idea concerning easymodes, training, helping others or even selling raids (solution for everyone?) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

idea concerning easymodes, training, helping others or even selling raids (solution for everyone?)

So I just had an epic idea (solution?) to all our "problems" in raids, here goes:

Make an item at the beginning of every instance you can interact with once after entering the instance (like there is for CM on every boss), this item sets your status to "inactively participating" and you can only turn it off by leaving the instance and rejoining again. If you are set to this status you can participate in beating the boss, like everyone else, but you won't count towards the maximum player limit (10), that can usually enter the instance and actively participate. You don't get loot or achievements either- nothing. If 10 players are in an instance the 11th can join as soon as at least one of the 10 sets his status to inactive- this way you can't trick the system into having more than 10 active players that get loot.

this will lead to:

  • it is possible to go in there 50 man, but kill would only count for 10 (so that would be easymode for casual players, well maybe that would even be hardmode considering what you see on world bosses sometimes dunno, but it would be possible to do it this way)
  • you can help out a group with lower skilllvl, either one or two guildies that are good at raids and maybe already did their weekly kill could join another group to help , or kitten in this community maybe good players would even offer their services for gold (personally I don't really like this but hey)
  • just sideseeing in a good group is possibe (everyone can be taken with you, just to experience the content on this status)
  • Raidsellers could even sell 10 spots in one go (as i said i'm not a fan of selling help, but to each his own)
  • Training: you can join a better group and learn without taking their loot from them or get "carried" by them , but still learn the encounter while doing it. (maybe it is just my thinking, but I don't think a 50kp+500LI group in LFG, who are waiting for their 2 chronos to join, would mind if someone with few LI and no kp would join in, take this status and do a little extra dps, while not takin up a spot- so i see this as a win win as long as this person doesn't have high toughness and aggros the boss or something. I know I wouldn't mind.)

in my opinion this would be an easy to implement solution (but i'm actually no IT-specialist, so maybe i'm wrong here). The only thing this would not implement would be hardmode, but that is already covered by CM or lowmans i guess, if that isn't hard enough try solo (or maybe 49 open world players and you?)

I hope A-Net reads this, otherwise every opinion is welcomed, even if you want to accuse me of crying for easymode (wich it is not, I do raid regularly and have 300+ LI)
The only kills i'm missing is Dhuum and W6 completely due to a long break and therefore not having a static at the moment, so the training thingy would definitely benefit me, yes. But I'd definitely have fun helping out in bosses I already did my kill in the week in a big zerg, or letting inexperienced ppl join in bosses I do know already.

thoughts?

Comments

  • Minna.7895Minna.7895 Member ✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    Well, you don't get loot or achievements when you have this status, I don't understand what you're getting at. I didn't say anything about not keeping the weekly loot as it is now.

    Edit: As for multiple accounts: they can already do that with raidselling/lowman/etc (I'm not sure lvl1 would be allowed in the instance though)

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    @Minna.7895 said:
    Well, you don't get loot or achievements when you have this status, I don't understand what you're getting at. I didn't say anything about not keeping the weekly loot as it is now.

    Edit: As for multiple accounts: they can already do that with raidselling/lowman/etc (I'm not sure lvl1 would be allowed in the instance though)

    Except you do. 10 people get the loot. Ergo now raid sellers can sell this to 10 people and other people can now just zerg rush the boss.

    There is a vast difference between being able to full squad kill a boss AND sell to 10 people, and actually being good enough to 8-mann or 9-mann a boss and sell to 1-2. That's not even touching on the subject of how I feel about raid selling.

    What I am getting at is: this is a hilariously bad idea and essentially just means trivializing content. Why would ANY one need this for practice when you can simply kill each boss with 20 people helping out and cutting the boss fight down to 30 seconds or have people who know the fight just do it for you?

    You are literally adding a way for people not to have to practice or deal with any mechanics.

    Maybe amend the idea to NO ONE GETS LOOT. That way it would at least make somewhat sense as a practice possibility.

  • Yeah I see what you meant now and maybe you are even right and my idea is just that bad, but do you really think ppl would make themselves altaccounts just to benefit from this? I mean, how would they even? The only thing your alt gets out of this is maybe gear and achievement points, would you create an army for that? Remember you have to buy HoT and/or PoF for this to work. The only sellable item dropping or buyable with shards is ghostly infusion if I'm not mistaken, so maybe that'll drop in TP price ( I'd personally see that as an added bonus if this gets cheaper). You don't have any benefits besides accbound stuff, hardly worth creating an alt for in my opinion

  • Digit.1823Digit.1823 Member ✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    @Minna.7895 said:
    Yeah I see what you meant now and maybe you are even right and my idea is just that bad, but do you really think ppl would make themselves altaccounts just to benefit from this? I mean, how would they even? The only thing your alt gets out of this is maybe gear and achievement points, would you create an army for that? Remember you have to buy HoT and/or PoF for this to work. The only sellable item dropping or buyable with shards is ghostly infusion if I'm not mistaken, so maybe that'll drop in TP price ( I'd personally see that as an added bonus if this gets cheaper). You don't have any benefits besides accbound stuff, hardly worth creating an alt for in my opinion

    If you can think up of this (the alt-account thing) then other people can as well. And yes, they are going to use this to benefit from it because hey, people are people...shocker.

    Plus multiboxing is already a thing where you allow multiple instances of the game to be ran from one pc, so the tech is already there anyway.

    And think of it like this: 10 raiders get their weekly kill. With your suggestion those 10 can then "opt out" of the loot table and give it to 10 of their alts....rinse and repeat till all their alt accounts have gotten their weekly gold/mag shards/geating crystals/drops from the raid bosses. And don't be surprised, raids aren't exactly the highest gold-per-hour farm but a full clear still nets you quite a bit. Do that 2 times, 3 times, 4 or even more times depending on how many alts you have and well gold starts raking in pretty hard.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    @Minna.7895 said:
    Yeah I see what you meant now and maybe you are even right and my idea is just that bad, but do you really think ppl would make themselves altaccounts just to benefit from this?

    They would (also would have to buy HoT) and people have. There is people who have alt accounts for only the login rewards already.

    @Minna.7895 said:
    The only thing your alt gets out of this is maybe gear and achievement points, would you create an army for that?

    I did the math for someone else a while back, it comes out to about 140-160 gold per week if you convert almost everything you get (magnetite shards and gating crystals too) without super lucky exotic drops. Again, people have alt accounts for only login rewards which net around 100 gold per month. These people would go from 100 gold to 500+ gold per account (if we assume only 100 gold of raid rewards per week which is very generous towards the low-end).

    @Minna.7895 said:
    Remember you have to buy HoT and/or PoF for this to work.

    The one time cost for HoT and PoF are almost immediately recuperated with raid rewards.

    @Minna.7895 said:
    The only sellable item dropping or buyable with shards is ghostly infusion if I'm not mistaken, so maybe that'll drop in TP price ( I'd personally see that as an added bonus if this gets cheaper). You don't have any benefits besides accbound stuff, hardly worth creating an alt for in my opinion

    • gorseval infusion (for magnetite shards)
    • Shrouded Bench of the Final Judge and Brilliant Djinn Doubloon (for gaeting crystals)

    Both of which I had added value wise in my calculation with I believe 100 gold for the Gorseval Infusion and 400 gold for the Bench.

    The only merit I see here is the ability to take people along if no one gets rewards. That would sort of allow for people to see story and encounters. Not sure how hard this would be to implement or of how much use this would actually be to train people, but that's a different issue.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Now I think I didn't get the point. It shouldn't be possible to have more than 10 ppl on boss, but allowing ppl to see the kill (from some platform) would be rly good, trainingwise.
    IMO selling raids is lame and should be forbidden

  • 10 raiders who have the time for this and the means to do so (buying expansion on multiple accounts just to raid more than once a week and get the loot), already do. It wouldn't make a difference, equipment for raiding with 10ppl doesn't even have to be ascended (exotic berserkers will do just fine and is cheap on TP). I'll give you that it is propably expensive for chrono/druid to get to this, but well it just evens out this difference then.

  • @Safandula.8723 said:
    Now I think I didn't get the point. It shouldn't be possible to have more than 10 ppl on boss, but allowing ppl to see the kill (from some platform) would be rly good, trainingwise.
    IMO selling raids is lame and should be forbidden

    That is in my opinion not needed because you can just watch a video for that. I meant training as in practice. As for raidselling: I don't like that either but it is a thing. Did you ever see someone offer a spot for free in chat or lfg? I didn't, and that's why the "zero rewards for nobody" isn't gonna happen communitywise either I guess. Hence my idea with the added space for free and no reward, but the 10 rewards staying.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    1. Raid clear buyer do it for loot and achievements, you idea is no go.
    2. New players that want to learn raid, by your idea would be a death weigh on the floor, so won't learn anything.

    What am I missing?

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What's stopping anyone from still asking for payment? And besides, why wouldn't they still ask for payment anyway? They are still carrying.

    I'm trying imagine Slothasor or Matthias with 50 people.

  • @phs.6089 said:
    1. Raid clear buyer do it for loot and achievements, you idea is no go.
    2. New players that want to learn raid, by your idea would be a death weigh on the floor, so won't learn anything.

    What am I missing?

    1. they can buy in packs of 10 then from ppl who offer (believe me this would happen)
    2. well they would learn much more than without training raids (yes those happen, but mostly for W1 to W4 Bosses and very few meanwhile, when I started raiding they were much more frequently and btw they changed from explaining mechanics and then practicing them to: "you don't already know mechanics? too bad, it is training but we expect a kill after 3 trys anyways and won't explain what to do to anyone")

    what I just remembered from this exploiting thing that was discussed earlier: wasn't it forbidden to not play active with your alt (read: leeching dungeon/fractal whatever without participating?)

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2019

    @Minna.7895 said:

    @phs.6089 said:
    1. Raid clear buyer do it for loot and achievements, you idea is no go.
    2. New players that want to learn raid, by your idea would be a death weigh on the floor, so won't learn anything.

    What am I missing?

    1. they can buy in packs of 10 then from ppl who offer (believe me this would happen)
    2. well they would learn much more than without training raids (yes those happen, but mostly for W1 to W4 Bosses and very few meanwhile, when I started raiding they were much more frequently and btw they changed from explaining mechanics and then practicing them to: "you don't already know mechanics? too bad, it is training but we expect a kill after 3 trys anyways and won't explain what to do to anyone")

    what I just remembered from this exploiting thing that was discussed earlier: wasn't it forbidden to not play active with your alt (read: leeching dungeon/fractal whatever without participating?)

    How do you learn the boss mech from the floor? If 10 raiders are rushing clear and take someone new, they won't stop and /gg every time new person dies, would they? If you believe that watching boss fight will teach something, then there videos on tube.

    I didn't get the pack of 10 you talking, if you say the mote will cancel achievements and loot, what is the point to buy that boss kill?

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • the sellers would take the no loot slots and offer the buyers the 10 loot slots., obviously. so it would be possible to sell 10 spots in one go.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Minna.7895 said:
    the sellers would take the no loot slots and offer the buyers the 10 loot slots., obviously. so it would be possible to sell 10 spots in one go.

    So the gloves come out, you just wanna sell one run for more, Gotchu

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • honestly i personally would hope that this change would lead more to - "hey we are not elitist- lets just do the content 5 times with 50 ppl so everyone gets his kill", but you'll never know. (and yes i consider that fair if a not so skilled player has to do it more often but in the end gets his kill. suddenly the raidcommunity would be growing and be much more welcoming- wouldnt that be great?)

  • @phs.6089 said:

    @Minna.7895 said:
    the sellers would take the no loot slots and offer the buyers the 10 loot slots., obviously. so it would be possible to sell 10 spots in one go.

    So the gloves come out, you just wanna sell one run for more, Gotchu

    no iam neither a raidseller nor am i someone who doesn't have access to raiding in general, but there are tons of players who do. it's just my opinion and even anet would benefit from this according to the one who mentioned the multiaccounts.
    how the mechanics would turn out in this scenario im not quite sure (sloth and matthias - possibly that could be outhealed in a big zerg if someone drops poison in the wrong place maybe not (maybe longbow rangers and mmnecros can finish the job then ? i really don't know, but wouldn't it be awesome to find out?)

  • @phs.6089 said:

    How do you learn the boss mech from the floor? If 10 raiders are rushing clear and take someone new, they won't stop and /gg every time new person dies, would they? If you believe that watching boss fight will teach something, then there videos on tube.

    ofc they wouldn't gg for an extra, that's not necessary, but don't you believe you can learn much more from this than watching a video? Not everything is a oneshot mechanic, so even without a clue you can live a good amount through the fight and see what's going on and train (maybe even have watched a video beforehand and just wanna practice). i know I learn better that way than not doing it myself and just watching a video.

  • @Minna.7895 said:
    honestly i personally would hope that this change would lead more to - "hey we are not elitist- lets just do the content 5 times with 50 ppl so everyone gets his kill", but you'll never know. (and yes i consider that fair if a not so skilled player has to do it more often but in the end gets his kill. suddenly the raidcommunity would be growing and be much more welcoming- wouldnt that be great?)

    I mean people are not elitist, They CAN see the downsides, just imagine this change happened and 10weeks later people could've leeched/zerged full clears weekly and gotten 150li and 70LD. Now they try and join exp people while they know jack kitten and be horrible leeches, because they never properly learned the boss mechanics.

    Or even worse, they join 500/750li+ groups and say they should be allowed in and just get someone extra to help out and get me my loot. And do not say this won't happen, way too much of GW2 casual people already have a VERY bad snowflake mentality and feel they're entitled to getting raid rewards (there were literally posts on here by people who complained doing 5k as a dps role should be acceptable cause he/she should be able to get the raid legendary armor) wo putting even 5% of the effort any half decent raider put in.

    This change would just ruin dev time and take it away from the people who the content is made for, more tryhard people. Do not punish people that play raids as 50-90% of their play time because people feel entitled for everything. Or make it so Anet removes all open world teams and make them work on easy mode raids, cause those are the people that content is designed for.

    As for saying there are only w1-4 training raids, actually look at LFG on EU or join one of the 50-150+ training guilds. even yesterday I saw both w5 and w6 training runs on EU lfg.

    Seriously Challenging content is named that for a reason, it means that only people with the effort and motivation will succeed in it.

  • Or people could just put some actual effort into it and 10 man clear it normally. If a garbo like me can do it anyone can.
    sheesh...these posts.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No needed.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly, if players would stop trying to emulate record kills and speedclear tactics for training or even weekly fullclears, anet would definitely NOT need to jump through any hoops to make raiding possible for more casual players.

    Fact is, with the right comp, with correct builds and half an hour spent at the golem going through your rotation, raiding already is easy mode on most bosses.

    However, if you try to raid without proper boons, with only 1-2 druids for heals, everyone totally focused on only their dps... then even normal mode MO becomes challenge mode, instead of the very easy and relaxed bosskill it can be.

    In all my time spend in mmos, Ive never encountered a community like the one in gw2. Maybe anet is partially to blame for it, because they actually try to listen and respond to complaints. But this is just... Im baffled. Theres constantly someone trying to suggest solutions how ANET should fix problems the PLAYERS cause themselves, instead of players actually just LISTENING to raid veterans and solving the problem themselves.

    Theres several comps floating around that work a hundred times better for training/casual clears than 2xdruid+2xchrono, and still, when I join a low/none LI squad I see nearly always that exact comp. Maybe... and thats a big maybe... sometimes I see a healscourge instead of a second druid. But thats it. Needless to say that boonuptime is always quite bad.

    And here's the thing. There already is an easy mode for raids in gw2. Its called 100% boon uptime. How to achieve this in current meta? Well, most easily with fb/ren/druid comp. 2x harrier firebrand, 1x harrier renegade, 1x harrier druid. Four supporters with easy and instant access to all boons, short boon re-application interval and high output volume. But what does the community run instead? Chronos, with their low boon re-application interval and high'ish skill threshold (compared to firebrands at least). And two druids because... well, one druid could... you know... DIE.

    Im sorry for this rant, but this really had to be said. Instead of trying to come up with ideas how ANET should make raids "easier" for new players, how about all of you take the first step towards how YOU can make raids easier on yourself and new players? Sometimes this community strongly reminds me of those children instantly running to their parent(s) asking for help, instead of trying on their own first.

  • most bosses would kill 50 noobs spamming 1. I don't understand how lawn mowing the challenge teaches anyone to get better. It is pretty clear what the pathway to learning is. fractals, fractal CM's, raids, raid CM's. I just wish there was AR in raids so more people are funneled to t4 fractals to learn mechanics.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭

    now we have easy mode raid - wihtout lee, kp, - this is bounty. Welcome in POF

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15, 2019

    We already have a decent system in game if they ever wanted to put easy mode.

    Namely the Buffs before the final fight in ep5. Have it to where ppl can pick up the buffs turning the fight into easy mode and simply scale the rewards with said buffs used in mind.

  • Iris Ng.9845Iris Ng.9845 Member ✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    We already have a decent system in game if they ever wanted to put easy mode.

    Namely the Buffs before the final fight in ep5. Have it to where ppl can pick up the buffs turning the fight into easy mode and simply scale the rewards with said buffs used in mind.

    Those buffs are OP and so unnecessary. Hahaha.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Iris Ng.9845 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    We already have a decent system in game if they ever wanted to put easy mode.

    Namely the Buffs before the final fight in ep5. Have it to where ppl can pick up the buffs turning the fight into easy mode and simply scale the rewards with said buffs used in mind.

    Those buffs are OP and so unnecessary. Hahaha.

    So is any easy mode for the existing raids but ppl keep asking /shrug

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    now we have easy mode raid - wihtout lee, kp, - this is bounty. Welcome in POF

    If you thins bounties are even close to raids, Bloodstone Fen bosses must be CM for you.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Your way of implementing sounds a little complicated but I am all in for ingame raid spectator modes in principle. You should know though that while GW2 has one of, if not the best, MMO skill/combat system, the effect spamming is real. Watching 10 people fighting a huge glowing monster while green, red and blue circles pop up everywhere with different effects and required reactions each can be just as chaotic as it sounds like.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    I'm trying imagine Slothasor or Matthias with 50 people.

    KC with 50 people with those circles that deal 10% HP damage per player inside them... Oh the horror...

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Squire (Rank 5001) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 30k Achievement Points
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  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    How about adding "rage mote" where you can increase the rage timer at the cost of drastically decreasing rewards?

    With this, players can try and experience all the mechanics an encounter has to offer on the same difficulty without the time constraints of being suddenly insanely hard. This will also give players the chance to let them practice and try to finish an encounter within the default enrage timer and give them the experience and courage to try the regular timers.

    Heck, even put in the opposite for the vets to give them more rewards if they want some challenge.

    Hi.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    No thank you

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2019

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    What's stopping anyone from still asking for payment? And besides, why wouldn't they still ask for payment anyway? They are still carrying.

    I'm trying imagine Slothasor or Matthias with 50 people.

    Well, if you could carry 40 people through a boss wing, the raid selling prices would go down hard. Unfortunately that's probably the only good thing i can see about this proposal.

    Some mechanics might end up really crazy (bombs on everyone on statues phase on kc? bombs on matthias? randoms dropping poison everywhere on matthias or slothasor? Samarog cc phases happening one after another?), although with so many people they could likely be simply outdps-ed, using carried players as cannon fodder when necessary.

    With so much dps though i don't see how anyone could see anything from mechanic. It would be solely used to carry others.

    @Minna.7895 said:
    ofc they wouldn't gg for an extra, that's not necessary, but don't you believe you can learn much more from this than watching a video?

    With one additional person? Perhaps (although in good groups new players even now have sometimes problems in seeing mechanics, if the kill is too smooth). With additional 10-20 people? Boss would phase so fast you would see nothing.

    In general, i am all for making raids easier, but that even for me would be going way too far.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

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