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Changes to improve mesmer (Buffs, Nerfs, QoL)

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  • incisorr.9502incisorr.9502 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2019

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    And I disagree. How hard is it?

    that's like saying that you disagree that the earth is round. It's a factual issue and not an opinion based issue

    if the same skill can do 1600 damage and 13,000 damage based on different circumstances and factors then it's clearly the circumstances that make the difference and not the skill itself, which is why if you're looking for the culprit of "big damage" you look at the circumstances

    Skill damage depends on certain factors? Well color me surprised. That is true for every skill in the game. It says nothing about how strong or weak the skill is.

    By the way, this guy said I am like a flat-earther for having the opinion that scepter 3 is an issue, so I replied "Wrong". And anet deleted my post and gave me a warning?? Incredible. Just permaban me from the game and get it over with.

    maybe because posting just a single word is considered non-constructive or provocative

    and yes it's true that skills are influenced by circumstances in other games as well but what makes you think 3 is a good skill?

    It's the second slowest skill in the entire game.

    It has medium range.

    It's targeted non-aoe skill.

    The skill has nothing good going for it except that it clumps up a bunch of your power into a few hits. There are way more skills that do the same in the game and like a broken record should i start repeating them? Most classes have a skill like this, if not all.

    Fact remains that multipliers in gw2 are way too strong. If you nerf the skill even further then classes without multipliers will get nerfed while classes with multipliers will still be better.
    Chrono can have 25 might stacks easier than mirage. In fact, mirage can't have 25 might stacks unless it gets them from someone else or plays power mantra with quickness and even then the window is very small in which you can have high stacks and you need greatsword so yeah. If you nerf the skill then you're essentially going to nerf more than just chrono's broken scepter damage because core mesmer and mirage don't have might stacks and when the skill is nerfed for them - it'll do less damage. In the end, chrono will still do more damage so this nerf proposal is misguided and isn't going to achieve the goal you want. (And yes, chrono will still lose more dmg but they also don't care about it as much because for them it already does excess dmg, while for something like a wizard amulet mirage - losing this will hurt you much more since you actually need the numbers)

    the correct way to nerf "unfair power damage" would be to nerf the modifiers to it. That way you're not making the skill obsolete for half of the builds in the game

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    And I want mesmer to be viable without power at all, like with a future potential amulet that's main staff Condition Damage, off stats Expertise and Vitality.

    you mean like deadshot..? anyway we're past the point where a condition build can be viable without power. The game has too much spammable condi removal and on high elo, where people can play their classes, if you don't have power then your damage isn't going to stick. There will be fights in which it feels like you're not doing much (and you won't be) if your enemy is fast enough to cleanse. You pretty much NEED power for any condi build at this point , else you're risking being useless against some classes and especially teams with firebrand. In a way, the power-creep killed the non-power condition builds. I've played around with deadshot a bunch and while it's good vs some classes with less condi removal (mainly in 1v1s) it's simply much worse than an amulet with +power and condi dmg. You even need precision at this point cus yeah...

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    And I disagree. How hard is it?

    that's like saying that you disagree that the earth is round. It's a factual issue and not an opinion based issue

    if the same skill can do 1600 damage and 13,000 damage based on different circumstances and factors then it's clearly the circumstances that make the difference and not the skill itself, which is why if you're looking for the culprit of "big damage" you look at the circumstances

    Skill damage depends on certain factors? Well color me surprised. That is true for every skill in the game. It says nothing about how strong or weak the skill is.

    By the way, this guy said I am like a flat-earther for having the opinion that scepter 3 is an issue, so I replied "Wrong". And anet deleted my post and gave me a warning?? Incredible. Just permaban me from the game and get it over with.

    maybe because posting just a single word is considered non-constructive or provocative

    and yes it's true that skills are influenced by circumstances in other games as well but what makes you think 3 is a good skill?

    It's the second slowest skill in the entire game.

    It has medium range.

    It's targeted non-aoe skill.

    The skill has nothing good going for it except that it clumps up a bunch of your power into a few hits. There are way more skills that do the same in the game and like a broken record should i start repeating them? Most classes have a skill like this, if not all.

    Fact remains that multipliers in gw2 are way too strong. If you nerf the skill even further then classes without multipliers will get nerfed while classes with multipliers will still be better.

    I never said that base damage would be a better way to nerf the skill, I am fine with changing the modifier.

    Chrono can have 25 might stacks easier than mirage. In fact, mirage can't have 25 might stacks unless it gets them from someone else or plays power mantra with quickness and even then the window is very small in which you can have high stacks and you need greatsword so yeah. If you nerf the skill then you're essentially going to nerf more than just chrono's broken scepter damage because core mesmer and mirage don't have might stacks and when the skill is nerfed for them - it'll do less damage. In the end, chrono will still do more damage so this nerf proposal is misguided and isn't going to achieve the goal you want. (And yes, chrono will still lose more dmg but they also don't care about it as much because for them it already does excess dmg, while for something like a wizard amulet mirage - losing this will hurt you much more since you actually need the numbers)

    I dispute that, I don't think chrono is better at getting might than mirage. The leg up that chrono has is phantasmal force, which doesn't give very much might at all even with chronophantasma by my testing. Meanwhile mirage has gs ambush and staff ambush which give more might in my experience.

    the correct way to nerf "unfair power damage" would be to nerf the modifiers to it. That way you're not making the skill obsolete for half of the builds in the game

    I haven't tested it with builds that lack power but this sounds fine.

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    And I want mesmer to be viable without power at all, like with a future potential amulet that's main staff Condition Damage, off stats Expertise and Vitality.

    you mean like deadshot..? anyway we're past the point where a condition build can be viable without power. The game has too much spammable condi removal and on high elo, where people can play their classes, if you don't have power then your damage isn't going to stick. There will be fights in which it feels like you're not doing much (and you won't be) if your enemy is fast enough to cleanse. You pretty much NEED power for any condi build at this point , else you're risking being useless against some classes and especially teams with firebrand. In a way, the power-creep killed the non-power condition builds. I've played around with deadshot a bunch and while it's good vs some classes with less condi removal (mainly in 1v1s) it's simply much worse than an amulet with +power and condi dmg. You even need precision at this point cus yeah...

    // Yanim

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @incisorr.9502 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    And I disagree. How hard is it?

    that's like saying that you disagree that the earth is round. It's a factual issue and not an opinion based issue

    if the same skill can do 1600 damage and 13,000 damage based on different circumstances and factors then it's clearly the circumstances that make the difference and not the skill itself, which is why if you're looking for the culprit of "big damage" you look at the circumstances

    Skill damage depends on certain factors? Well color me surprised. That is true for every skill in the game. It says nothing about how strong or weak the skill is.

    By the way, this guy said I am like a flat-earther for having the opinion that scepter 3 is an issue, so I replied "Wrong". And anet deleted my post and gave me a warning?? Incredible. Just permaban me from the game and get it over with.

    maybe because posting just a single word is considered non-constructive or provocative

    and yes it's true that skills are influenced by circumstances in other games as well but what makes you think 3 is a good skill?

    It's the second slowest skill in the entire game.

    It has medium range.

    It's targeted non-aoe skill.

    The skill has nothing good going for it except that it clumps up a bunch of your power into a few hits. There are way more skills that do the same in the game and like a broken record should i start repeating them? Most classes have a skill like this, if not all.

    Fact remains that multipliers in gw2 are way too strong. If you nerf the skill even further then classes without multipliers will get nerfed while classes with multipliers will still be better.
    Chrono can have 25 might stacks easier than mirage. In fact, mirage can't have 25 might stacks unless it gets them from someone else or plays power mantra with quickness and even then the window is very small in which you can have high stacks and you need greatsword so yeah. If you nerf the skill then you're essentially going to nerf more than just chrono's broken scepter damage because core mesmer and mirage don't have might stacks and when the skill is nerfed for them - it'll do less damage. In the end, chrono will still do more damage so this nerf proposal is misguided and isn't going to achieve the goal you want. (And yes, chrono will still lose more dmg but they also don't care about it as much because for them it already does excess dmg, while for something like a wizard amulet mirage - losing this will hurt you much more since you actually need the numbers)

    the correct way to nerf "unfair power damage" would be to nerf the modifiers to it. That way you're not making the skill obsolete for half of the builds in the game

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    And I want mesmer to be viable without power at all, like with a future potential amulet that's main staff Condition Damage, off stats Expertise and Vitality.

    you mean like deadshot..? anyway we're past the point where a condition build can be viable without power. The game has too much spammable condi removal and on high elo, where people can play their classes, if you don't have power then your damage isn't going to stick. There will be fights in which it feels like you're not doing much (and you won't be) if your enemy is fast enough to cleanse. You pretty much NEED power for any condi build at this point , else you're risking being useless against some classes and especially teams with firebrand. In a way, the power-creep killed the non-power condition builds. I've played around with deadshot a bunch and while it's good vs some classes with less condi removal (mainly in 1v1s) it's simply much worse than an amulet with +power and condi dmg. You even need precision at this point cus yeah...

    Nerf condi removal until pure condi is viable. EZ fix.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    When confounding suggestions change was suggested it was with an ICD, without it chronos will stun for incredible amounts of time, next pvp forums cries will be about it, mesmer will get nerfed even harder and other professions will escape the nerfs once more.
    So ANet add an ICD to CS before patch release please.

    The degenerate

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    When confounding suggestions change was suggested it was with an ICD, without it chronos will stun for incredible amounts of time, next pvp forums cries will be about it, mesmer will get nerfed even harder and other professions will escape the nerfs once more.
    So ANet add an ICD to CS before patch release please.

    It doesn't stack, but yeah it will still be potentially long with CS and Signet of Illusions.

    // Yanim

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Updated with blinding dissipation, evasive mirror and confusing images.

    The degenerate

  • dronte.3416dronte.3416 Member ✭✭✭

    All dueling master traits are borderline useless now. It doesn't matter if we are talking about power or condi mirage, core mes, or anything, which is ridiculous. The on-demand blind was what made melee dueling possible against hard-hitting (currently overtuned) melee classes like holosmith and spellbreaker (see: Rampage).

    Now Blinding Dissipation is completely utter useless. Rework.

    The Evasive Mirror nerf was well-deserved, but 10s seems a bit excessive imo. Anet could lower cd to around 7-8s but it still will be a very clunky trait. Rework.

    Sword trait is totally useless for pvp obviously, but I guess it's needed for PvE builds?

    All 3 main hand weapons for mesmer are actually terrible now.

    Sword was good until the evade frame was nerfed, now it's even worse without the blind traits (you are forced to attack ranged more). Barely useful. One small buff should start with extending the range of sword3+ port imo, or make sword2 1,5s evade (why was it nerfed in the first place...?)

    Scepter3 hits like a wet noodle now, nerf, again, was well-deserved, but way over the top. Either buff it back by 10-20%, or rework.

    Axe.. always a clunky weapon, now nerfed to ground (deservedly). Rework.

    These are the first few things that come to my mind, but there are an incredibly huge number of traits being useless on mesmer...

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am still firmly of the mind that ALL weapon skills for all classes should be removed and integrated into the baseline weapon. You know how to use the weapon cause it's part of the class, period, done. Replace them all with something else.

    It's also not consistent what classes and weapons have these or not.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Since we got new people on the balance team I think it's worth trying to bump this. While most of these are still accurate, I'll edit the op with new stuff.
    Feel free to add your ideas, I'll add those to the first post.

    The degenerate

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2019

    Put back some glamour trait instead of bad designed flat thing like egotism.
    About chrono I think having more health on illusion (+80%) can provide a differenciation than core/mirage while no be in this current unplyable state.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Don't buff anything, just (1) QoL (2) Add glamour trait (3) Nerfs.

    Do the same with all classes (in line with the announced long term powerlevel adjustment prospects).

    // Yanim

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Put back some glamour trait instead of bad designed flat thing like egotism.
    About chrono I think having more health on illusion (+80%) can provide a differenciation than core/mirage while no be in this current unplyable state.

    Added those in the op post.

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Don't buff anything, just (1) QoL (2) Add glamour trait (3) Nerfs.

    Do the same with all classes (in line with the announced long term powerlevel adjustment prospects).

    While it would be good, I doubt any other professions will get nerfed as hard as mesmer was this past 2 years plus all of this suggestions are buffs to useless trash.

    The degenerate

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Going to chime in regarding Sand through Glass again - in light of the statement to bring the whole game's powercreep down.

    I do believe if that happens and everything drops to pre HoT levels (or even just HoT levels), then StG may be pretty solid as it is.

    I only have two points:

    • StG removes Immobilise (to ensure always moving away from Mirror spawn, otherwise currently what happens if Immobilised is Mirror is instantly broken because you don't move, making the whole thing a single evade on 25s cooldown which is stupid).
    • StG gets priority over other actions - similar to other stunbreaks such as Decoy, or similar to just a normal dodge which can interrupt other casts (otherwise right now it does not take effect during other skill casts. You can try this with axe 2 - Decoy will stealth on button press during the animation, StG will not do anything. If it could take effect this would allow things like initiating axe 2 cast to spawn clone and immediately into StG backwards dodge if needed).

    I think those two things would sort out a lot of the reliability and clunkiness.

    My ears, how are you! | Hammer Mesmer - elite spec concept.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Going to chime in regarding Sand through Glass again - in light of the statement to bring the whole game's powercreep down.

    I do believe if that happens and everything drops to pre HoT levels (or even just HoT levels), then StG may be pretty solid as it is.

    I only have two points:

    • StG removes Immobilise (to ensure always moving away from Mirror spawn, otherwise currently what happens if Immobilised is Mirror is instantly broken because you don't move, making the whole thing a single evade on 25s cooldown which is stupid).
    • StG gets priority over other actions - similar to other stunbreaks such as Decoy, or similar to just a normal dodge which can interrupt other casts (otherwise right now it does not take effect during other skill casts. You can try this with axe 2 - Decoy will stealth on button press during the animation, StG will not do anything. If it could take effect this would allow things like initiating axe 2 cast to spawn clone and immediately into StG backwards dodge if needed).

    I think those two things would sort out a lot of the reliability and clunkiness.

    Added those to the first post.

    The degenerate

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Added those to the first post.

    The degenerate

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Going to chime in regarding Sand through Glass again - in light of the statement to bring the whole game's powercreep down.

    I do believe if that happens and everything drops to pre HoT levels (or even just HoT levels), then StG may be pretty solid as it is.

    I only have two points:

    • StG removes Immobilise (to ensure always moving away from Mirror spawn, otherwise currently what happens if Immobilised is Mirror is instantly broken because you don't move, making the whole thing a single evade on 25s cooldown which is stupid).
    • StG gets priority over other actions - similar to other stunbreaks such as Decoy, or similar to just a normal dodge which can interrupt other casts (otherwise right now it does not take effect during other skill casts. You can try this with axe 2 - Decoy will stealth on button press during the animation, StG will not do anything. If it could take effect this would allow things like initiating axe 2 cast to spawn clone and immediately into StG backwards dodge if needed).

    I think those two things would sort out a lot of the reliability and clunkiness.

    Yep, sounds good.

    // Yanim