Soulbeast is utterly useless

The traitline is the worst one..even more than Markmanship , unstoppable union was the only worth addition to ranger skillset because right now with the current balance, losing sustain from core ranger for a little bit more dmg on initial burst with LB...it's not worth the tag price of an expansion.

I am not asking for an upgrade on core ranger......I am asking for a reason to play soulbeast...it offers the same playstyle of core ranger but with less sustain and arguably a little better dmg..

Boonbeast didn't rely on unstoppable union to begin with. It took a bit of a hit with Second Skin and Call of the Wild, but also got a bit of damage boost from Twice as Vicious. Considering how many other classes got nerfed, it's not in a bad spot.

And for PvE, it's still solid because it never relied on UU.

I play pvp sic'em sniper LB/GS. Given other class changes, I am still able to do quite a lot of damage. Just a bit less bursty.

If you're really wanting to stick with longbow for sPvP, there's still benefits to Soubeast over core ranger, such as for beastmode skills and Dolyak Stance that give a lot more sustain, but Core Ranger is definitely a lot closer in terms of overall efficacy.

With perfect balance soulbeast should not be stronger than core ranger. In practice elite specs are often more powerful than core ones but this is not their goal.Soulbeast have a little bit different playstyle with dagger and pet merging than core ranger also this is part of their traitline so the traitline is definitly better than marksmanship in most cases.If you are avoiding parts of class mechanics(like new weapon or it's own skills) then you shouldn't expect giant difference in playstyle, just a little more options and I think soulbeast delivers on it(for longbow with elite skill, stance and skills and stats from pets).I don't really see a problem here.

@Sznurek.8791 said:With perfect balance soulbeast should not be stronger than core ranger. In practice elite specs are often more powerful than core ones but this is not their goal.Soulbeast have a little bit different playstyle with dagger and pet merging than core ranger also this is part of their traitline so the traitline is definitly better than marksmanship in most cases.If you are avoiding parts of class mechanics(like new weapon or it's own skills) then you shouldn't expect giant difference in playstyle, just a little more options and I think soulbeast delivers on it(for longbow with elite skill, stance and skills and stats from pets).I don't really see a problem here.

There's effectively no way to balance SB vs core without changing the way the entire pet mechanic works.

Either

They are more or less the same by default and SB comes out on top thanks to merge bonuses.

Or

SB is weaker when not merged and people just stay merged as long as possible effectively making it a whole different class.

SB exists entirely as a way for Anet to address the problems of the pet in a pvp setting without having to actually create an entirely new system of AI or skills from the ground up just for one class's mechanic that they probably regret making 1000 times over by now.

The actual Soulbeast traitline has never been that good (bar UU and FR among the adept traits). It's the mechanic coupled with 2-3 solid core traitlines that carry the builds. Damage modifiers are fine, standard for a damage oriented spec, but other than that and the adept traits? All the master traits are complete meh (outside Second Skin, which is still a boring trait nevertheless). Leader of the Pack is more beneficial to the ranger itself, and rarely pans out to be worth it for allies except when the stance also has a boon to share (mainly stab from dolyak), and Eternal Bond should have been scrapped day one.

@Substance E.4852 said:

SB exists entirely as a way for Anet to address the problems of the pet in a pvp setting without having to actually create an entirely new system of AI or skills from the ground up just for one class's mechanic that they probably regret making 1000 times over by now.

absolutely agree.

I would pay anet for a simple and functional mechanic like virtues

Soulbeast useless lmao seriously?

Not useless, just likely outclassed as a roaming DPS/+1.The traitline's not bad, but its pretty boring. It feels like Stance Share could have been a thing if the duration was better for allies recieving them....and lets not even start on Dagger.

@"Euthymias.7984" said:The traitline's not bad

It's functional. Adept and minors are good (I'd make Furious Strength apply to condition damage aswell), but the master tier has 2 out of 3 traits that are complete filler traits, Eternal Bond is dead weight (probably going for syngergy with Second Skin which is good, but the actual functionality of the trait is bland and doesn't promote fun gameplay), and the stance trait doesn't serve the purpose it was clearly designed for like you're pointing out.

Would I see myself running a different line if the merge mechanic still carried over? Definetely, which is something I don't feel like I'd say for other elite specs. I also think only having two traits that are build defining (Fresh Reinforcement and Leader of the Pack) is slightly lackluster. Doesn't need a rework, but I'd happily take a couple of changes to some of the traits. And the dagger, obviously.

Edit: just to make it clear, I'm not at all on board with soulbeast being "utterly useless".

Stop being hyperbolic it's still in a good spot.Its less oppressive and needs some skill to bait reflects but that's it.Learn and adapt.Boonbeast is also still in a good spot.Play it and you see.

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:The traitline's not bad

Mainhand dagger is the meta weapon for power and condition soulbeast (yes the 'condition weapon' deals more power damage than sword).New melee weapons in PvP have it really hard because greatsword is just everything you ever want. Burst, mobility, block/evade and CC. And most of the time you are better off with a ranged option than a second melee weapon.

But stance share could use a slightly larger radius like 480.

If you play the high damage markmanship build you can still make a semi unstoppable union with it. If you swap pet and enter beastmode fast enough, like at the same time you get the clarion bond buff for you. This gives your 2 next attacks unblockable, so you can break warriors block with unblockable knockback. Less good then unstopable union and more effort but still a nice trick

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Euthymias.7984 said:The traitline's not bad

Apparently you have to put out an asterix every time you critisize the dagger and make a remark on how it is the meta weapon in pve. Yes, I know it is.

But why is that? Is it because the dagger is particularly good, or because it replaces a weapon that was never designed for doing a lot of damage (sword, power), and another weapon that still has a hybrid identity crises (axe, condi)?

The latter.

Besides, the first thing I'd do with it is to make the leap more fluid. That above anything else is what I hate about the dagger.

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@"Euthymias.7984" said:The traitline's not bad

One more * is that dagger isn't better than sword. Both are actually meta. It just depends on how quick the fight is and how many phases there are.

I'd like to see the poison shifted around. Not to increase the total DPS but to make predator's cunning procs feel more deliberate instead of a worst regen on auto attack. Bonus poison stacks on sword 3 if you hit an enemies flank with it. Swap the poison and bleed stacks on dagger 2. Both would feel a bit more like decisive and deliberate heals. See change to guardian GS3 and GS trait from the most recent patch for a similar change.

With the increased duration on twice as vicious, I don't think CC on dagger 3 is "needed" as much but dagger 3 still feels lacking in utility. Double leap finisher and quickness actually make it ok but I think it's actually just the lack of good leap combo fields. Smoke scale is obviously good for stealth but I rarely see SB make use of the double leap for stealth. It's just not needed. They could make call lighting a lighting field for merged jacaranda. Then having a double leap finisher on dagger 3 would give a daze to dagger 3 on a 15 second CD. It would be easier to balance because it's balanced around a pet. Lighting wyvern F2 is a lighting field but its wonky with the aim so much harder to combo. It's also a CC skill in and of itself so leaping into a daze seems unnecessary. Healing spring is the only option for water field on soul beast. Merged jellyfish also has water and smoke but you can't use dagger underwater. Maybe add one more water field on a merged land pet ability. Or maybe reduce the base healing a bit on spiritual reprieve but give it a 3-5 second water field.

@"Lazze.9870" said:But why is that? Is it because the dagger is particularly good, or because it replaces a weapon that was never designed for doing a lot of damage (sword, power), and another weapon that still has a hybrid identity crises (axe, condi)?

It really only has an identity crisis because it was the only thing that could be paired with torch and split blade still dealt bleeds as a throw back to the days when conditions were just a thing you got as a bonus to regular damage (Maul giving bleeds instead of vuln etc)

As it stands now, axe is probably our most powerful pvp weapon for power builds. People complained about LB when I've killed far more people with "winter's bite + hunters call/one wolf pack" this cycle than I ever have with LB outside of wall/zerg sniping.

Hell, the only reason PvE has a weaker split blade is because the pvp/wvw version would make it better than sword which would be hilarious given the "melee vs ranged" rule they've tried to stick to.

The issue with sb line is that all master traits are situational and utterly useless if you do not build around them, there really needs to be 1 'general purpose' trait in that tier.

But outside of that sb has further issues as it tries to be core ranger+ due to how many different angles pet merging allows you to take in build crafting. This leaves the elite spec with an identity crises as it tries to be a power line, a condi line, and a boon/bunker line all at the same time, but there are only so many traits in one trait line so no singe build angle sb offers feels complete.This is perfectly pronounced by mh dagger which tries to be a power/condi hybrid weapon while off hand dagger is a pure condi weapon (both of these share the same trait which is purely condi oriented), at the same time mh dagger is the best thing rangers have that can proc the essence of speed trait, which is a part of the boon/bunker angle.

Idk how sb line can be ironed out to better support all the build angles it offers, but to me it seams the most painless way would be to delete eternal bond, move 1 of the master traits to its spot (while buffing it to match the power of the other 2 gm's) and then make a new master trait that is useful without you having to heavily build in to it.

@Substance E.4852 said:

@"Lazze.9870" said:But why is that? Is it because the dagger is particularly good, or because it replaces a weapon that was never designed for doing a lot of damage (sword, power), and another weapon that still has a hybrid identity crises (axe, condi)?

Except Anet went ahead and added more bleeds to it much later aswell, indicating that they wanted it to be the core ranger's choice of condi weapon. It's best in slot core mainhand condi weapon, while at the same being buffed to almost compete with the sword for power damage. The pve/pvp split on Splitblade is probably the only thing that keeps it behind. In PvP it has been used for both kinds of builds, but has most definetely been at its best as a power weapon (with chill and weakness being stupid strong).

It doesn't really matter. The point is that they're not letting the axe fullfill either roll "perfectly".... so when an elite spec mainhand dagger skewed towards condi beats it out on the benchmarks, it isn't necessarily that impressive. And I don't think beating out a relatively mediocre autoattack chain that the sword is used for - and the only thing it is being used for in that mode - is that impressive either.