What is your opinion about Jormag's gender? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What is your opinion about Jormag's gender?

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  • Jormag is a male.

    They have always even in the art books considered and used the word "He", The only elder dragon EVER to be considered close to female originally in concept was mordremoth. They were going to give mordremoth the "Hive mother" theme, where she was a female who used a very manipulative nature to convince the sylavri that they were wrong in their ways. For the love of all the spirits I have NO CLUE WHY THEY SCRAPED THAT, it was such an interesting idea for it to be a Her and serenade her "Children" back into their rightful place.

    Im hoping they don't necessarily shoe-horn it in for jormag, I honestly like the concept that it is one of the dragons who really doesn't have a gender. Considering perhaps it has multi-personalities based on the whispers and perhaps is both, it could be interesting. Perhaps male norn are easier to sway than females which is why its so rare for females to be corrupted, and to top it off survive because the males will kill them off. Wouldn't it be a kicker if we found out that the harbinger of its coming would be a descendant of jora? That would be such an ironic stab at the first female norn to stand against jormag's sway.

  • Tiviana.2650Tiviana.2650 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Jormag is a male.

    Male definitely to me, and that seems to be how it goes anymore, everyone and everything is w/e the person looking at it thinks. So it dont matter anymore up is down right is wrong the sky is pink with purple polka dots.

  • Aren't they all shrieking harpies?

  • I am still wondering...

    When Jormag is about to freeze me solid or eat me, the last thing on my mind is if Jormag sits or stands

  • Jormag is a male.

    I thought during the show I heard o e of the devs refer to Jormag as a him

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    He is gorn

  • MrRuin.9740MrRuin.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    kitten are wooden potatoes?

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭
    Jormag is a male.

    Just because it identifies as non-binary that doesn't mean it's intersex or anything like that. Perhaps the OP should have written: what is the sex of Jormag, referring to it's biology, rather than it's gender identity. I'm not sure how far surgery can modulate a voice from a woman/man's vocal cords and larynx to sound like the other gender, and Jormag's voice sounds biologically male to me.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    why does it matter?

    also neither

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Google "Lizards are all Female" and see what you find.
    As it turns out, many lizard species don't need a male to fertilize eggs.
    So dragons, being of a lizard-like species, could be asexual in reproduction.
    I've known some males with high-pitched voices and females who are baritones.

    "That's what" -- She

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I am still wondering...

    @Funky.4861 said:
    Just because it identifies as non-binary that doesn't mean it's intersex or anything like that. Perhaps the OP should have written: what is the sex of Jormag, referring to it's biology, rather than it's gender identity. I'm not sure how far surgery can modulate a voice from a woman/man's vocal cords and larynx to sound like the other gender, and Jormag's voice sounds biologically male to me.

    Doesn't need surgery. I know two, unrelated, women who are regularly mistaken for a man when talking on the phone (and occasionally in real life if the person responding isn't looking at them) because they have unusually deep and masculine sounding voices for women.

    @Dayra.7405 said:

    @videoboy.4162 said:
    I voted for female presenting, because it's been confirmed that Jormag's VA is a woman.

    So Siri & Co are female, too? ;)

    What's the gender of a robot building a robot? Or of a 3D-Printer printing a copy of itself?
    It's just the old-fashionedness of our language that let us classify everything as male/female.

    Many people do refer to them that way. There's a woman at work who always confuses me by talking about "her indoors", as in "I told her indoors to remind me, but I guess she didn't hear". I know she lives alone and it always takes me a minute to remember she means her Alexa.

    With non-speaking technology it seems to be more arbitrary whether English speakers call it male, female or neither (in some other languages most objects are assigned a gender) but I've heard that happen to. We have a mix of male and female laptops at work, but for some reason the printer is always referred to as male.

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.

    "I know that I'm born and I know that I'll die, the in-between is mine."

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I am still wondering...

    @Svennis.3852 said:
    The VA has been confirmed to be a woman.

    Really?? :o Curious! Link, please? :)

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭
    Jormag is a male.

    Even if the VA is a female I would say that Jormag is male...I am pretty sure that while most Norn refer to Jormag as "Dragon" I remenber seeing in game NPCs saying "him/he" when talking about Jormag, but that wouldnt be the first time that Anet goes against their own lore...in the end dont really matter, as long as Jormag ends up being a good ED as a villain...Zhaitan so far was the best to me, while his fight was really something else, i guess he had more time to developt the quest and motivations and the character itself. I really liked the interactions with the Rizen, even more the old priests, other dragon minions(Kralk, Mord, Primordious) are most of the time just mindless creatures.

  • Tiviana.2650Tiviana.2650 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Jormag is a male.

    To be clear she is a voice actor, actor they play many roles. I once played the part of lysander in a high school show, i am not male.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I am still wondering...

    Actually, I don't care one way or the other, so I'm not really wondering still...it's immaterial what gender the Elder Dragons are IMO.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Who cares? Jormag needs to die.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I am still wondering...

    I mean, it would be somewhat amusing if Jormag identified as female to distance itself from the Sons of Svanir... But I do miss the days when Elder Dragons were treated as forces of nature. Nowadays they're all talkitive and riddled with mental illness...

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think when your that powerful and unique calling its self Jormas is more then enofe for a label.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • EmperorMoth.2709EmperorMoth.2709 Member ✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @Gopaka.7839 said:
    Many players, including Wooden Potatoes, have this theory of Jormag being female because of the voice that was having in the new saga cinematic. What do you think... do you agree or disagree with this theory ? I would like to hear the Arena Net devs confirming on this one so we can stop analyzing every bit of a detail.
    Edit: Because of the many given opinions so far I would like to add. I'm not asking about what sex organs Jormag is having, because a lot of players are having mixed opinion on this subject and escalate and give quite the abstract thinking. I'm asking about what gender does Jormag represent in your opinion given the new saga cinematic? Is it giving you a male or a female characteristics.

    Friends, may I point you to a tweet from Tom on this topic? It appears you failed to include another option in your poll. I hope this helps everyone that was wondering! I know Jormag's gender may not be important to some people but for the lore buffs wondering how the ancestry of dragons work and how they approach things like gender I think this is an interesting find.

    Also in this quote, Tom says "we’re treating it as a “how do they identify?” thing rather than a physiological question. It all derives from thinking of EDs not as animals but as people" and I think that is super great.

    Edit: For those who are a bit confused about the question, "gender" can differ from biological sex characteristics. In fact, in many cases "gender" is an entirely different facet of someone's identity. I encourage those who are a bit puzzled on this issue to go through some googling because (as the scholars of the Priory would say) "Knowledge is the greatest treasure".

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019
    Jormag is a male.

    Wonder if people will get mad that there are only 2 options other than "I'm not sure". lololol
    I kinda like the somewhat androgynous tone, can't wait to fight the Frieza of GW2.

    Maybe it's like Legendary Pokemon?

    Also Blue is a stupid colour.

  • Gopaka.7839Gopaka.7839 Member ✭✭✭
    Jormag is a male.

    @EmperorMoth.2709 said:
    Edit: For those who are a bit confused about the question, "gender" can differ from biological sex characteristics. In fact, in many cases "gender" is an entirely different facet of someone's identity. I encourage those who are a bit puzzled on this issue to go through some googling because (as the scholars of the Priory would say) "Knowledge is the greatest treasure".

    This knowledge is not needed in my country because the people in my country care more about how they've been treated than getting offended of what verb you use on them. I know it looks quite crazy to think of a country that is not racist or sexist... and when you meet someone who does not care about racial or sexual stereotypes it looks to others who live in a country that is having this kind of issues a bit off... it look's a bit racist or sexist to them....for example: In my country we say...
    Does Jormag look blue to you ?
    -Yes.
    -Then he's a blue dragon and not purple.
    ^ Is that racist?
    Does Jormag sound male to you ?
    -Yes.
    -Then he uses male voice, thus having a male persona, thus not a female. Who cares about what he has between his legs. Also isn't more logical for him to have a female voice that can lure more males like the sirens calling the pirates to their doom? Hmm...
    ^ Is this sexist nowadays ? Because it wasn't before 5-10 years. Even kids can differentiate is a kid a boy or a girl from their haircut or cloths given by their parents so people don't wonder.

  • Gopaka.7839Gopaka.7839 Member ✭✭✭
    Jormag is a male.

    @videoboy.4162 said:
    I voted for female presenting, because it's been confirmed that Jormag's VA is a woman.

    If you are familiar with the anime franchise. Many male characters are voiced from a female VA. For example: Naruto is voiced by a female, Goku from Dragon Ball is voiced by a female, Dexter is voiced by a female, Pikachu also is voiced by a female and yes Pikachu is a male before you argue because of his tail being sharp and not round like the female pikachues, even Bart Simpson is voiced by a female VA. So yeah... it doesn't matter who voice him... what maters is how does he sound and look like at the end.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019
    Jormag is a male.

    Anet can make a character with a beard and masculine structure, with a male voice, and people in this game would still question if the character is a guy.

    It is literally voiced by a guy guys. Come on.

    @Gopaka.7839 said:

    @videoboy.4162 said:
    I voted for female presenting, because it's been confirmed that Jormag's VA is a woman.

    If you are familiar with the anime franchise. Many male characters are voiced from a female VA. For example: Naruto is voiced by a female, Goku from Dragon Ball is voiced by a female, Dexter is voiced by a female, Pikachu also is voiced by a female and yes Pikachu is a male before you argue because of his tail being sharp and not round like the female pikachues, even Bart Simpson is voiced by a female VA. So yeah... it doesn't matter who voice him... what maters is how does he sound and look like at the end.

    Also about this, the people who voiced those characters are chosen because their voice sounds like the characters they fit, but it's because they're trying to convey that illusion; women are used to voice little boys because adult male vocal chords can't emulate anything near the pitch that little boys use in their voices. The reason they don't use actual little boys is because it is illegal to employ kids for jobs in America.

    Also using the Japanese Goku voice to describe a male one is laughable at best, my initial reaction to hearing him the first time is that he sounds like a complete whimp. Pretty sure a bunch of other people thought so as well; literally not a single guy in Japan sounds like his Japanese counterpart.

    With Jormag, there is no question about it; they're not trying to make him sound like a woman at all, there is no illusion there, they're literally using the voice of a man. With your logic we may as well say Glint was probably a guy, and we know that's not true at all. Try not to be naive about it.

  • Batel.9206Batel.9206 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    It is literally voiced by a guy guys. Come on. [...] With Jormag, there is no question about it; they're not trying to make him sound like a woman at all, there is no illusion there, they're literally using the voice of a man. With your logic we may as well say Glint was probably a guy, and we know that's not true at all. Try not to be naive about it.

    Actually, Jormag is voiced by a woman. No idea who yet, though.

    fear not this night
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  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019
    Jormag is a male.

    @Batel.9206 said:

    @Aridon.8362 said:
    It is literally voiced by a guy guys. Come on. [...] With Jormag, there is no question about it; they're not trying to make him sound like a woman at all, there is no illusion there, they're literally using the voice of a man. With your logic we may as well say Glint was probably a guy, and we know that's not true at all. Try not to be naive about it.

    Actually, Jormag is voiced by a woman. No idea who yet, though.

    Then the producers tried so hard to unnecessarily make it sound like a guy. That's pretty dumb in my opinion. Mordremoth was a guy; it was pretty clear that he was too. Aurene is a female, we even refer to Aurene as she. Her brother was obviously a male. And somehow Anet decided to make a dragon whose gender is unknown? Then if it's voiced by a woman, even if by a manly woman, then that means Jormag is a female.

  • I'm not sure how much sense it makes to talk about the gender identity of an asocial creature like an elder dragon. Sure, Jormag can self-identify as non-binary, but who is it self-identifying to? Not to the Sons of Svanir - they refer to 'Dragon' as male. Perhaps to our player characters, later in the story, but it hasn't done that yet - and I'm not sure why it ever would.

    Apart from Kralkatorik - who seems to be male on account of being referred to as Aurene's grandfather - I think the other elder dragons have consistently been referred to not only in non-gendered terms, but as 'it' rather than 'they'. That's certainly what Trahearne does when talking about Zhaitan, and how the Wiki pages refer to them. The dialogue sometimes skirts around this issue grammatically, referring to them by name or as 'the dragon' instead.

    I agree that we can't draw any conclusions from the gender of the voice actor, especially since Jormag is pretty far from being human. There's no reason why a deep voice would indicate maleness in an elder dragon. (As I understand it, males having deep voices is primarily a human thing and isn't the case in many other animal species. That said, biology really isn't my area...)

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    In a way it should fit with their view that Jormag is Dragon and a Spirit of the Wild, since the other spirits are a representation of all animals of that species, not just the males or the females.

    The Spirits of the Wild are given genders by the norn though: Bear and Snow Leopard are female, Raven and Wolf are male (based on the dialogue from the Speakers of Hoelbrak). And, of course, the Sons of Svanir refer to Jormag as male - though it seems that, without any information, they'd make that assumption.

    @Aridon.8362 said:

    @Gopaka.7839 said:

    @videoboy.4162 said:
    I voted for female presenting, because it's been confirmed that Jormag's VA is a woman.

    If you are familiar with the anime franchise. Many male characters are voiced from a female VA. For example: Naruto is voiced by a female, Goku from Dragon Ball is voiced by a female, Dexter is voiced by a female, Pikachu also is voiced by a female and yes Pikachu is a male before you argue because of his tail being sharp and not round like the female pikachues, even Bart Simpson is voiced by a female VA. So yeah... it doesn't matter who voice him... what maters is how does he sound and look like at the end.

    Also about this, the people who voiced those characters are chosen because their voice sounds like the characters they fit, but it's because they're trying to convey that illusion; women are used to voice little boys because adult male vocal chords can't emulate anything near the pitch that little boys use in their voices. The reason they don't use actual little boys is because it is illegal to employ kids for jobs in America.

    That's commonly the reason, but there are examples that don't fit into that. For example, in Adventure Time, Lumpy Space Princess is female but is voiced by a man, and BMO is ungendered but is voiced by a woman. In both cases, the voices are chosen to fit the characters - and, like Jormag, both characters are non-human, so there's less reason for their voices to fit in with human biology.

    All of these posts about Jormag are making me realise that, when I see it written down, I always mispronounce it in my head (i.e. I pronounce the j the germanic way). For some reason I find it quite difficult to think of it as being pronounced the way it's pronounced in the game... (Of course, they mispronounce jotun, golem, krait... but I think we can assume that they're pronouncing 'Jormag' correctly, since it's their word.)

  • Jormag is a male.

    I say male, Voice doesn't really determine gender specially when using VA's. They select the voice that best fits and suits the character. IMO Jormag is coming off as having a bit of charisma and charm to sway those who listen to his side.

  • Jormag is a male.

    @videoboy.4162 said:
    I voted for female presenting, because it's been confirmed that Jormag's VA is a woman.

    In the original airings of DBZ Goku a male is voiced by a female. Can't really go based on the VA's gender.

  • Where is the "Never thought about it, don't care"option.

  • Adzekul.3104Adzekul.3104 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree with the "does it matter?" sentiment. I think it is very cool that Jormag is portrayed as androgenous. Think of the lore implications for the overtly mysogynistic Sons of Svanir, as one point. Think also (if you dare) about the reflections on our society and how we see and tolerate (or not) gender, gender definitions and gender roles. I think this portrayal is a good thing.

  • Look... there are times when the gender of a character matters. This, though? This is not one of those times.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I am still wondering...

    In most cases, gender doesn’t matter in a story unless the story somehow has to do with romance or reproduction. But considering jormag has an all male cult, I could see it being revealed that he is a she, or at least in our generalized terms for elder dragons, qualifies as a she - which would basically just be voice. And that sounded more male to me...

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  • I am still wondering...

    I put down "idunno.kitten" mostly because I'm not sure that the conventions of gender/sex apply so much to these dragons. They may be hermaphroditic, like the dinos in Jurassic Park for example (dang frogs). However, the fact that Kralkipoo is a "grandpappy" and that Aurene and Glint know that he is in fact a "he"... Welp, the jury is out on it for me, but the good news is that either way, they're gonna have to go through the mulcher ;)

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Rhiannon.1726Rhiannon.1726 Member ✭✭✭
    Jormag is a female.

    It doesn't really matter to me what Jormag is, but calling Jormag "it" feels weird. The German voice is female and therefore Jormag will be a "she" for me.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, where is the 'why does it matter' option?

    What I latched on to was the commander being addressed as champion. AFAIK only Aurene has used that title. So we could have a situation where all the dragons are linked somehow.

    As an aside, I know someone who once did an art presentation in a virtual world using a VR setup and a dragon avatar. One of the questions was 'what does it MEAN if you say your gender is dragon?' (google becoming dragon). What does gender mean to a dragon?

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • It's a diefic entity with no standard physiology as we know it. Some times it's better to let the unsaid remain so. Head cannon as you will and let others do the same. At most it doesn't even seem they have sexes as much as masculine or feminine leanings.

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭
    Jormag is a male.

    I think Anet missed the boat; if they wanted a non-binary ED it should have been mordy. Unless they re-write various historical notes and npc dialogue in an Orwellian Ministry of Truth manner, Jormy is male.
    gw547.jpg

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Donari.5237 said:
    I have no opinion, though that's not an option. Jormag's gender is flat-out irrelevant to me :) I hadn't even started to wonder until I saw this poll. I know ANet is pushing the story along so that the Elder Dragons are more than just forces of nature, but to me it still isn't something I think about in regards to them any more than I wonder if a hurricane or earthquake are male or female. Or a stampede of elephants -- there might be male and female elements inherent in the stampede, but the main concern is "is this going to trample important stuff?"

    They're definitely more than natural forces, since their alternate spheres are related to mortal psychology. Why would a living blizzard on a planet without sapient beings need the power of Persuasion?

    The second spheres seem a little vague, though. Aren't fury and persuasion both part of mind? "Madness" seemed better and more precise for Mordremoth.

    The pattern is also a little off. Three of the four have a sphere of mental/spiritual trauma or corruption. Madness, Seduction, Fury. Bubbles is probably related to Dread or Terror. Primordus is anyone's guess, though I think despair would be an interesting choice that would explain nihilistic destruction. As the firstborn, pride might be another good one -- it doesn't relate to corrupting mortals, but that actually works, with Primordus mostly just making his own minions.

    But then there's Jormag, breaking the pattern. I guess Shadow could be treated as a mental thing -- ignorance, blindness, secrets, etc. But it's a stretch.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019
    Jormag is a male.

    Some people in here ask “why does it matter”. But it could have major implications for the narrative that could be pretty neat. I don’t think the speculation is a bad topic to explore, especially when you consider Jormag’s main followers.

    As for the whole non-binary thing, I mean... At least akin to genderless legendary Pokémon by analogy, I think an immortal dragon who probably can’t/doesn’t conceive through conventional means, and is likely something more akin to focused energy via sheer will power; doesn’t fall into either camp for how we as simple mortals define sex and/or gender.

    Identity aside, doesn’t really matter what label you would put to.. let’s take mordemoth; who is literally a jungle:
    If you believe genders are binary, well what is a jungle supposed to be?
    If you believe it’s a social construct, well again what is a jungle supposed to be?

    Lol

  • As long as I won't be banned for calling Jormag whatever I want, be it by accident or on purpose (Hey Borderlands 3!) I'm fine with whatever canon they decide to settle for (Muh diversity)

  • Logos.5603Logos.5603 Member ✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    The OP question assumes gender essentialism, but we know that this is a myth (at least since Simone De Beauvoir wrote on the topic): gender is a social construction. So the question should be read in a sociological way. This allows for two answers. First, we ask the dragons (although they seem to lack any robust sense of society so it is likely that they lack these identity markers). Or second, we rephrase the question. We investigate who is asking the question (e.g., the people of Tyria, the Asuran researcher, etc., etc), what are the gender roles or determinants of gender identity in that society or group (keeping in mind that there might be disagreements or struggle within these groups as to what gender is), and then we give a sociological response.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't actually care. It's a game. Why do we need to get so hung up on this these days?

  • Jormag is a male.

    My answer is based on the OP asking what the preview made us think. That gave me the impression of Jormag being male. I truly don't care either way. I'm just looking forward to the epic battle that I hope is in our future.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • The term gender is meaningless with today's "state of mind" usage. I would rather know if dragons are sexual(male, female, or hermaphroditic) or asexual(not likely but perhaps something fantastical like creating their own progeny through magic).

  • You’re missing the “Doesn’t matter to me” option. 😏

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019
    I am still wondering...

    I don't care of its gender as long as it's a fine villain.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • @Zaraki.5784 said:
    I don't care of its gender as long as it's a fine villain

    So, do you mean fine, as in a great, worthy opponent, or fine, as in "that is one good-looking dragon"?

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    Jormag is non-binary.

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