Small world! He asked if I wanted to practice duel and we went at it for an hour or two during which he pulled in I think every single class he had. I won all of those duels (Yeah, I know. Mirage LoL - but I beat his Mirage, too!).

    My point is that despite being a decidedly strong duelist, capable of more than holding my own against players far above me in rating, it wasn't enough by itself to win games. It wasn't the matchmaking system holding me back. It was me. I was (and am - I just don't PvP that much!) a complete noob when it comes to rotation and reading the map. I'll make beginner mistakes every time, even while I wipe the floor with everybody I come across at my rating. And that just isn't going to cut it when your role requires you to go off on your own, making plays. You have to know where to be and when. I lacked the experience to make it work as well as my "just follow the pack" team healer that required relatively little rotation.

    Given that, I don't think your experience contradicts mine at all. Match variance is a given. But like I said, those no-chance wins and losses cancel each other out both in the sense that over time you're just as likely to get a win for that reason as a loss and because your competition are in the same boat. What matters are the games that are within your reach. The question is: Do you make the difference in those matches more often than not? If so, you will climb. If not, you will fall. But this is over a large number of matches. You can't just look at a snapshot or you'll only ever notice those ridiculous matchups that never had a chance (And I agree, there are far too many of them!).

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